Apparently turned down large contract offer.
Feels like a real kick in the teeth to the club
https://twitter.com/tombarclay_/status/1455566138100883461
If so, no more gametime.
He`s not comitted to the club.
If so, no more gametime.
He`s not comitted to the club.
Crap news. Will be interesting who briefed this, Fulham to put more pressure on him, or his team to start the queue for his services.
I defend the Khans a lot, but the fact history has kept repeating itself on this one issue is not a good look.
Though I actually think you only stop playing him if he properly downs tools/isn't interested. Promotion is more valuable than Carvalho and secondly, if he does go to an English club and it goes to arbitration, you want as much evidence as possible so we get a Sessegnon type figure for him.
edit - though one thing I do fear is if one of the big European clubs comes in for him, in which case we get nothing.
Quote from: sarvenpa on November 02, 2021, 04:17:15 PM
If so, no more gametime.
He`s not comitted to the club.
Disagree completely! No reason to believe that Carvalho will be any less committed than our other players who are out of contract at the end of the season.
Play him and his performances should help us get automatic promotion. At least there is then a slight chance he may stay with us next season as a Premier League player.
No more gametime and he will leave at the end of the season 100% - and we remove one of our best players from the equation from now until then.
OK so he doesn't want us then I guess he has to go, lets call bids in and get some big offers in quickly that will enable ustospend early in the window.
We don't know and probably never will what this increased offer has been. My guess is its a very good one. If so, the lad, it would seem wants a big move. We'll let's cash in, never play someone who's heart is not in the game/team. Let's be fair, we've done pretty well recently without him.
Wow, the lack of loyalty is amazing really.
Appreciate he might not be a fan etc but he's been with us for years, played for our youth teams, had a main role on the First XI this season. What more can he want?
It's not as if he'll go to a Liverpool/Dortmund and play week in week out.
Really poor from him and who's advising him. I'd try and sell him for £5-10m in January and get rid.
Real shame.
He shouldn't even make the bench from here on .
Give time to youngsters who want to be with us
Sick of this behaviour
Why do we have an academy I wonder?
Brentford gave up and look at them now.
Wasn't it previously reported that he was waiting to change agent in January?
Quote from: Lordedmundo on November 02, 2021, 04:25:00 PM
Quote from: sarvenpa on November 02, 2021, 04:17:15 PM
If so, no more gametime.
He`s not comitted to the club.
Disagree completely! No reason to believe that Carvalho will be any less committed than our other players who are out of contract at the end of the season.
Play him and his performances should help us get automatic promotion. At least there is then a slight chance he may stay with us next season as a Premier League player.
No more gametime and he will leave at the end of the season 100% - and we remove one of our best players from the equation from now until then.
No
Let him train on his own
No shop window
No development for him!
To hell with the greedy little sod
We don't need him or anyone else who is ungrateful.
Compare and contrast with Mitro who signed a 5 year contract over the summer and will start next year when we are in the PL.
Why do we bother with an Academy?
Name one player who we developed who wasn't off when he had a chance.
Save the money for the transfer windows
At this moment in time it doesn't matter, Silva already has a section headache.
It is only one report. I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the club will go back with a tweaked offer. You don't necessarily take the first offer.
It doesn't look good but don't think we should hang him out to dry just yet. He is just a lad and probably reads all this stuff
If he is changing agents in January, why make him an offer now.
He's bound to turn it down until he's sorted.
Quote from: Stevieboy on November 02, 2021, 04:45:42 PM
If he is changing agents in January, why make him an offer now.
He's bound to turn it down until he's sorted.
Yeah, this was leaked by Fulham to put pressure on him.
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Anyone who says we shouldn't play him is a fool. He is one of our best players, and football is bigger than Fulham.
Bierith left for Arsenal and is starring for their U23 team and apparently Francois has also turned down his contract offer.
Drameh left for Leeds and now has a foot in the first team.
Tomorrow evening we will see Edun playing for Blackburn after a short away but we did release him.
All young products of our Academy
But one single player is, evening they think they are!!!!
Personally I got awful body language from his last game.
Throwing his arms up in the air when he lost the ball and not tracking back.
He's 18 and in his first few months of first team football, should be running after everything and giving his all week in week out to keep his place. Personally, I think he's a prima donna and if he won't stay then we shouldn't be begging him to sign. He will end up like the others playing on loan for East Fife as his career sizzles out.
Quote from: Radiowhite on November 02, 2021, 05:12:19 PM
Anyone who says we shouldn't play him is a fool. He is one of our best players, and football is bigger than Fulham.
I would say the issue is that the only thing now standing between Carvalho and riches beyond his wildest dreams, is the prospect of him picking up a bad injury between now and the end of the season. Given this, its unlikely that he would be putting any effort into his performances at all before his new big club contract is signed.
If we could get a performance out of him, then sure I would play him too, but I don't think its likely he wants to take any risk himself. If he is genuinely not signing, he may not want to play at all.
If he doesn't want to stay then good bye.
Thank God or someone that this never happened when the Maestro was coming through! :doh:
092.gif
He certainly has talent, is young ( maybe impressionable) and ambitious. It's a shame ( if the story is correct) that he wants to move on but I'm sure many would want the same if we were in Fabio's shoes. Personally I think his football career would benefit greatly if he stayed at Fulham but I guess money talks.
we should still play him. we need to get promoted this season and he will help us to do that!
Just my opinion and I guess I'm one of the crazy ones but, if the lad has had his head turns and is showing signs of not being bothered then I wouldn't have him on the bench. I'd give that spot to Jay Stansfield instead and give him the minutes and the experience.
I genuinely do not see the benefit of our academy any more.
Not toys out the pram, I've thought it for some time.
Unless there is some FFP benefit or tax rebate why do we continue with it?
We don't see many players come through and when they do they leave before striking a ball in earnest for us - Roberts, Elliot and now Carvalho.
Shut it down and save the money
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on November 02, 2021, 05:13:41 PM
Bierith left for Arsenal and is starring for their U23 team and apparently Francois has also turned down his contract offer.
Drameh left for Leeds and now has a foot in the first team.
Tomorrow evening we will see Edun playing for Blackburn after a short away but we did release him.
All young products of our Academy
True, and Harvey Elliott is doing very well of course. Dembele has also played often in the CL and even got a loan move to Atleti, although I'm not sure what happened to his time there after his collapse.
We can also point to Sess, although he did only go after a few seasons, so not quite the same as some of the others that may come to mind.
There's Patrick Roberts who to me was more had a fall from grace that came about due to his own body failing him and losing him his chances with injury (I may be wrong).
And then the odd case of Matt O'R, who is performing and casting admiring glances, after his leaving and reasons being all a bit odd and up for conjecture depending on who you believe.
It's obviously complicated, but there does seem to be this issue of u18/u23 progressing to the first team and staying. And this may only be anecdotal and because I'm a Fulham fan, but it doesn't half seem to happen here more than other clubs of late.
FWIW, the more Carvalho plays now, if he does leave on a free, the better for us as his price will be judged by tribunal. This is partly why, most believe, Harvey E was giving his run outs - to prove his worth and potential. If he is instrumental in promotion, even better.
