This guy helped save our club, had ambition and money to do what most fans couldn't have dreamt (before my time as a fan to be fair) and spent a lot to give us some of the glory years this club has ever experienced. I do not hold him responsible for much, but his fingerprints are on this downfall.
A billionaire who has loved this club(I really believe he did). And cared so much about this club but couldn't leave us in a strong position, with a solid squad of all ages and successful manager who was improving results rather than avalancheing. And he did this because he wanted to maximise profits? All I read is MAF didnt spend coz he wanted to sell. But he left us with an ageing squad, clueless manager and declining results. Was this fly in his ointment (an ointment sea of money) really going to affect an ageing man who couldn't spend the rest of his money if he tried? I can't help but think in hinds sight he will regret not leaving us in a better state.
Let me regress because we wouldn't be suffering this fate without him. We could had ceased to be a team at all and all those on this forum would be posting s*** on some other site. We could be in the conference on pitches where the fans stand on more grass than the players, we could be at loftus road, or in debt or leasing a ground with no home (spam) and we are not thanks to him. BUT if an owner leaves a company after so many years and it falls through straight after either he was amazing in all ways or he left if stuck together with bluetac and let the next man fix all the problems.
Not giving him much of the blame but to expect a novice buyer (to football ownership. The real football btw) to come in and rely on his staff :players, manager, CEO etc... And it fail so quickly I find it hard to blame khan at all compared to MAF a bit.
Ultimately a 90 year old billionaire put squeezing 25-30m out pre sale to Khan above safeguarding the short to medium term future of the club he claimed to love.
His money so his prerogative? Yes.
Disappointing in the extreme? Absolutely.
Consistent with loving something? Not really.
Cause to sing his name each weekend when we're odds on for relegation? Not on your f.cking nelly.
We have a very very large paddle in the shape I believe the 4th richest owner in the league.
The issue is he knows nothing about running a football club and took advice from "the experts" ala Ali mac and Jol. We are where we are because at the start of the season the decision was made to stick with the.cheaply assembled squad of players nearing the end of their careers and not invest in what we needed. Summed up by.paying the same amount of money for a falling apart Scott parker as hull paid for huddlestone....
I worked at Harrods when AF brought it and over the next few years senior people came and were dumped very quickly if they dare suggest an alternative. Not much happened unless it added real value and much like Fulham he declared his love of the store and his wish to be buried in the little dome at the top. He sold it and turned a good profit at the right time. He did the same with the club. I've no complaints, can't think of anyone else who would have had pockets deep enough to take us to the Premiership and a European final.
As much as Khan is accused of knowing little about football neither did AF. Khan is a younger and richer business man. I think on balance we've landed on our feet. This season has been mostly forgettable. However we have plans and permission for a new stand. We have a successful youth team with good players who will make an impact next season wherever we're playing.
To some extent, yes. For a premier league team we have been chronically underfunded in recent years, but this has been disguised by a handful of (debatably successful) £10m players.
Critically, I think the Demps/Dembele money needed to be re-invested, but wasn't, and that left us short on quality..
HOWEVER, Mo was a superb owner and we should all be eternally grateful for everything we achieved under him, and for the generosity he showed. The club needed serious restructuring and investment to reach profitability. Mo had sunk so much into the club, and it just wasn't going to pay-off with a 25k stadium. His generosity and achievements should be forgotten.
For me Mo could walk on water across the Thames to get to the ground. He did so much for the club I do not believe he could predict the mess we are in now. As for the paddle, it is an extremely good one, however, how well it will be used remains to be seen.
He did oversee in his last year a 90% wages to income ratio which is far too high for us.
Lets be honest when people talk about 'investment' you saying that the owner should just write a cheque for £20M and say spend it. That money would be from them and not from within the clubs financial model.
The fees for D&D were used on transfers (both cost & free) and wages, so it has been reinvested back into the team. In the right places? Now that's a different question.
Quote from: MJG on May 01, 2014, 08:35:06 AM
He did oversee in his last year a 90% wages to income ratio which is far too high for us.
Was it really 90:10?? I had no idea it was that high..
Quote from: Craven Mad on May 01, 2014, 08:50:46 AM
Quote from: MJG on May 01, 2014, 08:35:06 AM
He did oversee in his last year a 90% wages to income ratio which is far too high for us.
Was it really 90:10?? I had no idea it was that high..
