Another week, another awful performance. A rhetoric who pre dates Symons fateful arrival as caretaker. The fans and forum alike are divided. The results have been poor and the pro vs anti Kit brigade are at arms.
So in reality where are we, and take the time to analyse the excuses that are often banded about.
"We have a young inexperienced team" - probably my most hated excuse that is banded about constantly. In our regular first team, we have 2 players (Bettinelli and LVC) who have not played at Championship level or higher prior to this season. Half the first team are international players. To say they are inexperienced is rediculous. And this nonsense about "they may have played in the premier league but that's not the championship" is frankly rediculous. Put any premiership player in this league and they should destroy it. Football is football
"Kit is bringing young players through" simply a myth. Other than Bettinelli and LVC, none of the young players are getting a look in. In fact Magath was playing more of the young players.
"Kit is learning" when? Name one instance that shows that he's learning from anything.
"Kit can't change the formation because we don't have the players" quite clearly we're currently playing a formation which doesn't suit any of our players.
"We can't sack another manager" if it means not getting relegated then yes we can and should.
At no point have I felt that we're going to improve under Symons.
"We have a poor squad and he's doing his best" there are plenty of teams in this league with far worse teams and squads than ours, which are performing significantly better.
"But didn't you see where we were under Magath" - don't get me wrong, Magath was a disaster, but we played much much better football under him in the first 4-5 games of the season than we have under Symons, even if we didn't get results. Then he tried to add some experience and it fell apart. Anyone could have got some results with the squad we had.
"It's Kahn/the boards fault transfers etc" Kahn has spend more money in the transfer market than Al Fayed did for years. There is nothing to suggest that he didn't provide funds in January. people are demanding that he be a hands on owner, which when he bought the club he said that he wasn't going to be. He's the same with the Jaguars. He hires people to run the clubs, people who should know what they're doing.
Who should replace him? Well that's not my job, but if he stays then we will get relegated. Not even under Jol did we create so few chances per game. Tactically he's abysmal, and he has such a large ego that he won't change his philosophy even though it's clearly not working. We have forward options of McCormack, Rodellega, Ruiz, Smith, Woodrow and Dembele, and we can't score a goals
I said before the Ipswich game that we wouldn't win any of our next seven. That's 2 down. If Kit wasn't a "Fulham guy" then people would be chanting for him to be gone. Too much heart not enough head with our fans at the moment. If any of our previous managers were dishing up the abysmal football that Symons is then no-one would stand for it. We're easily the worst team to watch in the country.
I want to spend my money watching good football and a winning team. Symons can provide neither
Quote from: Ordar on February 22, 2015, 03:33:20 AM
Another week, another awful performance. A rhetoric who pre dates Symons fateful arrival as caretaker. The fans and forum alike are divided. The results have been poor and the pro vs anti Kit brigade are at arms.
So in reality where are we, and take the time to analyse the excuses that are often banded about.
"We have a young inexperienced team" - probably my most hated excuse that is banded about constantly. In our regular first team, we have 2 players (Bettinelli and LVC) who have not played at Championship level or higher prior to this season. Half the first team are international players. To say they are inexperienced is rediculous. And this nonsense about "they may have played in the premier league but that's not the championship" is frankly rediculous. Put any premiership player in this league and they should destroy it. Football is football
"Kit is bringing young players through" simply a myth. Other than Bettinelli and LVC, none of the young players are getting a look in. In fact Magath was playing more of the young players.
"Kit is learning" when? Name one instance that shows that he's learning from anything.
"Kit can't change the formation because we don't have the players" quite clearly we're currently playing a formation which doesn't suit any of our players.
"We can't sack another manager" if it means not getting relegated then yes we can and should.
At no point have I felt that we're going to improve under Symons.
"We have a poor squad and he's doing his best" there are plenty of teams in this league with far worse teams and squads than ours, which are performing significantly better.
"But didn't you see where we were under Magath" - don't get me wrong, Magath was a disaster, but we played much much better football under him in the first 4-5 games of the season than we have under Symons, even if we didn't get results. Then he tried to add some experience and it fell apart. Anyone could have got some results with the squad we had.
"It's Kahn/the boards fault transfers etc" Kahn has spend more money in the transfer market than Al Fayed did for years. There is nothing to suggest that he didn't provide funds in January. people are demanding that he be a hands on owner, which when he bought the club he said that he wasn't going to be. He's the same with the Jaguars. He hires people to run the clubs, people who should know what they're doing.
Who should replace him? Well that's not my job, but if he stays then we will get relegated. Not even under Jol did we create so few chances per game. Tactically he's abysmal, and he has such a large ego that he won't change his philosophy even though it's clearly not working. We have forward options of McCormack, Rodellega, Ruiz, Smith, Woodrow and Dembele, and we can't score a goals
I said before the Ipswich game that we wouldn't win any of our next seven. That's 2 down. If Kit wasn't a "Fulham guy" then people would be chanting for him to be gone. Too much heart not enough head with our fans at the moment. If any of our previous managers were dishing up the abysmal football that Symons is then no-one would stand for it. We're easily the worst team to watch in the country.
