For me, Tuesday 9 July 2013 was the fateful day when I knew we were in trouble - the day the lack of leadership and direction was signalled by the re-signing of Karagounis, and I knew that Mark you have no ambition Hughes was proved right.
RENE !
Plus Hangeland being made Captain ... disaster since then
When we lost 2-0 to QPR. I had never seen such a poor performance from any professional team. Since then we have seen so many I have lost count. Including today.
3-0.
Not firing MJ and getting Pulis in when Stoke released him.
the day al. fayed sold .and left macintosh in charge
Quote from: JDH101 on May 03, 2014, 04:28:46 PM
When we lost 2-0 to QPR. I had never seen such a poor performance from any professional team. Since then we have seen so many I have lost count. Including today.
3-0.
Yep it was losing 2-4 to a relegated Reading that did it for me, had MAF not been selling up I doubt Jol would have remained in his post. It seems that everything has aligned against us this season, and all to frequently we've played the worst football I've seen in years.
There must be wholesale changes over the summer, otherwise we'll go the same way as Wolves.
The second shad said I will implement the transfer policy that's already in place. Dumbest thing I've ever heard and no doubt the dumbest thing he has ever done
When the double d's were sold/chased out to spurs
Not investing properly for the last three years. But the Swansea win last year kept Jol in a job. Had we lost that he'd have gone, no doubts.
The day Mark Hughes walked out. Not because he was a great manager but if he could see we were going nowhere it meant we had no intention of progressing.
I said so at the time and this has been a long painful slip into the gloom.
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When Jol proved almost immediately that he had no clue by managing to upset a hitherto united and well organised squad. Amazing that he was kept on so long.
Pity about Rene. IF he'd had the confidence to be his own man and set the team up as he did in the first few games, we might have been all right, but getting in Wilkins and Curbishley told its own story.
Likewise Felix, if appointed earlier, would have kept us up, for there is surely no way, had he been appointed instead of Rene, we'd have ended January without a competent and fit striker. The poor teams who survive need either an excellent defence, as we had under Roy, or someone who can bang in enough goals, as Berbs. did last year. This year we have had a poor defence and no one capable of scoring nearly often enough.
The American now knows that he shouldn't have dabbled in something about which he is essentially clueless. The best hope (short of selling the club back to MAF at a knockdown price) is that his pride has been so hurt he'll do everything possible to achieve a quick return. But the recent history of his US club isn't promising, and even if he has been stung by the turn of events here it is as yet unclear whether he has the capability to put the arrangements in place to achieve an early return. Money is necessary but far from sufficient - capability is also needed and whether he has that remains to be seen.
When Mark Hughes left and correctly highlighted the lack of ambition.
Quote from: Logicalman on May 03, 2014, 04:34:09 PM
Not firing MJ and getting Pulis in when Stoke released him.
And on the Facebook page every man and his dog disrespected Pulis when we had the chance to go for him. I knew Mark Hughes was right but was so pleased to get Martin Jol I couldn't see the wood for the trees.
Quote from: Oakeshott on May 03, 2014, 04:50:26 PM
The American now knows that he shouldn't have dabbled in something about which he is essentially clueless.
Al Fayed had absolutely no clue about football at the start either! Khan kept a man who had been involved in the day to day runnings of several football teams to cover this, and Ali Mac has failed - he should have made Khan aware just how much was needed earlier than January.
Losing at home to Sunderland in November 2012 was the beginning of the end
We all saw the train wreck of an aging team coming and management never got ahead of it. Losing Murphy, Dempsey and Dembele and not finding proper replacements finally did us in.
After the Europa Cup Final. We needed to rebuild but every window since has been a disaster.
Hangeland captain, Hughes was right, MAF recouping all his investment, worst NFL franchise owner & Ali Mac, combined, reliant on three ******* teams, crap investment, that away game at QPR
Quote from: rusty shackleford on May 03, 2014, 05:06:27 PM
Losing at home to Sunderland in November 2012 was the beginning of the end
I got hammered by a certain poster on here for voicing that opinion that day itself
That performance set the Jol bar of ambition
Rene's sacking. I still think he could have turned it around even that late. The performances from Utd and Liverpool would have kept us up, but hitting the reset button just as it was turning around was the worst possible decision, regardless which manager we got in.
Quote from: hesedmedia on May 03, 2014, 05:21:53 PM
Rene's sacking. I still think he could have turned it around even that late. The performances from Utd and Liverpool would have kept us up, but hitting the reset button just as it was turning around was the worst possible decision, regardless which manager we got in.
Agreed. Magath's team selections have been bizarre.
