Why do they not allow Scottish teams in the English league.OK,the Jocks are going through a sticky patch at present but they would still add to it.This seems so unfair especially as untalented Welsh teams are allowed into it.Further,Berwick Rangers are English yet play in the Scottish league.Why cannot we return the compliment?
The obvious two are Celtic and Rangers....but it's probably the gate money from their fixtures that keep the other clubs afloat in Scotland. With lesser teams there is the problem of replacement if they get relegated from the league...feeder leagues in Scotland being much weaker, and English hopefuls being denied promotion if it became a case of replacing one with the same nationality.
...besides, when they become an independent nation in The EU, they'll want to merge with Serie A...... :022:
This was discussed many years ago about Rangers & Celtic but they would have been required to start from the old division 4 which they both thought was beneath them.
So the idea is to let a couple of the better Scottish sides into the English league (which division?) and to leave the rest to fester. Seems an odd proposal fraught with practical difficulties, I really can't see the point. Berwick play in the Scottish league for reasons of geography. What is odd is Welsh clubs playing in our league. Just three left now, I believe, now that Wrexham have dropped out.
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I have a better idea, let them join the Outer Mongolian Sunday Morning League Division 9.
The truth is they are different FAs and as such have little to do with each other. They are just different associations with too many people with their hands in the respective cookie jars. While it has been discussed in the past for the big Glasgow clubs the actuality is it will never happen. Travel costs for fans and the fact that only Celtic would be good enough for the bottom half of the Prem.
If we ever had a British Football association then it will become a possibility but as most Countries, especially the greedy politicians want independence. I cannot see it ever happening.
Quote from: gang on October 16, 2018, 05:09:55 PM
This was discussed many years ago about Rangers & Celtic but they would have been required to start from the old division 4 which they both thought was beneath them.
Plus two English Clubs would have to drop out to accommodate them.
It would never be allowed to happen, no English club would vote for them, and why would they want to, and why should foreign teams be allowed in our League, they have their own League up north over the border to rot in.
I don't understand why Welsh teams should be allowed to play in the English League either.
There be may some historical significance as to why welsh teams do, but no way allow teams from north of the border in our League. It will never be allowed to happen, certainly not in the next 500 years.
There will never ever be a British FA, the English FA would never allow it thank goodness, it's an English League and should stay that way.
Of course they could always join the League of Iceland.
Quote from: gang on October 16, 2018, 05:09:55 PM
This was discussed many years ago about Rangers & Celtic but they would have been required to start from the old division 4 which they both thought was beneath them.
Beneath them because Celtic would lose a huge amount of money (Champions/Europa league) and the ability to recruit players of the caliber to keep rising. For 4 years if your lucky.
Sutton United played Irish side Bohemians in the Scottish Challenge Cup yesterday (lost on penalties).
True....but I have no idea of how or why.
Not for me, I remember the friendlies we used to play against Celtic & Rangers.
No way ! I will never forgive All'ys Army and the words of their World Cup song ........."England canny do it cos they didni qualify ' ! Love the people love the country but not when it comes to football .
Quote from: cmg on October 16, 2018, 05:44:56 PM
Sutton United played Irish side Bohemians in the Scottish Challenge Cup yesterday (lost on penalties).
True....but I have no idea of how or why.
In NI it's the top 2, in Ireland it's the top 2 not playing in Europe, In Wales it's the top 2 and non league it's the top 2 not promoted assuming they want to as it's an invitational tournament. It's a tournament like the checkatrade trophy i.e. Lower league teams, so they've gone for other nations to increase the pull of it and market it a bit better. Premier under 21 teams have played in it too so it alll seems a bit of a mess, but it's a decent challenge for the Irish teams at least to see how they fare.
Don't see the point of any Scottish teams playing in England or other teams playing in different leagues for anything over than geography (Berwick) and social/political unrest (Derry)
Must admit having started this post that I am personally bigoted-I really admire the Scots but dislike the whippersnapper Welsh!!
Quote from: Newry FFC on October 16, 2018, 06:53:25 PM
In NI it's the top 2, in Ireland it's the top 2 not playing in Europe, In Wales it's the top 2 and non league it's the top 2 not promoted assuming they want to as it's an invitational tournament....
Thanks.
Interesting that the Scots themselves seem to rate their set-up at least three tiers below the English one.
The idea of the two clubs leaving the Scottish top league is totally unfair on the remaining sides but football across the border does seem to need some sort of injection. If it was possible an amalgamation of the FA and Scottish cup competitions in some form could be interesting, as it does appear that enthusiasm for the FA tournament needs a boost. Fulham playing my favoured Scottish team St. Johnstone, like it.
