Just seen a post in 'silly' that questioned Dempsey's legacy.
I didn't want to add to the growing list of unrelated transfer post so here's a thread instead.
I personally am suprised that even to this day, Dempsey is doubted.
It was kind of one of the things I loved about dempsey, he was masterclass but over and over again, we would have a new manager come in who didnt favour him.
And each time, Dempsey stuck with us and regained his spot, earning the trust of the manager.
I remember even Roy having a little unconvinced by Dempsey at first.
I thought that doubt had been put to rest by now.
His legacy is legitimate - but it's mainly centered around the goal vs liverpool, the Juventus goal, and the one good season where he banged in loads of goals for us before jumping ship to Spurs as soon as they were interested.
I have it engrained in my memory, countless matches of going and feeling frustrated as he always seemed a yard off the pace, or just not managing to contribute properly. I have an image in my head pretty clearly associated with those frustrations.
Yes, the Liverpool goal, the Juve goals will go down in folklore, and rightly so - but I think it puts a lot of over the top celebrations of who he was for us and what he was like for a large majority of the time.
For the Juve game for instance, he only came on in the 70th min. Yes he made a huge and significant contribution, which is etched into Fulham history and that we're all grateful for. I've nothing against the man, or the fact he did have a professional career in the PL and with us.
One thing you can't take away from him is that he worked his arse off to get the opportunity and keep it, which makes a huge difference.
I don't think it's an inaccurate assessment either:
Statistically he played quite a bit, but as an attacking player didn't really contribute a huge amount.. Yes, the odd goals went in and that helps for a club like Fulham, but I think he always had a lot more in the bag which he floundered on until that one season before leaving.
These are his career stats for 6 years with us.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/clint-dempsey/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/27577/plus/0?saison=&verein=931&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=
His goal against Juventus will go down as one of our greatest. It still gives me goose bumps to watch it. Pure exhilaration.
Quote from: General on July 25, 2025, 05:15:04 PMHis legacy is legitimate - but it's mainly centered around the goal vs liverpool, the Juventus goal, and the one good season where he banged in loads of goals for us before jumping ship to Spurs as soon as they were interested.
I have it engrained in my memory, countless matches of going and feeling frustrated as he always seemed a yard off the pace, or just not managing to contribute properly. I have an image in my head pretty clearly associated with those frustrations.
Yes, the Liverpool goal, the Juve goals will go down in folklore, and rightly so - but I think it puts a lot of over the top celebrations of who he was for us and what he was like for a large majority of the time.
For the Juve game for instance, he only came on in the 70th min. Yes he made a huge and significant contribution, which is etched into Fulham history and that we're all grateful for. I've nothing against the man, or the fact he did have a professional career in the PL and with us.
One thing you can't take away from him is that he worked his arse off to get the opportunity and keep it, which makes a huge difference.
I don't think it's an inaccurate assessment either:
Statistically he played quite a bit, but as an attacking player didn't really contribute a huge amount.. Yes, the odd goals went in and that helps for a club like Fulham, but I think he always had a lot more in the bag which he floundered on until that one season before leaving.
These are his career stats for 6 years with us.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/clint-dempsey/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/27577/plus/0?saison=&verein=931&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=
I think a lot of this is fair, but it also comes across a little bit harsh - it was certainly more than just his final season where he really blossomed. The season before that too has impressive numbers.
And considering how many of his appearances came off the bench he did pretty well to get the return he did.
I'm not saying there weren't frustrations at times, but that could be said for pretty much every player.
Beyond merely numbers his determination and belief was so important for us, and for me he's something of a Fulham legend.
I struggle with the regular use of 'legend' in describing an ever increasing number of past player and lean towards the General's assessment but, I suppose, Dempsey does fit the definition of "an extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular (small FFC) field".
Was Dempsey the first of ours to have his head turned by Liverpool? The manner of his departure I feel tarnished his reputation. For me anyway.
Number 23 sold a lot of shirts
Dempsey was a player that really doesn't gets the credit he deserves, IMHO. He wasn't the most likable player. He certainly never exhibited that hundred yard smile like Carney or Sess have. He didn't give great interviews. Perhaps that's why he was criticized more often than not in these pages. Former US Nat team coach Bruce Arena was asked (as I recall) why he started Dempsey when he was such an unpolished player. He answered, "He tries poo." That sorta sums up the American approach to football. The object of football is to score goals. Dempsey did.
