Qpr opted not to take to the knee last night. I think the whole protest was all very well but eventually things like this lose their potency so what next?
Someone had to be the first. I think the problem with this is that people seem to think that taking the knee is a sign of support, and so not taking the knee is the opposite, whereas that is not necessarily the case.
They should just keep politics and or racial politics out of football if they don't want controversy. Not that they'll do that.
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on September 22, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
They should just keep politics and or racial politics out of football if they don't want controversy. Not that they'll do that.
Well this comment alone is pretty controversial.
Quote from: Samsara on September 23, 2020, 12:27:06 AM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on September 22, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
They should just keep politics and or racial politics out of football if they don't want controversy. Not that they'll do that.
Well this comment alone is pretty controversial.
Yes it is. But people are ok with it, which is the problem..
When 45% of Americans are happy to take the knee but don't bother to take less than 30 minutes to vote every four years, I think its unfair to single out the problem as "Trump supporters that do vote that also refuse to take the knee because they believe in the opposite policies to solving America's problems to the Democrats". Democrat policies like "reducing gun ownership to reduce gun crime", which seems logically for anyone growing up in Fulham (like me), might not make sense to a decent citizen growing up in Wisconsin, but not voting is most often just laziness and not caring.
Quote from: Texas White on September 23, 2020, 01:51:19 AM
Quote from: Samsara on September 23, 2020, 12:27:06 AM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on September 22, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
They should just keep politics and or racial politics out of football if they don't want controversy. Not that they'll do that.
Well this comment alone is pretty controversial.
Yes it is. But people are ok with it, which is the problem..
its a problem that people want all politics kept out of football? Pandora's box has been opened now anyway and all politics will be bought into football
Its gotten more complicated as its gone along.(like anything) As any good cause gets taken over by people with a political agenda.
"Black lives matter" as a statement is undoubtedly true, and we need more progress.
But BLM is also an non government political organization(at least in N.A.) which has views outside the true statement that black lives matter. Such as officially opposing Israel, calling for the abolishment of police, calling itself a marxist organization, and campaigning against the nuclear family.
Quote from: Andy S on September 22, 2020, 08:52:47 PM
Qpr opted not to take to the knee last night. I think the whole protest was all very well but eventually things like this lose their potency so what next?
Les Ferdinand said that is the reason why they didn't.
However; this topic is getting very close to being offensive to some....
This is a fairly comprehensive explanation of why QPR decided to act as they did:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54237179 (https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54237179)
In my opinion there is some good and sensible logic behind the Club's decision.
Well done QPR!
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on September 22, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
They should just keep politics and or racial politics out of football if they don't want controversy. Not that they'll do that.
Nothing in the public eye is apolitical, and if we are to follow the mantra of the second wave feminists who rightly looked at structure of the home, then nothing out of the public eye is apolitical either.
Where one can find voice to speak to power, one should. It's easy to ask for no racial politics in football when (I)(we) are not the ones that need to find a voice. Im happy to see brothers in humanity use their platform.
But if you still do not want politics in football then I assume you are for removing minute silences on d-day? The removal of anythinf of the kind, no poppies on the shirt? That is political too, the difference is we all see it as
our war,
our body politics. Taking a knee can sometimes be difficult for some as they don't think its part of their collective politic, but if you watch those knees being taken youll notice some black players with bowed heads and fist raised, and that is what matters. We are a community and if an injustice leads any man on the field to bow their head in reflection, then we should all be there with them
Its nothing new. But few ever listen.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/John_Carlos%2C_Tommie_Smith%2C_Peter_Norman_1968cr.jpg)
Some are very easily offended these days.
Quote from: west kowloon white on September 24, 2020, 05:01:44 PM
Some are very easily offended these days.
Theres always the offended, and then theres those offended at the offendeds offendedness. Ill admit I can be the latter
:005:
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
I believe the majority of folk being killed by Covid19 are pensioners (care homes etc). So perhaps we could have a "GREY LIVES MATTER" with folk holding their back in mock pain for 10 seconds?
