I still can't help feeling that we are going through a massive upheaval at present yet do have the makings of a strong team, and it will take more than 3 matches for it all to start to click...
I was wrong about Jol, I stuck with him through to the bitter end, so am a bit worried that I am going to do the same thing with Felix.
All I want to see is us to start winning again :012:
I think he has until Tuesday evening.
The Jol syndrome is a serious concern but maybe misplaced as he had been in situ for a couple of seasons and should have been disposed of at the end of 2012-13. Dumping Magath after all of last season's chaos is a different issue. Can we afford yet more instability after this? However, how much faith do you have in Magath? If I were convinced that he is making the best of what is available then I would rest easier but is he? Dan Burn is a proven Championship player but he doesn't even make the bench. What on earth has Hyndman done to warrant exclusion - even from the bench? Mitroglou appears willing to play. McCormack has proved ineffectual thus far.
I think he needs a few more games but am very concerned about why he is not playing to our strengths.
I am willing to give him couple of more matches, but I want to see that the experiments are pretty much done and we are heading towards more stable line-ups and formations from now on. And of course, this wish also includes that we should also perform constantly better and better. Yesterday was a step-back on all these fronts. We have tough games ahead and we may not win them (hopefully some at least). But if he can show us more stability and constant improvements on the performance as a result in the next few matches, I'd be happy to give him more time.
if we are to replace him it has to be done before the window is closed, new guy will want to make at least one signing. For me he should go now, but if we do not win at Derby then surely he will then
He needs at least 10 matches to pull this team together. I am prepared to wait.
Burt, he has to go and the sooner the better 096.gig
Nah,keep him for 10 games until we are rock bottom, the season will be all but wasted.
Bring in a new manager just after the transfer window closes so he can say he didnt pick the
squad etc. Try and stay up and hope the new manager whoever he was is still around and
hope for the best for next season. Sounds familiar.
Oh well keep hoping for the best but think Felix is a bit of a nutter myself.
Quote from: RidgeRider on August 21, 2014, 01:45:03 PM
He needs at least 10 matches to pull this team together. I am prepared to wait.
...and if our record before that game is 0-0-9, would 1 point (or even 3) be enough to save him. But where/when do you pull the plug before that point?
I was of a similar mind to you before last night but the performance and team selection have turned my view around.
Hand on head, do you honestly have confidence in him to turn this around. I don't.
and I also dont think the squad is strong enough. We badly need 3-4 more experienced, tough and hardened first teamers.
Last night severely dented my optimism but it would be madness to ditch him now. I love that he cleared out all the crap from last season. I'm not sorry to see any of them go except Stockdale. I love that he's giving the youngsters a crack. But the chopping and changing worries me. The only manager we've had in recent years who has had any success did so by building from the back. It seems obvious so I don't understand why Jol and Magath didn't do it.
I've long been skeptical of Felix especially long term but he has to be given more time. I do think we have to a realistic outlook on this season though, especially with the way Felix is approaching the first few games.
Quote from: Snibbo on August 21, 2014, 01:52:57 PM
Last night severely dented my optimism but it would be madness to ditch him now. I love that he cleared out all the crap from last season. I'm not sorry to see any of them go except Stockdale. I love that he's giving the youngsters a crack. But the chopping and changing worries me. The only manager we've had in recent years who has had any success did so by building from the back. It seems obvious so I don't understand why Jol and Magath didn't do it.
This is exactly what concerns me. Having that approach to the lineup along with throwing in the kids is just not a logical combination to me.
I agree with the OP. A different league, a whole new team - six of whom are just kids. To some extent this was to be expected.
Keep Felix on, but we need points and quickly.
The club needs to announce a signing of a quality experienced player ASAP, as in right now and make a statement that 2 more are on their way. If so I still have faith in Magath. A win on the weeks would help too, but these signings, IMO GK, CM, DM are needed.
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on August 21, 2014, 01:49:26 PM
Hand on head, do you honestly have confidence in him to turn this around. I don't.
and I also dont think the squad is strong enough. We badly need 3-4 more experienced, tough and hardened first teamers.