Celtic and Rangers aren't even the 2 best teams in the league :dft011:.
Screaming out for a switch to being a summer league in my opinion
Personally would not have any scottish team in our leagues. Does anyone know when the welsh teams were allowed in the english leagues?
During the times of Ferguson's Aberdeen and a few other good non old firm teams it was a very interesting and competitive league but was blown away by the money in English football and the rangers fiasco.
Also think the amount of non British players in our leagues have affected them badly national team wise as the case with the welsh and the Irish teams. Top teams in the old Div 1 were full of top class players from the other home nations as much as England. Daglish, Souness, Brady, Stapleton, Law and so on and on.
Quote from: cmg on October 16, 2018, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: Newry FFC on October 16, 2018, 06:53:25 PM
In NI it's the top 2, in Ireland it's the top 2 not playing in Europe, In Wales it's the top 2 and non league it's the top 2 not promoted assuming they want to as it's an invitational tournament....
Thanks.
Interesting that the Scots themselves seem to rate their set-up at least three tiers below the English one.
Having any sort of comparison between the 2 is pointless given the money ploughed into the English game. Extract Celtic, Rangers and the Scottish league doesn't look out of place compared to Dundalk and Cork City. Drumming up support for the lower teams whilst extending the reach of the competition outside Scotland is a good step whilst being able to showcase young talent with the u21 teams in it. I know from being in Ireland and NI that its a bit of an adventure going over to play in the competition, a different element to refresh a stale format perhaps.
Would agree on the above, summer football for that league would improve it, attendances over the summer would increase with families/ schoolkids etc going more in warmer weather, like the LoI has seen and reaped the benefits lately with Shamrock Rovers and Dundalk both in Europa group stages.
Quote from: Marinelloguthrie on October 16, 2018, 08:21:56 PM
Personally would not have any scottish team in our leagues. Does anyone know when the welsh teams were allowed in the english leagues?
During the times of Ferguson's Aberdeen and a few other good non old firm teams it was a very interesting and competitive league but was blown away by the money in English football and the rangers fiasco.
Also think the amount of non British players in our leagues have affected them badly national team wise as the case with the welsh and the Irish teams. Top teams in the old Div 1 were full of top class players from the other home nations as much as England. Daglish, Souness, Brady, Stapleton, Law and so on and on.
Its affected the players, but the attitude of just accepting a lower division is their own fault. All apart from Dalglish on your list ventured out of Britain and didn't harm them one bit.
I've got a better idea: let's just boot out the Welsh teams, starting with Cardiff.
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on October 16, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
I've got a better idea: let's just boot out the Welsh teams, starting with Cardiff.
On Saturday we have a good opportunity to contribute towards booting them out of the English Premier League for starters.
When were either Wales or Scotland an independent country? Which also begs the question, how good would a British Isles team be rather then diluting the talent base into 4 national teams?
No offense, just asking.
The scotts don't even want to be a part of the uk so why would any of their football teams want to join us and why would anyone want them to?
No way over my dead body, would I want or any full blooded proud Englishman would want to amalgamate with them, its unthinkable and a crime.
Anyway no talent is being diluted, we have enough English talent.
This is not a United Kingdom, never has been, never will be, and I would not want it be.
Quote from: Russianrob on October 16, 2018, 03:24:45 PM
Why do they not allow Scottish teams in the English league.OK,the Jocks are going through a sticky patch at present but they would still add to it.This seems so unfair especially as untalented Welsh teams are allowed into it.Further,Berwick Rangers are English yet play in the Scottish league.Why cannot we return the compliment?
Totally agree with you, throw the Welsh teams back into their own country, we'll have Berwick back (so they can go under in a couple of years of zero gate receipts) and especially as we rid ourselves of Colin at the same time :005:
After all this British controversy beginning to think it might be easier to seek Russian Citizenship even if their team is not as good as England,though slightly better than Scotland"s.
The Welsh teams (Swansea, Cardiff, Newport, and Wrexham) were all original members of the Southern League before joining the Football League. Historically it appears no Scottish teams joined English professional associations in the years leading up to the formation of the Football League. It would not be impossible for a Scottish team to play through the English pyramid and gain access to the Football League via that route. Celtic, Rangers, Hearts etc., could put a team through such a route without giving up their Scottish PL positions.
Quote from: YankeeJim on October 16, 2018, 11:12:25 PM
When were either Wales or Scotland an independent country? Which also begs the question, how good would a British Isles team be rather then diluting the talent base into 4 national teams?
No offense, just asking.