But if you still do not want politics in football then I assume you are for removing minute silences on d-day? The removal of anythinf of the kind, no poppies on the shirt? That is political too, the difference is we all see it as our war, our body politics.
That is NOT political it is respect for those who gave their lives so that we can be free.
Get rid, it's a Joke , this is a radical hate filled Marxist mob, majority of people are against any kind of racism, keep rubbing it in everyone's face is disgusting.
+1
Quote from: fulhamben on September 23, 2020, 06:14:46 AM
Quote from: Texas White on September 23, 2020, 01:51:19 AM
Quote from: Samsara on September 23, 2020, 12:27:06 AM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on September 22, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
They should just keep politics and or racial politics out of football if they don't want controversy. Not that they'll do that.
Well this comment alone is pretty controversial.
Yes it is. But people are ok with it, which is the problem..
its a problem that people want all politics kept out of football? Pandora's box has been opened now anyway and all politics will be bought into football
Exactly my feeling. Too late now. It's going to be rubbed in your face forever more and they'll be no place to escape from it,but that's the point.
How many people took notice of the slogan at our ground " Kick Racism Out Of Football" ? How many of us were aware that there was racism in football? Before the BLM protest fades to nothing the next part of making things happen needs to be done. We cannot undo history and neither should we try. Ripping statues down is no good but erecting new ones of black hero's should be done. Watford should erect a statue of John Barns and Luther Blisset. There is also Arther Wharton one of the first players to play in England. A brilliant athlete by all accounts Then we have Benjamin Odefe the first black player to represent England at any level. His statue should be erected at Wembley next to that of Bobby Moore.
Laurie Cunningham of West Brom was the first black player to represent England at the top level. So instead of going down on one knee some of these black footballers should dip into their pockets and fund some decent statues so that we can remember these players for future generations. Or at least get supporters on board
Quote from: Andy S on September 24, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
How many people took notice of the slogan at our ground " Kick Racism Out Of Football" ? How many of us were aware that there was racism in football? Before the BLM protest fades to nothing the next part of making things happen needs to be done. We cannot undo history and neither should we try. Ripping statues down is no good but erecting new ones of black hero's should be done. Watford should erect a statue of John Barns and Luther Blisset. There is also Arther Wharton one of the first players to play in England. A brilliant athlete by all accounts Then we have Benjamin Odefe the first black player to represent England at any level. His statue should be erected at Wembley next to that of Bobby Moore.
Laurie Cunningham of West Brom was the first black player to represent England at the top level. So instead of going down on one knee some of these black footballers should dip into their pockets and fund some decent statues so that we can remember these players for future generations. Or at least get supporters on board
0001.jpeg very level post, behind you here
Quote from: blingo on September 24, 2020, 06:42:58 PM
But if you still do not want politics in football then I assume you are for removing minute silences on d-day? The removal of anythinf of the kind, no poppies on the shirt? That is political too, the difference is we all see it as our war, our body politics.
That is NOT political it is respect for those who gave their lives so that we can be free.
As opposed to lives lost in black emancipation? Celebrating a war won is political, being on the good side of history is still political. I wasnt downplaying the war heroes, Im a history graduate I dont need to be told about that, Im just trying to help us understand what it means to be political.
Status quo is political, still, even if normalised. We just forget it is because its our culture.
Here's the thing..you can take the knee and feel good about yourself. You can point out the others who don't take the knee and say they are racist and feel good about yourself. You can campaign to take down statues of people who died before Britain banned slavery in 1803 and feel good about yourself. However, all the Trans Atlantic slaves are long gone but millions are in slavery today and whilst everyone taking part in protests against American police (with not actual outcomes here in the UK - we are a different country) may be able to preen in front of their dinner party friends, no one was saved no one was freed and no one's life got better.
https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/maps/#prevalence
I joined the International Anti-Slavery movement. I don't say that to make myself look good (I did nothing for all of my life up o now) I say it to promote actually doing something rather than gestures.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 24, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
One did, he lost his football career over it. I respect him for what he chose to sacrifice and the symbolism he was trying to invoke. The fact that so many Americans did not either understand or chose to demonize his actions was upsetting to me. But it was in line with the status quo. You either had to be either ignorant or have your head in the sand to not realize these things were occurring in the United States.
