On the Spurs forum comments about him
Looks like a 15 year old kid who has won a day playing for Spurs
Out of his depth
Championship player
If Fulham get promoted we can send him back
Timid
They don't seem over keen on our Ryan
Left too early. Good price for us but, if he cared about a career, it was the wrong move for him.
I'd still take him back though - would like to see him linking up with Mitro again, for a knockdown fee.
I have a couple of mates who are Spuds fans. They both think he was one of the worst purchases they have ever made. A bit harsh to me but I would agree that he left to early. Feel bad for him and hope he turns things around.
Wasn't he recently subbed after only being on the pitch for like 25 minutes or something?
I wouldn't want him back.
That's right Conte hooked him straight off.
The kid is shot of confidence and being played far too deep. He was always most exciting in and around the opponent's box. I'd love to get him back on loan with an option to buy; I'd be confident that he'd find some form again.
I always felt with Sess that he never pushed on after our first promotion campaign. His main threat in the Championship wasn't his pace nor necessarily his technical ability, but his anticipation to be one step ahead of defenders around him to know where to be at the right time.
He wasn't quite good enough to stand out in the Premier League for me, which is why I thought it was a great deal our end to get £25m for him. I agree with others that it was far too soon for him in the PL, and ultimately the move to Spurs which many knew would end with him sitting on their bench or in their reserves, has ruined his progress.
Quote from: love4ffc on February 24, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
I have a couple of mates who are Spuds fans. They both think he was one of the worst purchases they have ever made. A bit harsh to me but I would agree that he left to early. Feel bad for him and hope he turns things around.
Wasn't he recently subbed after only being on the pitch for like 25 minutes or something?
Yes, but that was seemingly a tactical substitution. Spurs were 2 nil down after 18 mins to Wolves " Tottenham gifted the visitors two goals in the opening 20 minutes thanks to a mixture of calamitous defending and poor goalkeeping by Hugo Lloris......Jimenez capitalised on a weak Lloris punch to volley in the opener before Spurs gave away possession to allow Leander Dendoncker to double Wolves' lead." Conte brought on Dejan Kulusevski in an attacking role in an effort to get back into the game. In Spurs next game (Man City) Sess played 93 mins, so hardly a vote of no confidence. Last night he played 79 minutes. I think much of fans' criticism of him equates to 'lazy journalism'.
It has saddened me over the years that the Spurs' bench or reserves has been perceived as a good career move for generations of our talented youngsters (and not so young ones). Still, they all got paid well, and I guess that's justification enough in this mercenary world.
Quote from: blingo on February 24, 2022, 10:24:29 PM
I wouldn't want him back.
agree totally . I never thought he was as good as many people speculated. Having said that he's a very decent player but just not the superstar many we're portraying him to be. I remember some around me in the riverside saying you don't know what you're talking about but I honestly think even in those early days my assessment of him wasn't far off the mark.
I agree with a lot of the comments here. Sess was a decent player as a lot of players coming through the ranks were. He was never a world beater and needed to develop his entire game. He is still young so can still do it but he needs the right coaching without pressure. If he came back to us he might expect preferential treatment so I wouldn't want him back. But I'm sure his correct level is probably lower than the prem
A young talented English player transferred to Spuds is going to wither on the vine. It's a swirling drain.
Sess is a quality player. Tottenham is poison -- from the ownership to the foreign gaffers they hire.
Quote from: bobbo on February 24, 2022, 10:59:09 PM
Quote from: blingo on February 24, 2022, 10:24:29 PM
I wouldn't want him back.
agree totally . I never thought he was as good as many people speculated. Having said that he's a very decent player but just not the superstar many we're portraying him to be. I remember some around me in the riverside saying you don't know what you're talking about but I honestly think even in those early days my assessment of him wasn't far off the mark.
+1
When i read these comments it makes me think that all of you must have had such linear journeys in life.
I will say it again, Ryan Sessegnon was one of the most talented players i have ever seen in a Fulham shirt.
I hope that whatever is affecting him, and his brother, they will get over and that they both are able to push on again.
Jesus christ, soon someone will be telling me Jean Tigana was average because he was suitably replaced by Chris Coleman :doh:
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 24, 2022, 10:45:37 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on February 24, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
I have a couple of mates who are Spuds fans. They both think he was one of the worst purchases they have ever made. A bit harsh to me but I would agree that he left to early. Feel bad for him and hope he turns things around.
Wasn't he recently subbed after only being on the pitch for like 25 minutes or something?