Actually to turnover:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/19mg6b.jpg)
Here is the wages list:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2euob46.jpg)
I seem to remember a load of twaddle about MAF saying that even when he passed away the club will still be run by the Fayed family & would be a dynasty that would last for ever.
I still believe that the whole MAF era was a money making scheme. He bought it, invested, had a toy for a few years , sold it, got his money back plus some.
Will the Khan era be any different?
He left us Jol...nuff said
It was a good 15 years for the club and therefore for us.
He sold to a man richer than him who appears to have bought for the right reasons.
Currently we're suffering a setback - the future, who knows, but I don't see it as being MAF's fault.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on May 01, 2014, 09:04:26 AM
It was a good 15 years for the club and therefore for us.
He sold to a man richer than him who appears to have bought for the right reasons.
Currently we're suffering a setback - the future, who knows, but I don't see it as being MAF's fault.
0001.jpeg
Perhaps it should be restated that without MAF we would have been nowhere near the Prem, let alone remaining there for so many years.
If he had any ulterior motives in buying Fulham, I think these were more to do with gaining status and acceptability in Britain, than any financial interests, and we should be glad that he was motivated to take over Fulham for whatever reasons.
And, rather than selling us down the river - maybe to some dodgy Far East cartel, he sold us to a wealthy, respectable businessman -what he probably thought were good hands, and which may still prove to be so.
Thanks, MJG. Very interesting.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on May 01, 2014, 09:04:26 AM
It was a good 15 years for the club and therefore for us.
He sold to a man richer than him who appears to have bought for the right reasons.
Currently we're suffering a setback - the future, who knows, but I don't see it as being MAF's fault.
perfectly put.
Nobody is to blame for anything - Except Mark Hughes left and warned about lack of ambition. We laughed and called Hughes names. But Al was thinking of selling the club, talked of sustainability and instead of investing in a better player or two, filled the team with free transfers and out of contract players. So it doesn't take a genius to admit that that last few years our team has been very poor because of the age and quality.
There wouldn't be a Fulham in the Prem if it wasn't for AL. For what ever reason he decided to sell the club and the new owner was conned on sustainability. Now more money will have to be spent on the team unless the owner is happy with a team in decline.
Dunno about Berbatov being free or even cheap.
Quote from: Logicalman on May 01, 2014, 12:50:10 PM
Dunno about Berbatov being free or even cheap.
Ruiz was the only player who cost silly money since Hughes left. Clearly all players are paid big money. But unless the team has investment we end up with what we have. If that is all we want or can afford then we will never play in the Prem again.
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 01, 2014, 12:45:23 PM
filled the team with free transfers and out of contract players.
Hardly.....From Summer 2010
Spent Money onStekelenburg
Riether
Kasami
Berbatov
Richardson
Dejagah
Pogrebnyak
Ruiz
Riise
Gecov
dembele
Halliche
Salcido
FreeDiarra
Boateng
Amorebieta
Karagounis
Rodallega
Petric
Grygera
Sa
Sidwell
Senderos
Quote from: MJG on May 01, 2014, 12:57:34 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 01, 2014, 12:45:23 PM
filled the team with free transfers and out of contract players.
Hardly.....From Summer 2010
Spent Money on
Stekelenburg
Riether
Kasami
Berbatov
Richardson
Dejagah
Pogrebnyak
Ruiz
Riise
Gecov
dembele
Halliche
Salcido
Free
Diarra
Boateng
Amorebieta
Karagounis
Rodallega
Petric
Pogrenyak
Grygera
Sa
Sidwell
Senderos
That list of players, only one cost 10 million plus, the rest we could have saved the small fees on the old players and put them together to make a few better signings. We all know where our problems were for years and trying to say because Petric and the like cost money we were spending is frankly missing the point about investment in the team.
Where would we be without MAF? I'll say it again........Where would we be without MAF?
I can't describe how baffled I get whenever I see anyone question the man. It makes me cringe and feel horrible.
Too many of the players we've acquired have failed badly but even if transfer fees weren't involved you can be sure that the Bosmans got large signing on fees and lucrative contracts. Most would have gone to the highest bidders.
We've mostly bought badly and/or been unable to use players effectively. That's a management failure and questions need to be asked as to who chose the targets.
We could have spent more obviously but the key problem is the duffness of the players we brought in. Every one of the summer acquisitions has been woeful but how predictable was that and how much because of what they found at the training ground.