Kneeling before each game now seems opportunistic on the part of professional leagues. Much like a moment of silence before a game, doing it as they returned seemed legitimate, not so much now. I respect QPR's statement and believe it is correct. If a player wants to kneel, sing, put their arm over their heart during an anthem, more power to them. Otherwise, it is time to start looking for better, more effective ways to invoke true change.
Quote from: WolverineFFC on September 25, 2020, 03:01:52 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 24, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
One did, he lost his football career over it. I respect him for what he chose to sacrifice and the symbolism he was trying to invoke. The fact that so many Americans did not either understand or chose to demonize his actions was upsetting to me. But it was in line with the status quo. You either had to be either ignorant or have your head in the sand to not realize these things were occurring in the United States.
Kneeling before each game now seems opportunistic on the part of professional leagues. Much like a moment of silence before a game, doing it as they returned seemed legitimate, not so much now. I respect QPR's statement and believe it is correct. If a player wants to kneel, sing, put their arm over their heart during an anthem, more power to them. Otherwise, it is time to start looking for better, more effective ways to invoke true change.
That is absolutely not true. He wasn't a good enough quarterback and his play ran him out of the league. And now he's profiting because of the corporate use of BLM. Nike pays him millions to endorse their stuff. CK is just a poseur who is profiting from pretending to be a black radical of the 60s.
What is ignorant is trying to say black people don't have equal rights or are lesser than in America. That hasn't been the case for years. What is going on today is about profit and political power. It's quite laughable but for the fact that it pays big time for someone like Kaepernick who is a pretty face for corporations to profit off of. Hopefully this is the halcyon days of critical race theorists, because they are a bane to all human beings.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:53:55 AM
Quote from: WolverineFFC on September 25, 2020, 03:01:52 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 24, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
One did, he lost his football career over it. I respect him for what he chose to sacrifice and the symbolism he was trying to invoke. The fact that so many Americans did not either understand or chose to demonize his actions was upsetting to me. But it was in line with the status quo. You either had to be either ignorant or have your head in the sand to not realize these things were occurring in the United States.
Kneeling before each game now seems opportunistic on the part of professional leagues. Much like a moment of silence before a game, doing it as they returned seemed legitimate, not so much now. I respect QPR's statement and believe it is correct. If a player wants to kneel, sing, put their arm over their heart during an anthem, more power to them. Otherwise, it is time to start looking for better, more effective ways to invoke true change.
That is absolutely not true. He wasn't a good enough quarterback and his play ran him out of the league. And now he's profiting because of the corporate use of BLM. Nike pays him millions to endorse their stuff. CK is just a poseur who is profiting from pretending to be a black radical of the 60s.
What is ignorant is trying to say black people don't have equal rights or are lesser than in America. That hasn't been the case for years. What is going on today is about profit and political power. It's quite laughable but for the fact that it pays big time for someone like Kaepernick who is a pretty face for corporations to profit off of. Hopefully this is the halcyon days of critical race theorists, because they are bane to all human beings.
I may be wrong...but your post implies that you think racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Am I correct in that assumption?
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
I have respect for Les Ferdinand and we should listen carefully to what he has to say.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 25, 2020, 05:15:28 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:53:55 AM
Quote from: WolverineFFC on September 25, 2020, 03:01:52 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 24, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
One did, he lost his football career over it. I respect him for what he chose to sacrifice and the symbolism he was trying to invoke. The fact that so many Americans did not either understand or chose to demonize his actions was upsetting to me. But it was in line with the status quo. You either had to be either ignorant or have your head in the sand to not realize these things were occurring in the United States.