Yes, but that was seemingly a tactical substitution. Spurs were 2 nil down after 18 mins to Wolves " Tottenham gifted the visitors two goals in the opening 20 minutes thanks to a mixture of calamitous defending and poor goalkeeping by Hugo Lloris......Jimenez capitalised on a weak Lloris punch to volley in the opener before Spurs gave away possession to allow Leander Dendoncker to double Wolves' lead." Conte brought on Dejan Kulusevski in an attacking role in an effort to get back into the game. In Spurs next game (Man City) Sess played 93 mins, so hardly a vote of no confidence. Last night he played 79 minutes. I think much of fans' criticism of him equates to 'lazy journalism'.
Most sensible post in this thread by some distance.
I love Sessegnon, will never forget his season under Slav and will never forget that he signed a contract and gave us a year in the Prem and a big transfer fee but I would not have him back. Firstly second home comings after a successful first spell are dangerous because of high expectations and secondly he isn't a defender I don't think he is an upgrade on Kebano. I would look for a winger in the summer but not Sess, I mentioned I would have Lookman back and most in here disagreed with me which I get but taking emotion out of the equation Lookman is a better player.
Quote from: Cambridge Away on February 25, 2022, 01:08:36 AM
When i read these comments it makes me think that all of you must have had such linear journeys in life.
I will say it again, Ryan Sessegnon was one of the most talented players i have ever seen in a Fulham shirt.
I hope that whatever is affecting him, and his brother, they will get over and that they both are able to push on again.
Jesus christ, soon someone will be telling me Jean Tigana was average because he was suitably replaced by Chris Coleman :doh:
I like the boy,but I think he found his Niche in the way we played under Slava...Has been at Spuds and out on loan so has had chances under different managers to show his worth.
As for saying Cambridge that he is one of the most talented Fulhan players,then I can only believe that's your opinion or you haven't seen that many.
I'd say over the years I've seen well over a hundred more talented than him,who've worn our shirt.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 24, 2022, 10:45:37 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on February 24, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
I have a couple of mates who are Spuds fans. They both think he was one of the worst purchases they have ever made. A bit harsh to me but I would agree that he left to early. Feel bad for him and hope he turns things around.
Wasn't he recently subbed after only being on the pitch for like 25 minutes or something?
Yes, but that was seemingly a tactical substitution. Spurs were 2 nil down after 18 mins to Wolves " Tottenham gifted the visitors two goals in the opening 20 minutes thanks to a mixture of calamitous defending and poor goalkeeping by Hugo Lloris......Jimenez capitalised on a weak Lloris punch to volley in the opener before Spurs gave away possession to allow Leander Dendoncker to double Wolves' lead." Conte brought on Dejan Kulusevski in an attacking role in an effort to get back into the game. In Spurs next game (Man City) Sess played 93 mins, so hardly a vote of no confidence. Last night he played 79 minutes. I think much of fans' criticism of him equates to 'lazy journalism'.
Yes, Conte had to take dramatic action, but Sess in his wing back position, didn't seem immediately at fault for Spurs going two down, and then he was picked by Conte for the next two games, as said.
Spurs fan reaction is way over the top, but they probably thought they were getting a wunderkind of a player, who can take defenders on with pace, and score, rather than a quietly effective team player, who does the basics well, and one of whose main attributes is finding space to receive a pass- is in the right place at the right time, and his own passing and crossing.
He is definitely a top young player, but his talents aren't always obvious to fans, maybe, except when he scores, as he did, importantly, for Fulham in the Champ. and which is much harder in the Prem, especially when he isn't a striker.
Perhaps it would have been better for his career, and personally, to have stayed at Fulham, but you can't blame him for taking the chance when it came - for the career opportunities as a player , as well as financial reasons.
Does he think he is a failure? - when he seems to be regularly playing in Spurs first 11, despite what their fans might say on social media - well, I hope he tries not to look at that stuff, something that players, and everyone in the game today, has to deal with.
Quote from: RaySmith on February 25, 2022, 07:37:36 AM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 24, 2022, 10:45:37 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on February 24, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
I have a couple of mates who are Spuds fans. They both think he was one of the worst purchases they have ever made. A bit harsh to me but I would agree that he left to early. Feel bad for him and hope he turns things around.
Wasn't he recently subbed after only being on the pitch for like 25 minutes or something?
Yes, but that was seemingly a tactical substitution. Spurs were 2 nil down after 18 mins to Wolves " Tottenham gifted the visitors two goals in the opening 20 minutes thanks to a mixture of calamitous defending and poor goalkeeping by Hugo Lloris......Jimenez capitalised on a weak Lloris punch to volley in the opener before Spurs gave away possession to allow Leander Dendoncker to double Wolves' lead." Conte brought on Dejan Kulusevski in an attacking role in an effort to get back into the game. In Spurs next game (Man City) Sess played 93 mins, so hardly a vote of no confidence. Last night he played 79 minutes. I think much of fans' criticism of him equates to 'lazy journalism'.