Quote from: love4ffc on November 02, 2021, 05:36:17 PM
Just my opinion and I guess I'm one of the crazy ones but, if the lad has had his head turns and is showing signs of not being bothered then I wouldn't have him on the bench. I'd give that spot to Jay Stansfield instead and give him the minutes and the experience.
Totally agree with this. Marco only wanted players involved who are 100% committed to the cause. Which is why Zambo wasn't involved at the start of the season. If Carvalho wants out and has made this clear to the club then remove him from the first team. He's free to sign a pre contract with any club he likes in January. I'd like to see us go back one last time with an offer but if that's turned down again then we have to let it go. No one player is bigger then a football club. Shame there's so little loyalty in football anymore.
I think he's still waiting for a new agent, before putting pen to paper on a Fulham contract - if that isn't the case.....then play him to get promotion & say adiós
Seeya, sooner he's gone the better.
Quote from: Maidstone Lee on November 02, 2021, 05:48:16 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on November 02, 2021, 05:36:17 PM
Just my opinion and I guess I'm one of the crazy ones but, if the lad has had his head turns and is showing signs of not being bothered then I wouldn't have him on the bench. I'd give that spot to Jay Stansfield instead and give him the minutes and the experience.
Totally agree with this. Marco only wanted players involved who are 100% committed to the cause. Which is why Zambo wasn't involved at the start of the season. If Carvalho wants out and has made this clear to the club then remove him from the first team. He's free to sign a pre contract with any club he likes in January. I'd like to see us go back one last time with an offer but if that's turned down again then we have to let it go. No one player is bigger then a football club. Shame there's so little loyalty in football anymore.
:plus one:
Quote from: South Coast White on November 02, 2021, 05:14:18 PM
But one single player is, evening they think they are!!!!
What does that mean ?
At the end of the day, if the club has failed to secure a contract until it is too late, allowing him to leave on a free, they've managed it badly imho.
As a club we do this time and time again.
According to Tom Barclay(A Fulham fan by the way) of The Sun,who is a very good with his info,has said he was offered a substantial offer in the contract....And they want be going back.
If that is the case,bye bye and away you go,only want players here who are committed to the cause.
Quote from: joef on November 02, 2021, 05:45:39 PM
I genuinely do not see the benefit of our academy any more.
Not toys out the pram, I've thought it for some time.
Unless there is some FFP benefit or tax rebate why do we continue with it?
We don't see many players come through and when they do they leave before striking a ball in earnest for us - Roberts, Elliot and now Carvalho.
Shut it down and save the money
I 100% agree with this. We have done a terrible job of getting fees for our youth players. Only Sess and Roberts generated any type of fee, everyone else left for nothing. Southampton have been selling their youth players for massive fees for years, Chelsea are now doing the same and generating 100s of millions for the billion youth players they put out on loan and then sell.
Quote from: Maidstone Lee on November 02, 2021, 05:48:16 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on November 02, 2021, 05:36:17 PM
Just my opinion and I guess I'm one of the crazy ones but, if the lad has had his head turns and is showing signs of not being bothered then I wouldn't have him on the bench. I'd give that spot to Jay Stansfield instead and give him the minutes and the experience.
Totally agree with this. Marco only wanted players involved who are 100% committed to the cause. Which is why Zambo wasn't involved at the start of the season. If Carvalho wants out and has made this clear to the club then remove him from the first team. He's free to sign a pre contract with any club he likes in January. I'd like to see us go back one last time with an offer but if that's turned down again then we have to let it go. No one player is bigger then a football club. Shame there's so little loyalty in football anymore.
Zambo was involved at the start of the season, and made several appearances. Also, Carvalho is not free to sign a pre contract in January because he is several years too young to do that.
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on November 02, 2021, 05:13:41 PM
Bierith left for Arsenal and is starring for their U23 team and apparently Francois has also turned down his contract offer.
Drameh left for Leeds and now has a foot in the first team.
Tomorrow evening we will see Edun playing for Blackburn after a short away but we did release him.
All young products of our Academy
As already mentioned , our owners are wasting money with the academy, we should turn to poaching and cherry pick from other academies.
A club gives the lad all the training, growth, and time needed to hone his skills and then he drops us like a blind date - He will probably end up being a big name somewhere, but his best interest at only 18 would be to spend time with us, get promoted and play in the Prem and then leave.
I would bench and see to it that he is not rewarded for this bullpoo. It's a slap in the face to all of his teammates and the club. Bye bye!
It's a shame for us, but it doesn't make him a bad person deserving of lots of abuse. He is a seemingly fantastic player with ambitions above Fulham. A shame for us, but I can't blame him. In terms of loyalty, when did employers ever show any to employees? In which case, you can't expect loyalty back unfortunately.
If he has any sense, he will play very well for us in order to put himself in the shop window to attract the bigger offers; so yes if he's fit and plays well keep him in the first team squad
Quote from: Skatzoffc on November 02, 2021, 06:05:55 PM
At the end of the day, if the club has failed to secure a contract until it is too late, allowing him to leave on a free, they've managed it badly imho.
As a club we do this time and time again.
My thoughts too. He signed a 2-year contract May 2020, when he was 17., when we could have offered a 3-year deal. Maybe he only wanted to sign for two years, but in the scheme of things, it probably would've been easier to convince him to commit for 3 years then than it is to convince him to change his mind now.
Even then, we could have offered him a long-term deal last August, when he turned 18, and wasn't near the first team yet.
From the outside, it looks to me like we don't put any real faith in youngsters until they've broken through to the first team, and then act surprised when other clubs with bigger resources show interest, and disappointed that they want what's best for themselves, both of which seem incredibly naive. As if these players owe the club anything more than they've already given.
Quote from: Radiowhite on November 02, 2021, 05:12:19 PM
Anyone who says we shouldn't play him is a fool. He is one of our best players, and football is bigger than Fulham.
Not in my world
We should keep the academy going as frustrating as it is that these youngsters don't come through for us we still got, £25 mill for Sessegnon £10 million Roberts £7 million Elliot and probably around £5 million for Carvalho.
I wouldn't play him from here, in other circumstances maybe but we have the strongest championship squad possibly ever, playing well, top two, won four on the trot, TC is back... I would put him in the U21's
Quote from: Cookie6262 on November 02, 2021, 06:47:25 PM
We should keep the academy going as frustrating as it is that these youngsters don't come through for us we still got, £25 mill for Sessegnon £10 million Roberts £7 million Elliot and probably around £5 million for Carvalho.
I wouldn't play him from here, in other circumstances maybe but we have the strongest championship squad possibly ever, playing well, top two, won four on the trot, TC is back... I would put him in the U21's
Think I'm with you on that one. We can always dip into the loan market in Jan should we want to find a replacement. Sure there's a frustrated attacking midfielder in the Prem who would happily take a move to get minutes for a team pushing for promotion.
Quote from: PaulJ123 on November 02, 2021, 04:33:35 PM
Wow, the lack of loyalty is amazing really.