Kneeling before each game now seems opportunistic on the part of professional leagues. Much like a moment of silence before a game, doing it as they returned seemed legitimate, not so much now. I respect QPR's statement and believe it is correct. If a player wants to kneel, sing, put their arm over their heart during an anthem, more power to them. Otherwise, it is time to start looking for better, more effective ways to invoke true change.
That is absolutely not true. He wasn't a good enough quarterback and his play ran him out of the league. And now he's profiting because of the corporate use of BLM. Nike pays him millions to endorse their stuff. CK is just a poseur who is profiting from pretending to be a black radical of the 60s.
What is ignorant is trying to say black people don't have equal rights or are lesser than in America. That hasn't been the case for years. What is going on today is about profit and political power. It's quite laughable but for the fact that it pays big time for someone like Kaepernick who is a pretty face for corporations to profit off of. Hopefully this is the halcyon days of critical race theorists, because they are bane to all human beings.
I may be wrong...but your post implies that you think racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Am I correct in that assumption?
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
No, my post does not imply racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Racism exists everywhere and probably will to some degree forever, since human beings are inherently bigoted towards others for all manner of reasons. Clearly though Barack Obama couldn't have been President if America was truly a racist place. Sadiq Khan couldn't have made it in America so that he could now own Fulham. LeBron James couldn't be on a path to billionaire status if our way of life and laws were racist. And Minneapolis would have never hired an Asian, Hispanic, and black cop to arrest George Floyd that day.
As you know, racism isn't just a white on black thing, but can be a black on white thing, a white on white thing, so on and so forth. BLM is itself arguably a racist movement or at the very least a movement that abides racists. I can't support that and will stand up to those who do. Do black lives matter though? Yes, most definitely.
I agree 100% with this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COVLrghVURc
Quote from: Andy S on September 24, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
How many people took notice of the slogan at our ground " Kick Racism Out Of Football" ? How many of us were aware that there was racism in football? Before the BLM protest fades to nothing the next part of making things happen needs to be done. We cannot undo history and neither should we try. Ripping statues down is no good but erecting new ones of black hero's should be done. Watford should erect a statue of John Barns and Luther Blisset. There is also Arther Wharton one of the first players to play in England. A brilliant athlete by all accounts Then we have Benjamin Odefe the first black player to represent England at any level. His statue should be erected at Wembley next to that of Bobby Moore.
Laurie Cunningham of West Brom was the first black player to represent England at the top level. So instead of going down on one knee some of these black footballers should dip into their pockets and fund some decent statues so that we can remember these players for future generations. Or at least get supporters on board
Perhaps we should get the Michael Jackson statue back...
QuoteNo, my post does not imply racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Racism exists everywhere and probably will to some degree forever, since human beings are inherently bigoted towards others for all manner of reasons. Clearly though Barack Obama couldn't have been President if America was truly a racist place. Sadiq Khan couldn't have made it in America so that he could now own Fulham. LeBron James couldn't be on a path to billionaire status if our way of life and laws were racist. And Minneapolis would have never hired an Asian, Hispanic, and black cop to arrest George Floyd that day.
As you know, racism isn't just a white on black thing, but can be a black on white thing, a white on white thing, so on and so forth. BLM is itself arguably a racist movement or at the very least a movement that abides racists. I can't support that and will stand up to those who do. Do black lives matter though? Yes, most definitely.
Please tell me it's not true, Sadiq Khan doesn't own Fulham now does he?
Quote from: Andy S on September 24, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
How many people took notice of the slogan at our ground " Kick Racism Out Of Football" ? How many of us were aware that there was racism in football? Before the BLM protest fades to nothing the next part of making things happen needs to be done. We cannot undo history and neither should we try. Ripping statues down is no good but erecting new ones of black hero's should be done. Watford should erect a statue of John Barns and Luther Blisset. There is also Arther Wharton one of the first players to play in England. A brilliant athlete by all accounts Then we have Benjamin Odefe the first black player to represent England at any level. His statue should be erected at Wembley next to that of Bobby Moore.
