At his Wolves pre-match press conference today, Silva gave an update on the injuries to Solomon and Wilson. He suggested that Wilson could be out from six to eight weeks. As for Solomon, he's going to be having surgery after which they'd have a better idea of how long he'd be out but Silva did say that it's likely to be longer than Wilson.
https://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2022/august/11/team-news-surgery-for-solomon/
brilliant.....
Just to add to this, Silva said long term for Solomon as well as Wilson but then went on to say he classifies a 6-8 week injury as long term so it's not quite as dramatic as it sounds, albeit Solomon is probably out until November. Extract from his press conference today;
We have to see week by week," he said of Wilson. "It doesn't look as long as Manor Solomon. It could be six to eight weeks, which would be a long-term injury for us. We are talking many games without two players to play."
Total disaster for Wilson to miss the WC
Solomon - didn't sound like he will be back until after WC
Bloody unlucky
Quote from: Baszab on August 11, 2022, 03:31:12 PM
Total disaster for Wilson to miss the WC
Solomon - didn't sound like he will be back until after WC
Bloody unlucky
Wilson will be back in 8 weeks at the latest, that is the first week of October and if its 6 weeks then you're looking at mid-late September so no reason why he doesn't make the WC squad. Solomon will be around mid-late October
Sounds very bad for us, immediately downgraded our wing options and a lot is riding on the new players coming in, plus Reid and Kebano performing at their top level.
Bad luck for us, but especially for these two young men.
It must be a great life to be a top notch pro footballer, but that life can occasionally serve up an unexpected setback.
Hope their WC hopes remain intact.
What kind of injury? And what match was he playing, on the day AFTER the Liverpool game?
Quote from: ealex40 on August 12, 2022, 12:26:46 AM
What kind of injury? And what match was he playing, on the day AFTER the Liverpool game?
I think a miniscus tear
We played another behind closed doors match against Chelsea. It was for players who needed match fitness
One of the new recruits had to have an injury - them's the rules
Makes the prospective Kluivert signing all the more important.
With Cav frozen out what are our wide options if (God forbid) BDR or Kebano were to go down?
https://twitter.com/WhiteNoise1879/status/1557780859293503493
Solomon has chose the trimming meniscus surgery type which allows a much faster recovery. Good news.
Expecting him to bounce back faster than expected and show how lethal he can be. It's hard for me to see us bringing a replacement at the same quality level.
Hopefully Wilson returns within 6 weeks as well.
Can't wait to see how we perform with a complete squad under MS.
Quote from: Baszab on August 11, 2022, 03:31:12 PM
Total disaster for Wilson to miss the WC
Solomon - didn't sound like he will be back until after WC
Bloody unlucky
Neither of these things are true and no one has said anything like this, not sure why you would pretend this is true.
I love that average recovery time of 57.5 days. what's the .5 about - does it mean he cant start walking until 12 noon that day? fecking comical!
Quote from: Cobh Fulham Fan on August 12, 2022, 05:16:32 PM
I love that average recovery time of 57.5 days. what's the .5 about - does it mean he cant start walking until 12 noon that day? fecking comical!
You are aware of how maths works to obtain an average?
Quote from: Deeping_white on August 12, 2022, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Cobh Fulham Fan on August 12, 2022, 05:16:32 PM
I love that average recovery time of 57.5 days. what's the .5 about - does it mean he cant start walking until 12 noon that day? fecking comical!
You are aware of how maths works to obtain an average?
Yeah and I bet he's also heard about rounding to the nearest whole number and even spurious accuracy. Of course 57.5 is an arithmetic average but it's also a pretty sill concept you surely must agree?
A little more clarity on the timeline for Solomon's return from Peter Rutzler.
https://twitter.com/peterrutzler/status/1559216436786171904?s=20&t=5DcZUCBp5GmSeaAwl-JG7Q
Quote from: Chi_FFC on August 15, 2022, 05:37:14 PM
A little more clarity on the timeline for Solomon's return from Peter Rutzler.
https://twitter.com/peterrutzler/status/1559216436786171904?s=20&t=5DcZUCBp5GmSeaAwl-JG7Q
Yikes
What a stupid decision to have him play in a meaningless behind-the-scenes friendly the day after a match day. He'd been training for weeks, just give him 20-30 minute cameos like he had and build him up that way. All that chat about needing players to bed for weeks just seems overboard to me. He came on and immediately sent Mitro through with a great pass which led to the penalty.