Appreciate he might not be a fan etc but he's been with us for years, played for our youth teams, had a main role on the First XI this season. What more can he want?
It's not as if he'll go to a Liverpool/Dortmund and play week in week out.
Really poor from him and who's advising him. I'd try and sell him for £5-10m in January and get rid.
Real shame.
He's a young player being asked to lock himself down to one team for multiple years. So what if he waits to see what his actual market value is?
He could still sign for Fulham and get more money.
Lets not pretend football clubs are loyal if it doesn't benefit the clubs.
I haven't seen a player be more loyal to team and country than Harry Kane. His club won't let him leave. United won't let Paul Pogba leave. Manchester United wouldn't let there 3rd string keeper go 2 seasons ago.
Football is an entertainment BUSINESS. If I loved playing for Fulham...and Chelsea came calling and were going to pay me twice as much...I'd weigh my options as long as I could. Its good business even if the club and fans don't like it.
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He doesn't have to lock himself down, he could sign a contract and ask for a non promotion clause put in or a relegation clause for next year if we were to go up etc etc
Put him on the market for sale in January and leave him to ruin his career.
The problem with putting him up for sale in January... if he has had his head turned by a certain club which is likely he will just turn everyone down and leave at the end of the season.
"Lets not pretend football clubs are loyal if it doesn't benefit the clubs."
Yes, Carvalho will have seen many teammates he grew up with let go, their dreams crushed- so he knows that clubs have no loyalty to players these days - they are just a valuable asset.
As said, it's surely in his interest to play well, if he wants to leave for a top club, and it's in our interests to use him while he is here, if he helps get us up.
So play him , but obviously not if he's not giving his all - Silva will be the judge of that.
Quote from: RaySmith on November 02, 2021, 07:45:58 PM
"Lets not pretend football clubs are loyal if it doesn't benefit the clubs."
Yes, Carvalho will have seen many teammates he grew up with let go, their dreams crushed- so he knows that clubs have no loyalty to players these days - they are just a valuable asset.
As said, it's surely in his interest to play well, if he wants to leave for a top club, and it's in our interests to use him while he is here, if he helps get us up.
So play him , but obviously not if he's not giving his all - Silva will be the judge of that.
What about any effect it has the rest of the squad or other players? How would BDR feel if he gets dropped for a player who has just stated he doesn't want to be at the club. Why risk upsetting the squad move him to the u21's and give his place on the bench to Stansfield
If he wants away then he isn't going to give 100% in a game for fear of getting injured. We don't need any passengers. Stick him back in the U23s.
you would think a big signing on fee and much higher wages and maybe a set release fee should be what he would want.I would assume all of those would be in his new contract.The main thing he should be thinking about is his career longevity at the highest level which in my opinion is staying with us for a while yet.Hopefully his new agent will see it this way but maybe not as they tend to be greedy bastards.
If he doesn't want to be at the club then he shouldn't play. If it's a case of he hasn't been offered the right contract yet then the manager should make the call to continue playing him or not.
To be honest this won't be the first time the club have failed to tie down one of our youngsters and it's very disappointing.
Goodbye and thanks for all your effort in the few matches that we watched you! Hope that the saying about the grass being greener.... doesn't come back to bite you!! I think we will be fine and manage without you!
The lad needs to do the decent & honourable thing & sign a 4 year contract with a fee arranged & a sell on clause. Saha & EVDS did this enabling us to get large fees.
He would be held in esteem rather that treated with contempt.
Quote from: RaySmith on November 02, 2021, 07:45:58 PM
"Lets not pretend football clubs are loyal if it doesn't benefit the clubs."
Yes, Carvalho will have seen many teammates he grew up with let go, their dreams crushed- so he knows that clubs have no loyalty to players these days - they are just a valuable asset.
As said, it's surely in his interest to play well, if he wants to leave for a top club, and it's in our interests to use him while he is here, if he helps get us up.
So play him , but obviously not if he's not giving his all - Silva will be the judge of that.
Sorry Ray, I disagree. Roberts and Elliott had every opportunity to stay with us, their choice that they left not Fulham's! I wish him well, hopefully he will get to play a few games next season with 1 of the more elite teams.
No fault can be levied at our management. You can lead a horse to water but you can´t make it drink. All our previous grass is greener prospects have been so badly advised. Tho only winners are their agents. They are just leeches.
I'm not blaming the club and nor do I think it would be helpful to close our academy (especially in the light of our enhanced training facilities). Obviously, if Fabio isn't going to commit his future to Fulham, then we would be best served if he would do a Sess and sign a new contract before going up for sale. That way we get a valuable transfer fee.
If Fabio doesn't want to do any of those things then, regrettably, I'd exclude him from the squad. As others have said FFC is a team and playing a wanna leave (no matter how good) is an insult to other players.
Apparently he's turned down 25k a week on a 4 year deal. Which is more than $5 million pounds not including bonus's which were substantial.
The loyalty thing goes both ways. We under the Khan's have immediately frozen out first team regulars after promotion with no attempt to give them a chance. We dicked around his mate O'Riley who is now starring at MK Dons after we forced him to train by himself for 9 months.
Football is a ruthless business. You look after number one I'm afraid. Whether we play him or not between now and the end of the season comes down to his attitude and desire to play for Fulham and commit to the cause. Any doubts and he doesn't even get in the match day squad in my view. If Marco is satisfied on his commitment desire and professionalism and wants to play him then I fully support that decision irrespective of whether or not he has signed a contract.
My gut feel having seen him on Saturday is that he is not overly interested- as somebody else said his body language was poor and he didn't respond at all to the chanting of his name from the Hammi end from what I saw and I was watching him specifically to try and read him.
It's a shame but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he is not even on the bench tomorrow.
This "Bosman ruling" fallout has given greed a free hand among players and agents. The old order of players being slaves to clubs (Charlie Mitten et al) was terrible admittedly, but then the abolition of the maximum wage, great at first (Johnny Haynes would have agreed !) then developed until today only the wealthy clubs can pay the monstrous wages at the upper end of the game.
The Bosman ruling has completed the situation where those players and agents have all the trump cards in holding clubs to ransom.
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on November 02, 2021, 05:46:31 PM
FWIW, the more Carvalho plays now, if he does leave on a free, the better for us as his price will be judged by tribunal. This is partly why, most believe, Harvey E was giving his run outs - to prove his worth and potential. If he is instrumental in promotion, even better.
That assumes he would be going to an English club. My gut feeling is he'll be off elsewhere in Europe so we'll get basically zilch!
Quote from: davew on November 02, 2021, 08:36:19 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on November 02, 2021, 07:45:58 PM
"Lets not pretend football clubs are loyal if it doesn't benefit the clubs."
Yes, Carvalho will have seen many teammates he grew up with let go, their dreams crushed- so he knows that clubs have no loyalty to players these days - they are just a valuable asset.
As said, it's surely in his interest to play well, if he wants to leave for a top club, and it's in our interests to use him while he is here, if he helps get us up.
So play him , but obviously not if he's not giving his all - Silva will be the judge of that.