Laurie Cunningham of West Brom was the first black player to represent England at the top level. So instead of going down on one knee some of these black footballers should dip into their pockets and fund some decent statues so that we can remember these players for future generations. Or at least get supporters on board
Should there also be a statue of the first Asian player? And the first homosexual player? What about the first muslim player?
And there I was thinking the whole point of kicking racism (and discrimination in general) out of football was to recognise one on merits rather than superficial characteristics.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:00:59 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 25, 2020, 05:15:28 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:53:55 AM
Quote from: WolverineFFC on September 25, 2020, 03:01:52 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 24, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
One did, he lost his football career over it. I respect him for what he chose to sacrifice and the symbolism he was trying to invoke. The fact that so many Americans did not either understand or chose to demonize his actions was upsetting to me. But it was in line with the status quo. You either had to be either ignorant or have your head in the sand to not realize these things were occurring in the United States.
Kneeling before each game now seems opportunistic on the part of professional leagues. Much like a moment of silence before a game, doing it as they returned seemed legitimate, not so much now. I respect QPR's statement and believe it is correct. If a player wants to kneel, sing, put their arm over their heart during an anthem, more power to them. Otherwise, it is time to start looking for better, more effective ways to invoke true change.
That is absolutely not true. He wasn't a good enough quarterback and his play ran him out of the league. And now he's profiting because of the corporate use of BLM. Nike pays him millions to endorse their stuff. CK is just a poseur who is profiting from pretending to be a black radical of the 60s.
What is ignorant is trying to say black people don't have equal rights or are lesser than in America. That hasn't been the case for years. What is going on today is about profit and political power. It's quite laughable but for the fact that it pays big time for someone like Kaepernick who is a pretty face for corporations to profit off of. Hopefully this is the halcyon days of critical race theorists, because they are bane to all human beings.
I may be wrong...but your post implies that you think racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Am I correct in that assumption?
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
No, my post does not imply racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Racism exists everywhere and probably will to some degree forever, since human beings are inherently bigoted towards others for all manner of reasons. Clearly though Barack Obama couldn't have been President if America was truly a racist place. Sadiq Khan couldn't have made it in America so that he could now own Fulham. LeBron James couldn't be on a path to billionaire status if our way of life and laws were racist. And Minneapolis would have never hired an Asian, Hispanic, and black cop to arrest George Floyd that day.
As you know, racism isn't just a white on black thing, but can be a black on white thing, a white on white thing, so on and so forth. BLM is itself arguably a racist movement or at the very least a movement that abides racists. I can't support that and will stand up to those who do. Do black lives matter though? Yes, most definitely.
Good post...but please explain how BLM abides racism. I'm sure there are some racist minorities using it to push an agenda...but surely that's a vast minority itself.
And while your listing of successful minorities is correct...the BLM movement is meant to drive home a WORLD problem...not just an American problem.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on September 25, 2020, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: Andy S on September 24, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
How many people took notice of the slogan at our ground " Kick Racism Out Of Football" ? How many of us were aware that there was racism in football? Before the BLM protest fades to nothing the next part of making things happen needs to be done. We cannot undo history and neither should we try. Ripping statues down is no good but erecting new ones of black hero's should be done. Watford should erect a statue of John Barns and Luther Blisset. There is also Arther Wharton one of the first players to play in England. A brilliant athlete by all accounts Then we have Benjamin Odefe the first black player to represent England at any level. His statue should be erected at Wembley next to that of Bobby Moore.
Laurie Cunningham of West Brom was the first black player to represent England at the top level. So instead of going down on one knee some of these black footballers should dip into their pockets and fund some decent statues so that we can remember these players for future generations. Or at least get supporters on board
Should there also be a statue of the first Asian player? And the first homosexual player? What about the first muslim player?
And there I was thinking the whole point of kicking racism (and discrimination in general) out of football was to recognise one on merits rather than superficial characteristics.
Another good post. Who, that supports the BLM movement, would disagree with anything you just posted?
I don't see a conflict.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 24, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
A ton of people, unfortunately.
