silva is a wonderful manager and I lovew how he has changed the team's approach and the adventurous style
BUT
Against WBA he got his team selection and tactics very wrong and took forever to make the necessary changes.
As a result of his poor tactics and team selection we saw terror run through the team and the confidence simply left all of them.
The idea of having no proper creative midfielder meaning seri or cairney on the pitch is ludicrous. surely as a minimum they could have done a half each. BDR on the left wing simply does not work.
as it was we invited WBA onto us and allowed them to look like worlkd beaters.
It did not help that mitro did not look 100% himself and seemed half a yard short of pace.
Once tom finally came on we started to look the part and cav certainly showed some life on the left that occupied their players, he should have been on from the start.
Silva was to blame for the poor performance, I saw it coming from the moment I saw the ridiculous team selection.
I still love him and usually he gets the team to bounce back in the game following a poor match so I hope that is so this time.
I think people need to accept that you can't win every single game of football; there's really no need to start apportioning blame. Just look at the league table.
I think this was just a game too far and I wasn't super confident going in...we'll have a break and regroup,it's still 11 points and was lucky b'mouth somehow managed to only draw
Quote from: ALG01 on March 16, 2022, 10:29:07 AM
silva is a wonderful manager and I lovew how he has changed the team's approach and the adventurous style
BUT
Against WBA he got his team selection and tactics very wrong and took forever to make the necessary changes.
As a result of his poor tactics and team selection we saw terror run through the team and the confidence simply left all of them.
The idea of having no proper creative midfielder meaning seri or cairney on the pitch is ludicrous. surely as a minimum they could have done a half each. BDR on the left wing simply does not work.
as it was we invited WBA onto us and allowed them to look like worlkd beaters.
It did not help that mitro did not look 100% himself and seemed half a yard short of pace.
Once tom finally came on we started to look the part and cav certainly showed some life on the left that occupied their players, he should have been on from the start.
Silva was to blame for the poor performance, I saw it coming from the moment I saw the ridiculous team selection.
I still love him and usually he gets the team to bounce back in the game following a poor match so I hope that is so this time.
Agree 100%, I think the substitutions needed to be made at 1/2 time, we weren't in the match.
I think the tactics were wrong.
And the sooner he stops playing Reed as an 8, the better. He charges about so with Fab running behind Mitro, we have no one in midfield and lose control. Cairney needs to start there.
Fully agree with the OP, our midfield lacked a playmaker, Cairney or Seri should have started.
Chalobah was prefered to counter the concern about Caroll and their other big strikers. Hopefully Silva will not make the same mistake again.
Quote from: filham on March 16, 2022, 01:08:34 PM
Fully agree with the OP, our midfield lacked a playmaker, Cairney or Seri should have started.
Chalobah was prefered to counter the concern about Caroll and their other big strikers. Hopefully Silva will not make the same mistake again.
+1.
We have barely any creativity and no CM who can play a killer ball when Cairney and/or Seri aren't playing.
Even the best teams in the world have off days where for various reasons they don't play as well as they can.
We put it behind us and go again
Quote from: Black and White Town on March 16, 2022, 03:07:25 PM
Even the best teams in the world have off days where for various reasons they don't play as well as they can.
We put it behind us and go again
That's true but in defeat we have to learn what went wrong and if it was correctable or just a bad day at the office and unfortunately this time, the team selection spoke volumes.
we have not been that good recently and team selection is an issue. we were poor at swansea until the sending off, poor at barnsley and now again. We may still have lost but to play without a 'playmaker' because you are worried that wba have a few big blokes is not a clever thing to do and it backfired.
Quote from: ALG01 on March 16, 2022, 03:15:52 PM
Quote from: Black and White Town on March 16, 2022, 03:07:25 PM
Even the best teams in the world have off days where for various reasons they don't play as well as they can.
We put it behind us and go again
That's true but in defeat we have to learn what went wrong and if it was correctable or just a bad day at the office and unfortunately this time, the team selection spoke volumes.
we have not been that good recently and team selection is an issue. we were poor at swansea until the sending off, poor at barnsley and now again. We may still have lost but to play without a 'playmaker' because you are worried that wba have a few big blokes is not a clever thing to do and it backfired.
Absolutely. Every match, whether we win or not, they should be reviewing it and seeing what could be improved, could we have done better, etc.
Absolutely love Silva but I don't think he got his team selection right and his subs were far too late. Added to which I'd have hooked off Chalobah as a first priority, how he played out the full 90 is beyond me.