Ah well, done now.
What a shame, he really seems a talent and thats a huge amount of time to miss him for.
Quote from: jayffc on August 15, 2022, 06:10:37 PM
Quote from: Chi_FFC on August 15, 2022, 05:37:14 PM
A little more clarity on the timeline for Solomon's return from Peter Rutzler.
https://twitter.com/peterrutzler/status/1559216436786171904?s=20&t=5DcZUCBp5GmSeaAwl-JG7Q
Yikes
What a stupid decision to have him play in a meaningless behind-the-scenes friendly the day after a match day. He'd been training for weeks, just give him 20-30 minute cameos like he had and build him up that way. All that chat about needing players to bed for weeks just seems overboard to me. He came on and immediately sent Mitro through with a great pass which led to the penalty.
Ah well, done now.
What a shame, he really seems a talent and thats a huge amount of time to miss him for.
Yep. I know people will say who are we to say it was silly, but when stuff like this happens, how can you not question it. Yes it could happen at anytime and in any game, but you only increase those odds playing in games as meaningless as this a day after coming on for the first team. So gutted about this.
Well I guess Silva didn't think it was meaningless and it was needed. He came on for what 20 minutes on Saturday, hardly a good run out.
If he done on the training pitch we would be saying that's just bad luck.
He didn't get injured in a tackle, so it might as well have happened during a training session.
I see Mackintosh is dithering getting replacements in.
Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
Quote from: alfie on August 15, 2022, 06:55:28 PM
Well I guess Silva didn't think it was meaningless and it was needed. He came on for what 20 minutes on Saturday, hardly a good run out.
If he done on the training pitch we would be saying that's just bad luck.
I guess so, and now he's injured for 3 months. I'd hazard a guess at the very least, Silva will be questioning whether it was worth it now. Maybe not but I think if I was a manager or coach, with cup games coming up and he's already shown with what little he did play that he'd likely be a big impact player for us, I'd be kicking myself for letting it occur. Yes, could of happened at training, but usually players get the day off after being in a match day squad, even the guys who are unused subs, so it's not like us pointing this out is wrong or needlessly criticising. Injuries are a part of the game but at the least you can see you heighten odds by playing in games like this.
Quote from: Blawarmy on August 15, 2022, 07:00:40 PM
I see Mackintosh is dithering getting replacements in.
Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
A) You have no idea what's going on, B) Any player who comes in does so knowing they're only guaranteed a start for two months until our best wingers start returning from injury and so it makes it harder to convince anyone of decent quality to join knowing they're a stop-gap, C) This is an un-planned transfer requirement so they can't just go "F*ck it" lets drop £10m+ on someone based on my previous point because you'd have to convince them to join and also the fact it eats into the budget that was clearly set out at this point to give us depth in CM and a centre forward/utility forward, that now requires some backup planning to give Silva the squad he wants
Quote from: Blawarmy on August 15, 2022, 07:00:40 PM
I see Mackintosh is dithering getting replacements in.
Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
Based on what, exactly?
Quote from: Tabby on August 15, 2022, 06:58:22 PM
He didn't get injured in a tackle, so it might as well have happened during a training session.
Exactly. By all published accounts, it was a non-contact injury.
If you see how small he is,will his body take the riggers of premier league football,which concerns me more.It might be a blessing hes only a loan at the moment.
Fulham's Manor Solomon sidelined until after World Cup following knee surgery
By Peter Rutzler
Aug 15, 2022
Fulham winger Manor Solomon is unlikely to feature for his new club again until after the World Cup, The Athletic understands.
The Israel international confirmed on Monday that he had undergone surgery after suffering a knee injury in a behind-closed-doors match last week, and that he will now miss the 'next few months'. It is understood that he will be out for around three months, which means he is unlikely to feature for Marco Silva's side until after this winter's World Cup in Qatar.
The World Cup begins on November 20, with Fulham's final Premier League match before the mid-season break taking place on November 12, against Manchester United. The top flight resumes on Boxing Day (December 26).