(poo=shite)
I liked him but can't go any further than that .
I think his second spell with us sullied his legacy to a certain extent. He didn't look committed and seemed to be using us just to get fit for the USA matches coming up
I really resent when people downplay Dempsey's Fulham career:
Dempsey joined us in the winter transfer window of 06/07, and scored a crucial goal vs Liverpool to help us survive relegation. He was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09 (tied), 10/11, and 11/12. He scored 50 Premier League goals for Fulham, making him our all-time top goal scorer in the Premier League. The next person on the list scored 32 Premier League goals for us. Dempsey was our player of the season in 10/11 and 11/12. He was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment. Dempsey was massive part of Fulham's most successive period, helping us go from relegation contenders to Europa league finalists.
How much more does someone need to do to be considered a Fulham legend? People love to point out his mediocre loan spell with us in 2014, but forget that he was only on loan with us for two months. Two months isn't exactly a lot of time to make an impact.
Quote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMI really resent when people downplay Dempsey's Fulham career:
Dempsey joined us in the winter transfer window of 06/07, and scored a crucial goal vs Liverpool to help us survive relegation. He was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09 (tied), 10/11, and 11/12. He scored 50 Premier League goals for Fulham, making him our all-time top goal scorer in the Premier League. The next person on the list scored 32 Premier League goals for us. Dempsey was our player of the season in 10/11 and 11/12. He was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment. Dempsey was massive part of Fulham's most successive period, helping us go from relegation contenders to Europa league finalists.
How much more does someone need to do to be considered a Fulham legend? People love to point out his mediocre loan spell with us in 2014, but forget that he was only on loan with us for two months. Two months isn't exactly a lot of time to make an impact.
Thank you, I could not have expressed it better than that :)
Remember too, he wasnt often our out and out striker. and with a return of more than 1 goal in every 4 appearances. That's an excellent return.
Quote from: Willham on July 25, 2025, 04:54:39 PMIt was kind of one of the things I loved about dempsey, he was masterclass but over and over again, we would have a new manager come in who didnt favour him.
And each time, Dempsey stuck with us and regained his spot, earning the trust of the manager.
I don't think you could really fairly argue that this even happened once, much less multiple times.
Quote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09
With 6 and 7 goals.
Quote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment.
The Juventus goal was actually Clint's only goal (or assist) in Europe that season. He was 15th among Fulham players in minutes played in European competition in 09-10.
It's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
Simply stating Dempsey doesn't tell us which Dempsey we are talking about.....I was expecting news about Johnny...
Quote from: Chi_FFC on July 26, 2025, 03:14:15 PMQuote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09
With 6 and 7 goals.
Quote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment.
The Juventus goal was actually Clint's only goal (or assist) in Europe that season. He was 15th among Fulham players in minutes played in European competition in 09-10.
Exactly my point that he had to earn the trust of Hodgson,
He wasnt used to great effect in the Europe run,
You've asked me a question then answered it yourself in your next post?
Quote from: Chi_FFC on July 26, 2025, 02:46:17 PMQuote from: Willham on July 25, 2025, 04:54:39 PMIt was kind of one of the things I loved about dempsey, he was masterclass but over and over again, we would have a new manager come in who didnt favour him.
And each time, Dempsey stuck with us and regained his spot, earning the trust of the manager.
I don't think you could really fairly argue that this even happened once, much less multiple times.
I also remember jol not being really into using dempsey at first but then he ended up having his best season with us and jol, once Jol was convinced.
Same went with Mark Hughes.
So that's Hodgson, hughes and jol.
That's not even including chris coleman, who was in charge when he first joined and had to prove himself to him, he wasnt signed as a top player, he was signed as a bit part player, yet throughout his career with us, he became an integral part of all the managers teams. Over and over and over and over again.
I think you need to look up Dempsey's career with fulham if you're truly asking that question.
Yeah he certainly had to fight for his spot under multiple managers. He mentions this on Fulham Fix.
He came in as an incredibly raw and willing player, and left a transformed player who reached a level no one really expected.
The Americans on here will go absolutely beserk
Quote from: Willham on July 26, 2025, 03:31:58 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on July 26, 2025, 03:14:15 PMQuote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09
With 6 and 7 goals.