Quote from: ALG01 on March 16, 2022, 03:15:52 PM
Quote from: Black and White Town on March 16, 2022, 03:07:25 PM
Even the best teams in the world have off days where for various reasons they don't play as well as they can.
We put it behind us and go again
That's true but in defeat we have to learn what went wrong and if it was correctable or just a bad day at the office and unfortunately this time, the team selection spoke volumes.
we have not been that good recently and team selection is an issue. we were poor at swansea until the sending off, poor at barnsley and now again. We may still have lost but to play without a 'playmaker' because you are worried that wba have a few big blokes is not a clever thing to do and it backfired.
I agree with you. My worry before the game was that we were trying to beat WBA at their game. We failed miserably in that regard because we don't have any good defensive midfielders. We would have been way better off trying to outplay them with talent instead. In my opinion.
Kebano clearly needs to start LW every game when fit.
Reed as a box to box midfielder is a square peg in a round hole.
Cairney or Seri needs to start each game to give us control in midfield.
Personally!
However Silva has done a great job, and it's tough to criticise when things going well. However I do think the above is fairly obvious and will take us to the next level.
Quote from: Black and White Town on March 16, 2022, 03:35:54 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on March 16, 2022, 03:15:52 PM
Quote from: Black and White Town on March 16, 2022, 03:07:25 PM
Even the best teams in the world have off days where for various reasons they don't play as well as they can.
We put it behind us and go again
That's true but in defeat we have to learn what went wrong and if it was correctable or just a bad day at the office and unfortunately this time, the team selection spoke volumes.
we have not been that good recently and team selection is an issue. we were poor at swansea until the sending off, poor at barnsley and now again. We may still have lost but to play without a 'playmaker' because you are worried that wba have a few big blokes is not a clever thing to do and it backfired.
Absolutely. Every match, whether we win or not, they should be reviewing it and seeing what could be improved, could we have done better, etc.
That defeat was overwhelming and more than jus a bad day at the office and the writing has been on the wall for a while.
Silva has some thinking to do coupled with hard work on the training ground.
I just hope Silva doesn't have any blind spots the way some of our previous managers have. Tigana persisting with Marlet as a central striker, Parker with Cav in a similar role. If Chalobah isn't up to snuff then it's better for Silva to accept he got this transfer wrong rather than persist to the detriment of the team and results.
Jeepers - what a lot of doom-mongering! We've been privileged to watch a host of wonderfully entertaining football under Marco Silva's tutelage this season and now that we've hit a lumpy patch he's a target man. Only the management know how fit or otherwise players are; only they see the training sessions; only they are aware of players' readiness to play and capability of pursuing particular tactics.
I'm guessing that another loss and you guys will be calling for Silva to be replaced as the useless manager who only managed to keep an 11 point lead at the top of the table and turned the team around from Parker ball to the best team in the championship by a country mile. Absolutely incredible.
Quote from: blingo on March 16, 2022, 05:53:31 PM
I'm guessing that another loss and you guys will be calling for Silva to be replaced as the useless manager who only managed to keep an 11 point lead at the top of the table and turned the team around from Parker ball to the best team in the championship by a country mile. Absolutely incredible.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on March 16, 2022, 05:38:36 PM
Jeepers - what a lot of doom-mongering! We've been privileged to watch a host of wonderfully entertaining football under Marco Silva's tutelage this season and now that we've hit a lumpy patch he's a target man. Only the management know how fit or otherwise players are; only they see the training sessions; only they are aware of players' readiness to play and capability of pursuing particular tactics.
Absolutely ridiculous reaction from so many to a 1-0 loss, at least the two above have some realism.
At least TK. is not in the firing line (YET).
Unless Seri or Cairney are unfit I would never start Chalobah
Fatigue, the opposition raising their game, 3 away games in 8 days, collectively players showing they're human and having an off-day, of course not it has to be the manager's fault. Embarrassing stuff
Quote from: bobby01 on March 16, 2022, 06:20:02 PM
Quote from: blingo on March 16, 2022, 05:53:31 PM
I'm guessing that another loss and you guys will be calling for Silva to be replaced as the useless manager who only managed to keep an 11 point lead at the top of the table and turned the team around from Parker ball to the best team in the championship by a country mile. Absolutely incredible.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on March 16, 2022, 05:38:36 PM
Jeepers - what a lot of doom-mongering! We've been privileged to watch a host of wonderfully entertaining football under Marco Silva's tutelage this season and now that we've hit a lumpy patch he's a target man. Only the management know how fit or otherwise players are; only they see the training sessions; only they are aware of players' readiness to play and capability of pursuing particular tactics.