Solomon said on Twitter: "The last few days have been difficult for me. I injured my knee in a friendly game which caused me to have a surgery and miss the next few months.
"Thank you for your messages and support, I'll be back stronger and better, see you soon."
The unfortunate injury blow leaves Fulham without two key attacking players in wide areas. Harry Wilson is also sidelined with a longer term knee injury, although the Wales international is expected to return before Solomon and in time for the World Cup.
Fulham are in the market for a forward player, with Marco Silva stating after Saturday's 0-0 draw with Wolves that the team "need another midfielder, as well as another player for the attack line".
"We have to have more solutions to compete and I hope that we can do it (before) the end of the market, because we need it," he said.
Solomon is a new signing at Craven Cottage, having officially arrived from Shakhtar Donetsk on a temporary one-year deal earlier this month. He made his Premier League debut from the bench against Liverpool, before suffering a knee injury last Sunday.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: alfie on August 15, 2022, 06:55:28 PM
Well I guess Silva didn't think it was meaningless and it was needed. He came on for what 20 minutes on Saturday, hardly a good run out.
If he done on the training pitch we would be saying that's just bad luck.
I guess so, and now he's injured for 3 months. I'd hazard a guess at the very least, Silva will be questioning whether it was worth it now. Maybe not but I think if I was a manager or coach, with cup games coming up and he's already shown with what little he did play that he'd likely be a big impact player for us, I'd be kicking myself for letting it occur. Yes, could of happened at training, but usually players get the day off after being in a match day squad, even the guys who are unused subs, so it's not like us pointing this out is wrong or needlessly criticising. Injuries are a part of the game but at the least you can see you heighten odds by playing in games like this.
I know it's a hard concept for us to understand but injuries are entirely random in life. Correlation is not proof of causation.
Some vehicle drivers manage a whole lifetime covering many thousands of miles without ever having even the slightest accident. Other drivers have really serious accidents and never have the chance to drive again.
Sometimes we injure ourselves just moving awkwardly and sometimes that injury doesn't show up until we do something else that stresses the area concerned.
It's sad for both players and the Club but such is life.
There is a risk in everything we do even if we did nothing at all.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 16, 2022, 10:11:02 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: alfie on August 15, 2022, 06:55:28 PM
Well I guess Silva didn't think it was meaningless and it was needed. He came on for what 20 minutes on Saturday, hardly a good run out.
If he done on the training pitch we would be saying that's just bad luck.
I guess so, and now he's injured for 3 months. I'd hazard a guess at the very least, Silva will be questioning whether it was worth it now. Maybe not but I think if I was a manager or coach, with cup games coming up and he's already shown with what little he did play that he'd likely be a big impact player for us, I'd be kicking myself for letting it occur. Yes, could of happened at training, but usually players get the day off after being in a match day squad, even the guys who are unused subs, so it's not like us pointing this out is wrong or needlessly criticising. Injuries are a part of the game but at the least you can see you heighten odds by playing in games like this.
I know it's a hard concept for us to understand but injuries are entirely random in life. Correlation is not proof of causation.
Some vehicle drivers manage a whole lifetime covering many thousands of miles without ever having even the slightest accident. Other drivers have really serious accidents and never have the chance to drive again.
Sometimes we injure ourselves just moving awkwardly and sometimes that injury doesn't show up until we do something else that stresses the area concerned.
It's sad for both players and the Club but such is life.
There is a risk in everything we do even if we did nothing at all.
I do agree with you to an extent. But odds are, more you're on the road/pitch, higher the probability of injury/accident. The smoking analogy comes up here too. 'I know people who smoked all their lives and didn't have anything to worry about', well, the stats for that don't hold up. Same with this really. Some players are blessed without injury and lots of playing time, some, far less fortunate for a variety of reasons but the main thing here is, why was a player part of two match day squads in two days. I reached out further to my old academy group, some still coaches with various clubs (youth academies) and not one has said the club allows this so I'm still, astonished Fulham did it.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 10:20:54 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 16, 2022, 10:11:02 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: alfie on August 15, 2022, 06:55:28 PM
Well I guess Silva didn't think it was meaningless and it was needed. He came on for what 20 minutes on Saturday, hardly a good run out.