Quote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment.
The Juventus goal was actually Clint's only goal (or assist) in Europe that season. He was 15th among Fulham players in minutes played in European competition in 09-10.
I think you need to look up Dempsey's career with fulham if your truly asking that question.
Mate, I think it's you who needs to take a closer look at Dempsey's Fulham career. To be clear in your original post you said Dempsey "was
masterclass but over and over again, we would have a new manager come in who didnt favour him. And each time, Dempsey stuck with us and regained his spot, earning the trust of the manager." Interestingly enough I've seen similar things said by some American fans re Dempsey's Fulham career. That being every time a new manager came to Fulham Clint had been regularly starting and playing well prior to the coaching change, but found himself undeservedly benched immediately or very quickly upon the new man's arrival. This myth goes on to state that Clint worked hard each time to overcome this unfair treatment and earn back his rightful spot in the starting 11.
It's a good story, but the facts don't support it. After Coleman brought him to England from MLS it was obvious to everyone he needed time to settle into the English game. He deservedly never starts a match for Chris who was fired only a few months after Clint arrived. Sanchez comes in and Clint has a few matches as an unused sub, a few more where he gets sub minutes before getting his first start in the last (meaningless) match of the season. After a few matches the following season he settles into a starting role for Sanchez (in a dreadful team headed for relegation). Hodgson replaced Sanchez halfway through that season and Clint largely kept his starting job (for 12 of the 18 remaining league matches) and Roy led us to our great escape.
Now I suppose Hodgson's first full season in charge is what a lot of folks point to when making the claim that Clint was somehow treated unfairly or that he had to do more than other players to earn playing time (though I don't buy it). Roy always did seem a bit unsure how to use Clint. But let's be clear Clint hadn't exactly had a 07-08 season that should have guaranteed him a starting role in the next. He had 6 goals on a team that needed a LOT of luck just to avoid relegation...almost nobody in that team had earned a guaranteed starting spot. Anyhow, Roy brought in some new players in his first summer with the club and Clint initially started on the bench before earning back his starting spot. The next season Fulham had a lot of matches to play with the long Europa League run so there was quite a bit of rotation but Clint started often in the league. However, as I noted above he didn't start much in the Europa campaign and frankly I think the results speak for themselves. Fulham was pretty damn successful with Clint in a sub role.
Anyhow, Mark Hughes took over only a couple weeks before the start of the 10-11 season and used his first few matches as basically his preseason. Unsurprisingly, he started the first match with the team that got Fulham to the Europa League final. Clint got the start in the 2nd match of the season against Manchester United. Our big money signing of that summer (Dembele) then got his chance the third league match of the season before Clint returned for good to the starting line up against Wolves in week 4. Clint would then go on to have by far his best season for Fulham (before the next one, that is).
Finally, Clint started every league match (except the final one...thigh injury?) in his one season with Jol.
Look, I wouldn't have taken issue with your post if you'd said something like "Clint worked very hard and improved year over year for Fulham, earning the trust of all his managers." That's unquestionably true. However the notion that he'd consistently been "masterclass" for Fulham and was unfairly relegated to the bench every time a new manager came is just nonsense. On the occasion or two he was benched, he could have had no complaints. Clint had done nothing early in his Fulham career (in some really poor Fulham squads) to merit being an unquestioned starter. The fact of the matter is it wasn't until Hughes's only season in charge that Clint truly did enough to even arguably use the word "masterclass" to describe his performances.
Quote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
Not sure I entirely agree it's jealousy. It perhaps depends on the context about whether this is within football or general society.
Need to be careful as quickly good mushroom as a discussion, but yeah relationships and attitudes towards USA are definitely complex.
As a club we have a great relationship with USA and American players, but I would say in football still now (and certainly then) there is a little bit of an attitude from us over here of 'what do you know?'. And I think that applied with fans and managers towards Clint for a good while.
Quote from: Chi_FFC on July 26, 2025, 04:57:41 PMQuote from: Willham on July 26, 2025, 03:31:58 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on July 26, 2025, 03:14:15 PMQuote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09
With 6 and 7 goals.
Quote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment.
The Juventus goal was actually Clint's only goal (or assist) in Europe that season. He was 15th among Fulham players in minutes played in European competition in 09-10.