Absolutely ridiculous reaction from so many to a 1-0 loss, at least the two above have some realism.
Nobody is saying anything other than that they totally support Silva and that he's the best manager we've had in years. Nothing realistic in a post suggesting that people will be calling for Silva to be replaced or one that waffles on about "players' readiness to play and capability of pursuing particular tactics".
Unless I've missed it there is no rule that says Silva's tactics or team selections are beyond question? All of our players are critiqued from time to time so the Manager should be no different. On this occasion some questions and criticisms have been raised, surely that's fair enough? As to doom-mongering.........where?
What I would question is the assumption that had Seri or Cairney (or both) started the game our performance would have been so much better. On Saturday, Seri played the first half and Cairney the second against a Barnsley team that didn't have as much about them as did West Brom last night, and we looked out of sorts for much of the time at Oakwell.
At Cardiff, a couple of weeks ago, moreover, Chalobah took Seri's place in the starting XI. Neither the team as a whole nor Chalobah, himself, were impressive that day but we won anyway. If those who have disagreed with Silva for picking Chalobah ahead of Seri and Cairney last night can point to a similar post of theirs after our victory in Wales, I shall tip my hat to you and say 'Fair enough'.
If not, recognising that Chalobah didn't make an impact against West Brom without blaming Silva or implying he ought to have known better seems fairer to me.
Quote from: Arthur on March 17, 2022, 02:51:19 AM
What I would question is the assumption that had Seri or Cairney (or both) started the game our performance would have been so much better. On Saturday, Seri played the first half and Cairney the second against a Barnsley team that didn't have as much about them as did West Brom last night, and we looked out of sorts for much of the time at Oakwell.
At Cardiff, a couple of weeks ago, moreover, Chalobah took Seri's place in the starting XI. Neither the team as a whole nor Chalobah, himself, were impressive that day but we won anyway. If those who have disagreed with Silva for picking Chalobah ahead of Seri and Cairney last night can point to a similar post of theirs after our victory in Wales, I shall tip my hat to you and say 'Fair enough'.
If not, recognising that Chalobah didn't make an impact against West Brom without blaming Silva or implying he ought to have known better seems fairer to me.
The assumption was that either seri or cairney should have started because they are playmakers and the team would have had better balance and not invited wba to attack us so relentlessly. as it was they only scored one from a ridiculous error from the LB (who by they way I do not think is good enough anyway) BUT we had not creativity and what has been so impressive this season is our adventure, so why change it?
If seri or tom had started we might have been worse, but the team selection would have been better and given us a better chance.
regarding cardiff and swansea, i was critical of both those performances despite the fact we won and many people just turned on me. Whethger And against barnsley, seri was very poor but once tom came on we looked a very doifferent outfit and that must have been clear to see, even for you. I said it on this forum or another on social media I can't recall because I am less inclined to use FoF this season.
The number of things that happened on Tuesday night, not just at the high altitude of the Hawthorns, but at the lower levels elsewhere were determined by whatever an individual chooses to believe in. The most wonderful striker in a league scored just to prove how right the coach was to pick him. The most inconsistent coach elsewhere managed to get a result because his opposite number on the night just wasn't thinking straight when he selected the wrong mix of midfielders. We can all claim to be right after the event but not many of us would own up to the many, many times we get things wrong. I would make a hopeless coach because I would not be able to concentrate on the job in hand 24/7/365 which is why I stick to the things I can do well to earn my income.
I didn't see anything wrong with us on Tuesday night at the Hawthorns other than a disjointed first half, followed by a very slight improvement after the break. Who was at fault? How about the whole team just didn't do what they were supposed to do, which, I would guess from Silva's POV, was not to concede during the whole game and rely on fast breaks to score when our opponents anxiety got the better of them. Instead we looked the more anxious team throughout.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on March 16, 2022, 05:38:36 PM
Jeepers - what a lot of doom-mongering! We've been privileged to watch a host of wonderfully entertaining football under Marco Silva's tutelage this season and now that we've hit a lumpy patch he's a target man. Only the management know how fit or otherwise players are; only they see the training sessions; only they are aware of players' readiness to play and capability of pursuing particular tactics.