Off the top of my head, the Scots about 300 years ago, the Welsh about 800 years ago.
There would have been a few such players over the years who'd have made it into the England team and enhanced it but to do such a thing would certainly erode passion and identification with such a hybrid team. Today I think Bale then....?
c
Quote from: toshes mate on October 17, 2018, 09:07:39 AM
The Welsh teams (Swansea, Cardiff, Newport, and Wrexham) were all original members of the Southern League before joining the Football League. Historically it appears no Scottish teams joined English professional associations in the years leading up to the formation of the Football League. It would not be impossible for a Scottish team to play through the English pyramid and gain access to the Football League via that route. Celtic, Rangers, Hearts etc., could put a team through such a route without giving up their Scottish PL positions.
That's interesting. So, with the loss of Wrexham we can potentially shed the others through natural wastage over the years as well. Starting with Cardiff.
What about England's Independence, and what are we waiting for let's start now. Plenty of good English Clubs battling to get into the English Football League.
Welsh FA are 3rd oldest in the world. After England and Scotland. Its really bad the top welsh teams dont play in the welsh league. They should be made to swap. If there was no welsh FA. then fine
No British league i guess was due to the politics, both countries having national teams and distance back in 1880s.
If Scottish teams did join to have British league. Celtic would challenge for premiership no doubt. As with the SKY/BT money. They would compete and with their fan base be bigger than a lot of the English teams.
Scottish football is not that bad. Its actually better at times than English football. I watch both.
Hearts v Aberdeen is a bigger game than Burnley v Huddersfield.
Aldershot v Woking is a bigger game then Burnley v Huddersfield.
Quote from: Holders on October 17, 2018, 10:19:18 AM
Quote from: YankeeJim on October 16, 2018, 11:12:25 PM
When were either Wales or Scotland an independent country? Which also begs the question, how good would a British Isles team be rather then diluting the talent base into 4 national teams?
No offense, just asking.
Off the top of my head, the Scots about 300 years ago, the Welsh about 800 years ago.
There would have been a few such players over the years who'd have made it into the England team and enhanced it but to do such a thing would certainly erode passion and identification with such a hybrid team. Today I think Bale then....?
c
I know the Scots have some sort of national identity but do the Welsh? Or is it just general dislike of the English?
Quote from: YankeeJim on October 17, 2018, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: Holders on October 17, 2018, 10:19:18 AM
Quote from: YankeeJim on October 16, 2018, 11:12:25 PM
When were either Wales or Scotland an independent country? Which also begs the question, how good would a British Isles team be rather then diluting the talent base into 4 national teams?
No offense, just asking.
Off the top of my head, the Scots about 300 years ago, the Welsh about 800 years ago.
There would have been a few such players over the years who'd have made it into the England team and enhanced it but to do such a thing would certainly erode passion and identification with such a hybrid team. Today I think Bale then....?
c
I know the Scots have some sort of national identity but do the Welsh? Or is it just general dislike of the English?
We English have our own identity, and want to keep it.
The Scots and the welsh have their own leagues to play in and should stay there, and we English have our own League to play in, and there are many English teams who want to play in our top four Divisions if they can, and why not, so there are more than enough English teams to make another four Divisions.
We are four separate nations, no such thing as a British League and thankfully there never will be.
Quote from: YankeeJim on October 17, 2018, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: Holders on October 17, 2018, 10:19:18 AM
Quote from: YankeeJim on October 16, 2018, 11:12:25 PM
When were either Wales or Scotland an independent country? Which also begs the question, how good would a British Isles team be rather then diluting the talent base into 4 national teams?
No offense, just asking.
Off the top of my head, the Scots about 300 years ago, the Welsh about 800 years ago.
There would have been a few such players over the years who'd have made it into the England team and enhanced it but to do such a thing would certainly erode passion and identification with such a hybrid team. Today I think Bale then....?
c
I know the Scots have some sort of national identity but do the Welsh? Or is it just general dislike of the English?
Yes, and they're proud of it. They're much more into Rugby than football. As to dislike of the English - I think that junior partners in any kind of association tend to have an envy or resentment of the senior. In my view, that's why Scots and Welsh tend to flex and celebrate their identities where we tend not to flaunt ours. Curiously, "Welsh" is actually Old English for "foreigner" and when you cross the border into England the sign says, in Welsh, "Croeso i Llogyr" (Welsh for England) or "welcome to the lost lands". Even after all these years they resent us taking most of their land!
Looking back on the 2012 olympics whereas i had no interest in the football as we played as a British team but all other sports i cheered all GB teams no matter where the athletes or players were from.
