This is worth a debate
There seem to be no indications that anyone but Cairney will be Captain next season
And he has done nothing wrong to lose Captaincy
BUT
Most of us would say he is not a natural on field leader . ( Unlike MacDonald )
We will need all the leadership we can get
Also is he a certain starter ?
He struggled last time in the Premier League when being one footed and not the quickest limited his impact
I hope he can flourish this time round but for that does he need to focus on his game alone or does Captaincy burden him ?
And if not Cairney who ?
Mitro ? Too hot headed ?
Hector ? Too new ?
With TC as capatain we have been promoted two out of three seasons. and reached the play offs the season before. Not a bad record.
Given what happened in 2018/19 I can now see why SP has been shaping TC into a more combative midfielder that sits a little deeper. He's still pulling strings but we're less reliant on him which takes the pressure off his shoulders.
With this type of role I think TC can still do well as captain, I also cant see anyone else with the right credentials to step up? At a push it's Mitro who is already vice-captain. I think he's going to have a tough enough season as it is though?
There is a lot made of the captains role in football. In reality there should be 11 captains on the pitch and a few more on the side.
Having said that managers sometimes come in and install their own man as did Keegan with John Collins. However was it because Simon Morgan decided to step aside?
KMac is the obvious candidate. Or at least he would have been if it wasn't for the fact that he will probably start 0 league games in the PL.
From the players that will actually play regularly I don't see many potential leaders to be honest. That's exactly what we have been missing for a while.
Perhaps Cairney isn't the leader we ideally want as a captain but replacing him now would be absolute madness IMO. Unless he asks for it himself of course, but I don't think that will happen.
I vote for Cairney. Let's not rock the boat.
TC- No debate needed
I can only assume all these assumptions about McDonald's personality type are based on him being a combative DM. If you follow the players on social media you'll see that whilst he's clearly a positive influence in the dressing room, he's also a bit of a clown. A decent vice-captain but not proper captain material IMO.
Cairney on the other hand initially comes across as a bit of a tart with his haircut and designer clothes, but on closer inspection he's a bit of a Bobby Moore type IMO - very much focussed on his football, family and not a lot else.
Cairney isn't one of those Roy Keane type captains that some people seem to crave but there isn't much room for them in the modern game anyway. And they never were that useful - always liable to get sent off or get in a row with one their teammates or something.
Cairney seems to get on with everyone and be somewhat of a calming influence, difusing tensions and focussing minds, which IMO is far more useful.
My only concern about Cairney is that IMO the captain needs to be in the starting XI week in, week out, and at this level I'm not sure that's guaranteed with him. Obviously it also rules out McDonald and the other popular candidate, Ream.
If we stay up this year and Cairney becomes a rotation player, then (but only then) we should look for an alternate leader among the regular starters, IMO. Perhaps Hector depending on how the next 12 months go for him.
I see no point in changing the person who leads the team out & has the most difficult decision of whether to call Heads or Tails.
Unlike in cricket a football captain doesn´t really have to change tactics. Rodak, Hector & Reed are the voices on the pitch. Parker usually calls over Bryan or whoever is RB to pass on changes, never seen Cairney being called over.
I have one real concern with TC, his apparent lack of communication, during a game last season, Bryan got a nasty injury and was down quite a while, both Mitro and Ream rushed over and stayed with him whilst getting treatment, it was quite noticeable that TC did not go over and see what was going on, in fact he did not even look over he just stood in centre circle, all Fulham players were just standing around and he made no attempt to talk/gee them up. Now for me the first thing he should have done was just check on Bryan, making sure he ok, then, have a word with players.
End of concern.
It will be TC, one thing, Parker is 'loyal' to players, too much so.
Quote from: alfie on August 18, 2020, 04:10:16 PM
I have one real concern with TC, his apparent lack of communication, during a game last season, Bryan got a nasty injury and was down quite a while, both Mitro and Ream rushed over and stayed with him whilst getting treatment, it was quite noticeable that TC did not go over and see what was going on, in fact he did not even look over he just stood in centre circle, all Fulham players were just standing around and he made no attempt to talk/gee them up. Now for me the first thing he should have done was just check on Bryan, making sure he ok, then, have a word with players.