+1 Spot on
Quote from: toshes mate on March 17, 2022, 10:20:38 AM
The number of things that happened on Tuesday night, not just at the high altitude of the Hawthorns, but at the lower levels elsewhere were determined by whatever an individual chooses to believe in. The most wonderful striker in a league scored just to prove how right the coach was to pick him. The most inconsistent coach elsewhere managed to get a result because his opposite number on the night just wasn't thinking straight when he selected the wrong mix of midfielders. We can all claim to be right after the event but not many of us would own up to the many, many times we get things wrong. I would make a hopeless coach because I would not be able to concentrate on the job in hand 24/7/365 which is why I stick to the things I can do well to earn my income.
I didn't see anything wrong with us on Tuesday night at the Hawthorns other than a disjointed first half, followed by a very slight improvement after the break. Who was at fault? How about the whole team just didn't do what they were supposed to do, which, I would guess from Silva's POV, was not to concede during the whole game and rely on fast breaks to score when our opponents anxiety got the better of them. Instead we looked the more anxious team throughout.
We all have off days Mr Tosh, and if anyone complaining on here can hold up his or her hand and honestly say they get it right every time they do something, i'll show you a liar. We got it wrong on the night, yes. Silva was fuming, yes. It's over, we are still ELEVEN points clear at the top with a better goal difference than any team in any league. What is it that people on here want? If we could achieve everything that some on here complain about we would be sitting one place above Man City, and I am sure that they would STILL find something to complain about. Let's enjoy the success we are having this season and praise both the team and Silva for what we are achieving, which I for one am gloating about.
But the OP discuss one game here and you discuss the whole season. These are different things.
It's easy to agree on the great FFC season and it was already said. But it should be allowed to discuss an individual games that are not all perfect.
Quote from: humussapiens on March 17, 2022, 11:02:14 AM
But the OP discuss one game here and you discuss the whole season. These are different things.
It's easy to agree on the great FFC season and it was already said. But it should be allowed to discuss an individual games that are not all perfect.
Of course it's allowed to discuss individual games, it's a discussion board after all Mr Hummus.
Quote from: MartyFFC on March 16, 2022, 07:39:57 PM
Fatigue, the opposition raising their game, 3 away games in 8 days, collectively players showing they're human and having an off-day, of course not it has to be the manager's fault. Embarrassing stuff
If you go back to the last home match it was 4 games in 10/11 days so let's cut the boys a bit of slack. Can you imagine what have been said had this been Liverpool, Man City or Man Utd. They would have all been whinging like mad. We now have 2 + weeks off so they will be back all fired up to go for the title.
I ain't even bothered TBH we are that far in front the boys can relax they did the hard work early in the season. Furthermore, we are 9 points mathematically away from Promotion. Huddersfield won't win their remaining 9 games that's for sure. Bournemouth as well are not capitalising even they throwing away leads left, right and centre. As long as we finish 1st and score 100 goals I am please. If Mitro gets to 40 goals be even more made up.
Yes the formation and selection needs to be changed.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on March 16, 2022, 05:38:36 PM
Jeepers - what a lot of doom-mongering! We've been privileged to watch a host of wonderfully entertaining football under Marco Silva's tutelage this season and now that we've hit a lumpy patch he's a target man. Only the management know how fit or otherwise players are; only they see the training sessions; only they are aware of players' readiness to play and capability of pursuing particular tactics.
I totally agree that only the management can judge fitness and readiness to play. However every time I see Muniz come onto the pitch after 75 minutes looking robust ,fit, skillful and with a willingness to take the game to the opposition I have to ask myself 'does this ability only exist for 15 minutes plus injury time?'
Quote from: humussapiens on March 17, 2022, 11:02:14 AM
But the OP discuss one game here and you discuss the whole season. These are different things.
It's easy to agree on the great FFC season and it was already said. But it should be allowed to discuss an individual games that are not all perfect.
A whole season is made up of 46 games and so discussion about individual games has to take account of all games played. Indeed ALG01 to his credit mentions that in the OP and expands that argument in his later comment about games where we got a result but he didn't think the team played as well as he want them to.
My personal take is that I don't know what went wrong on Tuesday other than a number of our attacks broke down resulting in losses of possession. That has happened in every game I have ever watched since I started watching football. Is Silva infallible? Of course he isn't, but he has produced a wonderful season for us thus far. Long may it continue but can one individual ever iron out the blips that also come with the good stuff?