Small margins can make a difference. Penalties are one of the few "static" situations one can prepare for, and I have always thought that most professionals could become good penalty takers, the more they practise. Mitrovic's career record as a penalty taker is poor, 22/31 according to transfermarkt.com, and that excludes his miss in the shoot out v Scotland, although to be fair, I don't know if he has scored any in shoot outs. He should not be our first choice penalty taker.
Danny Murphy (career record 30/31) has written about it being a mixture of technique, routine and mentality, and has emphasised the importance of the second of these three elements:
"The most important thing with penalty taking is having a routine — a go-to penalty. Something you're very comfortable with that you always do, and you can practise it. You can never recreate the mental pressure that comes with taking a penalty — I've taken them at Manchester United, Arsenal... I've taken them all over. You can never recreate that. But if you have a go-to penalty and a go-to routine, it takes away that pressure instantly."
I think Marco Silva needs to choose four of the first team to drill 15 minutes every day on penalty taking. With more dedicated practice and by developing a grooved routine, we would have a cadre of players who would get to the standard where we could expect 80-90% probability of scoring. It is just one thing, but a successful season involves the typical accumulation of small improvements in many areas, and this is one where I think we have some control over how we can increase our chances of having a successful season.
He scored last week. He missed this week.
That's football.
Don't know if these stats are correct, doesn't include todays miss by Mitro.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/aleksandar-mitrovic/elfmetertore/spieler/51152
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on August 13, 2022, 10:40:18 PM
He scored last week. He missed this week.
That's football.
A view over the longer term speaks differently. It is not a knee jerk reaction to one missed penalty. We are not maximising our chances by keeping Mitrovic as our main penalty taker. It is to his credit that he is willing to take the responsibility, but we need either him or someone to do it better.
In my assessment Mitro would not have taken the penalty because the conditions required that he be replaced around the 70 minute mark by Muniz who has always made a good showing for us. Seems that Mitro was truly on fire by the time of the last minute dust up.
I guess penalties got highlighted as we have had two in two games. They are random occurences however which means we could have many more or none at all over what remains of the season. That randomness would surely give a good indication of investment required. My own view is the psychological one and it's interesting how Danny Murphy puts it into everyday language - if you have a routine then penalty taking is not something special that requires you to leave your comfort zone, but getting into and staying in a comfort zone is probably not good advice for players generally since they are busy making things happen. And so the routine is in decision making e.g. this penalty is one where I will do what comes most naturally to me. In other words this is when I do what is tried, tested, and proven to work.
I guess that is something for Mitro to think about if he doesn't already have a tried and tested regime, but I am guessing that he already has one but it is not just as solid as Danny Murphy's was and probably still is. That is also randomness at work too.
Looking at Mitro's two penalties this season. They were very similar both hard and to the goalies right. The Liverpool goalie just touched the ball but the ball was struck hard and closer to the post. The one against Wolves wasn't struck quite as hard and not as close to the post hence the goalie saved it. I guess both goalies had done their homework on how Mitro takes penalties and dived to their right anticipating where Mitro would shoot. Where will Mitro put his next penalty? Hard and to the goalies left or right, high or low. Is there anyone in the team better at taking them?
I thought Mitro's penalty against Liverpool was hard low, in the corner and to the keepers left and was identical to those he had scored pre season. I thought keepers would be aware of his shooting habit and therefore now he needed to go to the keepers right.
I think yesterday he changed his habit and the keeper anticipated this. In changing his habit his technique let him down and he failed to find the corner.
Before Mitro took on the penalty duty we had a bad spell with different spot kick takers, even Cairney failed.
Have to agree with this. Mitro has shown a few times now when the margins are tight, he's not the most reliable penalty taker. So, 22 scored and 10 missed. Not sure what the average conversion rate is for a 'successful' penalty taker but a 31% miss rate seems high to me? Never understood a striker who didn't take penalties, but maybe we have others in the squad who would perform better? Only Silva and his team would know. Maybe Mitro is our best option.
