Every supporter, every club we play against and our own management all know we can't defend. Jokanovic's initial move was to play Matilla in front of the back 4. That in itself worked pretty well although we were still opened up 2nd half on the break. Since then We have gone 4-4-2 with inverted wide MF players as per. Hodgson. Joka has a number of additional other options. 3-5-2 would suit many of our players but could leave us more open. We could try 4-2-3-1 with Matilla and O'Hara as the 2. What I think has happened is that he has seen we are more comfortable with 4-4-2 and keeping possession as this is how Kit had set his team up. The is still Kits team, Kits players and maybe Jokanovic has seen that too much change too quickly will be too much for the players in the short term. He has clearly pushed us up the pitch and is trying to get us to press more and be more aggressive. We unfortunately have relatively timid players and I fully expect changes in the close season when Jokanovic will have fully assessed what he has. In the meantime we will Struggle through with an unbalanced squad, not really suited to this league.
with 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 we will get killed by any team with pace out wide, our centre backs are neither quick or mobile enough to provide the cover required, remember the Birmingham game (that will mean a sleepless night for me now).
I would favour the 4-2-3-1 formation with ross playing in the middle of the 3 flanked by Cairny and LVC, giving them licence to move around between themselves.
At the moment I would tend to agree with FS and WW's posts.
Playing two strikers may mean we are the best at scoring goals in the Championship, but if we continue to score and lose the relegation continues to be a real possibility.
If, and it is a big if, playing just one up front would strengthen our overall defense then so be it. However it is another formation for the team to get used to and we do not seem to be quick learners as a team - who would we use as the two holding midfielders? In my opinion only Mattilla - although possibly Ream or Richards might do a good job there! We could end up still losing matches but without even the compensation of being capable of outscoring the opposition.
If we adopted a really high line and put all our players in the opposition half and the 'keeper on the half way line we could then board up the 24 x 8 rectangle on the empty side and sell an advert on it!
.... I'll get me coat
I just don't get what is happening with the defence of the team. Being at the game all i could see was we were left with only Burn and Hutch trying to cover every onslaught, Garbutt and Jazz nowhere to be seen, then add to that Dan Burn letting his man go see 3Min's into the match highlights, this happens often in games. Lonegan has to do better with the second goal, Hutch pressured him and didn't give away a pen or booking as everyone seems to say he does, think it has happened twice in 2 seasons. Burn has been good in the air but what is he doing pushing forward into their box and then who is covering. If the midfield lose the ball they stop and its time for a rest and hands on head. we really need 2 good holding and defensive midfielders and wingbacks that will come back and help. Hutch Burn and Stear might not be the best but i don't think they deserve the criticism they have been getting. Also three games and three world class goals too all from the midfield not closing the players down.
I like the way the new gaffer is trying to play but it requires more buy in from the lads, just going to be hard for the guys to stop the rot.
We have sacrificed defensive cover for attacking power this season and relied on the defenders to be good enough to mitigate this somewhat with their own ability. Then we signed bad defenders. Meaning we are completely unbalanced, we devote most our our resources to attacking leaving our rubbish defenders having to do the job of world class defenders. Had we signed Dunk over the summer him and Burn would of been an ideal pairing, they can be left largely to their own devices, I still think Ream has potential to be very good in this system but not good enough that we can sacrifice a defensive midfielder for an attacking one yet.
i'm a neophyte yank but the diff b/t 442 and 532 or 4231 or the diamond or whatever is completely lost on me. i don't notice any difference whatsoever when watching a game. good defence happens when midfielders/strikers close out on the ball aggressively, when the back 4 have a coordinated line and when everyone tracks dangerous runners. i really think with soccer (and this is one of the reason i like watching) is that effort and organization can overcome talent (to some extent). that's not so in basketball, for example.
Fulham have enough talent (as much as other teams in the Champ), they just lack drive and organization. not totally blaming the players, mgmt and the coaches need to inspire, to build an identity, to get the guys to trust and die for each other (and the fans) on the pitch.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 14, 2016, 02:20:10 PM
The defence, especially the centre backs get very little protection, they are left exposed as the full backs go AWOL, and the midfield do not track back quick enough and tuck in when we lose the ball, so Burn Hutch and Stearman should not be taking the blame for all that goes wrong.