I want to spend my money watching good football and a winning team. Symons can provide neither
Who should replace him? Well that's not my job, but if he stays then we will get relegatedI love this sort of comment, it is not your job to find a replacement but it seems it sure is your job to get someone sacked.
I'm quite happy to throw some suggestions out there. If we're looking for a long term appointment the chances are we'll need to poach someone from another job for a change, which we never do.
The current situation is in no way Symons fault, if he keeps us up he's done very well.
I personally think KS needs a helping hand, a shoulder to lean on......we should look at getting someone like Brian McDermott or Nigel Adkins to help Kit carry the burden.......down the road twitchy worked with both goddle and mcclaren
But most players haven't played in the Championship. Football isn't the same football in every Country and league, which is why top players from abroad sometimes struggle in the Prem. A young player isn't suddenly going to improve. It takes time. So the excuses seem fair but like this MB full of the same things every week.
The op is wrong on so many levels, yes Kit is learning, he found out the squad doesn't have the ability to play 4-4-2 at this level with the players he inherited. He tried to play that way again against Ipswich and changed it after 20 mins when the team were completely over run. Ruiz as a sub yesterday was earlier it bought some semblance of control to the midfield.
As for the young players, yes you have a point Cauley, burn, moussa, Williams (until his loan) Roberts, kav haven't had a look in this season. As for other teams with worse squads doing better, I'm not quite sure that this sweeping generalisation is fair or accurate. As for good football under felix, I must have been watching a different disorganised dispassionate group playing in Fulham shirts. The football was woeful and it was embarrassing to watch.
Just ignore, for one moment the rubbish start under Felix, and just concentrate on kit's tenure. Now he is going through the rough patch that every team goes through in a season nothing more nothing less. I can't think of one team that's not had a bit of a dip in form.
Calling for him to be sacked is just a continuation of the lack of forward planning that got Fulham into this mess.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on February 22, 2015, 11:55:11 AM
I personally think KS needs a helping hand, a shoulder to lean on......we should look at getting someone like Brian McDermott or Nigel Adkins to help Kit carry the burden.......down the road twitchy worked with both goddle and mcclaren
Why? We have a better squad than a lot of sides in this leGue. We are however less flexible than any other side. We have one system and we insist on playing people out of position. We haven't improved defensively and when we do go ahead we hold the lead less time than any other side. This has been a side he's had time to work with and most of the players have been brought into the side by him. We're woeful and he hasn't changed a thing.
Quote from: snarks on February 22, 2015, 01:02:12 PM
The op is wrong on so many levels, yes Kit is learning, he found out the squad doesn't have the ability to play 4-4-2 at this level with the players he inherited. He tried to play that way again against Ipswich and changed it after 20 mins when the team were completely over run. Ruiz as a sub yesterday was earlier it bought some semblance of control to the midfield.
As for the young players, yes you have a point Cauley, burn, moussa, Williams (until his loan) Roberts, kav haven't had a look in this season. As for other teams with worse squads doing better, I'm not quite sure that this sweeping generalisation is fair or accurate. As for good football under felix, I must have been watching a different disorganised dispassionate group playing in Fulham shirts. The football was woeful and it was embarrassing to watch.
Just ignore, for one moment the rubbish start under Felix, and just concentrate on kit's tenure. Now he is going through the rough patch that every team goes through in a season nothing more nothing less. I can't think of one team that's not had a bit of a dip in form.
Calling for him to be sacked is just a continuation of the lack of forward planning that got Fulham into this mess.
really? kit got the job playing the 442 system. so why now does it not work? and how is the diamond any better? you cant just go back to the 442 for 30 mins and claim it doesnt work, as it will take a couple of games to erase the crap kit has forced on them for the last few months
I think the OP is spot on, I may have disagreed 6 weeks ago but since we beat Sheffield Wednesday after Xmas we have fallen away again. Every week he does the same thing, predictable, boring to watch, no penetration. Why loan out Smith twice and then instruct Bettinelli to hoof it up to Hugo at every opportunity? The guy has never won a header since the season begun, even if he wins the header no midfield runners are around to feed off of him. Our best player on the bench and although I don't particularly like ruiz and I don't want him here, all that mattes now is survival and he is our best player. It's stubbornness from kit to refuse to change things.
There's no leadership, he does a pathetic clap every so often always with poor timing as if he's encouraging the awful play. There's no leadership from the bench. Why on earth is Bodurov taking free kicks in decent positions? The bloke can't pass, do they not plan for these things before games.
People usually drown when they are out of their depth and it's going to take more than an experienced head to assist him or a lifeguard to rescue this form. If Kit Isn't capable of doing it without help then we need someone that is.