Yes, Conte had to take dramatic action, but Sess in his wing back position, didn't seem immediately at fault for Spurs going two down, and then he was picked by Conte for the next two games, as said.
Spurs fan reaction is way over the top, but they probably thought they were getting a wunderkind of a player, who can take defenders on with pace, and score, rather than a quietly effective team player, who does the basics well, and one of whose main attributes is finding space to receive a pass- is in the right place at the right time, and his own passing and crossing.
He is definitely a top young player, but his talents aren't always obvious to fans, maybe, except when he scores, as he did, importantly, for Fulham in the Champ. and which is much harder in the Prem, especially when he isn't a striker.
Perhaps it would have been better for his career, and personally, to have stayed at Fulham, but you can't blame him for taking the chance when it came - for the career opportunities as a player , as well as financial reasons.
Does he think he is a failure? - when he seems to be regularly playing in Spurs first 11, despite what their fans might say on social media - well, I hope he tries not to look at that stuff, something that players, and everyone in the game today, has to deal with.
Some good sense in the replies here. In my opinion Sess was a youngster with huge potential at the time of leaving us but the emphasis is on potential. Unfortunately at Spuds Conte and his coaching team appear to have done diddly squat to develop that potential whilst knocking his confidence too.
No way do I share the view that he was over rated or that the Championship is his level. Focus on coaching his development, have patience and when he does play for goodness sake play him in the right position. I'm absolutely convinced there's a Prem level play in there.
Ryan never looked like an out and out full back and I always felt he would turn into a winger or attacking midfielder but he seems to have fallen somewhere between the two stools. Great shame because I thought he had the potential to be become a top quality player with a natural eye for goal and good passing skills in and around the box. In the few games he played for Spurs when he finally got a chance it seemed clear that Kane didn't rate him as he was very reluctant to give him the ball. I watched one game in particular where he would look anywhere to make a pass rather than use Sess even when the lad was in a good position down the left flank and it looked the obvious pass which cannot help the confidence of a young lad. Kane will have seen him in training so had obviously made a judgment on him and maybe he was right (or not), however the Spurs side at the time wasn't that good so difficult to tell what was going on and Sess was soon sent out on loan. Conte has been using him more so perhaps he has seen something in him, I would like to see him get back to his best as he has talent which it would be sad to see wasted.
Was overhyped. "The next Gareth Bail". He never had that level of skill or ball control
What he had was a great instinct in the box and speed
One of Slav's worst mistakes was playing him as a fullback.
At the time Ryan was often regarded as our best young player since Johnny Haynes. He treated the club with respect and signed a contract so we would get a big fee for him. Then he was under the spell/tuition of Moronio. Now he looks so shot of confidence when he gets the ball and he gives it to another player and says 'here mate you have a go'. Slav got the best out of him and I would have him back and let Marco work with him. Good luck Ryan. He who once after giving a late urine sample took his kit home to wash and iron for the next day. Can't imagine Pogba doing that....
092.gif
Sess is a good young player but Spuds is a cess pitt and only a few young players have developed and progressed there. How many managers has he had since transferring - 4 or is it 5. A merry go round that will do nothing to develop him further. Under a decent manager in a team that plays to his strengths he would be an asset.
He took the cross field pass, beat the player and played the incisive pass inside the full back for TC to score that goal. I will support him forever for what he did for our club
Tbf he went to spuds to develop under Pochettino, as soon as he went then sess's career started to go down the pan as the managers who followed poch have no interest in playing youth. It was really unlucky timing for him, he had a lot of potential but now is at an age where he needs to find a home, play every week and realise some of that potential that remains.
In all honesty I thought that Sess was no more than average at left back but that he had a good understanding with Mitro and a magnificent spell of goal poaching at Championship level.
Spurs have failed to develop this talent and it is now questionable whether Fulham or any other club can get him up to Premier League standard.
Carvalho should be made aware that the grass at the top clubs is not always greener than at the Cottage.
Never had the courage to tackle and never had the desire to run at a defender and take him on and as a consequence nobody has ever known where to play him,
Will end up at the liked of Reading, QPR or Luton, and his brother will finish up even lower,
Sometimes it's not just about talent it's more about passion and hunger and I just don't think he's got that.
Quote from: bobby01 on February 25, 2022, 10:06:21 AM
Tbf he went to spuds to develop under Pochettino, as soon as he went then sess's career started to go down the pan as the managers who followed poch have no interest in playing youth. It was really unlucky timing for him, he had a lot of potential but now is at an age where he needs to find a home, play every week and realise some of that potential that remains.