The first signs for me were the handling of Dempsey, Murphy, and some of our more senior players by Jol and club management. I have even mentioned relegation fears back then seeing that pattern. I will have to find my response to a thread back then. People sometimes just don't understand how serious these little signs are. Those were signs of a club being ripped apart from the inside and imploding.
This club will require extensive rebuilding. It will be a tough season in the championship next season. This club has gotten so soft that in many respects the championship is even tougher than the premier league and we will feel it.
Good luck to everyone here and our club!
For me it was the day we sold Moussa Dembele to Tottenham, I've been pissed off ever since that day, although others also make very valid points, especially about the lack of investment.
I agree with the OP. The resigning of Karagounis (although I would have started him today) signaled to me the team was lost.
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 03, 2014, 04:49:25 PM
The day Mark Hughes walked out. Not because he was a great manager but if he could see we were going nowhere it meant we had no intention of progressing.
I said so at the time and this has been a long painful slip into the gloom.
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Mark Hughes probably saw that Mackintosh was blocking all decent transfer request because Mackintos is probably paid money to save money!!!
I could see us in league 1 if Mackintos is still running the club from day to day!!!
The writing was on the wall when Parker and Bent were brought in. Pretty obvious Al Fayed had been looking to his departure for a few years, and wasn't going to make big splashes. Jol should have had the stones to just play younger guys instead of bringing in those two.
Suspected when the Coffin arrived on Monday 6th June 2011
• Former Spurs manager succeeds Mark Hughes
• Dutchman agrees two-year contract at Craven Cottage
Accepted when the nails came on 19th August 2013
Fulham Football Club is delighted to announce the signing of a 32-year-old midfielder
on a three-year deal, for an undisclosed fee which will see the player at the Club until at least the summer of 2016.
In regard to the latter and it is the only bright spot, the little s$it will be down the drain pipe quicker than you can say Charlton
For me the final straw was René's sacking.
Obviously lots had already gone on, cancers were already spread in the club and he was facing a huge task.
But I still believe he was up to it and the team was improving.
Middle of last season the cracks were there to see. I think MAF could see it and decided to get out without spending anymore money. New owner left with ali macintosser who should now carry the can and go
Winning away at Swansea at the end of the season. Kept Jol in his job and while it had been going wrong already that was his lifeline.
The moment Berbatov arrived for me.
Quote from: fulhamben on May 03, 2014, 04:40:38 PM
The second shad said I will implement the transfer policy that's already in place. Dumbest thing I've ever heard and no doubt the dumbest thing he has ever done
Agree completely. I was really hoping for a statement of intent when Kahn came in and £20-30m spent on 4 or 5 players that would have ensured we were good enough to stay up.
Some time in late 2012, in one of his video interviews on the club site, Jol (apologising again for yet another string of poor performances) expressed his opinion that we missed Dempsey's goals and that we didn't have a replacement who could guarantee 15 goals a season 'like Darren Bent'. At that point I concluded that he had no clue. It isn't about buying in players whose past stats are good and assuming that means future goals if you put them all together. If the team around them can't deliver defensive solidity or midfield control, individual players' reputations mean nothing. From other comments he made I realised that was why he bought Berbatov. Berba was good for 30+ goals at Man Utd, so he'd do it for us. Except suddenly he didn't. Then he actually signed Bent and I knew that the writing was on the wall. If you buy players on a flawed view of individual reputation instead of building a team this is how it goes.
I honestly felt the worst when we sacked Muelensteen. Fulham played FANTASTIC in some games; granted we were average or poor in some others, but I felt we had started to get some consistency when the rug was pulled underneath him.
How many other clubs have had THREE managers in one season, and it did embarrass new owner Khan who bowed to the woeful advice of Ali Mack!!
The day Khan took over was for me the end of the season and possibly of Fulham FC.
Replacing Dembele and Dempsey with Karagounis and Richardson.
When Jol was not got rid of at the end of last season.
I think there are three points to highlight:
- Mark Hughes walking out. We probably should have been more alarmed. He's been proven correct now
- The Sunderland game last season when Hangeland was sent-off and we blew up. That seemed to really knock us off course.
- Losing to Reading at home last season 4-2. That should have been enough to earn Jol the sack.
keeping jol, ruiz and berba was the signal this season would be a disaster, quickly followed by getting an inexperieiced manager and then not keeping him.
But make no mistake, IMO, Jol was the number one problem with this season. I do not think it is down to purchasing power because the money we did spent could have been just as effectively flushed down the toilet.