I think you need to look up Dempsey's career with fulham if your truly asking that question.
Mate, I think it's you who needs to take a closer look at Dempsey's Fulham career. To be clear in your original post you said Dempsey "was masterclass but over and over again, we would have a new manager come in who didnt favour him. And each time, Dempsey stuck with us and regained his spot, earning the trust of the manager." Interestingly enough I've seen similar things said by some American fans re Dempsey's Fulham career. That being every time a new manager came to Fulham Clint had been regularly starting and playing well prior to the coaching change, but found himself undeservedly benched immediately or very quickly upon the new man's arrival. This myth goes on to state that Clint worked hard each time to overcome this unfair treatment and earn back his rightful spot in the starting 11.
It's a good story, but the facts don't support it. After Coleman brought him to England from MLS it was obvious to everyone he needed time to settle into the English game. He deservedly never starts a match for Chris who was fired only a few months after Clint arrived. Sanchez comes in and Clint has a few matches as an unused sub, a few more where he gets sub minutes before getting his first start in the last (meaningless) match of the season. After a few matches the following season he settles into a starting role for Sanchez (in a dreadful team headed for relegation). Hodgson replaced Sanchez halfway through that season and Clint largely kept his starting job (for 12 of the 18 remaining league matches) and Roy led us to our great escape.
Now I suppose Hodgson's first full season in charge is what a lot of folks point to when making the claim that Clint was somehow treated unfairly or that he had to do more than other players to earn playing time (though I don't buy it). Roy always did seem a bit unsure how to use Clint. But let's be clear Clint hadn't exactly had a 07-08 season that should have guaranteed him a starting role in the next. He had 6 goals on a team that needed a LOT of luck just to avoid relegation...almost nobody in that team had earned a guaranteed starting spot. Anyhow, Roy brought in some new players in his first summer with the club and Clint initially started on the bench before earning back his starting spot. The next season Fulham had a lot of matches to play with the long Europa League run so there was quite a bit of rotation but Clint started often in the league. However, as I noted above he didn't start much in the Europa campaign and frankly I think the results speak for themselves. Fulham was pretty damn successful with Clint in a sub role.
Anyhow, Mark Hughes took over only a couple weeks before the start of the 10-11 season and used his first few matches as basically his preseason. Unsurprisingly, he started the first match with the team that got Fulham to the Europa League final. Clint got the start in the 2nd match of the season against Manchester United. Our big money signing of that summer (Dembele) then got his chance the third league match of the season before Clint returned for good to the starting line up against Wolves in week 4. Clint would then go on to have by far his best season for Fulham (before the next one, that is).
Finally, Clint started every league match (except the final one...thigh injury?) in his one season with Jol.
Look, I wouldn't have taken issue with your post if you'd said something like "Clint worked very hard and improved year over year for Fulham, earning the trust of all his managers." That's unquestionably true. However the notion that he'd consistently been "masterclass" for Fulham and was unfairly relegated to the bench every time a new manager came is just nonsense. On the occasion or two he was benched, he could have had no complaints. Clint had done nothing early in his Fulham career (in some really poor Fulham squads) to merit being an unquestioned starter. The fact of the matter is it wasn't until Hughes's only season in charge that Clint truly did enough to even arguably use the word "masterclass" to describe his performances.
For a big part of what you're writing, your missing the bigger picture.
Demoted was played out of position to take up mcbrides place while he was injured during the initial part of Hodgson's patch of starts
Thats Hodgson being forced to make the decision. So thats not showing demosey had earned his spot then, he was used as a back up,
And it didnt work out too well then, he was alright but it wasn't his position.
I really can't be bothered to continue this. It looks more like your using wiki than that you actually watched the games.
Another thing I'd like to mention, i am not American, nor have any fascination with the overly large country.
I aren't trying to push an american rhetoric but trying to give a man due credit.
If you had said, I think you might be overly expressing things then maybe.
But at the very least, 2 of the managers in what you've said, clint proved himself when initially doubted.
I still think that Dempsey was almost a problem for roy, even when roy had seen how good he could be.
Roy was quite set on his tactics and formation, and Dempsey didnt naturally fit in that system, eventually he made changes but that was that
The season you mention Dempsey didnt play much in the European run, he was injured with a cruciate ligament injury, the game at juventus was actually his first game back if I remember properly.
