Could Cairney be our play maker in the prem... pinging the ball's in a Murphy role....or has Prem football moved on from this approach
Different game today.That midfield would struggle for physique and pace.
Yes we need more pace and definitely a more physical presence otherwise we are going to get our backsides kicked.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 03, 2022, 03:15:56 AM
Yes we need more pace and definitely a more physical presence otherwise we are going to get our backsides kicked.
Agreed.
Al-Musrati seemingly has the physical credentials to play a physical enforcer type role, and he can pass the ball.
Reed I think can do stuff in the Prem, but Chalobah's idea of a tackle, is to push the opposition player over and concede a free kick, the thing is I could do that, for a lot less each match.
But, what about Cairney...could he do the job of pinging the ball about or is that type of football dead & buried
Tom is class on the ball . Not sure he is good enough defensively where all players in the side have to participate both ways in the PL
TC has been injured the last 2 Relagated seasons so if he starts fit it's almost like a new player in the premier league.
Quote from: hovewhite on June 03, 2022, 08:06:20 AM
TC has been injured the last 2 Relagated seasons so if he starts fit it's almost like a new player in the premier league.
Huge IF. Tbh I don't think he'll ever be fully fit again - he's been playing with a dodgy knee for years now sadly.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on June 03, 2022, 07:47:40 AM
But, what about Cairney...could he do the job of pinging the ball about or is that type of football dead & buried
If we have better players with him than Reed and Chalobah (a combination that was very unimpressive in the Championship) I am 100 % convinced that TC can do the business in the PL (partly because I have already witnessed it with my own eyes on several occasions). We have already seen that when he is on his game he can be very good even at the highest level, his ball retention and passing is of high PL standard.
I think TC's level of involvement will depend a lot on how Silva will chose to set the team up, but if we manage to acquire a PL level defensive midfielder it would really work in his favour.
Based on Chalobah's performance for us last season he is nowhere near Premier League quality.
If Silva can find a different role for Reed I think he can play a part for us in the Premier League, at least as a backup DM (but definitely not in the more attacking role he played most of last season).
Cairney is too slow on the ball and too one-footed for the Premier League. Sadly he's not quite good enough to be a regular starter IMO, plus we proably can't expect him to stay match fit for a full season.
With Carvalho gone we desperately need reinforcements in midfield.
Agree that reeds issue is that he's clearly more comfortable playing in a defensive role. The number 8 role didn't suit, but it was often because seri was chosen there. TC is class, and alongside a more dynamic defensive mf ( ot sure that is Reed or Chalobah) he could shine.
It is my belief that our midfield issues became confused during our first PL outing. Jokanovic utilised a potent mix of defensive and attacking guile in players like Johansen and McDonald, who have good game reading qualities. The support gained from the likes of Norwood etc., was a continuum of this utilatarian policy. The advent of Seri and Anguissa was based upon quality but not in the utility sense. It was the continental sense of midfield essentials. It could be made to work as Jokanovic proved at Anfield - his last game - when Anguissa was subbed by Johansen and Cairney subbed by Seri, and although we lost the game (and the best coach we have had for a long while) it was probably our best performance of the season.
It is IMO the defensive midfielder's versatility which offers so much to both defence and attack, that is has to be a key role for Marco Silva to fill. It would also free space up for Cairney to figure in games provided tactics allow for protected possession. Reed certainly has much of the skill set required but I think height may be a factor our coaches may want to think about too. I am not at all sure about Chalobah.
Cairney is quality and could easily hold his own with right support players around him. The issue is Reed and Chalobah. I'm not confident that either have the ability step up to the rigours of the Premier League on a regular basis. I see both as back up players, but recognise that for FFP reasons one of them may have to play more games than is ideal.
Very unimpressed with Chalobah in the championship. His workrate and passing were poor for that division so nowhere near EPL quality imo.
In one match last season, Silva subbed Chalobah onto the pitch with 6 / 7 minutes he's conceded 3 / 4 free kicks.
Cairney is great in possession, but does lose the ball, unless he's 100% on his game.
I though Reed did well in the Premier in the deep defensive role.He won a lot of tackles and rarely seemed outclassed from what I remember. I had him as our best non-loanee player that season and was expecting him to be a dominant force this year. This season I've been disappointed in him but the different role may account for it.
If we go 4-2-3-1 and manage to get Matic signed, I think Reed and Matic would be a perfect shield in front of the back 4.
Chalobah has not impressed me in the Championship and in my view, he should be fighting for a place on the 9 man bench rather than being on the teamsheet
The problem for me is we are not going to dominate possession in that many games, which means we will fighting to get the ball back. This year we had a fast, marathon running Carvahlo in the 10 role which Tc could never replicate. Carvahlo won lots of ball back and his mobility and movement freed up so much space for others.
I see Cairney as great player to have in the squad ,and amen to bring off the bench or start selected home games. we need pace and movement in the front 4 players.