At this moment, I don't have confidense in anyone, from the manager on up, that has anything to do with the footballing side of our club..........if I'm being honest as you requested.
We have been sold on the notion that we are striving to be promoted in our first season of trying. The signing of McCormack aside, has anything been
done that would make anyone believe that that is actually what we are trying to do?
This is a team that, with time to gel, can become a very good team at this level. However, I don't believe that more than one or two of these yougsters would be close to being ready for the PL next season. How much playing time did Southampton's players have at this level or League One or with some other first team before they were promoted? Most had a helluva lot more experience than ours would have.
Promotion this season would mean a massive outlay of cash to make us "sustainable" next season. I just don't believe we have any intention on spending what it would take to keep us up under that circumstance.
It appears to me, right now, that we are planning on being in this league for at least this season and next.
079.gif 079.gif 079.gif 079.gif 079.gifBefore last night I thought so, today maybe, after Tuesday and no result, then deffo.
If as in a previous post, the one with the fan and Mitroglu, who states, ask the manager why I am not in the team? Then that should be our next question to Felix, Why is he not PLAYING?????????????? Until he goes or pushed he's still our boy!!
My anger doesn't just stem from this year. It goes all the way to last year when players like Holtby and Burn were played out of position and the team lineups were just as strange then. I never wanted this guy in the first place. His comments he makes are utterly stupid. "I only play players who are fit." Really then why is McCormack playing? The guy is just a walking contradiction with everything he says. It's really annoying.
I agree with you Burt. I would like Felix to get 2 months before he is sacked if at all. I tend to want to stay with managers because of the disruption it causes so I could be wrong... haha
Its all fine and dandy to sack Magath, but knowing our board we will pick the wrong guy and be in a position to lose more games.
I like that Felix has played the kids. If we lose and play kids it is better than the crap we watched last year.
Is it the case that Magath picks his team, at least in part, based on performances in training sessions. In essence, that is not a bad policy as it empncourages everyone in the squad to give it everything, every day. Once players get used to this "revolutionary" idea, that you have to work hard, every minute of every day to earn your great big fat salary and to earn a place in the starting line up things will improve. Alternatively, Magath may be as mad as the proverbial milliner, in which case we are toast!
I share your view, Burt.
A lot is being made to the changes in personnel, but the fact is that six players (Joronen, Hoogland, Stafylidis, Bodurov, Burgess and Parker) have played every minute of all three games. Add McCormack (who is clearly a first-choice pick if fit) to this group and Magath does appear to be forming the nucleus of his 'best' XI.
In my mind, the first crucial question is: Are the players that Magath has relied upon most of all the best we have?
Is Hoogland better than Voser? Is Stafylidis better than Kavanagh? Will Burgess be better over the course of the season than either Hutchinson or Burn?
This is, of course, highly subjective and, when results are poor, whatever the manager does, it will be open to criticism.
The second crucial question is: How good a team do we have compared to other clubs in this league?
If Magath sees that it is not good enough to, at least, challenge for a play-off spot, I would hope that he would endeavour to bring in players who will improve the standard.
It is too early to conclude that he has failed on either count. He may do so; and the early signs are not reassuring. Nevertheless, with only three games played and the transfer/loan window still open, our situation is not irretrievable and, for this reason, I think the Club stands to lose more than it can gain by removing him now.
I would like to stick with Felix for a few months before anything is decided. We were pretty woeful last night and anybody new would certainly unsettle things again. However the constant team changes are worrying.
Quote from: horse1031 on August 21, 2014, 02:34:50 PM
I agree with you Burt. I would like Felix to get 2 months before he is sacked if at all. I tend to want to stay with managers because of the disruption it causes so I could be wrong... haha
Its all fine and dandy to sack Magath, but knowing our board we will pick the wrong guy and be in a position to lose more games.
