Story is written up on several news feeds.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/feb/08/referee-mike-dean-reports-death-threats-to-police-and-asks-for-weekend-off (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/feb/08/referee-mike-dean-reports-death-threats-to-police-and-asks-for-weekend-off)
I am posting this not to start a debate about Mr. Dean giving the red card or whether it was warranted. That is irrelevant and mute point. Rather I am posting this more for myself as a way to express just how angry this made me upon hearing about the death threats to Mr. Dean and the abuse that has been sent to his family via their personal social media accounts is absolutely disgusting and unwarranted.
I will never understand a person who takes sports and or their love for their sports team so far that they would threaten another human being for a decision they made while officiating a sports event. I hope the authorities catch anyone who has sent Mr. Dean and his family death threats or abuse and that they are prosecuted and given a lifetime ban from all sporting events or venues.
While it is inexcusable under any circumstances I find it even more baffling that it would result from a last-minute red card that didn't ultimately impact the scoreline. It's not as if Mike Dean has royally stitched them up or cost them points that could be the difference between relegation and survival.
I felt for Dean at the time. After the criticism he had received a few days earlier, the last thing he needed was to have to make a contentious call. And there he was with just one minute of stoppage time remaining and the game was all but over. He'd refereed it well for 94 minutes. And then Soucek catches Mitrovic in the face with his elbow...
Any reasonable person will rightly condemn the threats that have been made towards Dean and his family. It patently crosses the line of acceptability. Maybe the one good thing to come out of this extreme act will be that other supporters, of all clubs, will examine the speed with, manner in, and extent to which they express their own displeasure with referees and redefine (for the better) what they, themselves, consider to be an acceptable way to behave towards the 'man in the middle'.
Shows what we have come to.
But this, and the racist abuse of players, is all to do with the rise of social media, where it seems possible to make these kinds of threats and get away with it.
The publicity given to the threats maybe doesn't help, but encourages the kind of sad people who do this sort of thing.
But i don't think these threats should be ignored either, though it's mostly keyboard warriors, who often wouldn't say boo to a goose if the person they'd abused confronted them.
But we have an unacceptable level of abuse of players and officials today, just listen to a phone in or look at a fan forum.
Everyone involved in football seems under a microscope, and a player can't make a mistake in a game with fans calling for him to be sold in the morning - and fans of the most successful clubs are often the worse, similarly managers and officials.
But threatening someone life, and their family's safety is definitely out of order., but, sadly, we don't see that as that unusual these days for anyone in the public eye.
But it's a problem that has spread into football from wider society, enabled by the internet.
Should social media sites do more to make it possible for culprits for abusive messages to be traced and prosecuted? as called for by some players .
Though, I think social media companies are unwilling to take such measures which would entail more personal information required from users of their products, and even then could be hard to enforce.
Its a game. Hardly worth threatening someone doing his job. This is whats wrong with football supporters these days.
When we lost 4-1 away to Southampton , October 1976 , didn't the referee, Les Shapter , receive death threats for sending George Best off ?
on the plus side - with advances in technology - all the dimwits typing racist/threatening posts can be caught and encouraged to learn how their actions are so hurtful - its too easy for me to call for the lynch mob when what these idiots really need is an education - if they still refuse after that - then they should be treated like such and served ASBOS, digitally monitored and barred from ALL football matches for life
Quote from: RaySmith on February 09, 2021, 03:49:37 AM
But this, and the racist abuse of players, is all to do with the rise of social media, where it seems possible to make these kinds of threats and get away with it.
I think this is arguable either way. In the past, some bloke walking into a pub after the game saying to his mates "tell you what, I'd murder that bloody ref" wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Now that sort of thing gets typed on Twitter, instead of said in the pub, and it's treated as a death threat, incitement to violence, etc. A "death threat" used to mean someone had gone out of their way to seek out the target's address or home phone number, then written to or phoned them, directly threatening their life. I don't know exactly what was written here but think we have to be cautious about treating misguided comments on Twitter the same way.
IMO it also isn't helped by the likes of Zamora and Jamie Redknapp in the studio making faces like their cat had just been run over and indignantly decrying the decision, whipping West Ham fans into a frenzy about this travesty. Whatever you think about the decision, it's clearly divided fans and even the ref community, with Dean and the VAR ref thinking it was a red but then another panel of refs overturning it on Monday. So the studio team should be exercising a bit of self-control and neutrality IMO. If they'd have just said something like "that's a tough decision, I can see where the ref's coming from but it seems harsh", would the death threats have followed?
I can remember police escorts for referees from Craven Cottage long before the internet was even a thought in someone's head. People get angry with officialdom and so what's new?
It was a questionable call which could have gone either way. But death threats are simply inexcusable, personally I cannot fathom the minds and emotions of numpties who think this is remotely acceptable.
I also think this is just one more small argument towards forcing the social media companies to do much, much more to control the content of their platforms. Threats of violence, racism, misogyny, bullying, stalking and the like have been far too prevalent on social media platforms for far too long. Meanwhile these companies make vast profits for their owners and billionaires out of ordinary employees. Nothing inherently wrong with that but divert a few dollars into better content control.
I kind of get Statto's point, but maybe it's more serious than say a throw-away remark made on something like this forum, or even Twitter. Were the threats made directly to him and/or his family? In which case they are not trivial. I would say these are criminal acts. I once went to hear a Premier League ref talk at a Surrey refs meeting. I remember him saying one of the worst aspects of the job was the abuse received outside the game by family members. It's not funny or trivial and it's sad that there are people amongst us who commit such acts.
The article states these were direct threats to the ref on his personal account not just comments on general social media. So forget the loose comments in the pub analogy this is serious.