He is currently playing every week at least.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on February 24, 2022, 10:45:37 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on February 24, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
I have a couple of mates who are Spuds fans. They both think he was one of the worst purchases they have ever made. A bit harsh to me but I would agree that he left to early. Feel bad for him and hope he turns things around.
Wasn't he recently subbed after only being on the pitch for like 25 minutes or something?
Yes, but that was seemingly a tactical substitution. Spurs were 2 nil down after 18 mins to Wolves " Tottenham gifted the visitors two goals in the opening 20 minutes thanks to a mixture of calamitous defending and poor goalkeeping by Hugo Lloris......Jimenez capitalised on a weak Lloris punch to volley in the opener before Spurs gave away possession to allow Leander Dendoncker to double Wolves' lead." Conte brought on Dejan Kulusevski in an attacking role in an effort to get back into the game. In Spurs next game (Man City) Sess played 93 mins, so hardly a vote of no confidence. Last night he played 79 minutes. I think much of fans' criticism of him equates to 'lazy journalism'.
It's a tough one. On that specific instance, following an individual ok performance and good team performance to the best team in the country, you'd think all was relatively ok. But if you look further than a few games, you'll see his first half, awful performance to essentially, a weaker than championship side in europe, where he was sent off, correctly, in the first half that led to an embarrassing loss. I really don't think on any metric, Sess has been a success during his time at Spurs, and even the most optimistic Spurs fans I know, think time will help, but aren't excited when he's selected.
I like him, think he's not quite where I think he should be when he left but that's understandable. Is he currently a top 4 player. No. Is he ok for a squad player there? Probably. Even in a rotation out of bench. But the amount they spent and the reputation he took with him, I'd be a disappointed Spurs fan to be honest. Albeit, with a slight optimism for the future.
Biggest issue for Sess IMO was he's a bit like Bobby D-R - not in playing style, but in the sense that neither has a position.
Sess' main attributes are his inteligence/reading of the game and movement, as evidenced by the timing of his runs, where to run to and choice of pass/shot was often right. What he wasn't/isn't so good at is aggression or strength in the tackle, nor running with the ball at his feet and taking on players so almost the last position he should play is full back/wing back. In that position, you need to be defensively strong/aggresively controlled in the tackle (such as Tete), or good with the ball at your feet and taking players on (like Williams) - or ideally both. I'd say he's also not really cut out to play as a wide forward for lacking the second set of attributes.
The attributes he does have (football IQ, good movement, timing and decision making, passing and finishing) sound more like a no. 8 in the mould of David Platt, or a lesser Lampard. When he was with us we always had TC there, plus he wasn't quite physically filled out to hold down that role. He seems to have grown into a man rather than a skinny boy now. It would be interesting to see him get a shot in that position IMO as he has all the mental attributes for that role - sadly I dont think Spurs have the luxury of trying him out there, but there is a lot of competition there for that role. In fact the only mental attribute he hasn't really displayed yet is resiliance at bouncing back from adversity - but that comes with experience.
If he can be played in a team and position that plays to his strengths, then maybe we can see what he is truly capable of.
Refreshing reading some of the comments on this thread.
I loved Sess and he had something about him. His positional awareness was well ahead of his years...
But he lacked pace, he lacked strength, and he was realistically never going to make it at the top level. I said this when he was being linked with a big money transfer and an England callup, and got slated for it, so it's nice to be proven right (for once!). He was poor for us under multiple managers in the Premier League, has been a disaster under various managers at Spurs, and had a bang average season on loan in Germany where top English talents tend to thrive.
Some people argue that he's the most talented youngster to come through our system, I'd argue he's the most overrated player that's played for us in my lifetime. I certainly would not take him back - he doesn't fit Silva's style at all and is not as talented as Kebano, Wilson, or even Ivan for that matter.
Quote from: joshfulham on February 25, 2022, 12:19:18 PM
Refreshing reading some of the comments on this thread.
I loved Sess and he had something about him. His positional awareness was well ahead of his years...
But he lacked pace, he lacked strength, and he was realistically never going to make it at the top level. I said this when he was being linked with a big money transfer and an England callup, and got slated for it, so it's nice to be proven right (for once!). He was poor for us under multiple managers in the Premier League, has been a disaster under various managers at Spurs, and had a bang average season on loan in Germany where top English talents tend to thrive.
Some people argue that he's the most talented youngster to come through our system, I'd argue he's the most overrated player that's played for us in my lifetime. I certainly would not take him back - he doesn't fit Silva's style at all and is not as talented as Kebano, Wilson, or even Ivan for that matter.
Your assessment of being right is seemingly very premature. In my opinion. His so called failings in the Premier League could maybe be seen in context. The kid is still only 21 years old.