So again, you say he was still a bit part player then, well no. The games he missed was mostly essential rotation and injury.
Again, I say, maybe you should revisit his Fulham career.
And I'm bot continuing this further, if you don't want to celebrate a Fulham player that's your choice.
Quote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
Jealousy over what exactly? Would appreciate if you would elaborate.
Quote from: Willham on July 26, 2025, 10:29:49 PMDemoted was played out of position to take up mcbrides place while he was injured during the initial part of Hodgson's patch of starts
Thats Hodgson being forced to make the decision. So thats not showing demosey had earned his spot then, he was used as a back up
Demoted? What are you talking about? McBride was injured early in the season while Sanchez was still in charge. Clint only found himself inserted in the starting line under Sanchez
after that injury to McBride.
Quote from: Willham on July 26, 2025, 10:29:49 PMAgain, I say, maybe you should revisit his Fulham career.
If anyone needs to do this it's you. You've written a plethora of mistaken things about Clint's Fulham career in this thread and I'll finish by returning to the one that prompted me to post in the first place. The notion that Clint had consistently been "masterclass" for Fulham and was unfairly relegated to the bench every time a new manager came is just nonsense. That just didn't happen. Further it wasn't until Clint's second to last full season with the club (Hughes's only season in charge) that Clint truly did enough on the pitch to even arguably use the word "masterclass" to describe his performances.
Dempsey had an ability to score goals from nothing, the majority of them that I remember came from him cutting in off the left wing, he was good in the air. Outside of scoring I didn't think he contributed that much to the team, but to be fair scoring goals is the name of the game. I don't see any reason to put Dempsey down, he scored some very important goals for us.
In the interest of fairness I'll also add that he isn't my type of player, I enjoyed watching Luis Bou Moute play who was a player who would dribble at players, just my personally preference.
Quote from: Chi_FFC on July 27, 2025, 01:28:46 AMQuote from: Willham on July 26, 2025, 10:29:49 PMDemoted was played out of position to take up mcbrides place while he was injured during the initial part of Hodgson's patch of starts
Thats Hodgson being forced to make the decision. So thats not showing demosey had earned his spot then, he was used as a back up
Demoted? What are you talking about? McBride was injured early in the season while Sanchez was still in charge. Clint only found himself inserted in the starting line under Sanchez after that injury to McBride.
Quote from: Willham on July 26, 2025, 10:29:49 PMAgain, I say, maybe you should revisit his Fulham career.
If anyone needs to do this it's you. You've written a plethora of mistaken things about Clint's Fulham career in this thread and I'll finish by returning to the one that prompted me to post in the first place. The notion that Clint had consistently been "masterclass" for Fulham and was unfairly relegated to the bench every time a new manager came is just nonsense. That just didn't happen. Further it wasn't until Clint's second to last full season with the club (Hughes's only season in charge) that Clint truly did enough on the pitch to even arguably use the word "masterclass" to describe his performances.
'Demoted' was an auto correct. It should say 'Dempsey'
And in the mcbride injury, that was with Hodgson,
I actually remember the game he returned from injury too. But before that Hodgson had been using dempsey in the mcbride hole rather than Dempsey's position.
I have a whole text conversation on messenger from the time with a friend, at the time I was complaining about Hodgson, playing people out of position and mcbride and bulland being injured.
You seem to have a block on your memory my friend :)
Bullard and mcbride returning from injury is pretty much what kept us up. Before that with the two players missing and dempsey out of position, we were very toothless. When everyone returned, thats when our great escape began.
Quote from: Chi_FFC on July 26, 2025, 03:14:15 PMQuote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09
With 6 and 7 goals.
Quote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment.
The Juventus goal was actually Clint's only goal (or assist) in Europe that season. He was 15th among Fulham players in minutes played in European competition in 09-10.
Yes, but a goal which will never be repeated in either its execution or importance.
Quote from: kiwian on July 27, 2025, 08:24:28 AMQuote from: Chi_FFC on July 26, 2025, 03:14:15 PMQuote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09
With 6 and 7 goals.
Quote from: FishaPrice on July 26, 2025, 06:21:20 AMHe was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment.
The Juventus goal was actually Clint's only goal (or assist) in Europe that season. He was 15th among Fulham players in minutes played in European competition in 09-10.
Yes, but a goal which will never be repeated in either its execution or importance.