A lazy disorganised manager will find that he has players who reflect that.
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 01, 2014, 01:02:08 PM
Quote from: MJG on May 01, 2014, 12:57:34 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 01, 2014, 12:45:23 PM
filled the team with free transfers and out of contract players.
Hardly.....From Summer 2010
Spent Money on
Stekelenburg
Riether
Kasami
Berbatov
Richardson
Dejagah
Pogrebnyak
Ruiz
Riise
Gecov
dembele
Halliche
Salcido
Free
Diarra
Boateng
Amorebieta
Karagounis
Rodallega
Petric
Pogrenyak
Grygera
Sa
Sidwell
Senderos
That list of players, only one cost 10 million plus, the rest we could have saved the small fees on the old players and put them together to make a few better signings. We all know where our problems were for years and trying to say because Petric and the like cost money we were spending is frankly missing the point about investment in the team.
Its not so much the amount spent because look at Norwich, they bought a £12M striker who's done sod all. Its how you spend the budget you have. Last summer from day one was a disaster.
Wrong players targeted and signed. A limited budget spent on the wrong type of players.
I'm just responding to your claim that the team was made up of free's. And frees are not that anyway and also there is nothing wrong with getting those type of players at times. Schwarzer..some would say was the best GK we ever had..free.
Diarra..how much has he cost in fees in the past
Sidwell..free again.
We invested but in the wrong places. Look at the wages totally out of control last season (and this) given our turnover.
He took dividends out whilst running down the squad. then got his money back on the sale. As I said absolutely his call but why he would put so much at risk that he had built when he already has 2 billion and is a grand old age for 20 or 30m baffles me.
There's no benefacting going on, just a bloke who had a load of fun, plenty of lauding, and a bit of glory and who then spent 2 years totally focussed in squeezing every penny out with seemingly zero concern over what that might do.
Really amazed how so many sane fans can't see this and only focus on the largely very good earlier years of his reign.
Quote from: WayneKerrins on May 02, 2014, 12:40:31 AM
He took dividends out whilst running down the squad. then got his money back on the sale. As I said absolutely his call but why he would put so much at risk that he had built when he already has 2 billion and is a grand old age for 20 or 30m baffles me.
There's no benefacting going on, just a bloke who had a load of fun, plenty of lauding, and a bit of glory and who then spent 2 years totally focussed in squeezing every penny out with seemingly zero concern over what that might do.
Really amazed how so many sane fans can't see this and only focus on the largely very good earlier years of his reign.
I agree that for the last couple of seasons he seemed to lose the once obvious keen interest he had on building Fulham up. It did coincide with Roy leaving us, perhaps he felt he no longer wanted to play?
In any case, he did us a favor in removing our 'debt' to the tune of 187 Million, ensuring we did not fall foul of any possible financial rules, and then sold us, all of which is his right, and for the benefactor he was for over a decade beforehand, I can not hold any grudge towards the man. God bless him.
Quote from: Logicalman on May 02, 2014, 04:14:28 AM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on May 02, 2014, 12:40:31 AM
He took dividends out whilst running down the squad. then got his money back on the sale. As I said absolutely his call but why he would put so much at risk that he had built when he already has 2 billion and is a grand old age for 20 or 30m baffles me.
There's no benefacting going on, just a bloke who had a load of fun, plenty of lauding, and a bit of glory and who then spent 2 years totally focussed in squeezing every penny out with seemingly zero concern over what that might do.
Really amazed how so many sane fans can't see this and only focus on the largely very good earlier years of his reign.
I agree that for the last couple of seasons he seemed to lose the once obvious keen interest he had on building Fulham up. It did coincide with Roy leaving us, perhaps he felt he no longer wanted to play?
In any case, he did us a favor in removing our 'debt' to the tune of 187 Million, ensuring we did not fall foul of any possible financial rules, and then sold us, all of which is his right, and for the benefactor he was for over a decade beforehand, I can not hold any grudge towards the man. God bless him.
Mate this is exactly the type of thinking that I struggle with. The debt equity conversion was a standard technique when preparing us for sale. The wasn't an ounce of altruism in there. It simplified the transaction and meant khan was paying for the positive net assets of the club plus goodwill (which can be capitalized and amortized over time).
The is no escaping the conclusion that in the last 2 years all mo wanted to to sell the club for the highest price. He did the bare minimum to stay in the prem and clearly didn't give a flying f.ck about running down the squad whilst he squeezed out dividends from player sales. If he needed 20m fair enough but he was already worth c 2 billion at the age of 90.