Bearing in mind how many goals he scores, it's odd that I never have that much confidence in Mitro scoring a penalty. People like Murphy, Helguson, Blake and Berbatov you never thought would miss. Not the same with Mitro. Generally the goalkeepers manage to pick the right way to dive with him, and that was especially noticeable in the Championship last season. Perhaps it's a bit knee-jerk to get someone else on penalty duty just on the basis of one missed penalty; but I just feel keepers have sussed him.
Psychology comes into penalty taking.
Sa researched where Mitro placed last weeks penalty, to the far left.
So he gambled that Mitro knows he knows where he placed the penalty last week,
so he figured to the far right this week. Mitro should have called his bluff,
place it to the far left again. Also the height helped Sa.
Quote from: Ludlow Richard on August 14, 2022, 12:52:16 PM
Bearing in mind how many goals he scores, it's odd that I never have that much confidence in Mitro scoring a penalty. People like Murphy, Helguson, Blake and Berbatov you never thought would miss. Not the same with Mitro. Generally the goalkeepers manage to pick the right way to dive with him, and that was especially noticeable in the Championship last season. Perhaps it's a bit knee-jerk to get someone else on penalty duty just on the basis of one missed penalty; but I just feel keepers have sussed him.
Agree totally - growing up watching Fulham left back Jim Langley hardly ever miss (to keeper's right) I always thought it didn't have to be a forward. Blake is a good example. I can't believe that there isn't a penalty taking session every week and that someone in the camp is better. I think Mitro is too easy to read and is not a 'natural' at it like Murphy ...and that's despite putting yesterday's in the opposite corner..too high ..too comfortable
:005:Jeez, never mind Mitro's penalty - have you seen Rice's for Wet Spam just now?
Quote from: rebel on August 14, 2022, 01:01:50 PM
Psychology comes into penalty taking.
Sa researched where Mitro placed last weeks penalty, to the far left.
So he gambled that Mitro knows he knows where he placed the penalty last week,
so he figured to the far right this week. Mitro should have called his bluff,
place it to the far left again. Also the height helped Sa.
It is a gamble had Mitro gone the same way again and the keeper had guessed corectly, like me you would now be saying time Mitro changed direction.
Quote from: filham on August 14, 2022, 04:14:35 PM
Quote from: rebel on August 14, 2022, 01:01:50 PM
Psychology comes into penalty taking.
Sa researched where Mitro placed last weeks penalty, to the far left.
So he gambled that Mitro knows he knows where he placed the penalty last week,
so he figured to the far right this week. Mitro should have called his bluff,
place it to the far left again. Also the height helped Sa.
It is a gamble had Mitro gone the same way again and the keeper had guessed corectly, like me you would now be saying time Mitro changed direction.
I think that's what's happened. Just pointing out the psychology angle, you don't know what I would be saying / not saying.
Nothing else to moan about so let's start on penalties. Really???
Quote from: blingo on August 14, 2022, 04:28:53 PM
Nothing else to moan about so let's start on penalties. Really???
To be fair, we've had a dodgey past with penalties, particularly in the Prem. We just missed one which could be a huge dropped 2 points in the long run and as mentioned, our current taker has a 30% miss rate so its obviously a topic worthy of discussion.
I think it's a bit unrealistic to think teams would go thru the process described by TO to identify proper PK takers. (Even though, to the dopey football fan, like me, it does make perfect sense.) I just don't think that's how football teams operate. As far as FFC is concerned, as long as Mitrovic is on the field, he's taking the PK. As long as Ronaldo is on the field, he's their 'best' player, he's taking the PK. It's true, Mitro is not as consistent as he should be, but we have to live with it. He's gonna miss a few. It's up to Mitrovic to make himself the best player he can be, and if it means extra time after training day is over to practice this skill, he should be doing it.
What is Muniz record with penalties?
Does he take them?
Muniz missed one in penalty shoot out
Something at the back of my mind says Muniz doesnt like them. I think I read that somewhere
Quote from: Dodgin on August 14, 2022, 05:34:18 PM
Muniz missed one in penalty shoot out
Other than that, no record of having taken one in competative football. Hasn't played many games though.
On balance we're probably better off sticking with Mitro.
Only harry Wilson has any credentials as a penalty taker. Scored 12 Failed 3
Neeskens was 8/3 in Belgium
Bobby Reid credited with 5 out of 5 for Cardiff (1) and BC (4)
Andreas is credited with 4 out of 4 but all at junior level.