Personally I would argue that he is definitely a cut above a player like Kebano, for example. I also believe Silva could easily use Sess, and get him into scoring positions. And when that happens we know he has plenty of talent (as opposed to Kebano, again as an example).
He had too much game time at Fulham and while that developed his match experience, it put an incredible toll on a young body and he seems to have taken a few years to recover, but now he has rested his body from matchday he will develop into a fine player.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 25, 2022, 12:33:40 PM
He had too much game time at Fulham and while that developed his match experience, it put an incredible toll on a young body and he seems to have taken a few years to recover, but now he has rested his body from matchday he will develop into a fine player.
Nonsense...Too much game time and years to recover,he's a young fit person for christ sake,could play 3 games a week no bother..
Rooney for one was playing top class football from 16 onwards,didn't affect him in any way or quite a few others as well.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 25, 2022, 12:33:40 PM
He had too much game time at Fulham and while that developed his match experience, it put an incredible toll on a young body and he seems to have taken a few years to recover, but now he has rested his body from matchday he will develop into a fine player.
How can you say this, on what grounds, he is an athlete finely tuned fit and well nourished and conditioned.
There is no toll, the pitches these days are like my Snooker rooms carpet a shag pile.
They don't even play a full game with all these substitutions, plus the tackle from behind has been banished.
It's a breeze for the modern day footballer.
Perhaps the only risk is when they dive they may hurt themselves or when they feign injury they may pull a cheek muscle when they grimace.
Your solution is to breed a generation of wimps and milky soft weak mentality wrapped up
in cotton wall and indulged by the media.
Pull yourself together man.
Quote from: bobby01 on February 25, 2022, 10:06:21 AM
Tbf he went to spuds to develop under Pochettino, as soon as he went then sess's career started to go down the pan as the managers who followed poch have no interest in playing youth. It was really unlucky timing for him, he had a lot of potential but now is at an age where he needs to find a home, play every week and realise some of that potential that remains.
Agreed. Doubt he ever goes to Spurs if he had known Pocchettino was going to get sacked within a few months of arriving.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 25, 2022, 12:33:40 PM
He had too much game time at Fulham and while that developed his match experience, it put an incredible toll on a young body and he seems to have taken a few years to recover, but now he has rested his body from matchday he will develop into a fine player.
Yeh, Jude Bellingham's 100 appearances at 18 in a much better, more competitive league/team have hampered him. I think I read this from maybe yourself before, but I can't really see how Sess struggling has any bearing on his playing experiences with us at a young age.....
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 25, 2022, 12:27:06 PM
Quote from: joshfulham on February 25, 2022, 12:19:18 PM
Refreshing reading some of the comments on this thread.
I loved Sess and he had something about him. His positional awareness was well ahead of his years...
But he lacked pace, he lacked strength, and he was realistically never going to make it at the top level. I said this when he was being linked with a big money transfer and an England callup, and got slated for it, so it's nice to be proven right (for once!). He was poor for us under multiple managers in the Premier League, has been a disaster under various managers at Spurs, and had a bang average season on loan in Germany where top English talents tend to thrive.
Some people argue that he's the most talented youngster to come through our system, I'd argue he's the most overrated player that's played for us in my lifetime. I certainly would not take him back - he doesn't fit Silva's style at all and is not as talented as Kebano, Wilson, or even Ivan for that matter.
Your assessment of being right is seemingly very premature. In my opinion. His so called failings in the Premier League could maybe be seen in context. The kid is still only 21 years old.
Personally I would argue that he is definitely a cut above a player like Kebano, for example. I also believe Silva could easily use Sess, and get him into scoring positions. And when that happens we know he has plenty of talent (as opposed to Kebano, again as an example).
I said when Sess joined Spurs he'd struggle as I didn't think he'd get the same opportunities with Son and Kane in front of him in terms of who gets the ball in the box on the pitch. Sess was/is wonderful at finding that yard of space and finishing. He used to be on last man, not defend too much and just capitalise on the space Mitro exploited through his persona as a striker you absolutely have to mark, hence creating natural space around him. Kane doesn't do this for me, he plays more of a QB/deep role and when he looks to play the player on the last man through, its Son/Moura, not Sess so he's not exactly the right fit right now for that club.
I'm not sure how effective Sess would be now under Silva tbh. Kebano brings something to the team I don't think Sess does and that's a skill and flare with pace that startles defenders. But he also likes to get in the box so I think brings a little more to the team than just goals which Sess would. I think Sess is a better player overall, just not sure the right fit for us right now either. I also haven't seen anything to indicate Sess is the same player (on form for us) as he was when he left. He could be, but unless he's on form, I lie what we have currently to be honest......
If we had a chance of re signing him for next season we'd be silly not to. Fans loved him, he did well for us & he still has connections to the club.
