how do you know if a player really "loves the club"? Joao could not have been more convincing that he did, especially pounding the crest post-goal emphatically. yet, he seemed so happy to leave for Bayern, and he probably will in January. love the guy, don't get me wrong, but how do you know who truly loves back, or not?
follow-up question, does it matter?
thanks
Quote from: JOND999 on September 21, 2023, 02:54:35 PMhow do you know if a player really "loves the club"? Joao could not have been more convincing that he did, especially pounding the crest post-goal emphatically. yet, he seemed so happy to leave for Bayern, and he probably will in January. love the guy, don't get me wrong, but how do you know who truly loves back, or not?
follow-up question, does it matter?
thanks
I'm prepared to accept that "in the moment" the likes of Joao feel exactly that. It doesn't make it insincere that later a huge club like Bayern appear and changes his perspective. Think we are at times naive wishing to believe in the forever..that's not the real world . Remember Johnny Haynes stayed once he became the first £100 per week player.
Probably doesn't matter much. It's a business. Professional athletes have a limited shelf life, and they must make hay while the gettin' is good. If you're looking for loyalty in a player, then you have to give it some "time". Will only satisfy you if a particular player has a long run in a team. I look at Harrison Reed in this instance, been with the club for a good while and has recently signed an extension. FFC has a handful of players that have been here for awhile, but that really doesn't stop any player from floating away. Bottom line, it's a business, and this is their job.
You've gotta stop seeing footballers as human beings, nowadays their basically soulless robots that are only driven by money
Do you think Joao never loved Sporting because he has come to Fulham? He even went to the Europa League game at the Emirates last year to cheer them on. It's entirely possible for Joao to love Fulham and still want to try and compete at the highest level which quite frankly he has zero chance of doing at Fulham.
Don't make everything so black and white.
They don't love the club they love the moment - For the player it's a job - and for most people when an offer of a better job (facilities, surroundings or pay) comes along they they move on.
Sometimes loyalty gets confused with comfort or fear of change.
I'm prepared to accept that some players, probably a minority, do sincerely love our club and feel a significant degree of loyalty to it. However when a much bigger club such as Bayern comes after a player it's hardly contradictory if they want to go there.
I accept that a lot of players simply want to maximise the wealth they derive from the sport at any cost. However I think it's excessively cynical to argue that this applies 100% to all players.
Doesn't matter at all, they are professionals.
Aslong as they put in a shift for the club they play for then thats all i care about really.
I don't think the players are insincere when they touch the badge and run to fans after scoring - in that moment they do love the club and its fans.
It's hard for us to imagine how it must feel to score a goal in front of hundreds of fans in a top flight game.
But, as said, it's their job at the same time, where a lot of money is earned, and the prospect of more always on the horizon for a top player, coupled with the fear that a serious injury, or even chronic loss of form, could end your career, which only lasts about 10 years anyway.
Yes, as said, 'make hay while the sun shines' is the mantra, especially today.
The players and fans have different relationships to the club. Think of oneself and one's own job.
You might think it's a good organisation, has treated you reasonably well, have good friends there, and always put in a good shift, but if a better job came along, not just better pay, but maybe more status or more interesting and fulfilling for you, you'd probably walk away like a shot, and the people left behind, the friends, maybe a manager who'd believed in you, helped you get on, though that would also likely be in his and the firm's interests, since he thought you would do a good job, might say -
'all we did for him, and he just walked away as soon as he had a better offer.'
but that manager would likely do the same thing if given the chance.
Players just don't have the same emotional bond to a club as we fans do, and most/all players will expect to play for several clubs during their careers - it's how they earn their living and put food on the table, at the end of the day -
a job, not an emotionally motivated passion you've had since childhood, and isn't even rational - ie. traditionally you're fan of a club for life, however it's fortunes may go from highs to lows, or however disillusioned you may become at how your club is run, and how it treats you as fans.
They're part of a team, probably good friends with a few of them. The squad, Club, us.
I think kissing the badge etc is more or less shorthand for that's one for the team.
Would anybody turn down the chance to work with better professionals, in a better environment, where you can measure yourself against the best?
As already said above, as a fan, your loyalty is simply to the shirt (club). The shirt, and that only. Players come and go, but it's the shirt to which you invest your emotions. As long as any player works hard and puts in a shift for your club, that's really all that matters.
I think perspective is important.
I'm an everyday Joe, work for a decent company in IT. I enjoy my job, the company i work for recognise me with the odd pay rise and I get posts from my manager thanking me for the work I do. Outside of work I tell people its a good place to be.
Saying that, if a high profile company like Google or Meta came along, I'd probably go for it. I'd get more money, but I'd also get the opportunity to work on more cutting edge software and with a higher skilled team, I'd probably feel like a bit of an impostor, but I'd work hard to try and deliver for the company as it would be a great opportunity.