This is a fact based analysis and to me it absolutely tarnishes a lot of his legacy.
Quote from: WayneKerrins on May 02, 2014, 08:35:18 AM
Quote from: Logicalman on May 02, 2014, 04:14:28 AM
Quote from: WayneKerrins on May 02, 2014, 12:40:31 AM
He took dividends out whilst running down the squad. then got his money back on the sale. As I said absolutely his call but why he would put so much at risk that he had built when he already has 2 billion and is a grand old age for 20 or 30m baffles me.
There's no benefacting going on, just a bloke who had a load of fun, plenty of lauding, and a bit of glory and who then spent 2 years totally focussed in squeezing every penny out with seemingly zero concern over what that might do.
Really amazed how so many sane fans can't see this and only focus on the largely very good earlier years of his reign.
I agree that for the last couple of seasons he seemed to lose the once obvious keen interest he had on building Fulham up. It did coincide with Roy leaving us, perhaps he felt he no longer wanted to play?
In any case, he did us a favor in removing our 'debt' to the tune of 187 Million, ensuring we did not fall foul of any possible financial rules, and then sold us, all of which is his right, and for the benefactor he was for over a decade beforehand, I can not hold any grudge towards the man. God bless him.
Mate this is exactly the type of thinking that I struggle with. The debt equity conversion was a standard technique when preparing us for sale. The wasn't an ounce of altruism in there. It simplified the transaction and meant khan was paying for the positive net assets of the club plus goodwill (which can be capitalized and amortized over time).
The is no escaping the conclusion that in the last 2 years all mo wanted to to sell the club for the highest price. He did the bare minimum to stay in the prem and clearly didn't give a flying f.ck about running down the squad whilst he squeezed out dividends from player sales. If he needed 20m fair enough but he was already worth c 2 billion at the age of 90.
This is a fact based analysis and to me it absolutely tarnishes a lot of his legacy.
I think the simplest thing to consider is "are we better now, after Mo, than we were before?".
Mo took us from the edge of existence, into a team competing in the Premiership. Yes, we may now be relegated to the Championship, but that still puts us in a significantly better position that we were before MAF. I think that everyone can see your argument that Mo had been lining up a sale for a couple of seasons, but disagree that this - in any way - tarnishes his legacy. Mo built an asset, funded it to the tune of hundreds of millions, then sold it; can you blame him?
Mo MADE the modern Fulham. Why on earth would I hold anything against him?
Maybe it's unrealistic to expect the club's owners to be benefactors pouring their own money into the club with the only motive being pure love.
The motive doesn't have to be money - it might be prestige or enjoyment - but unless the benefactor is a life long fan who happened to get super rich the motives will always be selfish ones.
What should matter to us is the good (or bad) that they do and for me MAF is massively in credit.
when he bought the club as an earlier poster did say he said the club would stay in his family for ever, however he also said it was the love his son had for the club that persuaded him, that son was Dodi. So maybe in the end he decided the best for him was to sell and retire> There is not much I would ever blame MAF for, he came in when we needed him too, he put money into the club and saved us. Under his ownership we went from almost conference to the premier league, I know I for one thought we were never going to see the championship (back then division 2) ever again. I hope he enjoys his retirement and I thank him for the good times he gave us.
The club kept banging on about sustainability but I don't get why the club saw sustainability as 'Buy a bunch of old guys and loans' as opposed to 'Buy some players with potential in their early-20's then sell them once they succeed' ala Dembele.
Guys because in my view the obvious desire to squeeze the pips out of the club in pursuit of that extra 20m tarnishes Fayeds legacy it doesn't destroy it.
Of course he was hugely beneficial for us and I'm as grateful for that as the next man.
However for someone who claimed to love the club he was evidently prepared to put adding 1% to his wealth above its security.
I find that incongruent and very disappointing and not something that can be overlooked.
Maybe he wanted Fulham getting in the Prem, and staying in the Prem, as his achievement only.
If you love something that is a limited expression of it: very limited.
Well said RaySmith - lets face it NO BRIT wants to own a football club anymore !!!
As Louis XV said 'Apres-moi, le déluge!'
Quote from: Tonywa on May 05, 2014, 11:37:35 AM
As Louis XV said 'Apres-moi, le déluge!'
King Louis invented the luge? Cool!