Poll
Question:
Should Martin jol stay or go?
Option 1: Stay
votes: 45
Option 2: Go
votes: 77
Quick poll to get general feelings about Martin jols job safety
I can't believe he is still with us... i tuned in to BBC and expected to see hie was the first casualty of the new season. what are the board waiting for? The evidence oof today was quite sufficient, the team formation is wrong, the balance is wrong, we play square and backwards... he is frankly a waste of space and i hate the ideas of the inevitable relegation struggle and having to 'discuss' with his apologists that he needs a bit more time. I saw enough after hios first six games two years ago to know he was a disaster waiting to happen and nothing has happened to make me change my mind. bringing duff on for ruiz was ridiculous, we needed a either a proper defender, or a proper offensive player, duff was neither... i like him but jyust the worng man on this occasion.
Oh and bryan ruiz, i cannot imagine one good pass being enough to justify his place. he was totally useless today, worse than usual, he lost possesion so often, he runs slowly, gets knocked off the ball all the time, a waste of wages. i am sorry he is injured, i wish him speedy recovery and hope he departs for an alternate club in december, not good enough, and that is jol's fault. to spend so much on such a sub standard player, to keep playing him, it is a disaster.
bent injured already? the goalkeeper injured already? the venazuelan only just starting a game? Am i missing something?
we are going to play championship football next season, get used to it boys, this is night follows day stuff, unless we make the necesary change.
if you are an apologist for jol or ruiz please try to be objective when you stick up for them, because i see no material redeeming features in either!
Rafael Wojiek
A fairly quick Pole over a long distance
Expectations can make you very unhappy - Jol on hearing the booing
Berbatov signalled he wanted to go off with a tight hamstring so Jol didn't make that decision.
With six minutes injury time we were tired - Jol
We can't get better than Jol, this team does need time we can only judge fulham 10-15 games into the season
Quote from: JackyFulham90 on September 15, 2013, 12:21:27 AM
We can't get better than Jol, this team does need time we can only judge fulham 10-15 games into the season
QPR waited 11 games last season and they are playing games at Millwall and Doncaster this season.
Quote from: Denver Fulham on September 15, 2013, 12:36:11 AM
Quote from: JackyFulham90 on September 15, 2013, 12:21:27 AM
We can't get better than Jol, this team does need time we can only judge fulham 10-15 games into the season
QPR waited 11 games last season and they are playing games at Millwall and Doncaster this season.
+1
Well Stekelenburg , Taarabt , Bent & Berbatov came here to play for Jol, he attracts players, without him we will not attract big names that everyone seems to want
Interesting...
Quote from: JackyFulham90 on September 15, 2013, 12:21:27 AM
We can't get better than Jol, this team does need time we can only judge fulham 10-15 games into the season
Yes we can. Guus Hiddink. He is currently resting up in France recharging his batteries while he waits "for his next project". If Fulham doesnt represent a challenging project I dont know what does. If some obscure Russian team can tempt him I dont see why we cant entice him with a decent sized paycheck.
Hiddink will not go to Fulham, realistically we can never challenge the top 6, we are doing well in the premier league as a solid club if we finish top 10 that's a great season for us
Is this not the 53rd such poll since last Tuesday? Why must we have another?
"If we would have been bottom of the league I would have understood it," Jol said. "But we are 12th in the league now ad we were a bit unfortunate.
"We should have had six points, so that is a bit disappointing that people boo.
"I always say to the players as well, it is very hard to fight expectations and expectations can make you very unhappy.
"It is the same with women as well. If you expect too much of them, you could wake up in the morning with a big shock.
"If you don't expect a lot of things... I think we are 12th in the league so for me it is not a big problem.
"It is a bit disappointing that there are people that probably think we should be (doing a lot better)."
Really Mr Jol? Did you really say that? I dont know what made me laugh more...the comment about women or the last sentence.