I believed firmly we still had a chance of staying up until the Hull disaster. That's when the wheels came of the Rene wagon and the boards persistence with him in January led to a baffingly pathetic month on and off the field that saw him chase off 4 players whose quality and dedication (admittedly, not all of them had both) could have made a real difference in the hands of a competent manager like Magath. Instead, Rene plunged the team into the relegation zone and the little investment made to replace the missing pieces, with the exception of Heitinga, was totally ineffectual.
Couple points: Khan was probably told we were basically mid-table, which was kind of a lie. And losing Schwarzer.
Going into the end of last season getting just a few points on about 12 games. You could tell our form would continue unless something was done and it wasn't.
Quote from: hesedmedia on May 03, 2014, 05:21:53 PM
Rene's sacking. I still think he could have turned it around even that late. The performances from Utd and Liverpool would have kept us up, but hitting the reset button just as it was turning around was the worst possible decision, regardless which manager we got in.
I think Rene might have done it. He got us playing pretty well against L'pool and Utd, then poof - he was gone and anyone he brought it was loaned out. Players like Tunicliffe only looked good under him because he knew how to get those certain players playing well...
Quote from: john dempsey on May 03, 2014, 04:35:58 PM
the day al. fayed sold .and left macintosh in charge
Shouldn't that be "The day Al-Fayed sold and Khan took charge"?
It's more complicated than just the change of ownership. We were very poor at the end of last season.
This obsession with Mackintosh is weird.
Unless we do find out that Mackintosh is in charge then it should be "The day Khan put an accountant in charge of the footballing side of the club".
Quote from: fulhamben on May 03, 2014, 04:40:38 PM
The second shad said I will implement the transfer policy that's already in place. Dumbest thing I've ever heard and no doubt the dumbest thing he has ever done
Yes, a key moment.
Quote from: grandad on May 03, 2014, 05:14:46 PM
After the Europa Cup Final. We needed to rebuild but every window since has been a disaster.
This is the one. This was our high point and we needed a little investment to consolidate our place in the top half of the table for a few seasons.
With some investment we might have even kept Hodgson.
All other (sensible) points also show that same lack of foresight or are a consequence.
We have never put a string of decent performances together since losing to Sunderland in November 2012.
Issues from then on in:
1. Holding on to Jol too long.
2. Not holding on to Rene for long enough.
3. That Curbishley and Wilkins debacle.
4. Not refreshing an ageing squad.
5. Hangeland, bless him, is not a leader on the field.
6. No creativity, fight and spirit in the team.
Quote from: Fulham Joe on May 03, 2014, 05:48:46 PM
For me it was the day we sold Moussa Dembele to Tottenham, I've been pissed off ever since that day, although others also make very valid points, especially about the lack of investment.
For me it was the day we sold Mullery to Tottenham.
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on May 04, 2014, 10:35:41 PM
Quote from: grandad on May 03, 2014, 05:14:46 PM
After the Europa Cup Final. We needed to rebuild but every window since has been a disaster.
This is the one. This was our high point and we needed a little investment to consolidate our place in the top half of the table for a few seasons.
With some investment we might have even kept Hodgson.
All other (sensible) points also show that same lack of foresight or are a consequence.
I think this was when MAF decided would be good tme to sell. Our stock must have been at it's highest after the Europa League final. I think it just took him longer to get sorted out that he imagined
Quote from: Berserker on May 04, 2014, 10:44:41 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on May 04, 2014, 10:35:41 PM
Quote from: grandad on May 03, 2014, 05:14:46 PM
After the Europa Cup Final. We needed to rebuild but every window since has been a disaster.
This is the one. This was our high point and we needed a little investment to consolidate our place in the top half of the table for a few seasons.
With some investment we might have even kept Hodgson.
All other (sensible) points also show that same lack of foresight or are a consequence.
I think this was when MAF decided would be good tme to sell. Our stock must have been at it's highest after the Europa League final. I think it just took him longer to get sorted out that he imagined
Good point.
For me it was when they loaned Volzy to Leicester. I'd just ordered my #2 Volz LG shirt, and Hodgson shipped him out. I'm still shattered.
Yes, we had 3 top 10 finishes and got to a European final, and Volz never played in the top flight again, but DAMMIT I ORDERED THE SHIRT AND THEN HE LEFT. It's been all downhill ever since.
:dft004:
The story the history books will tell is - from when MAF took over Fulham had constant success, getting into the Prem and staying there for over 13 years, finishing just below mid table at the end of his last season as owner, and then he sold the club and we were relegated.
And it's true that the upset of the transition, when a lot of investment was already needed in the playing squad, seems to have done for us, with no- one to take firm decisions when needed - although many had already forecast our doom, unless there was a lot of investment.
