No doubt this will disappear in about half an hour but as already been flagged anything that is deemed in the slightest way offensive to the Khans is being deleted
Part of the beauty of the board has been how we all have a moan about the players/manager/owners but do remain some kind of civility
If we are now going to enter some kind of North Korean mother state whereby there is no critisim of those higher up then I am afriad the board is no longer for me
Likewise free speech in a polite tone ,what next mods becoming mouthpiece for the owners.
This is a board for polite opinions you Mods
Fire away..
When we are approached about defamatory coments again, and threatend with legal action, we'll just give up all the details of our Members, rather than trying to cover for them, and take it on the chin as a Forum.
Quote from: Friendsoffulham on March 29, 2019, 06:42:23 PM
Fire away..
When we are approached about defamatory coments again, and threatend with legal action, we'll just give up all the details of our Members, rather than trying to cover for them, and take it on the chin as a Forum.
i'm not involved in this and have never slagged off the khans or any other owner .BUT friends of Fulham mod beware of what you threaten there is a data protection act in place.
However I don't see any value in grinding tony Khan to the extent he has been.
I can quite understand any defamatory material being removed. I am aware of what, for example, happened to posts concerning a character who was removed from Motspur Park which was a fair way to protect all concerned. Defamation is a serious matter since it steps well outside the arena of opinion, and I am not surprised if questionable posts are pulled well before damage can be done to anyone including the poster and the object of the defamation. I would also hope and believe our moderators are keen for the FOF forum to keep healthy opinion on the Khans and anyone else connected with FFC lively and topical since to do otherwise would be a rapid road to rendering these kinds of boards meaningless and obsolete. We can all be offended by opinion but it doesn't make it defamatory.
Football forums have not been immune from club owners, or other people associated with the club, or indeed other forum members, taking legal action for defamatory comments made about them.
Forum owners have a duty of care to ensure that nothing on here could pave the way for someone to take libel action against posters making public comments that they allege have impact their reputation and standing.
Just google "Owlstalk Legal Action" and see what happened with this Sheff Wed fans forum. Basically the owner was put under judicial pressure to disclose the identity and contact details of certain posters who made statements against the then-owners of the club, who in turn decided to press charges.
This is why we have our Guidelines for Posting.
And this is why certain posts get removed. It's nothing to do with restricting free speech, or being in the pockets of certain people. It's all to do with protecting certain members from themselves when they make potentially libelous comments, and putting FOF in a position where we may end up being put under pressure to disclose the identity of posters.
We have no objection to "healthy opinion", but will pull the plug on posts that have unfounded potentially libelous allegations that impact the reputation and standing of others to the extent that they may issue proceedings.
It is certainly neither defamatory nor libellous to opine that TK's appointment is nepotism in action - his relationship with the owner and his complete lack of relevant prior experience or achievement establish a compelling case.
And it is surely within the range of legitimate comment to offer the opinion that TK has proved inadequate in role and would be most unlikely to get a comparable position with any other Premiership or Championship club.
Quote from: Friendsoffulham on March 29, 2019, 06:42:23 PM
Fire away..
When we are approached about defamatory coments again, and threatend with legal action, we'll just give up all the details of our Members, rather than trying to cover for them, and take it on the chin as a Forum.
What is regarded as defamatory? Surely saying 'I don't believe Tony Khan should be director of football at Fulham FC' is?
If this upsets the club then they really have lost touch.
I see that fof are trying to look out for posters and thank them for that.
However, if TK & Co can't take the critisism/observations of the way they are "running things" then if they/he can't take the heat then perhaps it's time to vacate the kitchen.
Quote from: Jims Dentist on March 29, 2019, 08:43:03 PM
I see that fof are trying to look out for posters and thank them for that.
However, if TK & Co can't take the critisism/observations of the way they are "running things" then if they/he can't take the heat then perhaps it's time to vacate the kitchen.
and if they can't accept criticism they should sell the club.
Quote from: hovewhite on March 29, 2019, 08:50:40 PM
Quote from: Jims Dentist on March 29, 2019, 08:43:03 PM
I see that fof are trying to look out for posters and thank them for that.
However, if TK & Co can't take the critisism/observations of the way they are "running things" then if they/he can't take the heat then perhaps it's time to vacate the kitchen.
and if they can't accept criticism they should sell the club.
they must read this site,for them to pressure the mods.
Quote from: hovewhite on March 29, 2019, 08:50:40 PM
Quote from: Jims Dentist on March 29, 2019, 08:43:03 PM
I see that fof are trying to look out for posters and thank them for that.
However, if TK & Co can't take the critisism/observations of the way they are "running things" then if they/he can't take the heat then perhaps it's time to vacate the kitchen.
and if they can't accept criticism they should sell the club.
Agreed. Have no idea why Shad bought Fulham
Quote from: Penfold on March 29, 2019, 09:56:23 PM
Quote from: hovewhite on March 29, 2019, 08:50:40 PM
Quote from: Jims Dentist on March 29, 2019, 08:43:03 PM
I see that fof are trying to look out for posters and thank them for that.