Can
Quote from: Denver Fulham on September 15, 2013, 12:36:11 AM
Quote from: JackyFulham90 on September 15, 2013, 12:21:27 AM
We can't get better than Jol, this team does need time we can only judge fulham 10-15 games into the season
QPR waited 11 games last season and they are playing games at Millwall and Doncaster this season.
Can't get better than Jol? Why?
Quote from: JackyFulham90 on September 15, 2013, 12:21:27 AM
We can't get better than Jol, this team does need time we can only judge fulham 10-15 games into the season
Rubbish
Quote from: the nutflush on September 15, 2013, 07:52:15 AM
"If we would have been bottom of the league I would have understood it," Jol said. "But we are 12th in the league now ad we were a bit unfortunate.
"We should have had six points, so that is a bit disappointing that people boo.
"I always say to the players as well, it is very hard to fight expectations and expectations can make you very unhappy.
"It is the same with women as well. If you expect too much of them, you could wake up in the morning with a big shock.
"If you don't expect a lot of things... I think we are 12th in the league so for me it is not a big problem.
"It is a bit disappointing that there are people that probably think we should be (doing a lot better)."
Really Mr Jol? Did you really say that? I dont know what made me laugh more...the comment about women or the last sentence.
Applies to men as we'll ;-)
Jol's post match comments are ridiculous trying to deflect from the awful job he is doing.
Is he to stupid to realise that we have been playing this badly for a year now?
Perhaps if you decided to push for a second against a poor team at home rather then drop deep and concede yet another late goal the natives mite not be so restless
My favourite thing about jol is his u turns - firstly he comes into the club and says he wishes to lower the age of the squad and buys senderos, karagounis, berba, bent etc. and then lets frei go! Then after the first game of the season this year he says post match were looking at top ten this year and then a week later says we're always gonna be relegation candidates - the man is clueless he can't even decide how bad we are and he is meant to be watching them every day
Quote from: the nutflush on September 15, 2013, 07:52:15 AM
"If we would have been bottom of the league I would have understood it," Jol said. "But we are 12th in the league now ad we were a bit unfortunate.
"We should have had six points, so that is a bit disappointing that people boo.
"I always say to the players as well, it is very hard to fight expectations and expectations can make you very unhappy.
"It is the same with women as well. If you expect too much of them, you could wake up in the morning with a big shock.
"If you don't expect a lot of things... I think we are 12th in the league so for me it is not a big problem.
"It is a bit disappointing that there are people that probably think we should be (doing a lot better)."
Really Mr Jol? Did you really say that? I dont know what made me laugh more...the comment about women or the last sentence.
More post match Jollocks! I reckon any woman that woke up next to Jol would have the bigger shock....
Thanks for posting that as I can't even bring myself to listen to his post match interviews anymore...
Quote from: JackyFulham90 on September 15, 2013, 12:21:27 AM
We can't get better than Jol, this team does need time we can only judge fulham 10-15 games into the season
Rubbish, my Granny could do better than him, he had has had two full seasons to be judged on, this season is a replay of last, fed up with this give him time, he has had enough, get rid of him now before we are 10 points adrift at the bottom.
Alistair Mackintosh should get the boot for appointing Martin Jol and Mark Hughes.
I do not hear booing in H7 Hammersmith. I do hear the occasional pro Jol chant though.
I do not hear 'Jol out' down the pub after the game.
I think the 'Jol out' movement is stronger on this board than elsewhere.
I appreciate that things are not right on the pitch completely and I appreciate everyone has the right to moan or not.
I have always said 10 games will see who is doing well in the league and who is not, 10 games gives a indication of the season to a certain extent, although nothing is written as they say!
Games played so far,
Sunderland lucky win 3pts
Arsenal top 4 and I don't have an expectation of any points from the top 4 teams 0pts
Newcastle probably unlucky not to get a point 0pts although still not playing well!
West Brom Should have had 3 pts Some better play but we still only get a 1pt.
So I would expect after these 4 games 5pts and we are on 4pts, I totally agree that the team need to play better and I would agree that the sub's used or not used are down to the manager and that is the influence he has on the game or not.