Sorry Ray, absolute rubbish!! Roberts and Elliott had every opportunity to stay with us, their choice that they left not Fulham's! I wish him well, hopefully he will get to play a few games next season with 1 of the more elite teams.
I didn't mean the likes of Roberts and Eliot, but all the young players who don't make the grade, and are let go and have to pick up the pieces of their lives, when they probably dreamed of a pro career - they are often devastated: this is a fact.
But there's no room for sentiment in football, so why should we expect loyalty from Carvalho, much as we, and i myself, decry his attitude - these aren't my values, but pro football today in this country is all to do with money.
While he is contracted to play for us, we should use him - it's in his interests to play well. As for squad morale - well, the players might accept him if he produces the goods and helps get promotion, though he might not be that popular, though i suppose the players know the score re your, short, pro career, and how you'll soon be discarded by a club if you don't produce, so might sympathise - i don't know. - but he'd better produce though.
It's up to the manger to make these decisions, and obviously leave him out if he doesn't do his very best, or causes friction in the squad
I'm, only trying to take a detached look at the situation Dave, putting forward an opinion , yet you are abusive, although you misinterpreted my post!
Quote from: vancouver on November 02, 2021, 08:45:34 PM
We dicked around his mate O'Riley who is now starring at MK Dons after we forced him to train by himself for 9 months.
No, that's not quite it. He refused a contract, for non-financial reasons: lack of conviction that he'd get first team football. Brave move on his part, including not to settle straight for a contract anywhere else. Paid off -- he'll soon be playing in this division at least.
On Fabio, I too noticed the incident alluded to earlier in this thread, where he failed to receive a return pass when well placed near goal and threw up his arms theatrically to the H.End to indicate what a nitwit his teammate had been. If acting like that too often, it would be a disincentive to retain, sad to say. Silva has to be the best judge of that aspect however.
Looks like the kid holds the cards, but at least we are better placed in the goalmaking and scoring stakes than any rival this season, even in his absence.
So the rumours are that Real Madrid and Liverpool are both circling, for a player with less than a dozen games under his belt.
Fulham cannot complete with either side, in any respect so to blame the club is a pretty long stretch - especially having made the kid what sounds like a massive offer for a lad with his experience anyway.
It must a difficult for Academy players being told that they won't be getting a contract and let go and it's not a nice feeling for supporters when you see a class player just running his contract out. Fabio shone from a very early age, looking that extra special player and a real choker if he leaves. Other factors come in like being financially set up for life and an injury that could end a career. That could have happened to Elliot at Liverpool. as for Fabio i'll accept when I know he's going.
Quote from: vancouver on November 02, 2021, 08:45:34 PM
Apparently he's turned down 25k a week on a 4 year deal. Which is more than $5 million pounds not including bonus's which were substantial.
Isn't Patrick Roberts on £40k/week at Man City? I can see why he would think that commitment would be underselling his value over the coming years, even if that goes up with promotion.
It's a good thread this. Really interesting. It would be good if the club shared their challenges and how they measured academy outcomes - particularly if we are trying to establish ourselves as a Premiership club and stay there. If we can do that I really see the value far more than if we are yo- yooing as we are now - certainly in terms of retaining quality.
Brentford were a top end championship side with no big sell ins from their academy when they got shot - we are very different clubs and we mustn't loose sight of that. Is this something that the FST pick up with the club and seek a better understanding of for our fan base ? What are the mission vision and values of our academy - what represents success - how do we get better at retaining our talent ? If Fabio was exceptional 2 years ago why didn't we tie him down to a 5 year contract then ? Can we blame Parker for this mess ?
Quote from: Dunstable Fulham on November 02, 2021, 09:48:03 PM
If Fabio was exceptional 2 years ago why didn't we tie him down to a 5 year contract then ?
It's two years maximum at that age.
Quote from: Twig on November 02, 2021, 08:39:19 PM
I'm not blaming the club and nor do I think it would be helpful to close our academy (especially in the light of our enhanced training facilities). Obviously, if Fabio isn't going to commit his future to Fulham, then we would be best served if he would do a Sess and sign a new contract before going up for sale. That way we get a valuable transfer fee.
If Fabio doesn't want to do any of those things then, regrettably, I'd exclude him from the squad. As others have said FFC is a team and playing a wanna leave (no matter how good) is an insult to other players.
This is it in a nutshell - especially the point about being an insult to other players. . In order to create an integrated squad that is a real team you have to reward players who want to play for you and also demonstrate that a lack of commitment has consequences ( no matter how talented you are )
The truth is he doesn't deserve more than £25k a week at his age. He's played 5 games this season for us and shown real potential but that's it. We've all seen youngsters burst onto the scene and then fade. Robert's is a prime example of that. At least Dembele stayed for a few seasons and showed his class. He's not going to play at the bigger clubs, unless he joins a Everton or a West Ham, but even then he won't play much and why join them when we'll be in the PL next season. Being advised very poorly.
What will happen if he leaves: joins a big club, gets paid very well, spends one season on the bench, then the next 2 years on loan, then sold back to a championship side. How many times have we seen it.
Anyway rant over.
Quote from: b+w geezer on November 02, 2021, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: Dunstable Fulham on November 02, 2021, 09:48:03 PM
If Fabio was exceptional 2 years ago why didn't we tie him down to a 5 year contract then ?
It's two years maximum at that age.
thank you - that sort of information helps our fan base to understand- why didn't we do another 2 year contract at the last possible time ? Or did we ? If the latter is the case then that's a really good reason for reviewing what you put into a contract - I.E any subsequent contracts include large contract value/sell on clauses which we will benefit from.
I've seen u-turns before, but nothing to this extent.
A few weeks ago, this kid was the best player we've seen, our saviour, the one to lead us straight to the Premiership. Now he's not worthy of playing etc.
Please show me when there has been any loyalty in football over the last few years. Not many players play for the same team from the first to last and if they do, they're on a lot more money than we can offer. More and more nowadays, players will go where the money is.
If he wants to go, then he wants to go. Doesn't matter what the club say or do, it won't change his mind. We can't offer European football as it stands, we can't even offer top flight football (believe it or not, we can't even guarantee it for next year yet). He's young and naive and has an agent who will want to make as much money from him as possible.
None of this is new.
Quote from: b+w geezer on November 02, 2021, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: Dunstable Fulham on November 02, 2021, 09:48:03 PM
If Fabio was exceptional 2 years ago why didn't we tie him down to a 5 year contract then ?
It's two years maximum at that age.
As I understand it, it's "under three seasons" at that age, which means 2 full seasons plus whatever is left of the season in which the contract is signed. Which means we could have committed him until June 2023 in August 2020, and then from the 30th of that month we could have committed him for 4+ years because he would have turned 18.
Harry Wilson signed a 4 year deal with Liverpool in June 2018, when he was 21, for 60K a week.
He was 21 rather than 19, but he'd just had his 'breakthrough' scoring 7 goals in 13 Championship games for Hull, and was playing for Wales.