If he done on the training pitch we would be saying that's just bad luck.
I guess so, and now he's injured for 3 months. I'd hazard a guess at the very least, Silva will be questioning whether it was worth it now. Maybe not but I think if I was a manager or coach, with cup games coming up and he's already shown with what little he did play that he'd likely be a big impact player for us, I'd be kicking myself for letting it occur. Yes, could of happened at training, but usually players get the day off after being in a match day squad, even the guys who are unused subs, so it's not like us pointing this out is wrong or needlessly criticising. Injuries are a part of the game but at the least you can see you heighten odds by playing in games like this.
I know it's a hard concept for us to understand but injuries are entirely random in life. Correlation is not proof of causation.
Some vehicle drivers manage a whole lifetime covering many thousands of miles without ever having even the slightest accident. Other drivers have really serious accidents and never have the chance to drive again.
Sometimes we injure ourselves just moving awkwardly and sometimes that injury doesn't show up until we do something else that stresses the area concerned.
It's sad for both players and the Club but such is life.
There is a risk in everything we do even if we did nothing at all.
I do agree with you to an extent. But odds are, more you're on the road/pitch, higher the probability of injury/accident. The smoking analogy comes up here too. 'I know people who smoked all their lives and didn't have anything to worry about', well, the stats for that don't hold up. Same with this really. Some players are blessed without injury and lots of playing time, some, far less fortunate for a variety of reasons but the main thing here is, why was a player part of two match day squads in two days. I reached out further to my old academy group, some still coaches with various clubs (youth academies) and not one has said the club allows this so I'm still, astonished Fulham did it.
I know it's hard to understand but the highlighted remark about 'odds' is simply untrue and this has been proven many, many times scientifically. The problem is randomness and the fact it has no regard to or memory of the past. Probability measures risk between uncertainty and certainty but doesn't account for randomness simply because we have absolutely no way of introducing it in any secure mathematical way. Randomness is a product of infinity which isn't bounded by certainty or uncertainty - it just happens when it feels like happening. That is why humans are hopeless at predictions - we either get lucky or not as the case may be- but we do love to believe we are somehow in control ...
Quote from: toshes mate on August 16, 2022, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 10:20:54 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 16, 2022, 10:11:02 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: alfie on August 15, 2022, 06:55:28 PM
Well I guess Silva didn't think it was meaningless and it was needed. He came on for what 20 minutes on Saturday, hardly a good run out.
If he done on the training pitch we would be saying that's just bad luck.
I guess so, and now he's injured for 3 months. I'd hazard a guess at the very least, Silva will be questioning whether it was worth it now. Maybe not but I think if I was a manager or coach, with cup games coming up and he's already shown with what little he did play that he'd likely be a big impact player for us, I'd be kicking myself for letting it occur. Yes, could of happened at training, but usually players get the day off after being in a match day squad, even the guys who are unused subs, so it's not like us pointing this out is wrong or needlessly criticising. Injuries are a part of the game but at the least you can see you heighten odds by playing in games like this.
I know it's a hard concept for us to understand but injuries are entirely random in life. Correlation is not proof of causation.
Some vehicle drivers manage a whole lifetime covering many thousands of miles without ever having even the slightest accident. Other drivers have really serious accidents and never have the chance to drive again.
Sometimes we injure ourselves just moving awkwardly and sometimes that injury doesn't show up until we do something else that stresses the area concerned.
It's sad for both players and the Club but such is life.
There is a risk in everything we do even if we did nothing at all.
I do agree with you to an extent. But odds are, more you're on the road/pitch, higher the probability of injury/accident. The smoking analogy comes up here too. 'I know people who smoked all their lives and didn't have anything to worry about', well, the stats for that don't hold up. Same with this really. Some players are blessed without injury and lots of playing time, some, far less fortunate for a variety of reasons but the main thing here is, why was a player part of two match day squads in two days. I reached out further to my old academy group, some still coaches with various clubs (youth academies) and not one has said the club allows this so I'm still, astonished Fulham did it.