End of concern.
You could argue, too many chefs.
Quote from: Statto on August 18, 2020, 02:25:09 PM
I can only assume all these assumptions about McDonald's personality type are based on him being a combative DM. If you follow the players on social media you'll see that whilst he's clearly a positive influence in the dressing room, he's also a bit of a clown. A decent vice-captain but not proper captain material IMO.
Cairney on the other hand initially comes across as a bit of a tart with his haircut and designer clothes, but on closer inspection he's a bit of a Bobby Moore type IMO - very much focussed on his football, family and not a lot else.
Cairney isn't one of those Roy Keane type captains that some people seem to crave but there isn't much room for them in the modern game anyway. And they never were that useful - always liable to get sent off or get in a row with one their teammates or something.
Cairney seems to get on with everyone and be somewhat of a calming influence, difusing tensions and focussing minds, which IMO is far more useful.
My only concern about Cairney is that IMO the captain needs to be in the starting XI week in, week out, and at this level I'm not sure that's guaranteed with him. Obviously it also rules out McDonald and the other popular candidate, Ream.
If we stay up this year and Cairney becomes a rotation player, then (but only then) we should look for an alternate leader among the regular starters, IMO. Perhaps Hector depending on how the next 12 months go for him.
I mean, that's just perfectly put imho. I think Hector would be a good choice as well.
Nothing should change.
Cairney captain with Mitrovic taking the armband if he is unavailable
There's nothing wrong with our current one 🤨
Hector, a born leader who performed more consistently than any other Fulham player last season!
Quote from: grandad on August 18, 2020, 04:01:47 PM
I see no point in changing the person who leads the team out & has the most difficult decision of whether to call Heads or Tails.
Unlike in cricket a football captain doesn´t really have to change tactics. Rodak, Hector & Reed are the voices on the pitch. Parker usually calls over Bryan or whoever is RB to pass on changes, never seen Cairney being called over.
Exactly. A football captain these days is more like a figurehead for the club. If you want the team to do well then you need leaders across the pitch, not just the person with the armband on.
Ain't Nobody
Quote from: Matt10 on August 18, 2020, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 18, 2020, 02:25:09 PM
I can only assume all these assumptions about McDonald's personality type are based on him being a combative DM. If you follow the players on social media you'll see that whilst he's clearly a positive influence in the dressing room, he's also a bit of a clown. A decent vice-captain but not proper captain material IMO.
Cairney on the other hand initially comes across as a bit of a tart with his haircut and designer clothes, but on closer inspection he's a bit of a Bobby Moore type IMO - very much focussed on his football, family and not a lot else.
Cairney isn't one of those Roy Keane type captains that some people seem to crave but there isn't much room for them in the modern game anyway. And they never were that useful - always liable to get sent off or get in a row with one their teammates or something.
Cairney seems to get on with everyone and be somewhat of a calming influence, difusing tensions and focussing minds, which IMO is far more useful.
My only concern about Cairney is that IMO the captain needs to be in the starting XI week in, week out, and at this level I'm not sure that's guaranteed with him. Obviously it also rules out McDonald and the other popular candidate, Ream.
If we stay up this year and Cairney becomes a rotation player, then (but only then) we should look for an alternate leader among the regular starters, IMO. Perhaps Hector depending on how the next 12 months go for him.
I mean, that's just perfectly put imho. I think Hector would be a good choice as well.