He also scored quite an important goal in one of the play off qualifying rounds, and he was injured with a cruciate ligament for a lot of the European games.
Quote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
That's a very provocative statement. What exactly are we jealous of in your opinion?
Quote from: Twig on July 27, 2025, 09:29:57 AMQuote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
That's a very provocative statement. What exactly are we jealous of in your opinion?
What about the leading world's liberalism 🤥
the president 🤥
The size 🤥
The hospital systems 🤥
Low wages and tipping systems 🤥
State laws 🤥
The lack of 'u' in words 🤥
Maybe, just Maybe, I'm a little bit happier that i live in England 😂
Ream suffered a lot of managers that weren't convinced as well,now he's a club legend.Dempsey should be mentioned in same breath.
Honestly Perry, there is not one thing I am even remotely jealous of when it comes to the US at the moment... :slap:
Quote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
Given that we have a history of US players playing at Fulham I would suggest that Fulham fans are very appreciative of the US link. But I am intrigued as to what we are jealous of?
I often think about the fact that Dempsey was left on the bench for the final when Zamora was clearly unfit (as in pretty badly injured). In spite of that, legendary manager Woy elected to go with Bobby for an hour or so before swapping them over, and it didn't seem to me that he'd made the wrong decision.
My memory may be hazy at this stage, but I think Dempsey properly came good after all of that... then left us for Spurs, blaming the club for his pretty bad behaviour over the transfer.
Quote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 08:09:54 AM'Demoted' was an auto correct. It should say 'Dempsey'
And in the mcbride injury, that was with Hodgson,
You're the one who seems to have a memory block. McBride was injured against 'Boro in our 3rd match of the season while Sanchez was still in charge. Dempsey deservedly hadn't been starting prior to that injury and only got into the starting line up under Lawrie because of that injury. Roy wouldn't take over till like week 21 (McBride would return three or four weeks after that).
Quote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 08:09:54 AMBullard and mcbride returning from injury is pretty much what kept us up. Before that with the two players missing and dempsey out of position, we were very toothless. When everyone returned, thats when our great escape began.
Certainly was nice to have them back but if we're being honest the biggest reason for us staying up is adding Hangeland in the winter window and Roy tightening up our defense. We were actually slightly more prolific offensively under Sanchez that season, 21 goals in 20 matches vs 17 goals in 18 under Roy (and Bullard didn't play a single match under Sanchez while McBride only played a little over two). However our defense got considerably better under Roy. We went from conceding 35 in 20 under Lawrie (1.75 per game) to 25 in 18 under Roy (1.39 per game).
Quote from: Chi_FFC on July 27, 2025, 03:59:35 PMQuote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 08:09:54 AM'Demoted' was an auto correct. It should say 'Dempsey'
And in the mcbride injury, that was with Hodgson,
You're the one who seems to have a memory block. McBride was injured against 'Boro in our 3rd match of the season while Sanchez was still in charge. Dempsey deservedly hadn't been starting prior to that injury and only got into the starting line up under Lawrie because of that injury. Roy wouldn't take over till like week 21 (McBride would return three or four weeks after that).
Quote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 08:09:54 AMBullard and mcbride returning from injury is pretty much what kept us up. Before that with the two players missing and dempsey out of position, we were very toothless. When everyone returned, thats when our great escape began.
Certainly was nice to have them back but if we're being honest the biggest reason for us staying up is adding Hangeland in the winter window and Roy tightening up our defense. We were actually slightly more prolific offensively under Sanchez that season, 21 goals in 20 matches vs 17 goals in 18 under Roy (and Bullard didn't play a single match under Sanchez while McBride only played a little over two). However our defense got considerably better under Roy. We went from conceding 35 in 20 under Lawrie (1.75 per game) to 25 in 18 under Roy (1.39 per game).
Mcbride played a grand total of of 13 starts and (3) substitute appearances that season, I think you mis understand how long he aas out for. (Cup included)
Dempsey on the other hand 28 (6)
Very clear with that then, that my eyes didn't decieve me when I watched the whole season :)
Quote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 04:59:21 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on July 27, 2025, 03:59:35 PMQuote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 08:09:54 AM'Demoted' was an auto correct. It should say 'Dempsey'
And in the mcbride injury, that was with Hodgson,
You're the one who seems to have a memory block. McBride was injured against 'Boro in our 3rd match of the season while Sanchez was still in charge. Dempsey deservedly hadn't been starting prior to that injury and only got into the starting line up under Lawrie because of that injury. Roy wouldn't take over till like week 21 (McBride would return three or four weeks after that).