Quote from: blingo on August 14, 2022, 04:28:53 PM
Nothing else to moan about so let's start on penalties. Really???
What a strange comment. I don't want to "moan" about anything. I am just observing something which I think is a weakness and could be improved. If there is a place for anything on this message board, it must be for subjects like this.
We have had players who rarely missed penalties. From memory (which is getting dodgy) Bullard, Lock ,Murphy, Langley, Berbatov.
All experts from the spot and only one of them a striker/goalscorer.
Quote from: filham on August 14, 2022, 06:17:20 PM
We have had players who rarely missed penalties. From memory (which is getting dodgy) Bullard, Lock ,Murphy, Langley, Berbatov.
All experts from the spot and only one of them a striker/goalscorer.
We're a bit spoiled by that bunch of experts...all with rather different techniques as I remember.
Berbatov was probably my favourite. Never missed one in English football although doesn't seem to have been the regular taker for Spurs or Manchester United.
He was 6/6 for us. 4 the goalie went the wrong way, the other 2 they didn't even bother, which was quite wise!
Quote from: filham on August 14, 2022, 06:17:20 PM
We have had players who rarely missed penalties. From memory (which is getting dodgy) Bullard, Lock ,Murphy, Langley, Berbatov.
All experts from the spot and only one of them a striker/goalscorer.
Mark Blake
Quote from: Plodder on August 14, 2022, 05:54:08 PM
Quote from: blingo on August 14, 2022, 04:28:53 PM
Nothing else to moan about so let's start on penalties. Really???
What a strange comment. I don't want to "moan" about anything. I am just observing something which I think is a weakness and could be improved. If there is a place for anything on this message board, it must be for subjects like this.
Don't worry Plodder, there's a few posters like this that crawl out from under their bridge whenever they whiff debate that might include constructive criticism of a player or manager!
Just thinking of top penalty takers for Fulham in my life time; my rankings :-
1) Helgusson
2) Berbatov
3) Murphy
4) Kevin Lock
5) Saha
One of the best penalty takers was Ray Stewart for West Ham.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Stewart_(Scottish_footballer)
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 07:21:04 PM
Quote from: Plodder on August 14, 2022, 05:54:08 PM
Quote from: blingo on August 14, 2022, 04:28:53 PM
Nothing else to moan about so let's start on penalties. Really???
What a strange comment. I don't want to "moan" about anything. I am just observing something which I think is a weakness and could be improved. If there is a place for anything on this message board, it must be for subjects like this.
Don't worry Plodder, there's a few posters like this that crawl out from under their bridge whenever they whiff debate that might include constructive criticism of a player or manager!
[/quote.
Really 87? You don't know me better than that by now?
Mitro is our penalty taker. MS said yesterday that he will continue to be so, therefore the subject of the Op is pointless
Quote from: Motspur on August 14, 2022, 07:31:51 PM
Just thinking of top penalty takers for Fulham in my life time; my rankings :-
1) Helgusson
2) Berbatov
3) Murphy
4) Kevin Lock
5) Saha
McCormack
Quote from: blingo on August 14, 2022, 04:28:53 PM
Mitro is our penalty taker. MS said yesterday that he will continue to be so, therefore the subject of the Op is pointless
By that line of reasoning, we might as well not discuss anything. There has been much discussion on this board about Tim Ream's place in the side ( I think you have contributed to this discussion), but it is pointless because Marco Silva has selected him so far, continues to do so and either will or will not select him in future, whatever is written here. The subject of transfers is pointless too. Tony Khan will either sign players, or he will not, again irrespective of what is written here. I don't understand the point you are trying to make.
What's all this rubbish, Mitro scored one last week didn't see you lot questioning his ability then, you really need to take a look at yourselves in a mirror 🙄
Quote from: KJS on August 15, 2022, 09:13:48 AM
What's all this rubbish, Mitro scored one last week didn't see you lot questioning his ability then, you really need to take a look at yourselves in a mirror 🙄
Why would we question a penalty taker when he scores? I hardly think suggesting a penalty taker who misses over 30% of kicks he takes is worthy of at least debate. Give ya head a wobble.