To be honest why should we allow the Jocks into our league because after all if you listen to "Jimmy (Nicola Sturgeon) Crankie" they all seem to want Independence for the land of the Haggis and personally the sooner they get it the better!!
Quote from: KJS on October 17, 2018, 08:54:55 PM
To be honest why should we allow the Jocks into our league because after all if you listen to "Jimmy (Nicola Sturgeon) Crankie" they all seem to want Independence for the land of the Haggis and personally the sooner they get it the better!!
Dam right, good man. I will drink to that. 🍺
Quote from: Holders on October 17, 2018, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on October 17, 2018, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: Holders on October 17, 2018, 10:19:18 AM
Quote from: YankeeJim on October 16, 2018, 11:12:25 PM
When were either Wales or Scotland an independent country? Which also begs the question, how good would a British Isles team be rather then diluting the talent base into 4 national teams?
No offense, just asking.
Off the top of my head, the Scots about 300 years ago, the Welsh about 800 years ago.
There would have been a few such players over the years who'd have made it into the England team and enhanced it but to do such a thing would certainly erode passion and identification with such a hybrid team. Today I think Bale then....?
c
I know the Scots have some sort of national identity but do the Welsh? Or is it just general dislike of the English?
Yes, and they're proud of it. They're much more into Rugby than football. As to dislike of the English - I think that junior partners in any kind of association tend to have an envy or resentment of the senior. In my view, that's why Scots and Welsh tend to flex and celebrate their identities where we tend not to flaunt ours. Curiously, "Welsh" is actually Old English for "foreigner" and when you cross the border into England the sign says, in Welsh, "Croeso i Llogyr" (Welsh for England) or "welcome to the lost lands". Even after all these years they resent us taking most of their land!
To the Victor the spoils.
Quote from: ron on October 16, 2018, 03:52:13 PM
The obvious two are Celtic and Rangers....but it's probably the gate money from their fixtures that keep the other clubs afloat in Scotland. With lesser teams there is the problem of replacement if they get relegated from the league...feeder leagues in Scotland being much weaker, and English hopefuls being denied promotion if it became a case of replacing one with the same nationality.
...besides, when they become an independent nation in The EU, they'll want to merge with Serie A...... :022:
Won't come to that as we ain't leaving the EU.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on October 17, 2018, 10:01:44 PM
Quote from: ron on October 16, 2018, 03:52:13 PM
The obvious two are Celtic and Rangers....but it's probably the gate money from their fixtures that keep the other clubs afloat in Scotland. With lesser teams there is the problem of replacement if they get relegated from the league...feeder leagues in Scotland being much weaker, and English hopefuls being denied promotion if it became a case of replacing one with the same nationality.
...besides, when they become an independent nation in The EU, they'll want to merge with Serie A...... :022:
Won't come to that as we ain't leaving the EU.
Whose we ?
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 17, 2018, 10:04:58 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on October 17, 2018, 10:01:44 PM
Quote from: ron on October 16, 2018, 03:52:13 PM
The obvious two are Celtic and Rangers....but it's probably the gate money from their fixtures that keep the other clubs afloat in Scotland. With lesser teams there is the problem of replacement if they get relegated from the league...feeder leagues in Scotland being much weaker, and English hopefuls being denied promotion if it became a case of replacing one with the same nationality.
...besides, when they become an independent nation in The EU, they'll want to merge with Serie A...... :022:
Won't come to that as we ain't leaving the EU.
Whose we ?
0001.jpeg
I reckon we should keep the Old firm out but let the little clubs in and we could all amalgamate.
Us and Forfar could become..Fulfar or Forham. 049:gif
Burnley and Dundee... Burndee or Deeburn.
W Brom and Ayr...Ayrwest or Westayr.
Montrose and Brentford... Brentrose
Cowdenbeath and Stoke..Cowstoke.
Motherwell and Preston...Motherton.
Peterborough and Annan..Peter-ann
Any more stupid suggestions, its too early for me.
Quote from: Holders on October 17, 2018, 10:21:38 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 17, 2018, 09:07:39 AM
The Welsh teams (Swansea, Cardiff, Newport, and Wrexham) were all original members of the Southern League before joining the Football League. Historically it appears no Scottish teams joined English professional associations in the years leading up to the formation of the Football League. It would not be impossible for a Scottish team to play through the English pyramid and gain access to the Football League via that route. Celtic, Rangers, Hearts etc., could put a team through such a route without giving up their Scottish PL positions.
That's interesting. So, with the loss of Wrexham we can potentially shed the others through natural wastage over the years as well. Starting with Cardiff.
Wrexham currently second in the National League ...automatic promotion to League 2?