I like that Felix has played the kids. If we lose and play kids it is better than the crap we watched last year.
it is not the young players that is at issue. we all seem to agree that is needed and applaud him for that. What is wrong is the chopping and changing every game (he did it last season too) and that the team is hopelessly unbalanced and lightweight and that he let a perfectly decent goalkeeper leabve to replace him with one that isn't filling anybody with much confidence. The signings are very uninspiring... and the two experienced players we lept are not ones i wanted to keep.
He has already made far too many errors for me, better to make a change now but i do agree the board's track record of finding replacements is hopeless... The first action is replace the board, then the manager, all by 1.30pm tomorrow!
He has transformed a squad from a load of 30 plus players with little technique or care, into a squad full of young, exciting players.
It has been from one extreme to the other; and that will naturally take time to settle; we probably could have kept the squad from last year and got promoted, but where's the long term gain?
We did play really well against Ipswich and Millwall, but unfortunately we came away with two losses; against Wolves, we played badly, and lost. I saw enough promise in the first two performances to tell me that this team is a sleeping giant; once it clicks, it could really be quite special. But then last night, we looked poor which has maybe made others forget the quality shown in the earlier two.
Losing three in a row is disappointing, very disappointing, even more so that we probably should have got 4 points from the first two games but the result didn't follow the performances.
I am not quite Felix Magath out, but I am frustrated in the chances being made on a consistent basis. How will players settle, if they're not getting a chance to settle? I do understand the reasoning of how he wants to change the team if it isn't winning games, but there's too much of it. When we finished 7th in 2008-09, it was essentially the same team every week, the only change being Dempsey or Gera from the left; the rest was more of less the same, with Etuhu coming in when Bullard left in January - everybody knew their role; maybe that's partially down to Roy's training ground monotony. We've used 20 players in 3 games, and only 4 have started everyone (including the goalkeeper).
I also don't like his reluctance to sign players in the 24-26 age barrier that has experience in the Championship; it would certainly boost the squad rather than players like Mark Fotheringham. Jack Collison is available on a free; are you to tell me that Jack Collison wouldn't provide more than Fozzy?
There are details that are niggling me, but the whole process has been, in general, satisfying. He should get the opportunity until late September-mid October to get things working - if not, then it's a case of the season being directed the right way and possibly salvaging a play off spot. There are examples of teams starting poorly and going up as title winners, so we have got time to get things settled.
Face facts - we ain't going back up this season. We have lacked any stability for 2 years. We have a whole new squad. We have lots of players who have never played together. I THINK HAS 10 GAMES (7 MORE).
Last night made us all wonder if there is any plan to the madness. Change for changes sake. Going backwards in performance and watching talented youngsters just look confused. Bringing on subs while the rest of the team haven't a clue where they are supposed to be playing. In other words all the warnings that were highlighted by Felix Critics turns out to be bang on the money.
I was all for backing him and did so. But we are looking a shambles and what ever message he is trying to put to his players isn't working. Had we played without changing the back 4, brought in the players we have said we need, a dm and a target player, then we would have been cruising this league.
We would still be moaning but really, too many changes every game looks to be breaking everybody's confidence. An awful shame because Fulham supporters have had enough of watching the club be mismanaged. We have the players with the need of two or three additions. Magath seems unable to make a team out of them and worse seems to be breaking them.
No Burt. I agree.
I was always willing to give him 8-10 games especially as we have a tough start to the season, (teams we are playing wise).
I fear we will have a knee-jerk reaction and will be back to square one again. That could be disastrous after the clear-out of players so far.
But....
I would like to see an established line-up over the next two games. He's seen everyone play and should know that by now at least.
COYW!
Though my confidence in Felix has been shaken, I still think we should give him a chance.
Rember how well we played in the first two games - and most of us were still positive despite the defeats.
Now we see Felix as making too many unnecessary changes, but I think this will settle down as he comes to realise his best eleven, which he obviously doesn't know at the moment.
We should credit Felix with bringing the through the youngsters in the first place, and appreciate that this is a learning curve for everyone involved, and that this is a very tough division in which to play with a completely inexperienced young side - but let's give Felix more time to turn things around.
