Friends of Fulham

Seri IMO. Cairney too poor defensively.

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on January 01, 2019, 06:30:00 PM
Seri IMO. Cairney too poor defensively.

Sorry, Seri poor all round.

Tom Cairney for me. Although there is not a lot in it.

Just not a Seri fan, I am sorry. he is constantly getting lost in the play and never really re-appears.  Weak on the ball too imo.  Central Midfield is where we need strength and TC is by far more qualified to fill that role.

Seri for me, forget price tag, offers a better overall midfielder in a 2 man mid

The funniest thing about a Cairney/Seri debate is that people will berate Seri for stuff they overlook TC doing at the same time. We're probably playing a 2 man midfield going forward and that's something you can't have TC in because his work rate off the ball is poor so against half decent teams he hamstrings us seeing as we're not having a large amount of possession.

Cairney... at least Seri now thankfully getting dropped ... didn't stop him coming on and making a complete pigs ear of I think their 3rd. Sell him in January and get a battling midfielder in.

Cairney, although if we are going to pick holes in each player, he failed to track their runner for the first today whilst Odoi & Seri left a bouncing ball for one another for the fourth

Quote from: FFC73 on January 01, 2019, 07:06:10 PM
Cairney, although if we are going to pick holes in each player, he failed to track their runner for the first today whilst Odoi & Seri left a bouncing ball for one another for the fourth

And second was his man at the the throw in. Let's be fair if we pick faults

TC for me, but preferably both.

Honestly Seri was very good when he came on, His interception led to the goal and he created several chances including a lovely cross Mitro should have slotted.

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 07:07:57 PM

Quote from: FFC73 on January 01, 2019, 07:06:10 PM
Cairney, although if we are going to pick holes in each player, he failed to track their runner for the first today whilst Odoi & Seri left a bouncing ball for one another for the fourth

And second was his man at the the throw in. Let's be fair if we pick faults

Was the final goal not also partially Mitrovic's fault for backheeling the ball to their player on the edge of the box without looking?

Quote from: GJB on January 01, 2019, 07:21:06 PM

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 07:07:57 PM

Quote from: FFC73 on January 01, 2019, 07:06:10 PM
Cairney, although if we are going to pick holes in each player, he failed to track their runner for the first today whilst Odoi & Seri left a bouncing ball for one another for the fourth

And second was his man at the the throw in. Let's be fair if we pick faults

Was the final goal not also partially Mitrovic's fault for backheeling the ball to their player on the edge of the box without looking?

I'm saying If you watch the goal, ream puts it out for a throw in.

Throw in is taken and cairneys man takes it, a lazy leg is thrown by Cairney before his man lays it off and then ends up in the box and scored, within 10 seconds of play. I would say that would be his fault for not tracking his man.

Cairney for me

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 07:25:14 PM

Quote from: GJB on January 01, 2019, 07:21:06 PM

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 07:07:57 PM

Quote from: FFC73 on January 01, 2019, 07:06:10 PM
Cairney, although if we are going to pick holes in each player, he failed to track their runner for the first today whilst Odoi & Seri left a bouncing ball for one another for the fourth

And second was his man at the the throw in. Let's be fair if we pick faults

Was the final goal not also partially Mitrovic's fault for backheeling the ball to their player on the edge of the box without looking?

I'm saying If you watch the goal, ream puts it out for a throw in.

Throw in is taken and cairneys man takes it, a lazy leg is thrown by Cairney before his man lays it off and then ends up in the box and scored, within 10 seconds of play. I would say that would be his fault for not tracking his man.

i was referring to their final goal, mitro odoi and seri all at fault for not being able to clear the lines

When attacking a game, Cairney.
When holding a lead, Seri.

Both, we play a third CM.

Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Quote from: filham on January 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Because the original plan was to play Anguissa, Seri and Cairney, it just never worked out.

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on January 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM

Quote from: filham on January 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Because the original plan was to play Anguissa, Seri and Cairney, it just never worked out.

And Chambers has become the player we thought (L)anguissa would be.

But also because we changed our shape to counteract a leaky back 4, and a man was taken out of central mid and put in defence.

Quote from: Milo on January 01, 2019, 10:42:50 PM

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on January 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM

Quote from: filham on January 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Because the original plan was to play Anguissa, Seri and Cairney, it just never worked out.

And Chambers has become the player we thought (L)anguissa would be.

But also because we changed our shape to counteract a leaky back 4, and a man was taken out of central mid and put in defence.

Has Zambo been fit since Ranieri has been at the helm or played?

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: Milo on January 01, 2019, 10:42:50 PM

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on January 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM

Quote from: filham on January 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Because the original plan was to play Anguissa, Seri and Cairney, it just never worked out.