Regarding the athletes, a ton of them HAVE given their time, effort and money to combat racism. The NBA players boycotted for three days and were met with criticism from a large percentage of the population. They were told they were virtue signaling.
As a result of the boycott, all 30 NBA teams will be opening their arenas as polling locations for the upcoming election. This will mostly benefit African-American communities whose voting rights were being suppressed. They are affecting change. They aren't responsible for fixing policies just because the government is incapable or unwilling to do so. The statement that they are just posturing is either uninformed or disingenuous.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:00:59 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 25, 2020, 05:15:28 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:53:55 AM
Quote from: WolverineFFC on September 25, 2020, 03:01:52 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 24, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
One did, he lost his football career over it. I respect him for what he chose to sacrifice and the symbolism he was trying to invoke. The fact that so many Americans did not either understand or chose to demonize his actions was upsetting to me. But it was in line with the status quo. You either had to be either ignorant or have your head in the sand to not realize these things were occurring in the United States.
Kneeling before each game now seems opportunistic on the part of professional leagues. Much like a moment of silence before a game, doing it as they returned seemed legitimate, not so much now. I respect QPR's statement and believe it is correct. If a player wants to kneel, sing, put their arm over their heart during an anthem, more power to them. Otherwise, it is time to start looking for better, more effective ways to invoke true change.
That is absolutely not true. He wasn't a good enough quarterback and his play ran him out of the league. And now he's profiting because of the corporate use of BLM. Nike pays him millions to endorse their stuff. CK is just a poseur who is profiting from pretending to be a black radical of the 60s.
What is ignorant is trying to say black people don't have equal rights or are lesser than in America. That hasn't been the case for years. What is going on today is about profit and political power. It's quite laughable but for the fact that it pays big time for someone like Kaepernick who is a pretty face for corporations to profit off of. Hopefully this is the halcyon days of critical race theorists, because they are bane to all human beings.
I may be wrong...but your post implies that you think racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Am I correct in that assumption?
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No, my post does not imply racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Racism exists everywhere and probably will to some degree forever, since human beings are inherently bigoted towards others for all manner of reasons. Clearly though Barack Obama couldn't have been President if America was truly a racist place. Sadiq Khan couldn't have made it in America so that he could now own Fulham. LeBron James couldn't be on a path to billionaire status if our way of life and laws were racist. And Minneapolis would have never hired an Asian, Hispanic, and black cop to arrest George Floyd that day.
As you know, racism isn't just a white on black thing, but can be a black on white thing, a white on white thing, so on and so forth. BLM is itself arguably a racist movement or at the very least a movement that abides racists. I can't support that and will stand up to those who do. Do black lives matter though? Yes, most definitely.
Pointing out exceptions to racism doesn't mean racism in America isn't a problem. Anyone that does the bare minimum amount of research can see that there are systems in place here designed to ensure minorities are lower status than white people. We have a president that openly supports racist practices. As a country, we've improved greatly when it comes to racism at an individual level but there are widespread systemic issues still in place. Those systems are particularly harmful to African-Americans.
Quote from: Fulham Joe on September 25, 2020, 04:39:41 PM
QuoteNo, my post does not imply racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Racism exists everywhere and probably will to some degree forever, since human beings are inherently bigoted towards others for all manner of reasons. Clearly though Barack Obama couldn't have been President if America was truly a racist place. Sadiq Khan couldn't have made it in America so that he could now own Fulham. LeBron James couldn't be on a path to billionaire status if our way of life and laws were racist. And Minneapolis would have never hired an Asian, Hispanic, and black cop to arrest George Floyd that day.
As you know, racism isn't just a white on black thing, but can be a black on white thing, a white on white thing, so on and so forth. BLM is itself arguably a racist movement or at the very least a movement that abides racists. I can't support that and will stand up to those who do. Do black lives matter though? Yes, most definitely.
Please tell me it's not true, Sadiq Khan doesn't own Fulham now does he?
Lol. You got me. Shahid Khan.