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
I think sometimes Mitro outthinks himself, last week bottom left to keeper, thinks i put it their last week this week i better put it somewhere different or do i go the same way and overthinks it and leads to a pants kick like the one on Saturday
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
If he scores this thread isn't created. 0-0 I thought was a fair reflection considering
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
So tell me who in our squad you would replace him with as our penalty taker?
Quote from: Plodder on August 14, 2022, 11:22:59 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on August 13, 2022, 10:40:18 PM
He scored last week. He missed this week.
That's football.
A view over the longer term speaks differently. It is not a knee jerk reaction to one missed penalty. We are not maximising our chances by keeping Mitrovic as our main penalty taker. It is to his credit that he is willing to take the responsibility, but we need either him or someone to do it better.
Completely agree. It was the same with with free kicks a while back. Mitro was often taking command and taking free kicks but he does not have the striking ability to do this and im sorry that applies to his penalties as well. Penalty taking is a real art and combines routine/repetition, great ball striking and sublime confidence. He just does not have the ingredients necessary to make him a dead ball specialist but it does not mean that he is not a great striker.
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
So tell me who in our squad you would replace him with as our penalty taker?
That is not an easy question to answer since we do not have the benefit of seeing them in training. I do however think that the person in question needs to be a great ball striker and I also am not a great fan of left footed pen takers. As a guess I would put forward Pereira but I have no idea if he has the confidence/mental aptitude for the job.
So who would you replace him with?
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
So tell me who in our squad you would replace him with as our penalty taker?
Well firstly, the question of 30%+ miss rate, is this normal? If so, then clearly keep Mitro. If not, I'm sure Silva and his team are training/monitoring it. When back fit, I see Wilson has a 20% miss rate on penalties. Andreas Pereria has taken 4 and scored 4. Bobby Reid, scored 5, never missed. All mute points though as potentially, they all haven't hit a barndoor in training for all I know.
I'm kind of hoping we bring in a technical gifted player for that AM role who would be more proficient perhaps.
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 11:24:53 AM
Quote from: howitis on August 15, 2022, 10:54:24 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 10:53:03 AM
So who would you replace him with?
Pereira
He's unproven.
How do you get to be proven, I guess the answer is by taking them. There maybe someone in training that can do. It. We don't see them in training so we just don't know.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 10:56:35 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
So tell me who in our squad you would replace him with as our penalty taker?
Well firstly, the question of 30%+ miss rate, is this normal? If so, then clearly keep Mitro. If not, I'm sure Silva and his team are training/monitoring it. When back fit, I see Wilson has a 20% miss rate on penalties. Andreas Pereria has taken 4 and scored 4. Bobby Reid, scored 5, never missed. All mute points though as potentially, they all haven't hit a barndoor in training for all I know.
I'm kind of hoping we bring in a technical gifted player for that AM role who would be more proficient perhaps.
I was rarely confident when Mitro was about to take a penalty before last season, but tbf he scored 8 in a row since his miss against Stoke. He has clearly worked on them and I just think he felt tired in the last match because of the heat and the work rate he put in and because of that he lost focus. I back him to score 9/10 times at least nowadays.
P. S. How is 9/31 more than 30%??? Wilson missed his last penalty and before that one he didn't take a penalty for 3 years straight. Last time Andreas took a penalty was 7 years ago in a youth competition. Bobby has 5/5 but took his last one 4 years ago. Are they really better options? I don't think so.
Quote from: bornafulhamfan on August 15, 2022, 12:00:33 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 10:56:35 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
So tell me who in our squad you would replace him with as our penalty taker?
Well firstly, the question of 30%+ miss rate, is this normal? If so, then clearly keep Mitro. If not, I'm sure Silva and his team are training/monitoring it. When back fit, I see Wilson has a 20% miss rate on penalties. Andreas Pereria has taken 4 and scored 4. Bobby Reid, scored 5, never missed. All mute points though as potentially, they all haven't hit a barndoor in training for all I know.
I'm kind of hoping we bring in a technical gifted player for that AM role who would be more proficient perhaps.