And Chambers has become the player we thought (L)anguissa would be.

But also because we changed our shape to counteract a leaky back 4, and a man was taken out of central mid and put in defence.

Has Zambo been fit since Ranieri has been at the helm or played?

True. And Seri has improved under Ranieri.. whether thats just time or actual coaching?

Quote from: Milo on January 01, 2019, 10:46:23 PM

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: Milo on January 01, 2019, 10:42:50 PM

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on January 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM

Quote from: filham on January 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Because the original plan was to play Anguissa, Seri and Cairney, it just never worked out.

And Chambers has become the player we thought (L)anguissa would be.

But also because we changed our shape to counteract a leaky back 4, and a man was taken out of central mid and put in defence.

Has Zambo been fit since Ranieri has been at the helm or played?

True. And Seri has improved under Ranieri.. whether thats just time or actual coaching?

That as a question not a dig I'm hoping someone can tell me if he has played under Ranieri yet

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 10:51:32 PM

Quote from: Milo on January 01, 2019, 10:46:23 PM

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: Milo on January 01, 2019, 10:42:50 PM

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on January 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM

Quote from: filham on January 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Because the original plan was to play Anguissa, Seri and Cairney, it just never worked out.

And Chambers has become the player we thought (L)anguissa would be.

But also because we changed our shape to counteract a leaky back 4, and a man was taken out of central mid and put in defence.

Has Zambo been fit since Ranieri has been at the helm or played?

True. And Seri has improved under Ranieri.. whether thats just time or actual coaching?

That as a question not a dig I'm hoping someone can tell me if he has played under Ranieri yet

I checked Southampton game (Ranieri's first) and he didn't play... can't remember him featuring since?

Quote from: Milo on January 01, 2019, 10:59:50 PM

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 10:51:32 PM

Quote from: Milo on January 01, 2019, 10:46:23 PM

Quote from: DevonFFC on January 01, 2019, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: Milo on January 01, 2019, 10:42:50 PM

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on January 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM

Quote from: filham on January 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Because the original plan was to play Anguissa, Seri and Cairney, it just never worked out.

And Chambers has become the player we thought (L)anguissa would be.

But also because we changed our shape to counteract a leaky back 4, and a man was taken out of central mid and put in defence.

Has Zambo been fit since Ranieri has been at the helm or played?

True. And Seri has improved under Ranieri.. whether thats just time or actual coaching?

That as a question not a dig I'm hoping someone can tell me if he has played under Ranieri yet

I checked Southampton game (Ranieri's first) and he didn't play... can't remember him featuring since?

Interesting to see if Ranieri fancies him, has all the attributes, maybe just lacks the brain

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on January 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM

Quote from: filham on January 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Because the original plan was to play Anguissa, Seri and Cairney, it just never worked out.

And this could work in a Slav type set up.  Seri is an upgrade on StefJo and Anguissa an upgrade on KMac, has had a tough start but I expect him to come good.   The question I have is this is ok in a 4-3-3 but we are just too weak defensively to play 4-3-3.   All 3 players will be or are very good players, but it may not be possible to play them in the same 11, especially with 5 at the back.   For me, Tom can only play the advanced central MF role.  Seri may not be great defensively but he is still better than Tom who defensively is a liability in this league.

Quote from: FulhamStu on January 01, 2019, 11:19:22 PM

Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on January 01, 2019, 10:17:10 PM

Quote from: filham on January 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Cairney for me and it is clear that that we cannot afford the luxury of both in the same team.
Of course that begs the question why on earth did we buy Seri, would not the money have been better spent on a right back.

Because the original plan was to play Anguissa, Seri and Cairney, it just never worked out.

And this could work in a Slav type set up.  Seri is an upgrade on StefJo and Anguissa an upgrade on KMac, has had a tough start but I expect him to come good.   The question I have is this is ok in a 4-3-3 but we are just too weak defensively to play 4-3-3.   All 3 players will be or are very good players, but it may not be possible to play them in the same 11, especially with 5 at the back.   For me, Tom can only play the advanced central MF role.  Seri may not be great defensively but he is still better than Tom who defensively is a liability in this league.

Tom proved today, albeit against arsenal so a good team he cannot defend to save his life and does not track runners. I didn't realise either the goal today can't because of Seri interception

Let's face facts, without Seri on the field Fulham hasnt scored this season and we have conceeded 8 goals in around 260mins. Watch Seri and you'll realise he often doesn't have many passing options except backwards. We are terrible without Seri, cannot score and leaking worse. Cairney is class too, we need get a good defence that can have Seri and Cairney on the field.