Quote from: BM1090 on September 25, 2020, 05:19:20 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:00:59 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 25, 2020, 05:15:28 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:53:55 AM
Quote from: WolverineFFC on September 25, 2020, 03:01:52 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 24, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
One did, he lost his football career over it. I respect him for what he chose to sacrifice and the symbolism he was trying to invoke. The fact that so many Americans did not either understand or chose to demonize his actions was upsetting to me. But it was in line with the status quo. You either had to be either ignorant or have your head in the sand to not realize these things were occurring in the United States.
Kneeling before each game now seems opportunistic on the part of professional leagues. Much like a moment of silence before a game, doing it as they returned seemed legitimate, not so much now. I respect QPR's statement and believe it is correct. If a player wants to kneel, sing, put their arm over their heart during an anthem, more power to them. Otherwise, it is time to start looking for better, more effective ways to invoke true change.
That is absolutely not true. He wasn't a good enough quarterback and his play ran him out of the league. And now he's profiting because of the corporate use of BLM. Nike pays him millions to endorse their stuff. CK is just a poseur who is profiting from pretending to be a black radical of the 60s.
What is ignorant is trying to say black people don't have equal rights or are lesser than in America. That hasn't been the case for years. What is going on today is about profit and political power. It's quite laughable but for the fact that it pays big time for someone like Kaepernick who is a pretty face for corporations to profit off of. Hopefully this is the halcyon days of critical race theorists, because they are bane to all human beings.
I may be wrong...but your post implies that you think racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Am I correct in that assumption?
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
No, my post does not imply racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Racism exists everywhere and probably will to some degree forever, since human beings are inherently bigoted towards others for all manner of reasons. Clearly though Barack Obama couldn't have been President if America was truly a racist place. Sadiq Khan couldn't have made it in America so that he could now own Fulham. LeBron James couldn't be on a path to billionaire status if our way of life and laws were racist. And Minneapolis would have never hired an Asian, Hispanic, and black cop to arrest George Floyd that day.
As you know, racism isn't just a white on black thing, but can be a black on white thing, a white on white thing, so on and so forth. BLM is itself arguably a racist movement or at the very least a movement that abides racists. I can't support that and will stand up to those who do. Do black lives matter though? Yes, most definitely.
Pointing out exceptions to racism doesn't mean racism in America isn't a problem. Anyone that does the bare minimum amount of research can see that there are systems in place here designed to ensure minorities are lower status than white people. We have a president that openly supports racist practices. As a country, we've improved greatly when it comes to racism at an individual level but there are widespread systemic issues still in place. Those systems are particularly harmful to African-Americans.
I completely disagree with you. That isn't true all. Trump is probably the least racist President in US history. I get it that a lot of people say he's racist, but they've got nothing on him that is in fact racist. It is just political nonsense.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 23, 2020, 04:46:48 AM
When 45% of Americans are happy to take the knee but don't bother to take less than 30 minutes to vote every four years, I think its unfair to single out the problem as "Trump supporters that do vote that also refuse to take the knee because they believe in the opposite policies to solving America's problems to the Democrats". Democrat policies like "reducing gun ownership to reduce gun crime", which seems logically for anyone growing up in Fulham (like me), might not make sense to a decent citizen growing up in Wisconsin, but not voting is most often just laziness and not caring.
The only one more stupid than a gun nut is someone who thinks that
any gun regulation will affect the crime rate.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 25, 2020, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:00:59 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 25, 2020, 05:15:28 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 25, 2020, 04:53:55 AM
Quote from: WolverineFFC on September 25, 2020, 03:01:52 AM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on September 24, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 24, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
I don't have a problem with qpr not taking a knee if they don't take action if one of their players chooses to individually do so prior to kick off. Imo
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Amen. I think the protests have been a great failure or mistake. First, I don't think the movement is seriously warranted, which many people seem to realize. Second, millionaire athletes needed to have sacrificed much more, like their millions, if they wanted to really try and affect some kind of change if they knew what that actually was, but instead they're just posturing, continue to play and take their pay. And I am someone who also definitely supports the statement: black lives matter. Who truly doesn't in America in 2020?