Let's not forget it's hard to sign prem quality players & enticing them to our club is going to be a challenge with the other teams like Newcastle & Villa able to spend big again -let alone the massive clubs doing it each year.
I really hope Silva can discover & sign some Portuguese young talented gems, just like Wolves did a few seasons back.
Personally I think we have a max of six players who will be able to cut it next season in the prem. Take nothing away from the team this year the guy's are flying and doing us & themselves proud, but its going to be a complete rebuilding project again over the summer.
I know some like/dislike stats but before we get carried away with Ryan's ability to walk into our team, since joining Spurs he has the following:
This season. 13 Appearances, no goals and no assists. 1 read card.
Last season (in Bundasliga on loan). 29 appearances, 2 goals and 3 assists.
19/20 season. Spurs. 12 appearances. 1 goal, 1 assist.
For us, his overall stats were 120 games. 25 goals. 18 assists.
First time I've looked at them. I seem to remember people saying he had done well on loan with Hoffenheim. I'm really not sure how we can say honestly, he's an EPL standard player till he starts to punch his numbers up to be honest.
Quote from: bog on February 25, 2022, 09:19:07 AM
At the time Ryan was often regarded as our best young player since Johnny Haynes. He treated the club with respect and signed a contract so we would get a big fee for him. Then he was under the spell/tuition of Moronio. Now he looks so shot of confidence when he gets the ball and he gives it to another player and says 'here mate you have a go'. Slav got the best out of him and I would have him back and let Marco work with him. Good luck Ryan. He who once after giving a late urine sample took his kit home to wash and iron for the next day. Can't imagine Pogba doing that....
092.gif
Absolutely agree
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 25, 2022, 01:51:01 PM
I know some like/dislike stats but before we get carried away with Ryan's ability to walk into our team, since joining Spurs he has the following:
This season. 13 Appearances, no goals and no assists. 1 read card.
Last season (in Bundasliga on loan). 29 appearances, 2 goals and 3 assists.
19/20 season. Spurs. 12 appearances. 1 goal, 1 assist.
For us, his overall stats were 120 games. 25 goals. 18 assists.
First time I've looked at them. I seem to remember people saying he had done well on loan with Hoffenheim. I'm really not sure how we can say honestly, he's an EPL standard player till he starts to punch his numbers up to be honest.
I like stats, but not sure these are the best to use in this particular instance. I would guess that some of those quite limited number of appearances for Spurs have been as a fullback/wing back, and perhaps a few as a sub. In any way, he has not had a consistent run in a successful team, for various reasons (of which several is not necessarily of his own fault).
In Hoffenheim he played exclusively as a full back or wing back as far as I know. Not sure that goal and assist stats are the best to use then. Not saying he was a success, just saying those stats don't say very much. At least he was playing every week (when not injured) in a league that is better than the Championship.
I agree that he hasn't proved so far that he is a PL level player on a consistent basis, but he is still a very young player.
Quote from: Cambridge Away on February 25, 2022, 01:08:36 AM
When i read these comments it makes me think that all of you must have had such linear journeys in life.
I will say it again, Ryan Sessegnon was one of the most talented players i have ever seen in a Fulham shirt.
I hope that whatever is affecting him, and his brother, they will get over and that they both are able to push on again.
Jesus christ, soon someone will be telling me Jean Tigana was average because he was suitably replaced by Chris Coleman :doh:
Send me two pints of whatever you're drinking. One of the best players to ever grace a fulham shirt???? I seriously disagree sir.
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 25, 2022, 01:34:54 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 25, 2022, 12:27:06 PM
Quote from: joshfulham on February 25, 2022, 12:19:18 PM
Refreshing reading some of the comments on this thread.
I loved Sess and he had something about him. His positional awareness was well ahead of his years...
But he lacked pace, he lacked strength, and he was realistically never going to make it at the top level. I said this when he was being linked with a big money transfer and an England callup, and got slated for it, so it's nice to be proven right (for once!). He was poor for us under multiple managers in the Premier League, has been a disaster under various managers at Spurs, and had a bang average season on loan in Germany where top English talents tend to thrive.
Some people argue that he's the most talented youngster to come through our system, I'd argue he's the most overrated player that's played for us in my lifetime. I certainly would not take him back - he doesn't fit Silva's style at all and is not as talented as Kebano, Wilson, or even Ivan for that matter.
Your assessment of being right is seemingly very premature. In my opinion. His so called failings in the Premier League could maybe be seen in context. The kid is still only 21 years old.
Personally I would argue that he is definitely a cut above a player like Kebano, for example. I also believe Silva could easily use Sess, and get him into scoring positions. And when that happens we know he has plenty of talent (as opposed to Kebano, again as an example).