I know it's hard to understand but the highlighted remark about 'odds' is simply untrue and this has been proven many, many times scientifically. The problem is randomness and the fact it has no regard to or memory of the past. Probability measures risk between uncertainty and certainty but doesn't account for randomness simply because we have absolutely no way of introducing it in any secure mathematical way. Randomness is a product of infinity which isn't bounded by certainty or uncertainty - it just happens when it feels like happening. That is why humans are hopeless at predictions - we either get lucky or not as the case may be- but we do love to believe we are somehow in control ...
Won't clog this up, but all peer reviewed papers I've seen would suggest the more and longer a player plays on a pitch, the higher his level of injury to occur is. What that injury is, and how it occurs is random, and pending muscle rehab methods/periods factor, but its just wrong to think this isn't the case. hence why they put in rules to mitigate this.
Really really FULHAMISH this happens to us before the season is up and running. A fully fit squad is essential for our survival and given that, I would fancy our chances to surprise everyone. So unfortunate. Let's hope Neeskans and BDR can continue to perform well and save us until Solomon and Wilson return.
COYLW
It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).
The only reason people are annoyed is because he got injured, obviously. But marginal rsk of injury is not a reason to get players up to match fitness in order for them to make a bigger impact more quickly, or indeed reduce chances of injury when physical intensity is raised in actual games
It's crap but injuries happen, and new signings are no less liable to this. Just look at the new cbs at villa and w ham.
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).
The only reason people are annoyed is because he got injured, obviously. But marginal rsk of injury is not a reason to get players up to match fitness in order for them to make a bigger impact more quickly, or indeed reduce chances of injury when physical intensity is raised in actual games
It's crap but injuries happen, and new signings are no less liable to this. Just look at the new cbs at villa and w ham.
'It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).'
The point here, isn't anger, it's understanding. And that sentence is incorrect. It's not standard practice to be in two match day squads in 2 days. It's the opposite at pretty much every club that players aren't in two match day squads, hence the understanding part is where the frustration is at.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).
The only reason people are annoyed is because he got injured, obviously. But marginal rsk of injury is not a reason to get players up to match fitness in order for them to make a bigger impact more quickly, or indeed reduce chances of injury when physical intensity is raised in actual games
It's crap but injuries happen, and new signings are no less liable to this. Just look at the new cbs at villa and w ham.
'It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).'
The point here, isn't anger, it's understanding. And that sentence is incorrect. It's not standard practice to be in two match day squads in 2 days. It's the opposite at pretty much every club that players aren't in two match day squads, hence the understanding part is where the frustration is at.
He didn't play a full game on the Saturday, then took part in a friendly - a non-competitive game, only there to give an opportunity for players to get up to match fitness.
I can't believe that Fulham don't have training staff fully versed in the physiology of player fitness, and they made the decision that playing in this non -competitive game was the best thing to get him up to fitness safely.
This seems like a freak injury, but these things happen - you can get an injury just going for a jog - stumble over something, even a slight rise in the ground, twist an ankle or a knee.
It's just bad luck, one of those things. Players get injured during pre-game warm-ups.
I was positioned funny and strained my hamstring while sleeping, should I not go to bed anymore?
The late great Roger Brown was injured in his very first game for us playing against Chelsea. He went on to be quite good.
Life is not great sometimes. But both Solomon and Fulham will persevere.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).
The only reason people are annoyed is because he got injured, obviously. But marginal rsk of injury is not a reason to get players up to match fitness in order for them to make a bigger impact more quickly, or indeed reduce chances of injury when physical intensity is raised in actual games
It's crap but injuries happen, and new signings are no less liable to this. Just look at the new cbs at villa and w ham.
'It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).'
The point here, isn't anger, it's understanding. And that sentence is incorrect. It's not standard practice to be in two match day squads in 2 days. It's the opposite at pretty much every club that players aren't in two match day squads, hence the understanding part is where the frustration is at.
I can only imagine that a professional athlete that plays for 20 minutes or so one day will be more than capable of playing in a friendly game the following day (who knows but very likely that he wouldn't have played the full 90 second time around). Look at the friendlies we played in Portugal.
After all, they train day in, day out to differing levels of intensity. It's all about conditioning and believe it or not, luck.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).