Tom Cairney is probably the best choice, he doesn't have many of the non-essential qualities that most people would like to have in an ideal captain like a great motivator, but he has everything a captain needs to have and none of the qualities that you don't want a captain having like being a clown KMac, first to leave training Stefjo (acccordonh yo an Cairney interview), getting into yoga fights Mitro, not mastered English enough to be captain like Caveleiro, some were away last season like Anguissa, some won't start if everyone is fit and some other players like to be alone don't like leading. If Chris Smalling joins he could be an ideal captain and Hector is potential too, but Tom Cairney is safe choice like David Beckham for England.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 19, 2020, 05:34:21 AM
Quote from: Matt10 on August 18, 2020, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 18, 2020, 02:25:09 PM
I can only assume all these assumptions about McDonald's personality type are based on him being a combative DM. If you follow the players on social media you'll see that whilst he's clearly a positive influence in the dressing room, he's also a bit of a clown. A decent vice-captain but not proper captain material IMO.
Cairney on the other hand initially comes across as a bit of a tart with his haircut and designer clothes, but on closer inspection he's a bit of a Bobby Moore type IMO - very much focussed on his football, family and not a lot else.
Cairney isn't one of those Roy Keane type captains that some people seem to crave but there isn't much room for them in the modern game anyway. And they never were that useful - always liable to get sent off or get in a row with one their teammates or something.
Cairney seems to get on with everyone and be somewhat of a calming influence, difusing tensions and focussing minds, which IMO is far more useful.
My only concern about Cairney is that IMO the captain needs to be in the starting XI week in, week out, and at this level I'm not sure that's guaranteed with him. Obviously it also rules out McDonald and the other popular candidate, Ream.
If we stay up this year and Cairney becomes a rotation player, then (but only then) we should look for an alternate leader among the regular starters, IMO. Perhaps Hector depending on how the next 12 months go for him.
I mean, that's just perfectly put imho. I think Hector would be a good choice as well.
Tom Cairney is probably the best choice, he doesn't have many of the non-essential qualities that most people would like to have in an ideal captain like a great motivator, but he has everything a captain needs to have and none of the qualities that you don't want a captain having like being a clown KMac, first to leave training Stefjo (acccordonh yo an Cairney interview), getting into yoga fights Mitro, not mastered English enough to be captain like Caveleiro, some were away last season like Anguissa, some won't start if everyone is fit and some other players like to be alone don't like leading. If Chris Smalling joins he could be an ideal captain and Hector is potential too, but Tom Cairney is safe choice like David Beckham for England.
He should really intervened during 'Penaltygate'. There are no doubts he's lacking at times, he shouldn't be 'bemused' at something, he should be there to sort stuff out on the pitch. He just needs to be more commanding. The issue is that he's a confidence player (he needs everything to be 100% with the team to be at his best), this is reflected in his captaincy.
As I said previously, it's a none issue, he has Parker's backing. When I think of Captain, I think of Bryan Robson, Man Utd.
Quote from: rebel on August 19, 2020, 06:47:32 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 19, 2020, 05:34:21 AM
Quote from: Matt10 on August 18, 2020, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 18, 2020, 02:25:09 PM
I can only assume all these assumptions about McDonald's personality type are based on him being a combative DM. If you follow the players on social media you'll see that whilst he's clearly a positive influence in the dressing room, he's also a bit of a clown. A decent vice-captain but not proper captain material IMO.
Cairney on the other hand initially comes across as a bit of a tart with his haircut and designer clothes, but on closer inspection he's a bit of a Bobby Moore type IMO - very much focussed on his football, family and not a lot else.
Cairney isn't one of those Roy Keane type captains that some people seem to crave but there isn't much room for them in the modern game anyway. And they never were that useful - always liable to get sent off or get in a row with one their teammates or something.
Cairney seems to get on with everyone and be somewhat of a calming influence, difusing tensions and focussing minds, which IMO is far more useful.
My only concern about Cairney is that IMO the captain needs to be in the starting XI week in, week out, and at this level I'm not sure that's guaranteed with him. Obviously it also rules out McDonald and the other popular candidate, Ream.
If we stay up this year and Cairney becomes a rotation player, then (but only then) we should look for an alternate leader among the regular starters, IMO. Perhaps Hector depending on how the next 12 months go for him.
I mean, that's just perfectly put imho. I think Hector would be a good choice as well.