The midfield is the area of our team where there is maximum concern. Having lost Carvalho, Seri and Anguissa it would seem reinforcement are clearly needed.
If Cairney has overcome all his injury problems then he could again become the kingpin but there is doubt and a complete rebuild of this key area could be necessary
Silva is going to bring a different 'mindset'. I don't think it's going to be about just 'survival'. He has a 'huge' point to prove.
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 11:54:06 AM
Cairney is great in possession, but does lose the ball, unless he's 100% on his game.
I'd say he's the player in our team that loses the ball the least, his ability to keep possession is superb. Bettered only by dembel mk1 in last 20 ish years imo.
Quote from: Jim© on June 03, 2022, 04:02:56 PM
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 11:54:06 AM
Cairney is great in possession, but does lose the ball, unless he's 100% on his game.
I'd say he's the player in our team that loses the ball the least, his ability to keep possession is superb. Bettered only by dembel mk1 in last 20 ish years imo.
You say that, but it's not great when that loss results directly in a goal, happened at times last season. In the Premiership you get punished a lot more because of the 'quality'.
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 03:55:57 PM
Silva is going to bring a different 'mindset'. I don't think it's going to be about just 'survival'. He has a 'huge' point to prove.
Then the midfield has to be full of quality with pace, power and skill and TK will need to empty his pockets.
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: Jim© on June 03, 2022, 04:02:56 PM
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 11:54:06 AM
Cairney is great in possession, but does lose the ball, unless he's 100% on his game.
I'd say he's the player in our team that loses the ball the least, his ability to keep possession is superb. Bettered only by dembel mk1 in last 20 ish years imo.
You say that, but it's not great when that loss results directly in a goal, happened at times last season. In the Premiership you get punished a lot more because of the 'quality'.
But doesn't other players losing the ball also result in goals against? Losing the ball less is surely a good thing? I agree with the previous poster that we are far less likely to lose the ball if we give it to TC. He may not be a great tackler, or heavily involved defensively, but he helps us not having to defend as much, and he helps us breathe by keeping the ball even under pressure. Those are also qualities that helps out defensively.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 03, 2022, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: Jim© on June 03, 2022, 04:02:56 PM
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 11:54:06 AM
Cairney is great in possession, but does lose the ball, unless he's 100% on his game.
I'd say he's the player in our team that loses the ball the least, his ability to keep possession is superb. Bettered only by dembel mk1 in last 20 ish years imo.
You say that, but it's not great when that loss results directly in a goal, happened at times last season. In the Premiership you get punished a lot more because of the 'quality'.
But doesn't other players losing the ball also result in goals against? Losing the ball less is surely a good thing? I agree with the previous poster that we are far less likely to lose the ball if we give it to TC. He may not be a great tackler, or heavily involved defensively, but he helps us not having to defend as much, and he helps us breathe by keeping the ball even under pressure. Those are also qualities that helps out defensively.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 03, 2022, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: Jim© on June 03, 2022, 04:02:56 PM
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 11:54:06 AM
Cairney is great in possession, but does lose the ball, unless he's 100% on his game.
I'd say he's the player in our team that loses the ball the least, his ability to keep possession is superb. Bettered only by dembel mk1 in last 20 ish years imo.
You say that, but it's not great when that loss results directly in a goal, happened at times last season. In the Premiership you get punished a lot more because of the 'quality'.
But doesn't other players losing the ball also result in goals against? Losing the ball less is surely a good thing? I agree with the previous poster that we are far less likely to lose the ball if we give it to TC. He may not be a great tackler, or heavily involved defensively, but he helps us not having to defend as much, and he helps us breathe by keeping the ball even under pressure. Those are also qualities that helps out defensively.
Previously under Slav he doesn't lose the ball. His performances has been'chalk and cheese'. I know people go on about injuries etc.
I think passes the ball back towards our goal then he has ever done, so we aren't seeing as many penetrative forward passes.
If Tom could use both feet he would be on a different level. Trouble is that in the top level it's a prerequisite and unfortunately he can't.
I think stats wouldn't back you up rebel. Neither does the eye test, in my opinion.
Quote from: Sting of the North on June 03, 2022, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: Jim© on June 03, 2022, 04:02:56 PM
Quote from: rebel on June 03, 2022, 11:54:06 AM
Cairney is great in possession, but does lose the ball, unless he's 100% on his game.
I'd say he's the player in our team that loses the ball the least, his ability to keep possession is superb. Bettered only by dembel mk1 in last 20 ish years imo.
You say that, but it's not great when that loss results directly in a goal, happened at times last season. In the Premiership you get punished a lot more because of the 'quality'.
But doesn't other players losing the ball also result in goals against? Losing the ball less is surely a good thing? I agree with the previous poster that we are far less likely to lose the ball if we give it to TC. He may not be a great tackler, or heavily involved defensively, but he helps us not having to defend as much, and he helps us breathe by keeping the ball even under pressure. Those are also qualities that helps out defensively.
100% agreed