If the rumours of 25K a week thing is true, its frankly a **** deal for Carvalho as he could get a lot more somewhere else. It sucks for us fans, but seems massively short sighted by the club - as you'll have to spend a lot more money to sign someone of the necessary quality to replace him.
Quote from: itombomb on November 02, 2021, 10:26:53 PM
Harry Wilson signed a 4 year deal with Liverpool in June 2018, when he was 21, for 60K a week.
He was 21 rather than 19, but he'd just had his 'breakthrough' scoring 7 goals in 13 Championship games for Hull, and was playing for Wales.
If the rumours of 25K a week thing is true, its frankly a poo deal for Carvalho as he could get a lot more somewhere else. It sucks for us fans, but seems massively short sighted by the club - as you'll have to spend a lot more money to sign someone of the necessary quality to replace him.
I couldn't disagree more with this post. He's achieved nothing.. yet. He's shown real potential sure, but he's just turned 19 only a few weeks ago. He hasn't played a full season, or even half a season, in any professional league yet. In what world should he be on more than £25k a week. It's truly ridiculous, and if that's what football is now then the game will eventually die off for a whole multitude of reasons all of which I can't be bothered to go into now but mainly financial competition.
Quote from: Maidstone Lee on November 02, 2021, 04:13:06 PM
https://twitter.com/tombarclay_/status/1455566138100883461
Surely if that's the case he must already be in talks and have his future lined up. As things stand it looks like we're going up, so a good contract in a team which has a record of playing young players and giving them a chance as well as having given him everything so far and then the opportunity to play in the premiership. Seems strange to turn down a contract without an idea that something more is there.
He's changing agent so MAYBE he doesn't want to give his agent any more than what is already on the table. If that is the case he best inform the club, otherwise I am in agreement that he should be tossed, immediate removal from 1st team, strip his number, limbo time for him, example time for others.
Football is a mega-billion pound industry, which has little regard from employers, agents and employees for what fans call loyalty. I'm sorry if Carvalho leaves but certainly wouldn't blame him - who amongst us at age 19 would REALLY agree to £25k/week if elsewhere we were offered, say, £30k? Agreed, the morality of the sums talked about is questionable but when Arsenal scout and recruit a 4 year old, ethics have gone out of the window.
Quote from: LC on November 02, 2021, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: itombomb on November 02, 2021, 10:26:53 PM
Harry Wilson signed a 4 year deal with Liverpool in June 2018, when he was 21, for 60K a week.
He was 21 rather than 19, but he'd just had his 'breakthrough' scoring 7 goals in 13 Championship games for Hull, and was playing for Wales.
If the rumours of 25K a week thing is true, its frankly a poo deal for Carvalho as he could get a lot more somewhere else. It sucks for us fans, but seems massively short sighted by the club - as you'll have to spend a lot more money to sign someone of the necessary quality to replace him.
I couldn't disagree more with this post. He's achieved nothing.. yet. He's shown real potential sure, but he's just turned 19 only a few weeks ago. He hasn't played a full season, or even half a season, in any professional league yet. In what world should he be on more than £25k a week. It's truly ridiculous, and if that's what football is now then the game will eventually die off for a whole multitude of reasons all of which I can't be bothered to go into now but mainly financial competition.
In a world where he will get more than that somewhere else.
I'm not a huge fan of rampant capitalism and unchecked market forces myself, but the fact is whether or not he or any other player deserves exhorbitant wages, he will get more than that offer somewhere.
Quote from: itombomb on November 02, 2021, 11:52:04 PM
Quote from: LC on November 02, 2021, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: itombomb on November 02, 2021, 10:26:53 PM
Harry Wilson signed a 4 year deal with Liverpool in June 2018, when he was 21, for 60K a week.
He was 21 rather than 19, but he'd just had his 'breakthrough' scoring 7 goals in 13 Championship games for Hull, and was playing for Wales.
If the rumours of 25K a week thing is true, its frankly a poo deal for Carvalho as he could get a lot more somewhere else. It sucks for us fans, but seems massively short sighted by the club - as you'll have to spend a lot more money to sign someone of the necessary quality to replace him.
I couldn't disagree more with this post. He's achieved nothing.. yet. He's shown real potential sure, but he's just turned 19 only a few weeks ago. He hasn't played a full season, or even half a season, in any professional league yet. In what world should he be on more than £25k a week. It's truly ridiculous, and if that's what football is now then the game will eventually die off for a whole multitude of reasons all of which I can't be bothered to go into now but mainly financial competition.
In a world where he will get more than that somewhere else.
I'm not a huge fan of rampant capitalism and unchecked market forces myself, but the fact is whether or not he or any other player deserves exhorbitant wages, he will get more than that offer somewhere.
How much should the club be offering?
Quote from: itombomb on November 02, 2021, 11:52:04 PM
In a world where he will get more than that somewhere else.
I'm not a huge fan of rampant capitalism and unchecked market forces myself, but the fact is whether or not he or any other player deserves exhorbitant wages, he will get more than that offer somewhere.
Money may not be an issue.
Cavalho may simply be wanting to move to a 'big' club sooner rather than later. Doubtless, he already knows of some top P.L. and European clubs that will offer him a contract as soon as he is available.
Quote from: RaySmith on November 02, 2021, 09:11:16 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on November 02, 2021, 07:45:58 PM
Yes, Carvalho will have seen many teammates he grew up with let go, their dreams crushed - so he knows that clubs have no loyalty to players these days - they are just a valuable asset.
I didn't mean the likes of Roberts and Eliot, but all the young players who don't make the grade, and are let go and have to pick up the pieces of their lives, when they probably dreamed of a pro career - they are often devastated: this is a fact.
'...these days'?
Hasn't it always been this way?
These days, at least the Club does ensure that youngsters continue with their academic education so that they are not without other strings to their bow if they don't sign a professional contract.
And if a lad is released at age 17-or-18, in what sense has he been 'just a valuable asset'? While no fault of the player, the Club will have invested money in training him - money which ultimately yields no 'value' at all.
Quote from: Arthur on November 03, 2021, 04:23:16 AM
Quote from: itombomb on November 02, 2021, 11:52:04 PM
In a world where he will get more than that somewhere else.
I'm not a huge fan of rampant capitalism and unchecked market forces myself, but the fact is whether or not he or any other player deserves exorbitant wages, he will get more than that offer somewhere.
Money may not be an issue.
Cavalho may simply be wanting to move to a 'big' club sooner rather than later. Doubtless, he already knows of some top P.L. and European clubs that will offer him a contract as soon as he is available.
Fulham would be insane to offer Cavalho £100k per week, we could get three championship players for that price, but Liverpool could offer eight players (like Cavalho) £26m over five years knowing one will be worth £100m in four years, and the rest maybe worth £5m-£20m each.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 02, 2021, 06:14:06 PM
According to Tom Barclay(A Fulham fan by the way) of The Sun,who is a very good with his info,has said he was offered a substantial offer in the contract....And they want be going back.
If that is the case,bye bye and away you go,only want players here who are committed to the cause.
To add to this Barclay can only print certain information,not at this stage what the boys reasons for not signing are.