I don't think any of my colleagues or clients from my old role would be upset by that as long as I work my notice and was fair to them, even though it would make their jobs a bit harder.
My job and career might be nothing like Joao's, but there are still a few comparisons
Quote from: perry geyton on September 21, 2023, 03:04:24 PMYou've gotta stop seeing footballers as human beings, nowadays their basically soulless robots that are only driven by money
I take you work/worked for nothing and never interested in trying to better yourself?
This is their career, not a hobby.
the relationship between footballers and fans, is much the same as between politicians/governments and civil servants. Politicians/ governments come and go as the ballot box decides, while the civil service are the permanent government. always there through thick and thin.
In all honesty I wouldn't find it difficult to love any football club that was paying me upwards of £20,000 per week.
Quote from: alfie on September 21, 2023, 04:31:22 PMQuote from: perry geyton on September 21, 2023, 03:04:24 PMYou've gotta stop seeing footballers as human beings, nowadays their basically soulless robots that are only driven by money
I take you work/worked for nothing and never interested in trying to better yourself?
This is their career, not a hobby.
Quite the opposite, my hobby became my career because I do it for the right reasons
Not saying all footballers are, infact Jao is a footballer I look up too, I can tell his hearts in the right place and he enjoys what he does, Certainly can't knock him for wanting to reach the highest level, doesn't come across as the type of dick who would own 15 cars, he's also not covered in tattoos like all these over posers
Quote from: perry geyton on September 21, 2023, 07:42:12 PMQuote from: alfie on September 21, 2023, 04:31:22 PMQuote from: perry geyton on September 21, 2023, 03:04:24 PMYou've gotta stop seeing footballers as human beings, nowadays their basically soulless robots that are only driven by money
I take you work/worked for nothing and never interested in trying to better yourself?
This is their career, not a hobby.
Quite the opposite, my hobby became my career because I do it for the right reasons
Not saying all footballers are, infact Jao is a footballer I look up too, I can tell his hearts in the right place and he enjoys what he does, Certainly can't knock him for wanting to reach the highest level, doesn't come across as the type of dick who would own 15 cars, he's also not covered in tattoos like all these over posers
So just to clarify all footballers are soulless robots except the ones you like.
Over the years there have been so many players who have moved on to bigger clubs to try and fill that ambition and to try and improve. They can love our club and be wrapped up in the moment but deep down we all know a bigger club comes sniffing around and they will just move on.
What slightly baffled me is the player who goes out of his way to say how happy he is and how his family love it. Is very successful. But then sees money offered and can't wait to stab the club in the back and run away.
Then it dawned on me. Players are scared. Injury threatens how good and how consistent you are. You feel deep down you are not going to manage to play at the same level.So fear and money takes over.
I think players are loyal in that moment. But they are not fans. Fans stay for the long term. Even when the club prices them out. Even when they have seen the club in all four divisions. Players are momentary and we wish them luck. But like God and Democracy. Don't trust a thing they say in the long term.
Quote from: alfie on September 21, 2023, 08:15:36 PMQuote from: perry geyton on September 21, 2023, 07:42:12 PMQuote from: alfie on September 21, 2023, 04:31:22 PMQuote from: perry geyton on September 21, 2023, 03:04:24 PMYou've gotta stop seeing footballers as human beings, nowadays their basically soulless robots that are only driven by money
I take you work/worked for nothing and never interested in trying to better yourself?
This is their career, not a hobby.
Quite the opposite, my hobby became my career because I do it for the right reasons
Not saying all footballers are, infact Jao is a footballer I look up too, I can tell his hearts in the right place and he enjoys what he does, Certainly can't knock him for wanting to reach the highest level, doesn't come across as the type of dick who would own 15 cars, he's also not covered in tattoos like all these over posers
So just to clarify all footballers are soulless robots except the ones you like.
Yeah confusing init
No,players love the club,they just pass through as long as they give there all fine.
Fans love the club that's the only love.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 21, 2023, 08:46:40 PMOver the years there have been so many players who have moved on to bigger clubs to try and fill that ambition and to try and improve. They can love our club and be wrapped up in the moment but deep down we all know a bigger club comes sniffing around and they will just move on.
What slightly baffled me is the player who goes out of his way to say how happy he is and how his family love it. Is very successful. But then sees money offered and can't wait to stab the club in the back and run away.
Then it dawned on me. Players are scared. Injury threatens how good and how consistent you are. You feel deep down you are not going to manage to play at the same level.So fear and money takes over.
I think players are loyal in that moment. But they are not fans. Fans stay for the long term. Even when the club prices them out. Even when they have seen the club in all four divisions. Players are momentary and we wish them luck. But like God and Democracy. Don't trust a thing they say in the long term.
I tell my partner how wonderful she is and how much I love her all the time.
But
If Charlize Theron walked into the pub and started making eyes at me well ......