I was rarely confident when Mitro was about to take a penalty before last season, but tbf he scored 8 in a row since his miss against Stoke. He has clearly worked on them and I just think he felt tired in the last match because of the heat and the work rate he put in and because of that he lost focus. I back him to score 9/10 times at least nowadays.
P. S. How is 9/31 more than 30%??? Wilson missed his last penalty and before that one he didn't take a penalty for 3 years straight. Last time Andreas took a penalty was 7 years ago in a youth competition. Bobby has 5/5 but took his last one 4 years ago. Are they really better options? I don't think so.
It is true that Mitrovic it is not a great penalty taker (which the stats bear out). But right now - he is probably the best we have.
If he misses another one, then I think we must look at someone else being given ago. Looking at Transfermarkt - Bobby Reid does have a convincing 5-0 record and Kebano a less convincing 8-3 record.
Interestingly, Willian took a fair few penalties for Chelsea and his record is 9-1 (with his only miss being his first one when playing for Shakhar in 2012)
A couple years ago the PL 'miss' rate for penalties since the PL started was 16%. So it is clear that Mitro is a below average performer in this niche area. Not much to be done about it if he is the best we've got.
As always, stats don't always tell the full story. With his 100%, 8 scored 0 missed, record for us we look on Ross McCormack as a top penalty man. In fact his overall career record is no better than Mitro's.
Quote from: bornafulhamfan on August 15, 2022, 12:00:33 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 10:56:35 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
So tell me who in our squad you would replace him with as our penalty taker?
Well firstly, the question of 30%+ miss rate, is this normal? If so, then clearly keep Mitro. If not, I'm sure Silva and his team are training/monitoring it. When back fit, I see Wilson has a 20% miss rate on penalties. Andreas Pereria has taken 4 and scored 4. Bobby Reid, scored 5, never missed. All mute points though as potentially, they all haven't hit a barndoor in training for all I know.
I'm kind of hoping we bring in a technical gifted player for that AM role who would be more proficient perhaps.
I was rarely confident when Mitro was about to take a penalty before last season, but tbf he scored 8 in a row since his miss against Stoke. He has clearly worked on them and I just think he felt tired in the last match because of the heat and the work rate he put in and because of that he lost focus. I back him to score 9/10 times at least nowadays.
P. S. How is 9/31 more than 30%??? Wilson missed his last penalty and before that one he didn't take a penalty for 3 years straight. Last time Andreas took a penalty was 7 years ago in a youth competition. Bobby has 5/5 but took his last one 4 years ago. Are they really better options? I don't think so.
Looks like the stats tracker I used didn't have the Wolves miss in the detail but included in total line so I was using 10 misses on 32 penalties. That said, its still 29% no?
As for pointing out Wilson et all, I wasn't suggesting they replace Mitro as penalty taker, just that his stats are actually reasonably good with a lower miss %.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 01:03:48 PM
Quote from: bornafulhamfan on August 15, 2022, 12:00:33 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 10:56:35 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
So tell me who in our squad you would replace him with as our penalty taker?
Well firstly, the question of 30%+ miss rate, is this normal? If so, then clearly keep Mitro. If not, I'm sure Silva and his team are training/monitoring it. When back fit, I see Wilson has a 20% miss rate on penalties. Andreas Pereria has taken 4 and scored 4. Bobby Reid, scored 5, never missed. All mute points though as potentially, they all haven't hit a barndoor in training for all I know.
I'm kind of hoping we bring in a technical gifted player for that AM role who would be more proficient perhaps.
I was rarely confident when Mitro was about to take a penalty before last season, but tbf he scored 8 in a row since his miss against Stoke. He has clearly worked on them and I just think he felt tired in the last match because of the heat and the work rate he put in and because of that he lost focus. I back him to score 9/10 times at least nowadays.
P. S. How is 9/31 more than 30%??? Wilson missed his last penalty and before that one he didn't take a penalty for 3 years straight. Last time Andreas took a penalty was 7 years ago in a youth competition. Bobby has 5/5 but took his last one 4 years ago. Are they really better options? I don't think so.
Looks like the stats tracker I used didn't have the Wolves miss in the detail but included in total line so I was using 10 misses on 32 penalties. That said, its still 29% no?