But apparently some gossip or real news or whatever,is once he heard Liverpool were interested,he wants to join his pal Elliot there.
Whether he has been told that Liverpool are interested or he has just put two and two together like the rest of us having just read it for himself.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 03, 2021, 05:09:55 AM
Quote from: Arthur on November 03, 2021, 04:23:16 AM
Quote from: itombomb on November 02, 2021, 11:52:04 PM
In a world where he will get more than that somewhere else.
I'm not a huge fan of rampant capitalism and unchecked market forces myself, but the fact is whether or not he or any other player deserves exorbitant wages, he will get more than that offer somewhere.
Money may not be an issue.
Cavalho may simply be wanting to move to a 'big' club sooner rather than later. Doubtless, he already knows of some top P.L. and European clubs that will offer him a contract as soon as he is available.
Fulham would be insane to offer Cavalho £100k per week, we could get three championship players for that price, but Liverpool could offer eight players (like Cavalho) £26m over five years knowing one will be worth £100m in four years, and the rest maybe worth £5m-£20m each.
I agree, if FFC have offered in the region of £25k pw that's pretty decent for a relatively untried youngster in the the 2nd tier of English football. If Carvalho turns such an offer down then so be it. Of course we could go up 2 or 3k to seal a deal but, quite rightly, we aren't going to offer him 50k (let alone 100k). Such figures would totally upset our club's wage structure, impact pay relativities and player morale and thereby potentially undermine our entire finances. No player is worth that gamble and certainly not a kid just out of the under 23's!
If he turns down our offer, whether it's £25k or even £30k pw it's because his head has been turned and he wants to go to a "big" club. In those circumstances the sooner he's gone the better so let's try our best to get a transfer fee for him in January (and good riddance).
Completely agree with the above post. At nineteen years old £25k/week (plus bonuses £2-4k) is going to buy him his first house, a nice car (probably won't even need a black box fitted like 99.9% of teenagers) and an array of dazzling young girls desperate to get on his arm. I would play him in the U23's and elevate Stanfield to the starting eleven.
Let's face it we haven't exactly missed him over the past few matches.
Just a thought on this. The story seems to have come from the club perspective. They obviously felt the need to go public.
That is quite rare as its normally the players agent putting out the for sale sign.
I guess the club is trying to force the issue one way or another
Quote from: RaySmith on November 02, 2021, 09:11:16 PM
Quote from: davew on November 02, 2021, 08:36:19 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on November 02, 2021, 07:45:58 PM
"Lets not pretend football clubs are loyal if it doesn't benefit the clubs."
Yes, Carvalho will have seen many teammates he grew up with let go, their dreams crushed- so he knows that clubs have no loyalty to players these days - they are just a valuable asset.
As said, it's surely in his interest to play well, if he wants to leave for a top club, and it's in our interests to use him while he is here, if he helps get us up.
So play him , but obviously not if he's not giving his all - Silva will be the judge of that.
Sorry Ray, absolute rubbish!! Roberts and Elliott had every opportunity to stay with us, their choice that they left not Fulham's! I wish him well, hopefully he will get to play a few games next season with 1 of the more elite teams.
I didn't mean the likes of Roberts and Eliot, but all the young players who don't make the grade, and are let go and have to pick up the pieces of their lives, when they probably dreamed of a pro career - they are often devastated: this is a fact.
But there's no room for sentiment in football, so why should we expect loyalty from Carvalho, much as we, and i myself, decry his attitude - these aren't my values, but pro football today in this country is all to do with money.
While he is contracted to play for us, we should use him - it's in his interests to play well. As for squad morale - well, the players might accept him if he produces the goods and helps get promotion, though he might not be that popular, though i suppose the players know the score re your, short, pro career, and how you'll soon be discarded by a club if you don't produce, so might sympathise - i don't know. - but he'd better produce though.
It's up to the manger to make these decisions, and obviously leave him out if he doesn't do his very best, or causes friction in the squad
I'm, only trying to take a detached look at the situation Dave, putting forward an opinion , yet you are abusive, although you misinterpreted my post!
Sorry Ray didn't mean to sound abusive and maybe I did misinterprate your post, sorry again! I picked up on the points about Clubs not being loyal to young players, in all walks of life many don't make the grade, I cannot see how Carvalho would be affected by what has happened to lesser talented players? Surely his career will be more at risk from joining a bigger club than at this stage of his career being 1 of our star players? I have edited my previous response to your posting.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 03, 2021, 07:29:44 AM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 02, 2021, 06:14:06 PM
According to Tom Barclay(A Fulham fan by the way) of The Sun,who is a very good with his info,has said he was offered a substantial offer in the contract....And they want be going back.
If that is the case,bye bye and away you go,only want players here who are committed to the cause.
To add to this Barclay can only print certain information,not at this stage what the boys reasons for not signing are.
But apparently some gossip or real news or whatever,is once he heard Liverpool were interested,he wants to join his pal Elliot there.
Whether he has been told that Liverpool are interested or he has just put two and two together like the rest of us having just read it for himself.
Nice to see you back Mince, hope you are ok?
One thing to consider in this, as we bemoan our lot, is that Roberts came to us from Wimbledon and Elliott from QPR.
We've signed lots of players for nothing to little too. Stansfield was poached.
So we do benefit from the same, as frustrating as it all is.
Quote from: 70sPimlico on November 03, 2021, 08:24:58 AM
Just a thought on this. The story seems to have come from the club perspective. They obviously felt the need to go public.
That is quite rare as its normally the players agent putting out the for sale sign.
I guess the club is trying to force the issue one way or another
Wouldn't be unusual for us.
Hope we make some money from his sale in January so we can re-invest
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on November 03, 2021, 09:33:58 AM
One thing to consider in this, as we bemoan our lot, is that Roberts came to us from Wimbledon and Elliott from QPR.
We've signed lots of players for nothing to little too. Stansfield was poached.
So we do benefit from the same, as frustrating as it all is.
I was speaking to an Exeter City coach last week about Stansfield. He said they'd resigned themselves to the fact he was off from an early age as he was that good. However, they and clubs like them do feel aggrieved that they get very little for the finding and development and almost more so that the player would almost certainly be playing every game for them (and improving them) when all he does here is play U23s and fill the squad. Same for us- Carvalho would improve us, we'll probably get very little and he'll go somewhere and fill a squad.
My answer would be to add 20% sell on fees to development clubs- so if, for example, Elliott moves to Arsenal for £35m- we get £7m. Then it's the big boys paying the surplus and helping fund the smaller clubs. Same stands for us- we'd have to pay AFC Wimbledon and QPR for the fees we received for Roberts and Elliott.
Quote from: Jim© on November 03, 2021, 09:54:28 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on November 03, 2021, 09:33:58 AM
One thing to consider in this, as we bemoan our lot, is that Roberts came to us from Wimbledon and Elliott from QPR.
We've signed lots of players for nothing to little too. Stansfield was poached.
So we do benefit from the same, as frustrating as it all is.