The only reason people are annoyed is because he got injured, obviously. But marginal rsk of injury is not a reason to get players up to match fitness in order for them to make a bigger impact more quickly, or indeed reduce chances of injury when physical intensity is raised in actual games
It's crap but injuries happen, and new signings are no less liable to this. Just look at the new cbs at villa and w ham.
'It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).'
The point here, isn't anger, it's understanding. And that sentence is incorrect. It's not standard practice to be in two match day squads in 2 days. It's the opposite at pretty much every club that players aren't in two match day squads, hence the understanding part is where the frustration is at.
That is incorrect I am afraid. For example: villareals back to back friendlies against ourselves and Southampton. Another example might be Chilwell who was on the bench on Sunday and playing vs our reserves on Monday.
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 05:50:05 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).
The only reason people are annoyed is because he got injured, obviously. But marginal rsk of injury is not a reason to get players up to match fitness in order for them to make a bigger impact more quickly, or indeed reduce chances of injury when physical intensity is raised in actual games
It's crap but injuries happen, and new signings are no less liable to this. Just look at the new cbs at villa and w ham.
'It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).'
The point here, isn't anger, it's understanding. And that sentence is incorrect. It's not standard practice to be in two match day squads in 2 days. It's the opposite at pretty much every club that players aren't in two match day squads, hence the understanding part is where the frustration is at.
That is incorrect I am afraid. For example: villareals back to back friendlies against ourselves and Southampton. Another example might be Chilwell who was on the bench on Sunday and playing vs our reserves on Monday.
They're anomalies not rules. They are actual rules from at least 6 academies I've spoken to. Which again, is why I think it's weird. As I mentioned, maybe that's just not the rule at Fulham anymore but it certainly used to be.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 06:46:07 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 05:50:05 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).
The only reason people are annoyed is because he got injured, obviously. But marginal rsk of injury is not a reason to get players up to match fitness in order for them to make a bigger impact more quickly, or indeed reduce chances of injury when physical intensity is raised in actual games
It's crap but injuries happen, and new signings are no less liable to this. Just look at the new cbs at villa and w ham.
'It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).'
The point here, isn't anger, it's understanding. And that sentence is incorrect. It's not standard practice to be in two match day squads in 2 days. It's the opposite at pretty much every club that players aren't in two match day squads, hence the understanding part is where the frustration is at.
That is incorrect I am afraid. For example: villareals back to back friendlies against ourselves and Southampton. Another example might be Chilwell who was on the bench on Sunday and playing vs our reserves on Monday.
They're anomalies not rules. They are actual rules from at least 6 academies I've spoken to. Which again, is why I think it's weird. As I mentioned, maybe that's just not the rule at Fulham anymore but it certainly used to be.
You may be right, but who makes that rule, surely it's down to the team manager to decide who plays where and when.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 06:46:07 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 05:50:05 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).
The only reason people are annoyed is because he got injured, obviously. But marginal rsk of injury is not a reason to get players up to match fitness in order for them to make a bigger impact more quickly, or indeed reduce chances of injury when physical intensity is raised in actual games
It's crap but injuries happen, and new signings are no less liable to this. Just look at the new cbs at villa and w ham.
'It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).'
The point here, isn't anger, it's understanding. And that sentence is incorrect. It's not standard practice to be in two match day squads in 2 days. It's the opposite at pretty much every club that players aren't in two match day squads, hence the understanding part is where the frustration is at.
That is incorrect I am afraid. For example: villareals back to back friendlies against ourselves and Southampton. Another example might be Chilwell who was on the bench on Sunday and playing vs our reserves on Monday.
They're anomalies not rules. They are actual rules from at least 6 academies I've spoken to. Which again, is why I think it's weird. As I mentioned, maybe that's just not the rule at Fulham anymore but it certainly used to be.
I did not say they are rules. They are indeed examples that show it is not a rule followed by every other club. It will flex based on player needs and profile.
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 08:14:07 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 06:46:07 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 05:50:05 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 16, 2022, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: LRCN on August 16, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).
The only reason people are annoyed is because he got injured, obviously. But marginal rsk of injury is not a reason to get players up to match fitness in order for them to make a bigger impact more quickly, or indeed reduce chances of injury when physical intensity is raised in actual games
It's crap but injuries happen, and new signings are no less liable to this. Just look at the new cbs at villa and w ham.