I'm on the fence with Jol and hope he can prove himself over the next 4-6 games and the team gel and improve to give a better confident style of football.
But for the time being I want him stay and make this work and I think he needs time, well no more the 10 games anyway.
My two penny's worth anyway,
cheers SuffolkWhite
Quote from: Putney on September 15, 2013, 10:19:01 AM
Alistair Mackintosh should get the boot for appointing Martin Jol and Mark Hughes.
He was quoted on transfer deadline day as saying that they are expecting big things from Mesca this season. Its a bit hard to get "big things" out of a player when he isn't even on the subs bench. And what the hell is going on with Dejagah? Injury my ass.
Stay for now because I want to see whether things get better when Amorebieta and Boateng get in the side. But I'm not expecting them to and I'm most likely going to want him to go in a few months. I do wonder how he was able to get so much work for top sides, he seems to be well out of his depth.
Such a huge disappointment as well because I was very excited by what he said when he came here and he usually seems to say the right thing, plus he's a likeable guy.
But he's completely misusing Ruiz and that irritates me, he's letting Berbatov do whatever the hell he wants and subsequently wasting his talent too, these are our two most talented players. We're playing some of the worst football in the league right now and it's unacceptable because we have so many talented attacking players.
I feel the board should be thinking about who should take over. I want someone like Pochettino or Laudrup; someone who will get us playing attacking possession football and I believe there are those coaches out there.
We don't need many more signings, maybe a left back and if possible creative centre mid so I don't want too much change of players.
Right now I am pretty indifferent, I'm not fussed if he is fired as we haven't been that good for a long time now. However, we've still got plenty of time to turn that around and I dislike managerial changes so I voted Jol to stay. I don't think you could sack Jol of yesterdays performance as I thought we looked fairly decent and its clear he hasn't lost the dressing room yet. Would I be sad if he got sacked though? Not really.
092.gif My biggest concern is that we are so slow going forward. If you have the ball, why would you as a player, think I know, let me pass back from the half way line to the keeper? It is such negative football. I could understand it against a Top 4 team, as you want to keep possession, but against a poor side why play so defensively? Our home form used to be very good, now we are so defensive and negative.
We are also slow at the back. 3 or 4 times yesterday West Brom played a ball over the top of our back 4 and only poor finishing, a good save from Stockdale and a clumsy tackle by Senderos (Clear Penalty missed), saved us from conceding goals against a side who had not scored all season.
No urgency, and a lack of pace when attacking makes us a very predictable side to play against.
Also, no plan b when plan a is not working. We are lacking in ideas. Where are the creative players?
Oh I know, they are injured or tired from playing Internationals! Funny how this only effects Fulham players and not other sides in the Premier League?
Maybe we should give it until the end of the season before anyone complains......
Quote from: Putney on September 15, 2013, 10:19:01 AM
Alistair Mackintosh should get the boot for appointing Martin Jol and Mark Hughes.
Yes get rid of Mackintosh who is judged on results which has seen us have a 7th, 12th, 8th, 9th and 12th place finishes, a Europa League final and built up our academy to the best its ever been. All of this will include a stadium expansion and we've been breaking even/profitable for the last few years. Should he be sacked for what was viewed as decent managerial appointment at the time? No.
Quote from: Alternative on September 15, 2013, 10:25:21 AM
I do not hear booing in H7 Hammersmith. I do hear the occasional pro Jol chant though.
I do not hear 'Jol out' down the pub after the game.
I think the 'Jol out' movement is stronger on this board than elsewhere.
Don't kid yourself, all around me people were slagging him off and some booing came from the JH stand as well
"We should have six points". No Martin, we should have seven. Trying to see out the games against Newcastle and West Brom by dropping too deep has cost us dear. Three shots on target in two games against poor opposition is quite frankly embarrassing. Even league one sides would create more chances.He's got to go.
