He's been pretty poor in all three games so far. A shadow of himself from last season. I'm sure he'll come back to his previous level eventualy, but I'd maybe give Cuenca a shot in the next game.
I think he needs a leader next to him. He was much better when Ream was next to him, and I assume that's why we bought Anderson.
We need to find a more solid partnership I agree.
Maybe nervous with Cuenca breathing down his neck and eating Cornettos.
Quote from: Caedal on August 31, 2024, 05:07:44 PMI think he needs a leader next to him. He was much better when Ream was next to him, and I assume that's why we bought Anderson.
We need to find a more solid partnership I agree.
I wouldn't agree with this at all. Bassey's worst games in Fulham's shirt were when he was partnered with Ream.
Andersen needs to be in there.
Quote from: SerbianLad on August 31, 2024, 05:17:23 PMQuote from: Caedal on August 31, 2024, 05:07:44 PMI think he needs a leader next to him. He was much better when Ream was next to him, and I assume that's why we bought Anderson.
We need to find a more solid partnership I agree.
I wouldn't agree with this at all. Bassey's worst games in Fulham's shirt were when he was partnered with Ream.
that was because he was settling in and playing RCB and the first game was away at spuds.
Quote from: hovewhite on August 31, 2024, 07:06:12 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on August 31, 2024, 05:17:23 PMQuote from: Caedal on August 31, 2024, 05:07:44 PMI think he needs a leader next to him. He was much better when Ream was next to him, and I assume that's why we bought Anderson.
We need to find a more solid partnership I agree.
I wouldn't agree with this at all. Bassey's worst games in Fulham's shirt were when he was partnered with Ream.
that was because he was settling in and playing RCB and the first game was away at spuds.
That's all true, but I'd say that the statement "he was much better when Ream was next to him" isn't factually true.
I reckon the defence will improve with Andersen and Castagne. That's not a criticism of either Diop or Tete either.
I personally don't think Andersen and Castagne for Diop and Tete will make us better defensively at all, in fact I'd argue it could make us weaker. On top of that Tete and Diop have been at least 5x better defensively than Bassey and Robinson in these three games. If anyone deserves dropping it's one of them.
Quote from: Whitestone on August 31, 2024, 07:29:24 PMI reckon the defence will improve with Andersen and Castagne. That's not a criticism of either Diop or Tete either.
Beautiful ! !
Must admit both centre backs give me the jitters when they pass it around at the back, from what I've seen, Anderson and Cuenca look a bit more comfortable with the ball at their feet
Quote from: SerbianLad on August 31, 2024, 07:40:37 PMI personally don't think Andersen and Castagne for Diop and Tete will make us better defensively at all, in fact I'd argue it could make us weaker. On top of that Tete and Diop have been at least 5x better defensively than Bassey and Robinson in these three games. If anyone deserves dropping it's one of them.
I don't rate Diop highly as a starting CB, but he has not been a major issue for the 3 games. His passing is mediocre at best, so I am sure Andersen will be starting after the break for that reason alone.
The issue is how sloppy and inconsistent Bassey is right now. I still think he will be starting next to Andersen next match. The hope is he is more stable in that partnership, similar to how he looked with Tosin last season. I would not give him a long leash though as Cuenca looks capable and Diop has been solid enough.
Diop e or Bassey aren't good at passing out from the back,Bassey for Nigeria plays left back has pace and a left peg if he can cross the ball if Robinson gets sold next season he would be obvious choice as left back as I find his aggression as centre back could cost us and remember ream was the man who could pass out from the back, but I find it strange we are trying to form a system so late in start of the season with two many players at once defenders,d/midfielders,central midfielders,wingers and forwards or lack off too many at once asking for trouble and now with the break players will be missing seams a lack of discipline seems to be creeping in players seem not intense enough.
For me he needs a passer next to him. Looked loads better with Tosin next to him last season as just gave it Tosin and Tosin played forward. Gives it Diop and most of the time Diop gives it straight back. Also gets it off Leno a lot. He's not a passer. Good carrier yes but passer no. United in spells also pressed high really well as did Ipswich today and because neither Diop or Bassey are great on the ball they just kept passing it straight to the opposition.