'It's a bit weird all this anger at what is standard practice (letting a guy who hadn't played much football for weeks to play football games to generate match fitness and sharpness).'
The point here, isn't anger, it's understanding. And that sentence is incorrect. It's not standard practice to be in two match day squads in 2 days. It's the opposite at pretty much every club that players aren't in two match day squads, hence the understanding part is where the frustration is at.
That is incorrect I am afraid. For example: villareals back to back friendlies against ourselves and Southampton. Another example might be Chilwell who was on the bench on Sunday and playing vs our reserves on Monday.
They're anomalies not rules. They are actual rules from at least 6 academies I've spoken to. Which again, is why I think it's weird. As I mentioned, maybe that's just not the rule at Fulham anymore but it certainly used to be.
I did not say they are rules. They are indeed examples that show it is not a rule followed by every other club. It will flex based on player needs and profile.
Sure. That's been mentioned previously. As I originally said I'm surprised as I reached out to a number of coaches still in setups including Norwich, Ipswich and Southampton and they seemed surprised it's not universal. Clearly as you pointed out it's not and it's happened. Ah well.
As I stated very clearly human beings cannot cope with randomness because we like, to differeing degrees, to be (or seem to be) in control. All the clubs in the world of football have human beings struggling with the concept of randomness and thinking how can I limit risk and honour my duty of care to others (and we all have this duty of care)?
The same degree of risk exists in not doing something as there is in doing it, but, for the oddest of reasons, we seem to believe that by assessing risk and appearing to be safety conscious gets us off the hook. That is nonsense unless the individual has somehow mastered randomness and can foretell the future. The reason why we are by and large so useless at prediction is because our brains and our technology cannot do randomness in any realistic shape or form and prediction has to embrace randomness to have any chance of happening. The best we can do is make weather forecasts up to minutes because we can track rain etc. on radar and present it on a mobile phone. Of course by then it'll be raining where you are already ... but it's nice to be in control.
Did you know you were going to write that Tosh, or did it just come out randomly? 064.gif 049:gif
Quote from: toshes mate on August 17, 2022, 08:40:49 AM
As I stated very clearly human beings cannot cope with randomness because we like, to differeing degrees, to be (or seem to be) in control. All the clubs in the world of football have human beings struggling with the concept of randomness and thinking how can I limit risk and honour my duty of care to others (and we all have this duty of care)?
The same degree of risk exists in not doing something as there is in doing it, but, for the oddest of reasons, we seem to believe that by assessing risk and appearing to be safety conscious gets us off the hook. That is nonsense unless the individual has somehow mastered randomness and can foretell the future. The reason why we are by and large so useless at prediction is because our brains and our technology cannot do randomness in any realistic shape or form and prediction has to embrace randomness to have any chance of happening. The best we can do is make weather forecasts up to minutes because we can track rain etc. on radar and present it on a mobile phone. Of course by then it'll be raining where you are already ... but it's nice to be in control.
I've messaged you. Think it would be better to do that than carry this on here and bore everyone else!
Quote from: Cobh Fulham Fan on August 17, 2022, 09:30:10 AM
Did you know you were going to write that Tosh, or did it just come out randomly? 064.gif 049:gif
Well I was going to respond to FFC1987 yesterday but events which I should have predicted (but frankly speaking I am lousy at it) overtook me and I couldn't get near the computer until this am when I had spare time. I checked this topic very briefly but then got a few chores to do. It wasn't until I typed the response above that I knew what I would type. The words and ideas are always there somewhere in the rabble but they get shaped as I type and so I would lie to say I knew what I would type. I had an idea but that is all it was.
As my nearests and dearests tell me frequently I am very predictably unpredictable. Our brains are random in ways that have mystified psychologists for decades but they will soon sell you the secrets of getting grey matter back under control provided you pay up ... our brains are something else entirely and incredibly well engineered for any number of weird and wonderful things like making us fall in love, dream, bring kids up, have silly conversations, pass exams, play musical instruments. write books, paint pictures, make stuff and it is all very much accessing what we somehow randomly store from the past whether or not we intended to do it. Is this process logical and/or predictable? Who knows because I don't?
Toshes Mate, just keep taking the pills.