As for pointing out Wilson et all, I wasn't suggesting they replace Mitro as penalty taker, just that his stats are actually reasonably good with a lower miss %.
Yes, that's still only 29%, I was just being pedantic.
As for the other point, I just think Mitro is still our best option all things considered. And since Marco took over he has an 8/10 penalty record, and he missed his first penalty vs Stoke and after that I believe he worked on them as they were much better which led to 8 consecutive successful penalties. I really think he improved this aspect since Marco came here.
Quote from: bornafulhamfan on August 15, 2022, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 01:03:48 PM
Quote from: bornafulhamfan on August 15, 2022, 12:00:33 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 10:56:35 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
So tell me who in our squad you would replace him with as our penalty taker?
Well firstly, the question of 30%+ miss rate, is this normal? If so, then clearly keep Mitro. If not, I'm sure Silva and his team are training/monitoring it. When back fit, I see Wilson has a 20% miss rate on penalties. Andreas Pereria has taken 4 and scored 4. Bobby Reid, scored 5, never missed. All mute points though as potentially, they all haven't hit a barndoor in training for all I know.
I'm kind of hoping we bring in a technical gifted player for that AM role who would be more proficient perhaps.
I was rarely confident when Mitro was about to take a penalty before last season, but tbf he scored 8 in a row since his miss against Stoke. He has clearly worked on them and I just think he felt tired in the last match because of the heat and the work rate he put in and because of that he lost focus. I back him to score 9/10 times at least nowadays.
P. S. How is 9/31 more than 30%??? Wilson missed his last penalty and before that one he didn't take a penalty for 3 years straight. Last time Andreas took a penalty was 7 years ago in a youth competition. Bobby has 5/5 but took his last one 4 years ago. Are they really better options? I don't think so.
Looks like the stats tracker I used didn't have the Wolves miss in the detail but included in total line so I was using 10 misses on 32 penalties. That said, its still 29% no?
As for pointing out Wilson et all, I wasn't suggesting they replace Mitro as penalty taker, just that his stats are actually reasonably good with a lower miss %.
Yes, that's still only 29%, I was just being pedantic.
As for the other point, I just think Mitro is still our best option all things considered. And since Marco took over he has an 8/10 penalty record, and he missed his first penalty vs Stoke and after that I believe he worked on them as they were much better which led to 8 consecutive successful penalties. I really think he improved this aspect since Marco came here.
All good points to be fair. The biggest thing again is, how much we don't see at training. I'd still be interested from the stats buffs whether roughly 30% miss rates are the norm or over/under averages across penalty takers though.
Quote from: Nero on August 15, 2022, 09:58:16 AM
I think sometimes Mitro outthinks himself, last week bottom left to keeper, thinks i put it their last week this week i better put it somewhere different or do i go the same way and overthinks it and leads to a pants kick like the one on Saturday
I agree.
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
We aren't arguing, we are 'discussing'. It was a 'hot', 'bothersome day', it's really a different day because of the heat, to last week.
Someone who had just arrived might of made a better job of it. Mitro running around for 80 minutes in that heat, my head would be 'buzzing'.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 02:05:44 PM
Quote from: bornafulhamfan on August 15, 2022, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 01:03:48 PM
Quote from: bornafulhamfan on August 15, 2022, 12:00:33 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 10:56:35 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
That's a rather obtuse argument. We're talking about penalties in a better division. Margins matter in this league. No ones saying exile him or really, being overly critical. The main thing that's been brought up, is whether a 30% ish miss rate for a penalty taker is good or bad. I think its probably on the high side and we can ill afford to miss many. Historically, he's missed a few now so begs the question, is he our best penalty taker. Not sure why bringing up goals from last season is indicative of answering this.
So tell me who in our squad you would replace him with as our penalty taker?
Well firstly, the question of 30%+ miss rate, is this normal? If so, then clearly keep Mitro. If not, I'm sure Silva and his team are training/monitoring it. When back fit, I see Wilson has a 20% miss rate on penalties. Andreas Pereria has taken 4 and scored 4. Bobby Reid, scored 5, never missed. All mute points though as potentially, they all haven't hit a barndoor in training for all I know.