One did, he lost his football career over it. I respect him for what he chose to sacrifice and the symbolism he was trying to invoke. The fact that so many Americans did not either understand or chose to demonize his actions was upsetting to me. But it was in line with the status quo. You either had to be either ignorant or have your head in the sand to not realize these things were occurring in the United States.
Kneeling before each game now seems opportunistic on the part of professional leagues. Much like a moment of silence before a game, doing it as they returned seemed legitimate, not so much now. I respect QPR's statement and believe it is correct. If a player wants to kneel, sing, put their arm over their heart during an anthem, more power to them. Otherwise, it is time to start looking for better, more effective ways to invoke true change.
That is absolutely not true. He wasn't a good enough quarterback and his play ran him out of the league. And now he's profiting because of the corporate use of BLM. Nike pays him millions to endorse their stuff. CK is just a poseur who is profiting from pretending to be a black radical of the 60s.
What is ignorant is trying to say black people don't have equal rights or are lesser than in America. That hasn't been the case for years. What is going on today is about profit and political power. It's quite laughable but for the fact that it pays big time for someone like Kaepernick who is a pretty face for corporations to profit off of. Hopefully this is the halcyon days of critical race theorists, because they are bane to all human beings.
I may be wrong...but your post implies that you think racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Am I correct in that assumption?
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
No, my post does not imply racism is no longer a thing anywhere. Racism exists everywhere and probably will to some degree forever, since human beings are inherently bigoted towards others for all manner of reasons. Clearly though Barack Obama couldn't have been President if America was truly a racist place. Sadiq Khan couldn't have made it in America so that he could now own Fulham. LeBron James couldn't be on a path to billionaire status if our way of life and laws were racist. And Minneapolis would have never hired an Asian, Hispanic, and black cop to arrest George Floyd that day.
As you know, racism isn't just a white on black thing, but can be a black on white thing, a white on white thing, so on and so forth. BLM is itself arguably a racist movement or at the very least a movement that abides racists. I can't support that and will stand up to those who do. Do black lives matter though? Yes, most definitely.
Good post...but please explain how BLM abides racism. I'm sure there are some racist minorities using it to push an agenda...but surely that's a vast minority itself.
And while your listing of successful minorities is correct...the BLM movement is meant to drive home a WORLD problem...not just an American problem.
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First, the BLM movement, especially the organized and corporate/big money sponsored part, is not about any world problem. It is simply about obtaining/maintaining wealth and power in the United States, and secondly in Britain and other western countries. I get that you and many others support the generic BLM language about a racist free world. Who doesn't? Again, who doesn't support the statement that black lives matter in the United States?
BLM, on the other hand, openly supports racism when it expressly criticizes people because they are not black. This rhetoric is all too common among BLM supporters. What do they not call white supremacist today? Why are they trying to publicly and professionally shame people who express disagreement with them? Fighting racism with racism is stupid all the way round. This is why I support QPR's not wanting to take a knee. Supporting BLM is much more complicated then just believing in a world without racism.
I thought QPR were based in shepherds bush
[
Editing so the thread isn't super long.
I just think we're talking about two different groups...both falling under the BLM umbrella. I don't have a problem with or without QPR taking a knee. I assume you don't have a problem with either choice either...as long as the symbolism isn't driven by an agenda more than anti racism.
We'll agree to be on the same side, yet feel differently about the movement. 082.gif
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 25, 2020, 06:26:17 PM
[
Editing so the thread isn't super long.
I just think we're talking about two different groups...both falling under the BLM umbrella. I don't have a problem with or without QPR taking a knee. I assume you don't have a problem with either choice either...as long as the symbolism isn't driven by an agenda more than anti racism.
We'll agree to be on the same side, yet feel differently about the movement. 082.gif
I think you're spot on and totally fair. We're two people, Americans, who follow Fulham. More power to both us. 082.gif