Tom Cairney is probably the best choice, he doesn't have many of the non-essential qualities that most people would like to have in an ideal captain like a great motivator, but he has everything a captain needs to have and none of the qualities that you don't want a captain having like being a clown KMac, first to leave training Stefjo (acccordonh yo an Cairney interview), getting into yoga fights Mitro, not mastered English enough to be captain like Caveleiro, some were away last season like Anguissa, some won't start if everyone is fit and some other players like to be alone don't like leading. If Chris Smalling joins he could be an ideal captain and Hector is potential too, but Tom Cairney is safe choice like David Beckham for England.
He should really intervened during 'Penaltygate'. There are no doubts he's lacking at times, he shouldn't be 'bemused' at something, he should be there to sort stuff out on the pitch. He just needs to be more commanding. The issue is that he's a confidence player (he needs everything to be 100% with the team to be at his best), this is reflected in his captaincy.
As I said previously, it's a none issue, he has Parker's backing. When I think of Captain, I think of Bryan Robson, Man Utd.
Tom Cairney didn't do anything in 'Penaltygate', but the worst kind of captain would have been more commanding and made things worse, probably with us ending up with two red cards with Bowyer and Dyer situtation. Bryan Robson is a top captain, but we don't have anyone close to him in the squad in terms of leadership. The worst idea would be choosing someone like KMac trying to be like Bryan Robson. If your not Bryan Robson, then trying to be Bryan Robson is a bad idea.
Tom Cairney's handling of 'Penaltygate' wasn't good and wasn't terrible, Kamara wasn't the coach's choice for penalty taker but he was an experienced penalty taker and had a perfect penalty-taking record up to that point in his career. Even after the miss, Kamara's penalty-taking record is still much better than Mitrovic's, with Kamara scoring six times for every time he missed and Mitro scoring twice for every time he missed.
Tom Cairney didn't have 20-20 hindsight knowing that Kamara would miss his first-ever penalty, and probably thought getting involved may give away a free-kick and lose the penalty, so better to let the second choice penalty taker shoot than get involved. I also wonder why Kamara thought he could take the penalty because previous times when both of them are on the field he has let Mitovic take the penalty, but after scoring a penalty against De Gea thinks he should take it.
Kamara was out of order - presumably Mitro was the designated pen taker. Kamara lost discipline, and just wanted a chance to score since he'd the one been brought down, i think.
Maybe Cairney should have intervened, but he might have thought it would make matters worse in the heat of the moment.
I remember someone on a podcast criticised him, saying 'all he was interested in was how his hair looked, rather than taking charge of the situation.' But I think Tom's patting his hair is just a nervous habit, rather than excess vanity at an inappropriate moment, and he is someone who doesn't rush into things shouting, but tries to sum up the situation, and maybe makes a quiet intervention at the right moment.
Quote from: Statto on August 18, 2020, 02:25:09 PM
I can only assume all these assumptions about McDonald's personality type are based on him being a combative DM. If you follow the players on social media you'll see that whilst he's clearly a positive influence in the dressing room, he's also a bit of a clown. A decent vice-captain but not proper captain material IMO.
Cairney on the other hand initially comes across as a bit of a tart with his haircut and designer clothes, but on closer inspection he's a bit of a Bobby Moore type IMO - very much focussed on his football, family and not a lot else.
Cairney isn't one of those Roy Keane type captains that some people seem to crave but there isn't much room for them in the modern game anyway. And they never were that useful - always liable to get sent off or get in a row with one their teammates or something.
Cairney seems to get on with everyone and be somewhat of a calming influence, difusing tensions and focussing minds, which IMO is far more useful.
My only concern about Cairney is that IMO the captain needs to be in the starting XI week in, week out, and at this level I'm not sure that's guaranteed with him. Obviously it also rules out McDonald and the other popular candidate, Ream.
If we stay up this year and Cairney becomes a rotation player, then (but only then) we should look for an alternate leader among the regular starters, IMO. Perhaps Hector depending on how the next 12 months go for him.
Nail hit on head.