Quote from: Denver Fulham on September 15, 2013, 12:36:11 AM
Quote from: JackyFulham90 on September 15, 2013, 12:21:27 AM
We can't get better than Jol, this team does need time we can only judge fulham 10-15 games into the season
QPR waited 11 games last season and they are playing games at Millwall and Doncaster
Even thats too good for those disease infested anal marks.
In answer to the thread question, so far it's been a big anti-climax. Expected much better.
Quote from: the nutflush on September 15, 2013, 07:52:15 AM
"It is the same with women as well. If you expect too much of them, you could wake up in the morning with a big shock."
Is this really the sort of response we expect from a Premier League Manager, OUR PL Manager?
At best, crass. At worst, sexist and completely inappropriate.
Perormances have not been great yesterday was better, before the season I predicted 5 from the 1st 4 games we have 4 so not all bad, we will lose to Chelsea next week but it's key we pick up points in the games after that are all winnable
IMO he has done some good, been unlucky losing key players but has made some glaring mistakes and as a team we are going backwards.
Sometimes, with the best will in the world things just don't work out, even the injury count is far higher than previous managers.
Maybe its his manner, his body language, whatever, but it ain't working, so I say its time to move on.
I like to think I embrace the idea of 'Thinking Football' and the likes of Jol would suit our team, but he his no deep thinker when it comes to preparing a team and I am starting to dislike his words, and general demeanor.
I've just voted that he should go although I'm still just about clinging to the fence. I do think that managers should be given a chance and I try to avoid knee-jerk reactions but frankly the writing was on the wall after the terrible end to last season and things don't look like they are getting much better despite some reasonable signings, particularly Scott Parker. I agree that we probably have quite a decent squad on paper, if rather ageing, and we also lack pace with one or two exceptions who are often not in the team eg Dejagah. I keep hoping for better things but I can't get away from the feeling that Jol is not the right manager for Fulham. He claims to want to play more attractive football than his predecessors but all he has achieved is to make us less organised and solid, meaning we concede more goals, and we certainly don't appear to be scoring more or playing in a more enterprising way.
I don't think the team is set up right - I don't think there is a place for Ruiz if Berbatov is in the team, and possibly not at all. I think his ratio of good to bad in most games is about 30-70 and that is probably being kind. I am sorry to hear he might have a serious injury (I missed the game yesterday) but at least it solves that problem. I also wonder who is running the team on the pitch - it appears to be Berbatov rather than Jol and he quickly gets disillusioned if things start to go wrong.
Finally, Jol's comment about the team getting tired is really not good enough. I wonder whether the squad is as fit as it should be to compete properly in the PL. We certainly were under Hodgson and probably Hughes (however much we hate MH for what he said when he left). I hope I am proved wrong but I fear this will be our last season in the PL unless the Board acts pretty quickly - and that means after 10 games if there is no improvement.
Quote from: Jack Fulham on September 15, 2013, 11:37:05 AM
Yes get rid of Mackintosh who is judged on results which has seen us have a 7th, 12th, 8th, 9th and 12th place finishes, a Europa League final and built up our academy to the best its ever been. All of this will include a stadium expansion and we've been breaking even/profitable for the last few years. Should he be sacked for what was viewed as decent managerial appointment at the time? No.
You missed the point of my post. Mackintosh has done a good job at Fulham but it's so simple to just lay the blame on the manager. We were incredibly unlucky yesterday, 1-0 and people would be happy. We played well, as we did against Arsenal but people are always going to grumble if we don't win home games, regardless of how well we played.
I'm not particularly bothered with how we play in the league (provided we don't go down). Without drastic changes to the club then we're never going to progress and regularly challenge for a Europa League place so as a club we should be focusing on the cups more. Jol has been in charge for a few years now and if we're not making any progress in cup competitions then what's the point of keeping him in charge?
We're not going forwards, nor are we going backwards so why persist?
I've also voted 'go' though, ever the optimist, I think it's possible Jol will turn it round. I'd agree with those that say no decision will or should be made by the board before 10 games in. He certainly talks the talk and seems able to attract some decent players to Fulham, but he doesn't seem able to follow it through and it's a bit of a mystery as to why, given his previous record.