I said when Sess joined Spurs he'd struggle as I didn't think he'd get the same opportunities with Son and Kane in front of him in terms of who gets the ball in the box on the pitch. Sess was/is wonderful at finding that yard of space and finishing. He used to be on last man, not defend too much and just capitalise on the space Mitro exploited through his persona as a striker you absolutely have to mark, hence creating natural space around him. Kane doesn't do this for me, he plays more of a QB/deep role and when he looks to play the player on the last man through, its Son/Moura, not Sess so he's not exactly the right fit right now for that club.
I'm not sure how effective Sess would be now under Silva tbh. Kebano brings something to the team I don't think Sess does and that's a skill and flare with pace that startles defenders. But he also likes to get in the box so I think brings a little more to the team than just goals which Sess would. I think Sess is a better player overall, just not sure the right fit for us right now either. I also haven't seen anything to indicate Sess is the same player (on form for us) as he was when he left. He could be, but unless he's on form, I lie what we have currently to be honest......
I agree that Sess does not look like the same player. Neither does Neeskens, but there it's the other way around. Of course if we compare Neeskens in the form of his life in a free scoring team that dominates every game with Sessegnon seemingly completely devoid of confidence in and out of the starting eleven in a struggling team, then we only have one winner. I believe the theory is that Sessegnon would be allowed a chance to regain his confidence and rhytm and then maybe turn out to be a real upgrade. I for sure believe he would be.
As for whether or not he would fit in with Silva's team, I wouldn't worry too much. The kid is a very smart player, Silva is seemingly a smart manager. I am confident they would figure it out.
But most likely we will never find out, so it's anyone's guess. My money would still be on Sessegnon having a successful career in the Premier League, and Neeskens being found out next year. I hope I am right on Sessegnon and wrong on Neeskens.
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 25, 2022, 02:46:11 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 25, 2022, 01:51:01 PM
I know some like/dislike stats but before we get carried away with Ryan's ability to walk into our team, since joining Spurs he has the following:
This season. 13 Appearances, no goals and no assists. 1 read card.
Last season (in Bundasliga on loan). 29 appearances, 2 goals and 3 assists.
19/20 season. Spurs. 12 appearances. 1 goal, 1 assist.
For us, his overall stats were 120 games. 25 goals. 18 assists.
First time I've looked at them. I seem to remember people saying he had done well on loan with Hoffenheim. I'm really not sure how we can say honestly, he's an EPL standard player till he starts to punch his numbers up to be honest.
I like stats, but not sure these are the best to use in this particular instance. I would guess that some of those quite limited number of appearances for Spurs have been as a fullback/wing back, and perhaps a few as a sub. In any way, he has not had a consistent run in a successful team, for various reasons (of which several is not necessarily of his own fault).
In Hoffenheim he played exclusively as a full back or wing back as far as I know. Not sure that goal and assist stats are the best to use then. Not saying he was a success, just saying those stats don't say very much. At least he was playing every week (when not injured) in a league that is better than the Championship.
I agree that he hasn't proved so far that he is a PL level player on a consistent basis, but he is still a very young player.
I guess I'm a little less apologist compared to you in this regard (that's not a slight). The omission of some stats ie poor goals/assists stats over 3 seasons, can't just be down to him not playing/being limited. If he was doing the business, even on the training ground, he'd feature more. But regarding your main point, it's not the whole story and I agree, and I'm certainly not writing him off. I'd love him back, no question. I'm just not really as confident, he'd have that massive impact that some seem to suggest. I actually think he'd struggle to hold down a place unless he came back with previous high form levels, somethign we haven't seen from him at all since he left.
At the end of the day, his CV as a winger, doesn't make for a good read with any stats I can come up with (since leaving). Add in key passes, dribbles, distance covered. Nothing really seems to say to me he has had a good time of it unfortunately. If that means we can get him back then.......please may it continue.
Broadly agree with you FFC1987, good discussion.
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 25, 2022, 04:51:08 PM
Broadly agree with you FFC1987, good discussion.
Yeh, you too. Fingers crossed for a big win tomorrow!
Career implosion lol
Of course we would take him back.
Look towards Zaha at CP. He is low risk high reward assuming we can get him on the cheap.
Bigger issue wont be a transfer fee. but his wages. We can afford them, however he is on close to Mitro money at spurs and id imagine it would upset some of our established pro's and youngsters if we splash out 100K a week on a rotational player.
Agree with Hatterdon. Spurs are poison. get him back and with a decent coach (which we now have) he can regain his confidence. What did spuds pay? Give them 10% for his return.
Spurs stole Dembele from us, so Sessegnon was payback. He was never anyhere near as good as he was hyped up to be.