Quote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 08:09:54 AMBullard and mcbride returning from injury is pretty much what kept us up. Before that with the two players missing and dempsey out of position, we were very toothless. When everyone returned, thats when our great escape began.
Certainly was nice to have them back but if we're being honest the biggest reason for us staying up is adding Hangeland in the winter window and Roy tightening up our defense. We were actually slightly more prolific offensively under Sanchez that season, 21 goals in 20 matches vs 17 goals in 18 under Roy (and Bullard didn't play a single match under Sanchez while McBride only played a little over two). However our defense got considerably better under Roy. We went from conceding 35 in 20 under Lawrie (1.75 per game) to 25 in 18 under Roy (1.39 per game).
Mcbride played a grand total of of 13 starts and (3) substitute appearances that season, I think you mis understand how long he aas out for. (Cup included)
No mate, I'm well aware of how long he was out for. The point is the injury happened early in the season when Sanchez was the manager (and that Dempsey was a bench player who replaced McBride under Sanchez). McBride missed 17 league matches managed by Sanchez that season and only 4 managed by Roy.
And McBride actually had 14 starts and 3 sub appearances that season.
Quote from: Chi_FFC on July 27, 2025, 05:14:41 PMQuote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 04:59:21 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on July 27, 2025, 03:59:35 PMQuote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 08:09:54 AM'Demoted' was an auto correct. It should say 'Dempsey'
And in the mcbride injury, that was with Hodgson,
You're the one who seems to have a memory block. McBride was injured against 'Boro in our 3rd match of the season while Sanchez was still in charge. Dempsey deservedly hadn't been starting prior to that injury and only got into the starting line up under Lawrie because of that injury. Roy wouldn't take over till like week 21 (McBride would return three or four weeks after that).
Quote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 08:09:54 AMBullard and mcbride returning from injury is pretty much what kept us up. Before that with the two players missing and dempsey out of position, we were very toothless. When everyone returned, thats when our great escape began.
Certainly was nice to have them back but if we're being honest the biggest reason for us staying up is adding Hangeland in the winter window and Roy tightening up our defense. We were actually slightly more prolific offensively under Sanchez that season, 21 goals in 20 matches vs 17 goals in 18 under Roy (and Bullard didn't play a single match under Sanchez while McBride only played a little over two). However our defense got considerably better under Roy. We went from conceding 35 in 20 under Lawrie (1.75 per game) to 25 in 18 under Roy (1.39 per game).
Mcbride played a grand total of of 13 starts and (3) substitute appearances that season, I think you mis understand how long he aas out for. (Cup included)
No mate, I'm well aware of how long he was out for. The point is the injury happened early in the season when Sanchez was the manager (and that Dempsey was a bench player who replaced McBride under Sanchez). McBride missed 17 league matches managed by Sanchez that season and only 4 managed by Roy.
And McBride actually had 14 starts and 3 sub appearances that season.
Okay, fair.
Then let me revise what I said,
Every manager, barring Hodgson, who originally played dempsey out of position BUT NOT IN MCBRIDES ABSENCE, had to go through a process of not entrusting dempsey originally.
In hodgson's case, a little different but the same thing in it's entirety, hodgson dropped him when he could sign a replacement.
Until dempsey proved his masterclass again and regained his spot.
Better? I still dont understand your point, one manager of out them all doesn't prove against my point. Also Hodgson seemingly still had to have the same process as thd others with dempsey.... a test that dempsey continuingly passed
Quote from: Willham on July 27, 2025, 06:59:02 PMStuff
Look mate, I have no idea what you're even trying to say anymore. You're regularly getting basic facts wrong and your arguments are all over the place. Anyhow, nothing you've said has contradicted (or frankly really even been responsive to) the original point I made which is that the notion that Clint had consistently been "masterclass" for Fulham and was unfairly relegated to the bench every time a new manager came was nonsense. And with that I'll leave you to attack whatever straw man argument next pops into your mind.
Quote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
So Perry, you made a very provocative statement and numerous posters have responded and asked you to explain yourself. Do you have the balls or will you just run and hide?