Yesterday was an improved performance but the same old failings eventually cost us the win - trying to defend a 1-0 lead for the last half-hour when we should have continued to press for another goal. Obviously most of us, me included, would have been happy if we'd held out for the win, but I don't think it would have silenced the criticism because of the style of play. And I don't agree that we were incredibly unlucky - two of the offside goals were very clearly offside and professional Premiership players should have the discipline to stay onside - it's not as if we were peppering the West Brom goal with shots and their goalie played a blinder
Watching the other games today and seeing teams like southampton attack with pace and purpose is so upsetting. We are so poor to watch, negative and depressing.
I really really hope we can start actually trying to win games again. Under Jol we will never do this.
Useless. Kacanikilic destroyed them yesterday so why not throw Taarabt on for the useless Ruiz to help him? Oh no, let's just sit deeper to give WBA a chance.
I don't think I'm going to another game until that p**** is out of a job.
*due to fickleness and my appetite for a good day out with the boys the above may not be strictly true
Quote from: Putney on September 15, 2013, 04:53:06 PM
Quote from: Jack Fulham on September 15, 2013, 11:37:05 AM
Yes get rid of Mackintosh who is judged on results which has seen us have a 7th, 12th, 8th, 9th and 12th place finishes, a Europa League final and built up our academy to the best its ever been. All of this will include a stadium expansion and we've been breaking even/profitable for the last few years. Should he be sacked for what was viewed as decent managerial appointment at the time? No.
You missed the point of my post. Mackintosh has done a good job at Fulham but it's so simple to just lay the blame on the manager. We were incredibly unlucky yesterday, 1-0 and people would be happy. We played well, as we did against Arsenal but people are always going to grumble if we don't win home games, regardless of how well we played.
I'm not particularly bothered with how we play in the league (provided we don't go down). Without drastic changes to the club then we're never going to progress and regularly challenge for a Europa League place so as a club we should be focusing on the cups more. Jol has been in charge for a few years now and if we're not making any progress in cup competitions then what's the point of keeping him in charge?
We're not going forwards, nor are we going backwards so why persist?
Actually, we ARE going backwards.
I have to agree that we seem to have gone backwards over the last few years but this is a new season and we have signed a few good players. I have no reason to think that we will be relegation candidates this time around. Look at the clubs around us and in all honesty there are only five or six that can be regarded as below us by a distance. Look at how many players Sunderland have signed and ask how they are doing!! I think my only criticism of Jol is that he tinkers with the side too much. I believe that we should be playing with a settled team every week we can.
I see no good reason for getting rid of Jol at this time as a new manager is unlikely to be able to change thing by much. The other thing is all the good managers are in work at the moment without exception. Jol will help us finish the same or above last years total, which is success for us
I still maintain that my ideal situation would be for Jol to change his system and for better performances to start streaming in.. even if the results don't come straight away.
I just can't stand how our tactics under Jol clearly aren't working but aren't changed.
At this moment it doesn't seem likely that Jol will change so I think we should change Jol.. I fail to believe that there is no other manager in the world who could realistically join us and could do a job here.
The general standard of the squad has improved under Jol but the performances have certainly not - I feel another manager could get more out of this group of players.
That's just how I feel about it, like I said my number 1 choice would be for a Jol revolution starting next week.
'Expectations can make you very unhappy'
Any hope we had he would change his negative style seems to have been answered by this stupid comment. Only ambition is not to lose and hope not to be relegated. If you have such low ambition you end up in trouble.
A good squad but oh what a shame we have such a scared man running the team.
:bump: Want to rethink your vote now?
Quote from: epsomraver on September 29, 2013, 01:26:37 PM
:bump: Want to rethink your vote now?
Yes, I do, after yesterday. Cardiff played very well but still it was a must win game. The best Jol can do this season is 16-17th place which is not enough for our good old mid-table Fulham.
How does one change their vote?
Time for a new poll I think.