The potential is there with our young players, so lets hope it comes good. A new manager would mean more upheaval, and likely see the experiment in youth at the club abandoned in terms of actually having them play in the first team - for which Felix should be applauded.....and given, at least a few, more games to make it work.
this is a re run of of the jol arguments... he should have gone much earlier and so many people said, 'give him a bit more time'.... well sometimes when thingsbecome as obvious as the nose on your face it is time to act and that is now.... the inscent changes are enough to prove magath is wrong and if he stays for up to q0 ganmes then it prevents a new man from having sufficient time, because if we get to 10 games then it will be.... let him have the january window.... mgath is like jol, the wrong person for the job, we don't just need a younger team we need a younger manager.
Completely agree Nose, he has been since the start. Sean Davis said as much and he has seen what goes on inside the club. Change is needed and for me the quicker the better.
I think I still haven't got over going to game after game and seeing us lose. I think it has worn me down. My brain can't get into the sensible thought that it is just 3 games we have lost in a new season, it is thinking oh no we are still on the treadmill of losing, losing, losing.
:plus one:
Quote from: TrexFFC on August 21, 2014, 02:28:56 PM
My anger doesn't just stem from this year. It goes all the way to last year when players like Holtby and Burn were played out of position and the team lineups were just as strange then. I never wanted this guy in the first place. His comments he makes are utterly stupid. "I only play players who are fit." Really then why is McCormack playing? The guy is just a walking contradiction with everything he says. It's really annoying.
:plus one:
The short answer the original question is that you are in a rapidly shrinking minority. In my opinion of hopeless optimists (or naive suckers which I doubt).
Quote from: Twig on August 21, 2014, 05:10:20 PM
The short answer the original question is that you are in a rapidly shrinking minority. In my opinion of hopeless optimists (or naive suckers which I doubt).
an an optimist has just switched, because A] we can't beat a league one promoted side, and B] the WORST team selection i have ever seen, and C] if he stays this is exactly what we did with Jol, minus the youth. i can't sit back, he needs to leave NOW
More to the point is if Mackintosh fails to strengthen the side with players up for a fight , how long after the window should he be kept on. He alone has been the catylist of our failures over the last 3 years.
Yes, you are, apart from Magaths wife, and even she was booing him last night.
He needs more games yes. I think the question is how many
The trouble we have is that we do not know what directives he has been given from above. If it is to get rid of highly paid (overpaid) players and those who have a transfer value and then replace them with a series of mostly free transfers and promising youngsters then in truth that is what he has done but it means his hands are tied.
Given the lack of notable transfers in compared to what has been let go/transferred I think our frustrations and questioning should be directed to people above him - Khan and Mac. It seems to me that they are setting the parameters within which we are now operating and those parameters are set to ensure that we do nothing but tread water or I fear worse.
It seems to me that Felix is operating with both hands tied behind his back. Whether he is up to this challenge is another debate. Based on Wednesday night I fear he is not where it was really men against boys.
Quote from: horse1031 on August 21, 2014, 02:34:50 PM
I agree with you Burt. I would like Felix to get 2 months before he is sacked if at all. I tend to want to stay with managers because of the disruption it causes so I could be wrong... haha
Its all fine and dandy to sack Magath, but knowing our board we will pick the wrong guy and be in a position to lose more games.
I like that Felix has played the kids. If we lose and play kids it is better than the crap we watched last year.
Really? must let us know what stream you watch, and how it is differs from being there and I am still watching crap
I have a history of sticking with Managers for as long as possible, giving them every chance. He has had this. He was supposed to keep us up last season (and he triumphantly said that he would easily) and he FAILED. His tactics and tinkering are ridiculous - a laughing stock to many experienced people within football. He contradicts himself all the time ('team needs to gel', yet he constantly changes it, 'I'll only play fit people', yet he doesn't, 'we need experience alongside youth' yet he fails to play Burn, 'He doesn't want to play for Fulham' - well neither did Suarez at Liverpool last year.
I have tickets for Derby and Brentford and will be amazed if we win either. Why put off the inevitable? Get someone in who at least has a few days to get a handful of experienced guys into the squad.