When Andersen comes in everything will go through him. Leno will give it short to him and Bassey sideways to him and he'll look forward most of the time. Berge should help as well. That turn he did today and sweeping ball with the outside of his boot shows what he can do. Or he carries well up the pitch. Both things mean that Bassey can focus and n what he is good at...big 1 on 1 defending out muscling folk. He is also the perfect foil for Andersen as he has pace to cover him (Cuenca does not). I really think Bassey and Andersen will be a superb pair and we will see the best of Bassey again when he comes into the team. Hopefully we will finally get a bit better against a high press as we are totally frigging useless at it 90% of the time. The goal was one of the few times we actually played nicely around it today.
Quote from: SerbianLad on August 31, 2024, 07:11:04 PMQuote from: hovewhite on August 31, 2024, 07:06:12 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on August 31, 2024, 05:17:23 PMQuote from: Caedal on August 31, 2024, 05:07:44 PMI think he needs a leader next to him. He was much better when Ream was next to him, and I assume that's why we bought Anderson.
We need to find a more solid partnership I agree.
I wouldn't agree with this at all. Bassey's worst games in Fulham's shirt were when he was partnered with Ream.
that was because he was settling in and playing RCB and the first game was away at spuds.
That's all true, but I'd say that the statement "he was much better when Ream was next to him" isn't factually true.
Well I'd say it is. One can always find a single game to impact any player's stats but in general I think it's a fair point.
Quote from: Twig on August 31, 2024, 11:34:43 PMWell I'd say it is. One can always find a single game to impact any player's stats but in general I think it's a fair point.
It's not one game. Everytime him and Ream played together he's been poor. "He was much better with Ream next to him" is untrue. He was worse than he's been this season. He was our best cb last season when paired with Tosin/Diop, but very poor when paired with Ream. Brighton 1-1 game(Palhinha equaliser) another example. Man U loss, Aston Villa 3-1 loss both poor performances from Bassey with Ream next to him. 3-2 win against Wolves was also poor, as was the 4-3 loss to Liverpool. They litteraly had no good games together, so really can't see how he's missing Ream next to him.
Can anyone say specifically what to look for in reviewing the "he is worse than last season"? Do you mean in the build-up, in defense, both? Every single post is so generic and everyone is just agreeing without anyone providing any type of context or examples.
Last season when Tosin wouldn't sign a contract I was one of a number of people that said we should be playing Diop so that he would get playing time to form a partnership with Bassey to see if they complimented each other, I believe they still haven't played a dozen competitive games together. We now have two new CB we need to integrate and it will take time. Just throwing together the two precieved best ones doesn't mean they will form the best partnership and I believe its the most important partnership in the team.Hangerland and Hughes were not the best individually but together they were one of the best. We might find that Bassey is more comfortable with Andersen but at the moment Diop is playing well, it's a delema for Marco one which I think could have been made easier if he had given them more playing time together last season.
Quote from: Thailand Mick on September 01, 2024, 05:44:10 AMLast season when Tosin wouldn't sign a contract I was one of a number of people that said we should be playing Diop so that he would get playing time to form a partnership with Bassey to see if they complimented each other, I believe they still haven't played a dozen competitive games together. We now have two new CB we need to integrate and it will take time. Just throwing together the two precieved best ones doesn't mean they will form the best partnership and I believe its the most important partnership in the team.Hangerland and Hughes were not the best individually but together they were one of the best. We might find that Bassey is more comfortable with Andersen but at the moment Diop is playing well, it's a delema for Marco one which I think could have been made easier if he had given them more playing time together last season.
Spot on, the problem is simple that Diop and Bassey have only played together in the premier league together four times.
The first time together Bassey got a red card, and the second time was at the end of the season on the 27th April 2024.
The partnership is still new with weaknesses still being ironed out. And, worse over the summer, other clubs have studied the partnership and if there is a weakness have likely found it.