Quote from: Donnie Lonegan on February 26, 2022, 05:27:55 AM
Spurs stole Dembele from us, so Sessegnon was payback. He was never anyhere near as good as he was hyped up to be.
Sess is a different type of player to Dembele, and I think Spurs fans were expecting a more obviously 'brilliant' player - though Dembele developed a lot at Fulham, with a change of position- while Sess's qualities are more understated.
It was great business from us to sell him for what we got (£25m I think?). Love what he did whilst he was with us but he made up his mind to move on, it hasn't worked out (so far) and I dont think he is PL standard, albeit going to Spurs of all places won't have helped him with all the managerial changes, pressure of success etc. Conte seems to be involving him though, but I think his opportunities will soon start to become limited there. On the topic of welcoming him back, not for me. We need proven prem quality next year. I wish him luck of course and hope he manages to find a club where he can establish himself.
£25 million plus Onamah I think which was great business. Spurs hardly stole Dembele from us the triggered his £15 million release clause so we got good money for him shame they waited until the last day of the window to do it 🤦♂️
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
He just set up Spurs first goal
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
He's fit enough to be on the bench, mind!
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
[/ Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
Regulion is not injured. He was dropped for Doherty who just scored
Quote from: St Eve on February 26, 2022, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
[/ Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
Regulion is not injured. He was dropped for Doherty who just scored
He's at like 70% fitness coming back from injury. He'd be playing if fit. Regulion plays only on the ,eft where Sess is playing....
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:53:52 PM
Quote from: St Eve on February 26, 2022, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
[/ Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on February 26, 2022, 12:31:57 PM
Well for a player who isn't up to much, he's currently a starter for a side still aiming for Champions League and ahead of Regulion (who played for Madrid) and doing so under one of the best managers in the world.
I wouldn't say that's too bad.
Just to correct this, Regulion is injured, Sess is coming in for him.
Saying this, we can add an assist to his name today!
Regulion is not injured. He was dropped for Doherty who just scored
He's at like 70% fitness coming back from injury. He'd be playing if fit. Regulion plays only on the ,eft where Sess is playing....
Then Doherty would not be playing. Sess would be playing
I don't know how you've come to that conclusion? Doherty plays on the opposite side of the pitch? Do you mean Davies maybe as hes left back (left centre back in a back 3)
Doherty is definitely playing on the Spurs right in this game.
Irrespective of previous discussions, I will say, Ryan Sess has played really well today and his only hang up is how weak he can be, defensively. He is however playing a brilliant Raphina and we all know defending isn't his strong point. Been really impressed today.
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 26, 2022, 01:35:31 PM
Irrespective of previous discussions, I will say, Ryan Sess has played really well today and his only hang up is how weak he can be, defensively. He is however playing a brilliant Raphina and we all know defending isn't his strong point. Been really impressed today.
Agree with that, he's been really good so far.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 25, 2022, 12:33:40 PM
He had too much game time at Fulham and while that developed his match experience, it put an incredible toll on a young body and he seems to have taken a few years to recover, but now he has rested his body from matchday he will develop into a fine player.
This is bull.
Give him a glass of Sanatogen tonic wine and a rub down with the Sporting Life, and he'll be as good as new......
He seems to be stronger, and got a great assist for the first goal. I really like Sess, though Conte constantly moaning about how crap his players are probably isn't doing too much for his self-confidence
I have no doubt if Sess performs like that and keeps producing assists or goals, he can be a starter in that side. Will be tough for him, but can't see why not.
It's incredibly easy for anyone to make judgements about others. We can do it at will. But what does it amount to if not something we have made up our minds about, warts and all?
The Ryan Sessegnon I remember was a talented young player who played on the left hand side of a Fulham team, mature beyond his years, and coveted by Slavisa Jokanovic our then much appreciated Serbian coach. Jokanovic never doubted the youngster but knew he was more of an attacking resource than a defensive resource. But in Jokanovic's crucial second season our recruiters failed to provide the needed balance he craved and required until a certain Matt Targett came along on loan. For less than half a season we had a terrific set up on left, right and centre which secured a record unbeaten run. But it was only ever going to be for that short five months or so. Fredericks was gone and Targett would never return. What could have been was not going to be after that and our young talent was destined to move the moment the Club's hierarchy embarked on a whole series of catastrophic decisions during that first season back in the PL. How much damage did that season do to young Ryan, among others? I don't know but I can surmise that it wasn't a positive environment at any time after the Anfield game.
Ryan has had a fair few bosses for such a young player but he looked okay to me in his most recent appearances and there are lots of talented young players in the PL who don't turn on regular catch the eye displays. His talent is still there but, as always, he needs a good stage and a good script to give of his best.
His move