I was speaking to an Exeter City coach last week about Stansfield. He said they'd resigned themselves to the fact he was off from an early age as he was that good. However, they and clubs like them do feel aggrieved that they get very little for the finding and development and almost more so that the player would almost certainly be playing every game for them (and improving them) when all he does here is play U23s and fill the squad. Same for us- Carvalho would improve us, we'll probably get very little and he'll go somewhere and fill a squad.
My answer would be to add 20% sell on fees to development clubs- so if, for example, Elliott moves to Arsenal for £35m- we get £7m. Then it's the big boys paying the surplus and helping fund the smaller clubs. Same stands for us- we'd have to pay AFC Wimbledon and QPR for the fees we received for Roberts and Elliott.
Good idea Jim but I agree with Twig...in the short term we'll get very little so why not put him up for sale in January?
Keeping an eye on the u23s, I notice that Stansfield has been playing the 10 role recently. I wonder if this is where the see his best position to be.
Re Carvalho I was disappointed the way he through his arms in the air when Wilson shot instead of passing. Maybe all the publicity has gone to his head, he needs to be careful or he could end up as a legend in his own mind. His previous comment about winning the balon d'or was odd as well.
Quote from: bobby01 on November 03, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
Keeping an eye on the u23s, I notice that Stansfield has been playing the 10 role recently. I wonder if this is where the see his best position to be.
Re Carvalho I was disappointed the way he through his arms in the air when Wilson shot instead of passing. Maybe all the publicity has gone to his head, he needs to be careful or he could end up as a legend in his own mind. His previous comment about winning the balon d'or was odd as well.
Spot on. Most 18 year olds wouldn't dare do this to their senior colleagues if they had just been given a chance to break into the first team. They would too busy keeping their head down and chasing back.
Disappointing news on the face of it obviously as a new contract provides certainty and stability all round, not least to Fabio for whom there is a reasonable chance as things stand could be playing in a Premiership squad next season.
However who has been 'leaking' this news. The information that he is changing his agent in January is interesting. If it is coming from the club then not very clever. If it is from the current agent (who for all we know may have inserted unfavourable clauses in a contract with an unadvised and impressionable youth at the time) then it may be sensible for Fabio (and the club) to keep silent and wait until the current agent is 'out of the picture'!
If in the meanwhile Fabio's performances hopefully turn him from being 'potential' to something more substantial and in return makes him feel that FFC have his best interests at heart so be it!
Well I hope that is how hope it all turns out - fingers crossed and all that :033:
Quote from: copthornemike on November 03, 2021, 10:51:20 AM
Disappointing news on the face of it obviously as a new contract provides certainty and stability all round, not least to Fabio for whom there is a reasonable chance as things stand could be playing in a Premiership squad next season.
However who has been 'leaking' this news. The information that he is changing his agent in January is interesting. If it is coming from the club then not very clever. If it is from the current agent (who for all we know may have inserted unfavourable clauses in a contract with an unadvised and impressionable youth at the time) then it may be sensible for Fabio (and the club) to keep silent and wait until the current agent is 'out of the picture'!
If in the meanwhile Fabio's performances hopefully turn him from being 'potential' to something more substantial and in return makes him feel that FFC have his best interests at heart so be it!
Well I hope that is how hope it all turns out - fingers crossed and all that :033:
I was thinking about this, this morning. Something does not add up about the whole story here.
We were led to believe that contract negotiations had stalled while Carvalho was changing to a new agent in January. That in itself didn't bode well, it seems most likely that a new agents role would be to get the biggest transfer possible but still, it seemed there was some possibility of the new agent leading to a new contract.
Now we hear that a new (big) contract has been offered and rejected. If that is true, which agent advised him to reject the contract? Why did we make an apparent final big contract offer at a point where he was between agents anyway?
It feels like there is either missing or incorrect information coming out about this. Perhaps the new agent story was just circulated to keep the fans quiet while no progress was being made on the contract? Or perhaps the club learned that Carvalho was in advanced negotiations with another team and this was a last ditch attempt to keep him. Or something else, but I cant help but feel that the information leaked so far does not add-up to a consistent and coherent picture of what is happening!
Quote from: 70sPimlico on November 03, 2021, 08:24:58 AM
Just a thought on this. The story seems to have come from the club perspective. They obviously felt the need to go public.
That is quite rare as its normally the players agent putting out the for sale sign.
I guess the club is trying to force the issue one way or another
This is what I was thinking. If it is true that he is changing his agent but that the new agent is unable to act until the previous agent's contract expires (claimed to be end of December), it's fairly obvious (IMO) that he won't want to discuss a contract until that time.
Any player can let their contract run down. There's very little a club can do. The positives are our academy are turning out better players and eventually some will stick and the academy will attract better players.
As long as a player isn't causing a problem within the squad and they can contribute to promotion. Which brings a huge £££ windfall for the Club. I'd play them.
Quote from: I Ronic on November 03, 2021, 01:54:30 PM
Any player can let their contract run down. There's very little a club can do. The positives are our academy are turning out better players and eventually some will stick and the academy will attract better players.
As long as a player isn't causing a problem within the squad and they can contribute to promotion. Which brings a huge £££ windfall for the Club. I'd play them.
We are doing well just now with all players full of enthusiasm, lets not risk the team spirit by including a young talent who doesn't want to be with us.
Remember what one rotten apple can do in a barrel of good apples.
Anyone got any concrete, confirmed news whether there is any truth in this rumour.
As I said before why would the club make him an offer when he is,effectively, between agents.
Why do we always seem to believe the negative rumours without any substance.
All it does is make us fans feel angry at him, probably without any reason whatsoever.
Any idiots booing him on hearsay will be instrumental in him leaving I feel.
My feelings are if fit he should play. As long as he is liked by his teammates and he is not causing any rift within, he should play. It can only benefit BOTH the team and the player. Good performances from him help towards promotion and also can enhance players' value if he moves on next year. Hard for us 'outsiders' to really know how he feels about helping FFC move forward.......
Agreed, if fit then play him. Let's not forget Fred was out of contract at the end of 2017-2018 and by Jan had made it clear that he had no intention of signing a new deal. Despite this Fred played the majority of the games in the 2nd half of that season and didn't look uncommitted despite knowing he was off in the summer. As long as Carv is fit to play and committed to play, I have no issues with playing him
Can I just say that there's a big difference between a professional "not wanting to be with us" and "thinking he's worth more than what we're offering him"? He's just a teenager, but this is his job. I presume those on this board would not want to sign a contract for less than you think you're worth if you have numerous other options on the table?
I highly doubt Fabio's intent is to play in the U23s for the next six months as he trying to showcase himself for a big payday, whether that's with us or a larger club. If his head is straight and the manager thinks he should be out there, I have no issues with him playing and helping us get promoted.
Agree with latest posts that provided he's not causing locker room disruption then he should play as eg 3 points, promotion etc would go some way to recouping the money it looks like we will lose when his contract expires.
I want him to stay with us. However, if his priority is salary rather than playtime, then he'll never develop into the talent we're hoping, and this should be a sign for us to move on.