Well, there was investment, but too late, and too panicked, perhaps - and obviously crucial errors seem to have been made in the running of the club. But were the seeds of our demise already sown before Khan took over? as many think- too late for him to do much about it - and not even aware of it.
Watching the past few seasons just proves the point of how tough it is to stay in the prem day in a day out. The decisions that are made on a daily basis spells prem survival or relegation.
We just lost our way after hodgson left. We kind of began to lose our identity. We were a hard working mid table club punching above our weight with reasonable level of investments. Getting to the Europa League final sort of slowly and quickly changed who we thought we were becoming. We had the structure, level of investment, and management personnel who knew how to run an established mid table club but we were trying to be more without the right people, structure, and knowledge in place. The consequences, we came tumbling down.
Losing at home to Sunderland last year was the turning point for me. Hangeland getting sent off for a foul on possibly the dirtiest player in the PL. He's not been a great leader on the pitch although he seems a really good bloke and is still a decent player.
Having said that the real problem has been lack of spending on younger players and Jol's tactics and training.
Hangeland and Hughes allowing themselves to age. Our defence was based around them. Never had any sort of decent replacements. We then have an overly defensive central midfield. In short, lack of proper investment last summer. For me, I became very nervous during the post Costa Rica friendlies. I now wish Sunderland had battered us in the first game as it might have encouraged a couple of last second panic buys.
Quote from: Berserker on May 04, 2014, 10:44:41 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on May 04, 2014, 10:35:41 PM
Quote from: grandad on May 03, 2014, 05:14:46 PM
After the Europa Cup Final. We needed to rebuild but every window since has been a disaster.
This is the one. This was our high point and we needed a little investment to consolidate our place in the top half of the table for a few seasons.
With some investment we might have even kept Hodgson.
All other (sensible) points also show that same lack of foresight or are a consequence.
I think this was when MAF decided would be good tme to sell. Our stock must have been at it's highest after the Europa League final. I think it just took him longer to get sorted out that he imagined
With the benefit of hindsight, this for me. I never saw it at the time though and got annoyed with Sir Roy leaving and then got distracted by Sparky walking out. It looks as though he was right. Unfortunately "ambition" was the wrong word to use and we all interpreted his intentions incorrectly
Personally.
That things were not right. From when we drew at home to Odense.
That we were in trouble. When Jol was not sacked at the end of last season
That it was an end of an era and at a crossroads. When MAF sold to Khan
That we were going down. When the ball squirmed under Stek at WBA in the 87th minute
Quote from: RaySmith on May 05, 2014, 05:28:53 AM
The story the history books will tell is - from when MAF took over Fulham had constant success, getting into the Prem and staying there for over 13 years, finishing just below mid table at the end of his last season as owner, and then he sold the club and we were relegated.
And it's true that the upset of the transition, when a lot of investment was already needed in the playing squad, seems to have done for us, with no- one to take firm decisions when needed - although many had already forecast our doom, unless there was a lot of investment.
Well, there was investment, but too late, and too panicked, perhaps - and obviously crucial errors seem to have been made in the running of the club. But were the seeds of our demise already sown before Khan took over? as many think- too late for him to do much about it - and not even aware of it.
I think that it could still have been turned around in January making all the other mistakes just missed opportunities.
Who knows, for example, what would have happened if we had kept Rene and Mitroglu or a fit alternative forward had played in all games?
Quote from: HatterDon on May 05, 2014, 03:37:33 AM
For me it was when they loaned Volzy to Leicester. I'd just ordered my #2 Volz LG shirt, and Hodgson shipped him out. I'm still shattered.
Yes, we had 3 top 10 finishes and got to a European final, and Volz never played in the top flight again, but DAMMIT I ORDERED THE SHIRT AND THEN HE LEFT. It's been all downhill ever since.
:dft004:
That was a good day..................... I got his folding push bike he didn't need it Tup North
Quote from: KCat on May 05, 2014, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on May 05, 2014, 03:37:33 AM
For me it was when they loaned Volzy to Leicester. I'd just ordered my #2 Volz LG shirt, and Hodgson shipped him out. I'm still shattered.
Yes, we had 3 top 10 finishes and got to a European final, and Volz never played in the top flight again, but DAMMIT I ORDERED THE SHIRT AND THEN HE LEFT. It's been all downhill ever since.
:dft004:
That was a good day..................... I got his folding push bike he didn't need it Tup North
You did? Well, that's a bit better. :021: Still the day when it all began to unravel, though. :012:
The predicted reply is supposed to be : No !!! I got the folding push bike