Lesson, we need to build the next seasons "early season squad" in the winter transfer window and get them to play together at the end of the season for more than a few games.
Quote from: Matt10 on September 01, 2024, 02:40:53 AMCan anyone say specifically what to look for in reviewing the "he is worse than last season"? Do you mean in the build-up, in defense, both? Every single post is so generic and everyone is just agreeing without anyone providing any type of context or examples.
Bassey was exceptionally good last season, so on the basis of that and my trip to the Cottage for the Leicester game, I'm prepared to accept the hypothesis that he hasn't been as good this season.
But for hard empirical evidence, I turn to the number of shots conceded, which turns out to be 14 at Old Trafford, 10 against Leicester and 11 at Portman Road. These are solid numbers and consistent with the fact that no team has scored two goals against us. Hairy defensive moments, for sure, but that's true for most of the chances we make at the other end and is just how football works.
As a benchmark, Man United in their clueless phase of last season we're usually conceding over 20 shots per game.
Yesterday's goal conceded flew in from 25 yards. That's where you want shots taken from. The goal we conceded against Leicester troubled me more, coming from a corner, but since then we have signed two 6'4" players.
My takeaway is that the defence is stronger than last year. Tete is restored to full effectiveness and every CF in the league fancied a battle with Tim Ream.
Just think we are playing with the handbrake on, safety first. Four points from three games is solid and the early "crisis club" mantle has been avoided. We will surely get more fluid.
Figuring out our best CB pairing won't be easy. Bassey/Ream was horrible and to my eyes that was about Bassey wanting a high line and Ream needing deeper. Bassey/Andersen might bring a similar dynamic and it could be that Bassey/Diop is as good as we can get. I'm sure it will all get tried out and should be interesting to see. You never quite know in football. But I've seen enough to have plenty of faith in Calvin Bassey.
Quote from: Matt10 on September 01, 2024, 02:40:53 AMCan anyone say specifically what to look for in reviewing the "he is worse than last season"? Do you mean in the build-up, in defense, both? Every single post is so generic and everyone is just agreeing without anyone providing any type of context or examples.
He's a bit erratic at the moment. I do think he's been okay overall, but he's been our worst defender by a country mile. He's overcommitting and then he either makes a foul or the opponent goes through. He's not winning as many duels as he used to(stats back this up too, 1.91 to 0.67 tackles per game or sometthing like that, as an example of this) and he makes passing mistakes in very dangerous areas. His mistakes against Manchester United and against Leicester should have been punished with a goal and he was lucky that both teams managed to mess it up.
I still think he'll return to his best this season and be one of our key players, but I wonder if it might be time to give someone else a chance and let Bassey back in the 11 later.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 01, 2024, 09:32:46 AMQuote from: Matt10 on September 01, 2024, 02:40:53 AMCan anyone say specifically what to look for in reviewing the "he is worse than last season"? Do you mean in the build-up, in defense, both? Every single post is so generic and everyone is just agreeing without anyone providing any type of context or examples.
He's a bit erratic at the moment. I do think he's been okay overall, but he's been our worst defender by a country mile. He's overcommitting and then he either makes a foul or the opponent goes through. He's not winning as many duels as he used to(stats back this up too, 1.91 to 0.67 tackles per game or sometthing like that, as an example of this) and he makes passing mistakes in very dangerous areas. His mistakes against Manchester United and against Leicester should have been punished with a goal and he was lucky that both teams managed to mess it up.
I still think he'll return to his best this season and be one of our key players, but I wonder if it might be time to give someone else a chance and let Bassey back in the 11 later.
quite possibly not motivated now the legend Ream has left.i would ship Diop to the left and play Anderson on the Right side as Diop has been brilliant so far.
I think he switches off sometimes and can get out of position. Ipswich got behind us to easily especially 2nd Half.
Yeah, Bassey seems a bit off so far. I'm a little more concerned about Iwobi being off so far this season. One of my favorite players from last season, but so far this season has not impressed. Hope both these players come good again, and soon.....