Hopefully his new agent will get his head in the right place: he needs to establish himself in a team for a few seasons before being ready to take the next step. If he stays with us, he's a guaranteed starter for a season and (most likely) would be starting in the premier league next season too. Then he'd be in a great place to make an informed decision about his true level, ready for his next move. Madness to leave now - there're many ex-youngsters who left too soon, and only one has gone on to start in a top league (Moussa Dembele II, in France), with far more left with middling careers (Pat Roberts, Eric Hyndman, Tankovic, Chris David etc).
Hopefully he changes his mind soon - for his sake as much as ours!
Quote from: bog on November 02, 2021, 05:25:48 PM
If he doesn't want to stay then good bye.
Thank God or someone that this never happened when the Maestro was coming through! :doh:
092.gif
Spurs were desperate to sign him but he wanted to play for the same club as his best friend Tosh Chamberlain.
Who?
Looked his usual busy self last night when he came on. Not sure what to think, and don't want to overthink or whatever, so will just continue to enjoy him being part of this team until he isn't.
Quote from: gang on November 03, 2021, 07:34:01 PM
Quote from: bog on November 02, 2021, 05:25:48 PM
If he doesn't want to stay then good bye.
Thank God or someone that this never happened when the Maestro was coming through! :doh:
092.gif
Spurs were desperate to sign him but he wanted to play for the same club as his best friend Tosh Chamberlain.
Fabio is best mates with Tosh?
If he stays then all well and good, and if he goes so be it!
More concerned with the Academy being successful but also that the Tribunals that decide compensation get it right if a young player moves on or the Academy system will ultimately fail and then we will all follow the Brentford model.
For what its worth, my guess is that Fabio is trying to negotiate the best possible deal for himself. So far he has rejected the offer/s made to him by the club, but I have not heard from anywhere or from anybody that he has said that he wants to leave. Moreover when he has played in the last few games he has certainly put in some effort and joined in celebrations with the team. Reports of booing by our fans hardly seems designed to make him feel wanted ( remembering that hes still very young)
I would like to encourage all fans to cut him some slack. Personally I have always tried to negotiate the best deal for myself when joining a new employer so I fully expect Fabio to do the same. In the meantime I wish him well and hope that he continues to support our push for the title
He's probably already sending flirty texts to Klopp and Conte. Be surprised if he's here next season
Quote from: Keefy on November 04, 2021, 07:14:55 PM
For what its worth, my guess is that Fabio is trying to negotiate the best possible deal for himself. So far he has rejected the offer/s made to him by the club, but I have not heard from anywhere or from anybody that he has said that he wants to leave. Moreover when he has played in the last few games he has certainly put in some effort and joined in celebrations with the team. Reports of booing by our fans hardly seems designed to make him feel wanted ( remembering that hes still very young)
I would like to encourage all fans to cut him some slack. Personally I have always tried to negotiate the best deal for myself when joining a new employer so I fully expect Fabio to do the same. In the meantime I wish him well and hope that he continues to support our push for the title
+1
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From Peter Rutzler The Athletic last night:
Silva spoke about Carvalho's situation last night. Said he will be involved if he keeps working hard and said he'd not seen anything different in his behaviour.
"If you ask me if I am happy with the situation around him, all these conversations? I am not." #FFC
Can anyone explain why Fabio would 'allow' himself to be sold in January rather than running down his contract and pocketing all the money in June?
Let's be realistic . Liverpool at least have already made him a verbal offer
He could believe he is more Elliott than Roberts and have a shot at playing for the 1st team within 2 years
I don't believe anything is signed - as that would be a provable breach of tapping up rules - so he could change his mind if
1) we keep playing as we are
2) his new agent gets a decent cut of the new contract with us ( rather than just if he leaves )
So watch and wait
In the meantime play him
1) if his attitude is right
2) if he merits a place - currently ahead of BDR who is playing well
Surely he would want to see if we go up also? - say we did go up and he wanted first team premier league football then there wouldn't be a better place for him to stay.
Getting fed up with all this talk, looks be has gone and these major clubs who are sniffing around will probably wait until June when he will be a freeby rather than God forbid pay any money for him. If he is going to go he is going to go. Am I going to wish him well, no I am not he has made his bed so he has to lie in it. However if he was to sign a new contract with a decent buy out clause I would have the utmost respect for him. This is what Edwin Van de Sar did when Man U came knocking.
Quote from: JimOG on November 05, 2021, 11:21:52 AM
From Peter Rutzler The Athletic last night:
Silva spoke about Carvalho's situation last night. Said he will be involved if he keeps working hard and said he'd not seen anything different in his behaviour.
"If you ask me if I am happy with the situation around him, all these conversations? I am not." #FFC
Can anyone explain why Fabio would 'allow' himself to be sold in January rather than running down his contract and pocketing all the money in June?
If we know by January that he definitely wants to go then let's put him on the market, with all these potential suitors it could start a bit of an auction. In that case if he refused to leave so that he could run his contract down we would have established a level for the arbitration committee that would be hard to ignore eg if Spurs offered 15 mill in Jan but he went in summer for nothing, any arbitration could hardly say that they value him at 8 mill.
Having said that I'm not sure where we stand with him, he will be 19 so does this fall into the arbitration situation for young players becoming 'seniors'.
Quote from: spoonffc on November 05, 2021, 02:08:10 PM
Surely he would want to see if we go up also? - say we did go up and he wanted first team premier league football then there wouldn't be a better place for him to stay.
This is the interesting part of the whole saga for me. If what Carvalho wants is regular football in the top flight, we could be in a very good position to make that offer to him in January - just when his new agent takes over and he has the opportunity to speak to other clubs. You'd have to think the role of Silva giving him first team football and developing his talent would work in our favour too.
Quote from: Beamer on November 05, 2021, 02:22:33 PM
Quote from: JimOG on November 05, 2021, 11:21:52 AM
From Peter Rutzler The Athletic last night:
Silva spoke about Carvalho's situation last night. Said he will be involved if he keeps working hard and said he'd not seen anything different in his behaviour.
"If you ask me if I am happy with the situation around him, all these conversations? I am not." #FFC
Can anyone explain why Fabio would 'allow' himself to be sold in January rather than running down his contract and pocketing all the money in June?
If we know by January that he definitely wants to go then let's put him on the market, with all these potential suitors it could start a bit of an auction. In that case if he refused to leave so that he could run his contract down we would have established a level for the arbitration committee that would be hard to ignore eg if Spurs offered 15 mill in Jan but he went in summer for nothing, any arbitration could hardly say that they value him at 8 mill.
Having said that I'm not sure where we stand with him, he will be 19 so does this fall into the arbitration situation for young players becoming 'seniors'.
Thanks Beamer - this makes sense (which is not the same as this is the rule I know!). I was wondering how we could put him up for sale when he seems to have all the aces. However if that sets a new benchmark for our compensation then it's worth doing. I don't think our promotion would be sufficient if his head has been turned by Liverpool Real etc
If he does run his contract down, he needs to go to an English club if we want to get a decent arbitration fee. If he goes abroad we'll get peanuts e.g. Dembele to Celtic.