:wow:
Quote from: filham on August 17, 2022, 05:21:17 PM
Toshes Mate, just keep taking the pills.
:005:
Quote from: filham on August 17, 2022, 05:21:17 PM
Toshes Mate, just keep taking the pills.
With doctors in my family I constantly hear that phrase although I never realised it was aimed at me. Oh, how randomness doth work.
The question now is which pills? The blue ones or the red ones? Hang on there is only one of each ... which shall I choose?
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 17, 2022, 10:06:15 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 17, 2022, 08:40:49 AM
As I stated very clearly human beings cannot cope with randomness because we like, to differeing degrees, to be (or seem to be) in control. All the clubs in the world of football have human beings struggling with the concept of randomness and thinking how can I limit risk and honour my duty of care to others (and we all have this duty of care)?
The same degree of risk exists in not doing something as there is in doing it, but, for the oddest of reasons, we seem to believe that by assessing risk and appearing to be safety conscious gets us off the hook. That is nonsense unless the individual has somehow mastered randomness and can foretell the future. The reason why we are by and large so useless at prediction is because our brains and our technology cannot do randomness in any realistic shape or form and prediction has to embrace randomness to have any chance of happening. The best we can do is make weather forecasts up to minutes because we can track rain etc. on radar and present it on a mobile phone. Of course by then it'll be raining where you are already ... but it's nice to be in control.
I've messaged you. Think it would be better to do that than carry this on here and bore everyone else!
That's a bit strange
Quote from: perry geyton on August 18, 2022, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 17, 2022, 10:06:15 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 17, 2022, 08:40:49 AM
As I stated very clearly human beings cannot cope with randomness because we like, to differeing degrees, to be (or seem to be) in control. All the clubs in the world of football have human beings struggling with the concept of randomness and thinking how can I limit risk and honour my duty of care to others (and we all have this duty of care)?
The same degree of risk exists in not doing something as there is in doing it, but, for the oddest of reasons, we seem to believe that by assessing risk and appearing to be safety conscious gets us off the hook. That is nonsense unless the individual has somehow mastered randomness and can foretell the future. The reason why we are by and large so useless at prediction is because our brains and our technology cannot do randomness in any realistic shape or form and prediction has to embrace randomness to have any chance of happening. The best we can do is make weather forecasts up to minutes because we can track rain etc. on radar and present it on a mobile phone. Of course by then it'll be raining where you are already ... but it's nice to be in control.
I've messaged you. Think it would be better to do that than carry this on here and bore everyone else!
That's a bit strange
Not as strange as half of your posts. Shouldn't be crying somewhere about Ream or TC?
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 18, 2022, 04:39:28 PM
Quote from: perry geyton on August 18, 2022, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 17, 2022, 10:06:15 AM
I've messaged you. Think it would be better to do that than carry this on here and bore everyone else!
That's a bit strange
Not as strange as half of your posts. Shouldn't be crying somewhere about Ream or TC?
On the last point I would count the PM as "strange" since there was a discussion going on on this thread - people can freely comment, ignore it or read it.
My comments about randomness being difficult to comprehend apply to human beings en masse including me. Like everyone else on the planet if you asked me to fake randomness I would fail although I do have ideas about what kind of things may help a programmer wanting to write an algorithm to produce randomness rather better than computers currently do. For starters better key drivers of the random number routines but finding them is ridiculously difficult.
Correlation needs randomnised 'somethings'. To test a hypothesis you need randomness to be present somewhere.
The choices are generally in randomnised trials of the hypothesis if they cannot be present in the data itself - i.e. looking at a bunch of athletes in 'academies' and their injury records may prove something but it would tough to know just what it is without testing people who are not in academies.
Most people are generically likely to 'injure' themselves in their living rooms, sometimes via what they eat and drink apart from trips, falls, etc. That applies to academy attendees too since training routines are set up to avoid injury rather than cause it. But what causes injury and is it chance or design?
You need randomness to find that out for you. You may or may not find the hypothesis falls at the first hurdle because when we have done something successfully 100 times in training but the first time we do it in competition we suffer injury just what causes that injury if it isn't randomness?
Can you say it was bad training protocoil without testing that theory out? I don't think so.