I'm kind of hoping we bring in a technical gifted player for that AM role who would be more proficient perhaps.
I was rarely confident when Mitro was about to take a penalty before last season, but tbf he scored 8 in a row since his miss against Stoke. He has clearly worked on them and I just think he felt tired in the last match because of the heat and the work rate he put in and because of that he lost focus. I back him to score 9/10 times at least nowadays.
P. S. How is 9/31 more than 30%??? Wilson missed his last penalty and before that one he didn't take a penalty for 3 years straight. Last time Andreas took a penalty was 7 years ago in a youth competition. Bobby has 5/5 but took his last one 4 years ago. Are they really better options? I don't think so.
Looks like the stats tracker I used didn't have the Wolves miss in the detail but included in total line so I was using 10 misses on 32 penalties. That said, its still 29% no?
As for pointing out Wilson et all, I wasn't suggesting they replace Mitro as penalty taker, just that his stats are actually reasonably good with a lower miss %.
Yes, that's still only 29%, I was just being pedantic.
As for the other point, I just think Mitro is still our best option all things considered. And since Marco took over he has an 8/10 penalty record, and he missed his first penalty vs Stoke and after that I believe he worked on them as they were much better which led to 8 consecutive successful penalties. I really think he improved this aspect since Marco came here.
All good points to be fair. The biggest thing again is, how much we don't see at training. I'd still be interested from the stats buffs whether roughly 30% miss rates are the norm or over/under averages across penalty takers though.
I don't know what is the average percentage of missed penalties across penalty takers either. Here are penalty kick takers for each PL clubs and their penalty miss stats:
Arsenal:
Saka 1/5, 20% (if Jesus takes over he has a terrible record 7/12, 58%)
Aston Villa:
Ings 3/13, 23%
Bournemouth:
Solanke 1/11, 9%(but that's hardly surprising he's a better striker according to SP :005:)
Brentford:
Toney 1/24, 4%(incredible record tbf)
Brighton:
Mac Allister 1/4, 25%
Chelsea:
Jorginho 7/46, 15%
Crystal Palace:
Zaha 2/9, 22%Milivojević who takes them when he's on the pich has 4/26,15%)
Everton:
Calver-Lewin 1/6, 16%
Leeds:
Bamford 2/10, 20%
Leicester:
Vardy 6/34, 18%
Liverpool:
Salah 5/33, 15%
Manchester City:
Haaland 2/29 7% (Aguero had a worse record 14/62, 23%)
Manchester United:
Ronaldo 29/173, 17% or Fernades 5/47, 11%
Newcastle:
Wilson 3/18, 17%
Forest:
Brennan Johnson 2/11, 18% or Awoniyi 0/3(very small sample though)
Southampton:
Ward-Prowse 4/19, 21%
Tottenham:
Kane 8/61, 13%
West Ham:
Lanzini 1/7, 14%
Wolves:
Jimenez 2/33, 6%( considering the amount of penalties he took+ percentage probably the best pk taker)
So all in all, he does have the worst penalty record out of all designated pk takers in the PL. However there are a few things that need to be considered:
1) quite a lot of them have more than or close to 20% miss rate
2) some of them took a small amount of penalties so the sample is very small
3) as I said already, it seems like Mitro impoved his tehnique last season, scoring 8 penalties in a row before missing the one against Wolves(8 in 9 is an excellent record)
Overall I think it is fair to at least give Mitro the benefit of the doubt. If he continues missing every 3rd or 4th penalty, then fair enough, we probably need to find aa better pk taker. But if he continues with his recent 8/9 form than there's no reason to change that.
Quote from: rebel on August 15, 2022, 02:24:22 PM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
But he made up for it last season by scoring 43 goals. There is no reasoning behind the arguments.
We aren't arguing, we are 'discussing'. It was a 'hot', 'bothersome day', it's really a different day because of the heat, to last week.
Someone who had just arrived might of made a better job of it. Mitro running around for 80 minutes in that heat, my head would be 'buzzing'.
I agree with this. Mitro was tired and he should have given it to someone else(but who knows maybe no one wanted to take it). I however, believe that Mitro should remain our pk taker unless in certain situations like the previous game.