My only disagreement with the OP is the comment about Magath football being better. Magath ' s team were just as bad but slowly kits team are following that mould.
No point sacking him until it is time to panic but he certainly shouldn't keep the role in the summer. Pay compensation and get the man we actually want and not whoever is available
We had similar "Diehards" when Magath was in charge. Obviously Symons being an ex-player will give him even more backing from the 'romantics'.
These fans think they are being loyal, but it is the ones who respond to the issues that are obvious with more urgency and demand results from the club, are the real loyal supporters. It is far harder to be critical of a 'loved one' than it is to do nothing when things are clearly going wrong.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on February 22, 2015, 03:46:44 PM
We had similar "Diehards" when Magath was in charge. Obviously Symons being an ex-player will give him even more backing from the 'romantics'.
These fans think they are being loyal, but it is the ones who respond to the issues that are obvious with more urgency and demand results from the club, are the real loyal supporters. It is far harder to be critical of a 'loved one' than it is to do nothing when things are clearly going wrong.
bloody hell, i must be the most loyal supporter in the world then ;)
Quote from: Nick Bateman on February 22, 2015, 03:46:44 PM
We had similar "Diehards" when Magath was in charge. Obviously Symons being an ex-player will give him even more backing from the 'romantics'.
These fans think they are being loyal, but it is the ones who respond to the issues that are obvious with more urgency and demand results from the club, are the real loyal supporters. It is far harder to be critical of a 'loved one' than it is to do nothing when things are clearly going wrong.
There is so much that is wrong with that post. A loyal supporter is someone like fernhurst and those boys that watched the real dross.
Those that shout loudest are more often just as likely to stop going than support through thick and thin. Just because you back a manager or a player (or don't) doesn't give you any more loyalty as a supporter. I think it's madness that people are calling for kits head. If he's sacked, will I still go, hell yes.
Had the same discussion with Magath. In the end, 'Diehards' were the last to admit they were WRONG, and should have apologized to those who saw the writing on the wall.
So easy to back the incompetant staff in charge, wrap the Fulham flag around one's waist and get a pat on the back while slagging off other supporters who also care yet are willing to suffer the slings and arrows for the overall long-term good of the club.
It's all about opinions. I don't have an issue with people being behind kit but to criticise those who don't is very irritating. I no longer trust him, we had no choice but to offer him the job after such an impressive turnaround. He wasn't my first choice for permanent appointment and he certainly wasn't the panels.
I do think some people refuse to criticise or choose to be patient on purpose just to be different. That way if it does somehow pay off they look clever. Obviously that doesn't apply to everyone but I don't think either way negative or positive you are any less of a true fan if you still stand by the club every week.
Even if you decide it's too painful and go away for a while, it's understandable. But you never lose that feeling inside if you genuinely love the club and you will come back eventually.
You have to take the rough with the smooth but you don't have to lie down and let the world crumble around you to prove your loyalty. It's opinions and that should never change.
I don't deny I thought Felix was a good appointment when he came, I also thought it was time for him to go. I didn't think Rene should have been sacked, Jol was lucky to survive the previous season. I was not one of those calling for Mark Hughes to be sacked following the west ham home defeat, I thought he would come good given time. Oh and I thought hodgson was the wrong choice and was going to take the team down.
For all of that I'm still going and will continue to do so. I'm just not as fickle as some over the manager and believe that the successful managers are the ones that stay at a club for a while even if the results at the start are not promising. Fergie or woy anyone.
As somebody who wanted Felix out very early on because I could see he was making mistakes. As someone who thinks Symons has to stay at least until the season ends because to change now would be a bigger disaster. As someone who has seen the club in all four divisions.
I am no more loyal or better or trusted fan than those who have become a fan yesterday or those who have been fans longer than I have. But as we all want the same thing but have different ideas how to get there. I would no more criticise fans who don't or didn't agree with me than I would stop supporting the club.
So we may have differing opinions but can we stop the silly 'them and us' that is creeping in by some fans on here. Disagree and debate but never attack each other for holding an opinion.
Now leave me alone.
Quote from: Lighthouse on February 22, 2015, 05:28:23 PM
As somebody who wanted Felix out very early on because I could see he was making mistakes. As someone who thinks Symons has to stay at least until the season ends because to change now would be a bigger disaster. As someone who has seen the club in all four divisions.
I am no more loyal or better or trusted fan than those who have become a fan yesterday or those who have been fans longer than I have. But as we all want the same thing but have different ideas how to get there. I would no more criticise fans who don't or didn't agree with me than I would stop supporting the club.
So we may have differing opinions but can we stop the silly 'them and us' that is creeping in by some fans on here. Disagree and debate but never attack each other for holding an opinion.
Now leave me alone.
well said
Piontless a message board being there unless different view pionts as we are all entitled to a democracy that has free speech,a lot of countries haven't.