However, if TK & Co can't take the critisism/observations of the way they are "running things" then if they/he can't take the heat then perhaps it's time to vacate the kitchen.
and if they can't accept criticism they should sell the club.
Agreed. Have no idea why Shad bought Fulham
no idea why,but I don't think I remember being so negative about any of the owners of our lovely club.
One does not see the logic in being negative towards the Khans. They have shown they will invest at least £100million in Fulham F.C. It was not about their backing but the quality of player they acquired. That would suggest a lack of experience and relying on our scouts who referred them to the individuals we acquired.
So if one is to criticize then perhaps one should single out the judgement of Fulham's scouts who recommended these sub-standard over-priced players, not the lack of financial support the Khans gave Fulham.
They bought Mitrovic for £25million which was paramount!
Quote from: Burt on March 29, 2019, 07:05:58 PM
Football forums have not been immune from club owners, or other people associated with the club, or indeed other forum members, taking legal action for defamatory comments made about them.
Forum owners have a duty of care to ensure that nothing on here could pave the way for someone to take libel action against posters making public comments that they allege have impact their reputation and standing.
Just google "Owlstalk Legal Action" and see what happened with this Sheff Wed fans forum. Basically the owner was put under judicial pressure to disclose the identity and contact details of certain posters who made statements against the then-owners of the club, who in turn decided to press charges.
This is why we have our Guidelines for Posting.
And this is why certain posts get removed. It's nothing to do with restricting free speech, or being in the pockets of certain people. It's all to do with protecting certain members from themselves when they make potentially libelous comments, and putting FOF in a position where we may end up being put under pressure to disclose the identity of posters.
We have no objection to "healthy opinion", but will pull the plug on posts that have unfounded potentially libelous allegations that impact the reputation and standing of others to the extent that they may issue proceedings.
:plus one:
I respect this stance and believe in the integrity of our mods. I also believe, however, that posters should be allowed to voice their opinions. The answer is almost certainly that posters should reread their posts before they post and assess whether their comments are libel-fodder. There's always ways of wording grievances that cover your 4rse. Direct accusations are pretty much an open invitation for legal action.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on March 29, 2019, 11:37:12 PM
One does not see the logic in being negative towards the Khans. They have shown they will invest at least £100million in Fulham F.C. It was not about their backing but the quality of player they acquired. That would suggest a lack of experience and relying on our scouts who referred them to the individuals we acquired.
So if one is to criticize then perhaps one should single out the judgement of Fulham's scouts who recommended these sub-standard over-priced players, not the lack of financial support the Khans gave Fulham.
They bought Mitrovic for £25million which was paramount!
True Nick, but that's not the point.
Anti Khan posts have become repetitive and boring.
'We hate you for spending £100 million"
The constant search for a scapegoat always seem to ignore the players on the field making £50k a week.
It's the khans fault that the players seem to play only when it suits them.
Yes, the khans are to blame and saint Slav or whoever other non player you worship have nothing to do with it.
Let's move on
I suppose those who are aggrieved at the removal of their posts can always back their own confidence that their views are not libellous and send the very same words directly to the Club along with their name and address.
Quote from: Nick Bateman on March 29, 2019, 11:37:12 PM
One does not see the logic in being negative towards the Khans. They have shown they will invest at least £100million in Fulham F.C. It was not about their backing but the quality of player they acquired. That would suggest a lack of experience and relying on our scouts who referred them to the individuals we acquired.
So if one is to criticize then perhaps one should single out the judgement of Fulham's scouts who recommended these sub-standard over-priced players, not the lack of financial support the Khans gave Fulham.
They bought Mitrovic for £25million which was paramount!
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The Khans may have made mistakes, mainly, perhaps, in failing to surround themselves with people experienced in running a Prem club but they are to be aplauded in investing heavily in the club - and for getting us back into the Prem, and that glorious day at Wembley.
Such a shame that crucial errors have meant our Prem tenure has been a failure this time. I'm sure the Khans are mortified by this, just as we are.
I agree with Ray Smith. I also think people should voice oppinions but clearly in a way that does not mean getting sued. I believe the Mods are looking out for us. Personally I have no major problem with the Khans owning the club. Yes I am concerned with the on field results and how that has come about and yes I am concerned with how much tickets will be next season, but its the use of language thats used to express that the mods are concerned about I'm sure. My two pennies anyway.
If the mods have been approached by the club then the Khan's are feeling the heat and aren't used to critiscum.
What you also have to appreciate is that the site can also be sued for defamation as they are deemed publishers of any defamatory comments. There is a difference between free speech and hosting potentially defamatory comments
Quote from: RaySmith on March 30, 2019, 04:46:21 AM
The Khans may have made mistakes, mainly, perhaps, in failing to surround themselves with people experienced in running a Prem club but they are to be aplauded in investing heavily in the club - and for getting us back into the Prem, and that glorious day at Wembley.
