I was there last night. The system was a joke. The only player with pace was odoi - but as he was marking Redmond, supported by Bertrand, he had almost no chance to get forward. The midfield diamond didn't work at all, obviously. WIth no pace and no width, Chambers and Anguissa were playing as 'false wingers' (if that's even a thing) and the role suited them not one bit. Taking off Cairney was a masterstroke of lunacy, our only passer off as two players who move and make space in Vietto and Sess come on. And moving Babel to the wing to have Vietto through the middle is crazy, denying us Babel's physicality in the box and Vietto's pace in the space out wide.
This is entirely on the manager. The **** up was of the system, and having the wrog players in the wrong positions. How many months in, and no idea what his best team is or even system. But for all that - the players really really tried. There was nobody who didn't seem to care, typified by Cairney. They had the good grace to come over looking forlorn and heartbroken at the end, not just disappear down the tunnel like the manager. Southampton did nothing all game, and won comfortably, because of CR. He shackled the players into uselessness. Except Rico, who was there already.
I could do the same job as the manager, for half the money, and get the same results. I wouldn't even have to turn up! And a trained chimp could do the job of Rico.
You get my vote a Abfg, when can you start?
Quote from: bigalffc on February 28, 2019, 07:44:26 AM
You get my vote a Abfg, when can you start?
:plus one:
Immediately!
Sorry i have to disagree with the players really tried part of this. In a game like this against fellow strugglers i never once saw a tackle of intent or any Fulham player busting a gut to win a 60-40 ball.
Along with there deficiencies as a team there's been no leader or leaders.
I thought we were terrible last night, I have to agree the set up just did not work and we had no width. Our passing was poor and at times suicidal with giving it away some dangerous positions. It was a good job Southampton were so bad otherwise it could have been a hatful.
The players are clearly not playing for the Manager, or each other in some cases.
But that has been the case since the commencement of the season.
The problems lie deeper than just management, and until the deeper problems are removed, it's a poisoned chalice.
Actually I have to say to an extent I agree with the OP, the players were playing in a system that was nonsensical, when I saw the team sheet, I actually thought, that could be interesting, I thought either Kmac or Chambers would play in a back 5, with Bryan and Odoi providing the width with TC just behind Mitro and Babel. Innovative I thought.
I then saw the line up before kick off and thought f*** he really is playing 3 holding midfielders in the middle, behind TC. So where's the width going to come from. Saints first attack down the right saw Betrand and Redmond against Odoi, and I thought he'll make an adjustment, still no.
By half time our lack of width would have been noticeable to a 3 year old, so he'll bring on markovic and sess I thought, he's a coach with experience, he must see what 1500 of us in the stands could see. Well he clearly couldn't his masterstroke at 68 minutes when we are 2-0 down in a must win game, is to take of a creative midfielder (the only one in the squad) and one of the holding CM's (the wrong one in my view) and put on Sess (hooray) and Vietto? what - yes vietto at that point he'd lost the plot in the way Felix did playing Burn at LB.
I can't actually fault the players for the way they played last night, I can fault the nonsensical selection that set them up for defeat and left them with no idea how to play.
It must be difficult for the players to motivate themselves with different line ups and tactics in almost every match.
Last night's crazy system must have been the last throw of the dice by Ranieri, difficult to think what he can come up with next.
Surprised by this. Didn't see much effort beyond the least the could give to be honest. Southampton didn't have to up their game beyond what they did.
No doubt as a minority of one, I felt a bit sorry for Rico last night (having watched only the highlights).
I am 100% a Bettinelli fan and he should have been No.1 this season (injuries apart). But Rico's punch for the first goal was solid enough - and it wasn't really a catchable cross - but it fell to an opponent. On the second goal he did well to reach the ball at all, I thought.
The "should have pushed the ball away from goal" is becoming as much a commentator's cliché as "shouldn't be beaten at his near post", and neither fits all circumstances.
I don't expect anyone to agree with me !
Quote from: snarks on February 28, 2019, 10:32:32 AM
Actually I have to say to an extent I agree with the OP, the players were playing in a system that was nonsensical, when I saw the team sheet, I actually thought, that could be interesting, I thought either Kmac or Chambers would play in a back 5, with Bryan and Odoi providing the width with TC just behind Mitro and Babel. Innovative I thought.