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 01, 2024, 09:32:46 AMQuote from: Matt10 on September 01, 2024, 02:40:53 AMCan anyone say specifically what to look for in reviewing the "he is worse than last season"? Do you mean in the build-up, in defense, both? Every single post is so generic and everyone is just agreeing without anyone providing any type of context or examples.
He's a bit erratic at the moment. I do think he's been okay overall, but he's been our worst defender by a country mile. He's overcommitting and then he either makes a foul or the opponent goes through. He's not winning as many duels as he used to(stats back this up too, 1.91 to 0.67 tackles per game or sometthing like that, as an example of this) and he makes passing mistakes in very dangerous areas. His mistakes against Manchester United and against Leicester should have been punished with a goal and he was lucky that both teams managed to mess it up.
I still think he'll return to his best this season and be one of our key players, but I wonder if it might be time to give someone else a chance and let Bassey back in the 11 later.
I haven't rewatched those two matches, but genuinely what was wrong with Ipswich? He won his duels, he bullied a couple different players. Won headers. Distribution was good enough. Even on the goal we scored his curling low pass to Iwobi was brilliant, then the switch to Tete was smart.
I just got done rewatching the Ipswich match to review Pereira's play and again, I'm just not seeing these things with Bassey that are mentioned. I know some don't have the ability/time to rewatch the match - but I'd like to find these moments that makes supporters feel the way they do.
Again,I apologize if I seem confrontational. I'm just seeing a recurring theme both here (not this specific thread) and Twitter of an echo chamber and ganging up on players with no actual evidence or examples that would make someone think a certain way about a player. I feel general statements are just being suggested - and the power of suggestion is exactly that, powerful.
Good post( as are your assessments on the other Ipswich match threads) .We have long needed a matchday thread entitled" Scapegoat Corner " or "precipice" might be more apt as we always want to throw someone over the edge when we lose.
I'm guilty of it myself - it's the passion and hope that kills and frustrates you . Rational behaviour goes out the window and that is why I try not to post on what I see as poor performances from players
Your analytical approach is therefore a breath of fresh air - thank you
Quote from: Matt10 on September 02, 2024, 05:48:24 AMI haven't rewatched those two matches, but genuinely what was wrong with Ipswich? He won his duels, he bullied a couple different players. Won headers. Distribution was good enough. Even on the goal we scored his curling low pass to Iwobi was brilliant, then the switch to Tete was smart.
I just got done rewatching the Ipswich match to review Pereira's play and again, I'm just not seeing these things with Bassey that are mentioned. I know some don't have the ability/time to rewatch the match - but I'd like to find these moments that makes supporters feel the way they do.
Again,I apologize if I seem confrontational. I'm just seeing a recurring theme both here (not this specific thread) and Twitter of an echo chamber and ganging up on players with no actual evidence or examples that would make someone think a certain way about a player. I feel general statements are just being suggested - and the power of suggestion is exactly that, powerful.
Don't know exactly when it happened, but I remember commenting on the match thread how he made a similar mistake to the Manxhester United one and how he got lucky again. Apart from that mistake he was okay, and he was better at Ipswich than against Manchester United, but he just didn't seem as comanding as he was last season or as comanding as Diop has been this season. Something just seems off. Or at least that's my opinion, I understand we may view things differently.
Why are footballers considered different from the rest of us, we all make mistakes
Quote from: Thailand Mick on September 01, 2024, 05:44:10 AMLast season when Tosin wouldn't sign a contract I was one of a number of people that said we should be playing Diop so that he would get playing time to form a partnership with Bassey to see if they complimented each other, I believe they still haven't played a dozen competitive games together. We now have two new CB we need to integrate and it will take time. Just throwing together the two precieved best ones doesn't mean they will form the best partnership and I believe its the most important partnership in the team.Hangerland and Hughes were not the best individually but together they were one of the best. We might find that Bassey is more comfortable with Andersen but at the moment Diop is playing well, it's a delema for Marco one which I think could have been made easier if he had given them more playing time together last season.