Such a shame that crucial errors have meant our Prem tenure has been a failure this time. I'm sure the Khans are mortified by this, just as we are.
I have no more idea than you have of what the Khans' truly feel about the last two seasons. Elation with victory is pretty catching among supporters of any club as is being mortified in defeat. But an owner has a special view of affairs that we can never share. At one level there is the public statement, action, and activity but at another level is the hidden, the politics of planning, reasoning, and decision making. I do not pretend to know what happened between the ears of those tasked with turning the success at Wembley, unexpected as it may have been, but suffice to say it was not what a good professional would have ordered. Owners should never be immune form criticism especially when they fail to express remorse by remedying the sources of that remorse and instead target others who were much less guilty of making mistakes.
This forum is a natural place to express such points and opinions. The Khans need to respect those who make such points and not get uppity because some people disagree with them. I do not blame them if they simply point out those comments that, in their opinion, go too far, but it is the moderators who run this forum who should always have the final say so, including the right to express the view that pressure from FFC is OTT
if that should ever be the case.
Quote from: snarks on March 30, 2019, 08:25:46 AM
What you also have to appreciate is that the site can also be sued for defamation as they are deemed publishers of any defamatory comments. There is a difference between free speech and hosting potentially defamatory comments
Precisely.
Pressure is coming from everywhere owing to decisions being made with in the club added to that the protest today.
Quote from: TerryR on March 30, 2019, 12:54:01 AM
Anti Khan posts have become repetitive and boring.
'We hate you for spending £100 million"
The constant search for a scapegoat always seem to ignore the players on the field making £50k a week.
It's the khans fault that the players seem to play only when it suits them.
Yes, the khans are to blame and saint Slav or whoever other non player you worship have nothing to do with it.
Let's move on
Agree it like the Stop the Greed protest aimed at the owners if the players didnt want paying 50k a week and agents demanding silly fees they wouldnt have to charge such high prices, then if the Khans refused to pay the wages to get/keep the players then they would be at fault for that. who would want to own a football club
Quote from: Friendsoffulham on March 29, 2019, 06:42:23 PM
Fire away..
When we are approached about defamatory coments again, and threatend with legal action, we'll just give up all the details of our Members, rather than trying to cover for them, and take it on the chin as a Forum.
Just for the record what consitutes a defamatory comment. I am very critical of the Khan's actions, not their intent, but the poor management that we have discussed endlessly regarding transfers and some other stuff. Or are we rather talking about more personal abuse... I have siad for instance more than once their transfer policy last summer was negligent, is that OK?
Quote from: Nick Bateman on March 29, 2019, 11:37:12 PM
One does not see the logic in being negative towards the Khans. They have shown they will invest at least £100million in Fulham F.C. It was not about their backing but the quality of player they acquired. That would suggest a lack of experience and relying on our scouts who referred them to the individuals we acquired.
So if one is to criticize then perhaps one should single out the judgement of Fulham's scouts who recommended these sub-standard over-priced players, not the lack of financial support the Khans gave Fulham.
They bought Mitrovic for £25million which was paramount!Quote from: Nick Bateman on March 29, 2019, 11:37:12 PM
One does not see the logic in being negative towards the Khans. They have shown they will invest at least £100million in Fulham F.C. It was not about their backing but the quality of player they acquired. That would suggest a lack of experience and relying on our scouts who referred them to the individuals we acquired.
So if one is to criticize then perhaps one should single out the judgement of Fulham's scouts who recommended these sub-standard over-priced players, not the lack of financial support the Khans gave Fulham.
They bought Mitrovic for £25million which was paramount!
Nick, that was a nice gently worded post, not your usual bull at the gate style.
In this instance I agree with your every word, lets have more of the same.
I don't reckon I've ever written a post on here that could actually constitute defamation but I'm not a defamation lawyer and have only a Wikipedia-level understanding of the subject.
Also personally, I wouldn't want the aggravation of having to defend a claim of defamation even if I was sure it would fail, and I respect the forum operators' right to feel the same way.
I think this sort of thing is really shameful and have said in PMs to the mods that Id love to see it all made public somehow, eg, post the solicitors letters on the board or pass them to someone like Ryan O'Donovan (Get West London) or Sam Wallace (Telegraph) but again I respect the forum's choice and they may feel that's poking a hornets' nest.
Perhaps language in the personal text under avatars could be used to protect posters. I'd like to add something like this but it won't fit: "In the absence of an explicit statement to the contrary, I do not have any non-public information about the subject of my posts, and they are just my opinion, or speculation, based on publicly-available information."
We'd like to thank everyone for their contributions towards this thread, and, by now, we'd like to think, that we've given enough information, as to why some post/coments were pulled from the Forum.
We value EVERY single member who posts on Friends of Fulham, and, respect that ALL voices should be heard, along with opinions about anything FFC related, past or present.
Trust US when we say this, but, our main priority is YOU, the members, and we'll do all we can to protect your safety moving forward.
For now, we are going to lock this thread, not because we don't want to discuss it, but feel we should be moving on now with footballing and Fulham related matters.