3-6-1 time: https://spielverlagerung.com/2015/12/06/the-3-6-1-a-logical-step/

Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 02, 2019, 05:01:12 AM
Let's face facts, without Seri on the field Fulham hasnt scored this season and we have conceeded 8 goals in around 260mins. Watch Seri and you'll realise he often doesn't have many passing options except backwards. We are terrible without Seri, cannot score and leaking worse. Cairney is class too, we need get a good defence that can have Seri and Cairney on the field.

Hear hear.

Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 02, 2019, 05:01:12 AM
Let's face facts, without Seri on the field Fulham hasnt scored this season and we have conceeded 8 goals in around 260mins.

Haven't scored? Except last week against Huddersfield then.

And what is our average goals conceded per 260 minutes with Seri? I'm guessing 6-7. Hardly a stark contrast is it.

He has started every game except 1 so there isn't really a fair sample of minutes to compare with/without him anyway.

There really isn't any point to the choice because they are not peas in a pod but two distinctly different kinds of footballer.  Cairney is an out and out playmaker who still has to prove himself at this level.  Seri is a more all round midfielder who is jack of all trades but, thus far at least, master of none.  Really do not want to disrespect either player because it is the overall balance, formation, and match strategy that is at fault.  Why was Seri purchased in preference to other potential candidates as midfield engine houses - that is my only question? 

It mystifies me as to why Seri gets so much flack on here. He's a good player.

Quote from: Statto on January 02, 2019, 08:20:26 AM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 02, 2019, 05:01:12 AM
Let's face facts, without Seri on the field Fulham hasnt scored this season and we have conceeded 8 goals in around 260mins.

Haven't scored? Except last week against Huddersfield then.

And what is our average goals conceded per 260 minutes with Seri? I'm guessing 6-7. Hardly a stark contrast is it.

He has started every game except 1 so there isn't really a fair sample of minutes to compare with/without him anyway.

True, I forgot about the Huddersfield goal when Seri was off the field, but it's still means Fulham are 1-8 goals without Seri which indicates we have at least as many problems when Seri isn't on the field.

Fans are so harsh on Seri. For example, no one mentioned Seri was critical in the goal against Arsenal involved i) Seri winning the ball, ii) Seri moving the ball ip the field, iii) Seri passing to Cairney, iv) Seri providing an option for Cairney to pass to, v) Seri passing to Sess, vi) Sess crossing it and vii) Kamara scores.

And Seri messing up again for their 3rd goal ...

Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on January 02, 2019, 09:58:52 AM
And Seri messing up again for their 3rd goal ...

And Cairney didn't mess up for Two goals with not tracking us man into the box. You cannot crucify one and not the other for the mistakes you speak of.

Leave your favouritism behind and look at the game in hand, Seri does not deserve the slack he is getting, unfortunately as with any  big transfer signing Fulham fans like to try and ruin them before they even start with us.

Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on January 02, 2019, 09:37:26 AM
It mystifies me as to why Seri gets so much flack on here. He's a good player.

I agree, but the current side's formation, strategy and defensive nous is so dismally lacking Seri doesn't get noted for his positive contributions because the team are so often on the back foot and leaking goals. 

I am still of the opinion it is the right and left full back positions that are key to success with this team and I am not sure Fulham have solved either flank because the higher up pitch partnerships have simply not gelled together.  Overall I think we lack real pace in those key positions, but I'd like to see Seri when the side is playing better than they have been so far.

Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on January 02, 2019, 09:58:52 AM
And Seri messing up again for their 3rd goal ...

People have mention Seri's mistakes a lot, but in fairness all our players are giving people a lot to choose from. Seri was woeful for the 3rd goal, but other players weren't good.

Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 02, 2019, 05:01:12 AM
Let's face facts, without Seri on the field Fulham hasnt scored this season and we have conceeded 8 goals in around 260mins. Watch Seri and you'll realise he often doesn't have many passing options except backwards. We are terrible without Seri, cannot score and leaking worse. Cairney is class too, we need get a good defence that can have Seri and Cairney on the field.

You could just be right, as said above the midfield triangle of Anguissa, Cairney and Seri ,on paper, is an improvement on last season's brilliant mid field engine room. However it all fell apart because of the terrible back four.


Our window priority has to be a new proven centre back and a right back.

If Cairney weren't a pretty good player this question - and some of the supporters' answers - would be almost laughable.    I think Mitrovic is clearly our best player and Sessegnon the best young player, but after that Seri'd be the player you'd keep over anyone else.  And some wouldn't even pick him! 

A  very interesting debate but the only fault I can find with Seri is he needs to appreciate that he can not dwell. on the ball
in this league, but both players are guilty of that, and both would be good with better players around them