I then saw the line up before kick off and thought f*** he really is playing 3 holding midfielders in the middle, behind TC. So where's the width going to come from. Saints first attack down the right saw Betrand and Redmond against Odoi, and I thought he'll make an adjustment, still no.
By half time our lack of width would have been noticeable to a 3 year old, so he'll bring on markovic and sess I thought, he's a coach with experience, he must see what 1500 of us in the stands could see. Well he clearly couldn't his masterstroke at 68 minutes when we are 2-0 down in a must win game, is to take of a creative midfielder (the only one in the squad) and one of the holding CM's (the wrong one in my view) and put on Sess (hooray) and Vietto? what - yes vietto at that point he'd lost the plot in the way Felix did playing Burn at LB.
I can't actually fault the players for the way they played last night, I can fault the nonsensical selection that set them up for defeat and left them with no idea how to play.
Well said. Anyone watching could see Odoi was getting absolutely exposed there. When Mitro has to actually drop into a RM spot to defend, you know it's bad. I'm with you, Ranieri is supposed to be a well seasoned manager, yet doesn't make any adjustments to an obvious exploit? He later says it's about our wingers not being good enough compared to theirs...so what was the solution?
I can't fault the players. We actually had a 20-pass sequence there, where Babel's shot was deflected wide. It was brilliant. Problem was, we couldn't regain possession against their 5-man midfield and high pressure. It lead to their second goal, and that was that. Ranieri's lost the plot and he's taking the safest, most generic, form of communication by talking about passion and belief. He needs to sit his players one-by-one and ask if they have that passion and belief in him first. If they don't, then there's your answer.
The formation was referred to as a lopsided diamond which always left one flank exposed. When we tried to shore that side up we left the other side exposed. When the changes were made we left both flanks exposed.
A question then for the attendees. When TC was substituted and the chants of "you don't know what you're doing" rang out did TC really gesture for calm as he walked off?
Where was Seri?
Quote from: Fulham1959 on February 28, 2019, 11:39:40 AM
No doubt as a minority of one, I felt a bit sorry for Rico last night (having watched only the highlights).
I am 100% a Bettinelli fan and he should have been No.1 this season (injuries apart). But Rico's punch for the first goal was solid enough - and it wasn't really a catchable cross - but it fell to an opponent. On the second goal he did well to reach the ball at all, I thought.
The "should have pushed the ball away from goal" is becoming as much a commentator's cliché as "shouldn't be beaten at his near post", and neither fits all circumstances.
I don't expect anyone to agree with me !
My thoughts exactly - the punch for the first should be followed up by someone (and also the ball was outside the corner segment when the corner was taken, so should have been ruled out anyway), and Bryan is too slow to react for the second (which came about from Nordveit heading a ball into a congested area under no pressure, when he should have just let it go back to Rico/ taken the ball down)
Thanks for that abfg. it is so obvious that the players have lost confidence in the clown but more worrying no one in the club seems to be doing anything about it. As for T Khan......
092.gif
Quote from: Fulham1959 on February 28, 2019, 11:39:40 AM
No doubt as a minority of one, I felt a bit sorry for Rico last night (having watched only the highlights).
I am 100% a Bettinelli fan and he should have been No.1 this season (injuries apart). But Rico's punch for the first goal was solid enough - and it wasn't really a catchable cross - but it fell to an opponent. On the second goal he did well to reach the ball at all, I thought.
The "should have pushed the ball away from goal" is becoming as much a commentator's cliché as "shouldn't be beaten at his near post", and neither fits all circumstances.
I don't expect anyone to agree with me !
I too anm a Betts fan and cannot see how he came to be dropped. I have not rated Rico from the start but do not agree with your assesment I am afraid. The punch for gaol one was straight and we all know you either have to catch or go diagonal. Goal two started from a dreadful clearance from Rico and the key reason I was told for him not Betts was distribution... but that kick was rotten and led to an immediate breakdown , of our possesion. I do agree the commentators always blame keepers if the ball is not pushed wide but I thought he could have done much better.