:plus one:
I've not yet watched the Wolves match, however, judging from what I've read by those there and Slavisa Jokanovic's comments on high pressure - I thought necessary to look at the strongest high pressure side in the world at the moment, the Chile national side who were knocked out on penalties by Brazil in the Round of 16 at the World Cup and won the Copa America in 2015 beating Uruguay and Argentina in the knock-out stages.
Now Chile, coached by Jorge Sampaoli (previously Marcelo Bielsa) have been using a 3412 with Arturo Vidal in essentially a second striker role behind Alexis Sanchez and Eduardo Vargas - both of which can be mobile enough to hug the touchlines and be 'free strikers' if you will, having no restrictions of their forward movements. I don't wish to go off topic so will swiftly move onto the defence of the team:
Almost shielding the three central defenders (at the World Cup) were the 5ft 7 Charles Aranguiz and the 5ft 5 Marcelo Diaz who mark two opposition central midfielders so they remain close whenever a ball comes into - key for the high pressure. When the ball is won, Aranguiz can join in with attacks whilst Diaz anchors the midfield. Keep the height in mind when it comes to the three centre backs: Gonzalo Jara, Gary Medel and Francisco Silva, with 5ft 10 Silva in the middle - 5ft 7 Medel on the right hand side of him and 5ft 10 Jara on the left. Chile do operate with a severe lack of height which of course is a problem with set pieces, but they did in turn win a Copa America. More recently, Jara has been utilised in the central role.
I'm not saying lets emulate Chile - we don't have all of the cogs to copy it exactly, but it's perhaps worth just looking at if imposing ourselves onto football matches in this manner is what we're going for. I still like the 433 for high pressure which can easily move in possession into a 343 - plus player positions means we utilise the full width of the pitch. Problem is, we probably don't have the squad to play that way either.
Quote from: westcliff white on January 13, 2016, 01:01:03 PM
with 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 we will get killed by any team with pace out wide, our centre backs are neither quick or mobile enough to provide the cover required, remember the Birmingham game (that will mean a sleepless night for me now).
I would favour the 4-2-3-1 formation with ross playing in the middle of the 3 flanked by Cairny and LVC, giving them licence to move around between themselves.
I also always liked the 4-2-3-1.
I would go for:
Lonergan
Fredericks Stearman Burn Ream
O'Hara Mattila
Cairney Ross Kaka
Smith
This team would get points, it wouldn't necessarily be pretty though....
Quote from: Black, White and Fred on January 14, 2016, 03:51:12 PM
Quote from: westcliff white on January 13, 2016, 01:01:03 PM
with 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 we will get killed by any team with pace out wide, our centre backs are neither quick or mobile enough to provide the cover required, remember the Birmingham game (that will mean a sleepless night for me now).
I would favour the 4-2-3-1 formation with ross playing in the middle of the 3 flanked by Cairny and LVC, giving them licence to move around between themselves.
I also always liked the 4-2-3-1.
I would go for:
Lonergan
Fredericks Stearman Burn Ream
O'Hara Mattila
Cairney Ross Kaka
Smith
This team would get points, it wouldn't necessarily be pretty though....
Hyndman for O'hara and we've got a replacement for the Murphy/Etuhu Partnership there. Its looks an effective side on paper!
Quote from: Chutney on January 14, 2016, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: Black, White and Fred on January 14, 2016, 03:51:12 PM
Quote from: westcliff white on January 13, 2016, 01:01:03 PM
with 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 we will get killed by any team with pace out wide, our centre backs are neither quick or mobile enough to provide the cover required, remember the Birmingham game (that will mean a sleepless night for me now).
I would favour the 4-2-3-1 formation with ross playing in the middle of the 3 flanked by Cairny and LVC, giving them licence to move around between themselves.
I also always liked the 4-2-3-1.
I would go for:
Lonergan
Fredericks Stearman Burn Ream
OHara Mattila
Cairney Ross Kaka
Smith
This team would get points, it wouldn't necessarily be pretty though....
Hyndman for O'hara and we've got a replacement for the Murphy/Etuhu Partnership there. Its looks an effective side on paper!
I would agree Hyndman and O'Hara are interchangeable, as would Kaka and LVC.
Playing the one up front limits us to using Smith the whole time as Dembele is not capable of doing this role. I do like the 4-2-3-1 but we would need to bring in another striker in on loan to share the load with Smith.