Nonsense. I think anyone who had watched Diop and Bassey play had a pretty good idea what that pairing would look like even before they played a match together. Solid enough defensively but not offering much in terms of buildup play (which is obviously quite important to how Marco wants to play). And now that they've played a handful of matches together that is exactly what we've seen. It is what it is and their partnership wouldn't look much different even if they'd played a dozen more matches together last season. This is why Marco had ball playing CB's high on his shopping list this summer. As for a new CB pairing and how long it will take to gel, sure it could take time but Fulham fans have seen CB pairings that looked good pretty much from day 1 (Brede/Hughes and Tosin/Bassey, for example).
Quote from: Chi_FFC on September 02, 2024, 02:56:50 PMQuote from: Thailand Mick on September 01, 2024, 05:44:10 AMLast season when Tosin wouldn't sign a contract I was one of a number of people that said we should be playing Diop so that he would get playing time to form a partnership with Bassey to see if they complimented each other, I believe they still haven't played a dozen competitive games together. We now have two new CB we need to integrate and it will take time. Just throwing together the two precieved best ones doesn't mean they will form the best partnership and I believe its the most important partnership in the team.Hangerland and Hughes were not the best individually but together they were one of the best. We might find that Bassey is more comfortable with Andersen but at the moment Diop is playing well, it's a delema for Marco one which I think could have been made easier if he had given them more playing time together last season.
Nonsense. I think anyone who had watched Diop and Bassey play had a pretty good idea what that pairing would look like even before they played a match together. Solid enough defensively but not offering much in terms of buildup play (which is obviously quite important to how Marco wants to play). And now that they've played a handful of matches together that is exactly what we've seen. It is what it is and their partnership wouldn't look much different even if they'd played a dozen more matches together last season. This is why Marco had ball playing CB's high on his shopping list this summer. As for a new CB pairing and how long it will take to gel, sure it could take time but Fulham fans have seen CB pairings that looked good pretty much from day 1 (Brede/Hughes and Tosin/Bassey, for example).
so if Marco already knew what sort of partnership they would form and it would cause us problems then why is he playing them together when we had Cuenca signed early in pre season and who Marco has wax lyrical about how good he is and will surprise alot of people.
Quote from: Thailand Mick on September 02, 2024, 03:59:34 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on September 02, 2024, 02:56:50 PMQuote from: Thailand Mick on September 01, 2024, 05:44:10 AMLast season when Tosin wouldn't sign a contract I was one of a number of people that said we should be playing Diop so that he would get playing time to form a partnership with Bassey to see if they complimented each other, I believe they still haven't played a dozen competitive games together. We now have two new CB we need to integrate and it will take time. Just throwing together the two precieved best ones doesn't mean they will form the best partnership and I believe its the most important partnership in the team.Hangerland and Hughes were not the best individually but together they were one of the best. We might find that Bassey is more comfortable with Andersen but at the moment Diop is playing well, it's a delema for Marco one which I think could have been made easier if he had given them more playing time together last season.
Nonsense. I think anyone who had watched Diop and Bassey play had a pretty good idea what that pairing would look like even before they played a match together. Solid enough defensively but not offering much in terms of buildup play (which is obviously quite important to how Marco wants to play). And now that they've played a handful of matches together that is exactly what we've seen. It is what it is and their partnership wouldn't look much different even if they'd played a dozen more matches together last season. This is why Marco had ball playing CB's high on his shopping list this summer. As for a new CB pairing and how long it will take to gel, sure it could take time but Fulham fans have seen CB pairings that looked good pretty much from day 1 (Brede/Hughes and Tosin/Bassey, for example).
so if Marco already knew what sort of partnership they would form and it would cause us problems then why is he playing them together when we had Cuenca signed early in pre season and who Marco has wax lyrical about how good he is and will surprise alot of people.
Well, in the first place Cuenca didn't sign early in the pre season. He signed less than two weeks before our first PL match. Second, I doubt many Fulham fans are the least bit surprised that Marco has yet to give a PL start to a 24 year old CB who 1) again signed less than two weeks before the start of the season and 2) has
zero experience in the English game.