I do not think he suited to English football, was a poor addition but his saving grace (no joke intended) is that he is much better than Fabri who even in the friendly V celta vigo looked a liability.
Quote from: abfg on February 28, 2019, 07:41:17 AM
I was there last night. The system was a joke. The only player with pace was odoi - but as he was marking Redmond, supported by Bertrand, he had almost no chance to get forward. The midfield diamond didn't work at all, obviously. WIth no pace and no width, Chambers and Anguissa were playing as 'false wingers' (if that's even a thing) and the role suited them not one bit. Taking off Cairney was a masterstroke of lunacy, our only passer off as two players who move and make space in Vietto and Sess come on. And moving Babel to the wing to have Vietto through the middle is crazy, denying us Babel's physicality in the box and Vietto's pace in the space out wide.
This is entirely on the manager. The **** up was of the system, and having the wrog players in the wrong positions. How many months in, and no idea what his best team is or even system. But for all that - the players really really tried. There was nobody who didn't seem to care, typified by Cairney. They had the good grace to come over looking forlorn and heartbroken at the end, not just disappear down the tunnel like the manager. Southampton did nothing all game, and won comfortably, because of CR. He shackled the players into uselessness. Except Rico, who was there already.
I could do the same job as the manager, for half the money, and get the same results. I wouldn't even have to turn up! And a trained chimp could do the job of Rico.
Very well said but I think I should be manager and you can be my assistant. You can even play a game or two if you want.
Quote from: ALG01 on February 28, 2019, 12:34:46 PM
Quote from: abfg on February 28, 2019, 07:41:17 AM
I was there last night. The system was a joke. The only player with pace was odoi - but as he was marking Redmond, supported by Bertrand, he had almost no chance to get forward. The midfield diamond didn't work at all, obviously. WIth no pace and no width, Chambers and Anguissa were playing as 'false wingers' (if that's even a thing) and the role suited them not one bit. Taking off Cairney was a masterstroke of lunacy, our only passer off as two players who move and make space in Vietto and Sess come on. And moving Babel to the wing to have Vietto through the middle is crazy, denying us Babel's physicality in the box and Vietto's pace in the space out wide.
This is entirely on the manager. The **** up was of the system, and having the wrog players in the wrong positions. How many months in, and no idea what his best team is or even system. But for all that - the players really really tried. There was nobody who didn't seem to care, typified by Cairney. They had the good grace to come over looking forlorn and heartbroken at the end, not just disappear down the tunnel like the manager. Southampton did nothing all game, and won comfortably, because of CR. He shackled the players into uselessness. Except Rico, who was there already.
I could do the same job as the manager, for half the money, and get the same results. I wouldn't even have to turn up! And a trained chimp could do the job of Rico.
Very well said but I think I should be manager and you can be my assistant. You can even play a game or two if you want.
I would like to be the sponge man, and cut the oranges at half time.
I mentioned it over an egg lunch sunny side up with TK only yesterday, and he turned me down, saying he doesn't eat sponge cake, and he reminded me that our colours are not orange.
Couldn't get there last night but on soccer special Chris Kamara was covering our game and he kept saying that he felt sorry for Mitrovich as he was all over the pitch but getting no support from the other players who are going down with a whimper and if this was the case then only CR is to blame!!
Quote from: KJS on February 28, 2019, 12:45:12 PM
Couldn't get there last night but on soccer special Chris Kamara was covering our game and he kept saying that he felt sorry for Mitrovich as he was all over the pitch but getting no support from the other players who are going down with a whimper and if this was the case then only CR is to blame!!
Mitro was everywhere. He is usually left battling on his own, facing towards his own goal, as he was last night. He was making takles just in front of Denis at one point. I can't believe Benetiz wouldn't pick him as "he didn't defend from the front" he works really hard, and was clearly hugely frustrated, and quite upset about missing that chance in the first minute of the 2nd half.
TC really got stuck in too, winning tackles. KMac added a calm assurance and availability in a way that Seri doesn't do. The problem was no one could run forward, there was such a disconnect between 3 holding midfielders plus TC and Mitro/Babel.
TC gave a sort of apologetic clapping gesture as he went off - to the cries "you don't know what you're doing "