Essential the culprits are traced and harshly dealt with in order to protect the ref. but also to save the good name of football for all our benefits.
I agree with OP it's appalling behaviour i refereed from 1967 through to 1974 and when a packed up I was relieved of any abuse I got , and that wasnt the reason I packed up . It was as shown on here a very difficult decision right or wrong the subsequent barrage of abuse has no place .
It is the reason why people do not want to become referees. It is seen on a Sunday morning in park football. When my son played one ref who often gave dubious decisions usually turned up with his wife and German Shepard dog.
The thing is football is a competitive sport. People take it very seriously. That is why VAR was introduced at the top level as well as goal line technology
Quote from: Dr Know on February 09, 2021, 08:02:02 AM
When we lost 4-1 away to Southampton , October 1976 , didn't the referee, Les Shapter , receive death threats for sending George Best off ?
The difference between then and now is that then it took some effort to send a death threat and the chance of total anonymity was less. These days, SM has become a tool for idiots to instantly, with very little effort or time expended, flex their keyboard muscles and be protected by some level of anonymity and/or separation.
Quote from: Logicalman on February 10, 2021, 10:43:16 AM
The difference between then and now is that then it took some effort to send a death threat and the chance of total anonymity was less. These days, SM has become a tool for idiots to instantly, with very little effort or time expended, flex their keyboard muscles and be protected by some level of anonymity and/or separation.
Really?
If I wanted to send a death threat without being caught, I'd do it the old fashioned way. Latex gloves and a typewriter, stick it an envelope (sellotape on the flap rather than licking it of course) and take it to a post box not covered by CCTV.
If I wanted to get caught, then I'd just do it the modern way from a Twitter account linked to my personal email and IP address.
Quote from: Statto on February 10, 2021, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on February 10, 2021, 10:43:16 AM
The difference between then and now is that then it took some effort to send a death threat and the chance of total anonymity was less. These days, SM has become a tool for idiots to instantly, with very little effort or time expended, flex their keyboard muscles and be protected by some level of anonymity and/or separation.
If I wanted to send a death threat without being caught, I'd do it the old fashioned way. Latex gloves and a typewriter, stick it an envelope (sellotape on the flap rather than licking it of course) and take it to a post box not covered by CCTV.
Got any tips for disposing of a body? :033:
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on February 10, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: Statto on February 10, 2021, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on February 10, 2021, 10:43:16 AM
The difference between then and now is that then it took some effort to send a death threat and the chance of total anonymity was less. These days, SM has become a tool for idiots to instantly, with very little effort or time expended, flex their keyboard muscles and be protected by some level of anonymity and/or separation.
If I wanted to send a death threat without being caught, I'd do it the old fashioned way. Latex gloves and a typewriter, stick it an envelope (sellotape on the flap rather than licking it of course) and take it to a post box not covered by CCTV.
Got any tips for disposing of a body? :033:
I hear the best thing to do is feed them to pigs. You got to starve the pigs for a few days, then the sight of a chopped-up body will look like curry to a pisshead. You gotta shave the heads of your victims, and pull the teeth out for the sake of the piggies' digestion. You could do this afterwards, of course, but you don't want to go sievin' through pig ****, now do you? They will go through bone like butter. You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute. Hence the expression, "as greedy as a pig."
Quote from: RufusBrevettatemyhamster on February 10, 2021, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on February 10, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: Statto on February 10, 2021, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on February 10, 2021, 10:43:16 AM
The difference between then and now is that then it took some effort to send a death threat and the chance of total anonymity was less. These days, SM has become a tool for idiots to instantly, with very little effort or time expended, flex their keyboard muscles and be protected by some level of anonymity and/or separation.
If I wanted to send a death threat without being caught, I'd do it the old fashioned way. Latex gloves and a typewriter, stick it an envelope (sellotape on the flap rather than licking it of course) and take it to a post box not covered by CCTV.
Got any tips for disposing of a body? :033:
I hear the best thing to do is feed them to pigs. You got to starve the pigs for a few days, then the sight of a chopped-up body will look like curry to a pisshead. You gotta shave the heads of your victims, and pull the teeth out for the sake of the piggies' digestion. You could do this afterwards, of course, but you don't want to go sievin' through pig poo, now do you? They will go through bone like butter. You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute. Hence the expression, "as greedy as a pig."
You mean as per Alan (Brick Top) Ford then? :005:
One of my favorite quotes that one.
Back to my original OP, there are major differences between threatening a ref at a match in the heat of the moment or in a pub after a match verse, going online and seeking out the ref and his or her families personal online accounts.
The major difference to me is a couple of things. One, the person making the threats has used a platform that can reach millions and inspire other idiots to join in and amplify the incident. Two, these people making said threats have done so not only to the ref but extended them to his immediate family for everyone online to see.
Simple case for me of people utterly not understanding how the game is both played and officiated. Nothing is perfect but this kind of thing could stop refs from referring at all. Then no matches will be played.
I've not heard of Ivan Tony before I read this thread.
He's sure had some clubs before arriving at Brentford
For me, there are two things at play.
1 Social media definitely enables this sort of thing in way that wasn't available in the past, with blokes venting to their mates in the pub after a game, when noone else would hear it apart from said mates, and maybe a view bystanders.
Then everyone would go home and sleep it off, and the comments forgotten, or only half remembered by the people concerned.
2 Indicative of a level of division, lack of respect and abuse in society, that didn't exist before.
The internet and social media just enables this, i a way that wasn't available before.
Also, its untrue that people can't be anonymous on social media.
It's probably the saddest, most inadequate ones who get caught, while others, more astute, have ways of covering their tracks.
Though Ian Wright and other players have said, that social media companies don't do enough to catch perpetrators.