Speaking as a Dempsey fan, the idea that he's a club legend or a "masterclass" every time he laced up for us is quite a generous assessment.
He was pretty far down the list in terms of importance to Hodgson's teams (Murphy, Davies, Duff, Zamora, even Etuhu far far more important, to say nothing of H&H), and the second he stepped up to "elite" level he forced a transfer and blamed the club.
Quote from: cookieg on July 27, 2025, 01:52:34 PMQuote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
Given that we have a history of US players playing at Fulham I would suggest that Fulham fans are very appreciative of the US link. But I am intrigued as to what we are jealous of?
What should you lot feel jealous about? Well, we're better looking and have perfected the language. That and how magnanimous we are about you guys burning our capital a few years back. ::wink::
Staggered on this message board how every thread devolves into some either/or reductive discussion.
Is it really a matter of Dempsey was a maestro or overrated, not all that important?
Surely we can all appreciate that he was a player who was a little raw, a bit of a rough diamond, who became an important and impressive player.
Quote from: YankeeJim on July 28, 2025, 12:01:13 AMQuote from: cookieg on July 27, 2025, 01:52:34 PMQuote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
Given that we have a history of US players playing at Fulham I would suggest that Fulham fans are very appreciative of the US link. But I am intrigued as to what we are jealous of?
What should you lot feel jealous about? Well, we're better looking and have perfected the language. That and how magnanimous we are about you guys burning our capital a few years back. ::wink::
It's like us and the Romans, after all what did they ever do for us?
Quote from: Twig on July 27, 2025, 07:56:58 PMQuote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
So Perry, you made a very provocative statement and numerous posters have responded and asked you to explain yourself. Do you have the balls or will you just run and hide?
I'll leave that to your imagination Twig, no need for me to rub it in
Plus all I said was a "hint" and you get your tail up, that in itself proves there's something going on
Well, I'm an American and Dempsey fan (he was really fun to watch in his prime). Not sure what the standard for "club legend" is, but I think being the Club's all-time leading Premiership goalscoerer in a relatively small number of seasons (5 full seasons) is a good recommendation. In those 5 seasons, he had 65 goal contributions - all against the highest level of competition. We would kill for another player that productive right now.
Please, please, please can we get another player this productive????
(And whoever mentioned Hangeland earlier - also an outstanding player. We could use another one!)
Quote from: perry geyton on July 28, 2025, 05:48:51 PMQuote from: Twig on July 27, 2025, 07:56:58 PMQuote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
So Perry, you made a very provocative statement and numerous posters have responded and asked you to explain yourself. Do you have the balls or will you just run and hide?
I'll leave that to your imagination Twig, no need for me to rub it in
Plus all I said was a "hint" and you get your tail up, that in itself proves there's something going on
Cowardly response, as expected.
Quote from: perry geyton on July 28, 2025, 05:48:51 PMQuote from: Twig on July 27, 2025, 07:56:58 PMQuote from: perry geyton on July 26, 2025, 03:24:44 PMIt's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy
There's no denying that Clint was top top draw
Moving to the Spurs was his only downside
So Perry, you made a very provocative statement and numerous posters have responded and asked you to explain yourself. Do you have the balls or will you just run and hide?
I'll leave that to your imagination Twig, no need for me to rub it in
Plus all I said was a "hint" and you get your tail up, that in itself proves there's something going on
Conspiracy theorist are you?
Quote from: DadCreature on July 28, 2025, 06:48:56 PMWell, I'm an American and Dempsey fan (he was really fun to watch in his prime). Not sure what the standard for "club legend" is, but I think being the Club's all-time leading Premiership goalscoerer in a relatively small number of seasons (5 full seasons) is a good recommendation. In those 5 seasons, he had 65 goal contributions - all against the highest level of competition. We would kill for another player that productive right now.
Please, please, please can we get another player this productive????
(And whoever mentioned Hangeland earlier - also an outstanding player. We could use another one!)
Let's also not forget Tim Ream
Another one who took loads of abuse over the years
A true pro, up there with Brian and Clint
On the bench in Hamburg Final.
Roy never really trusted him in our system at that time.
Other than Perry, I imagine very few Europeans will be jealous of Americans in the current climate.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on July 29, 2025, 09:29:56 PMOther than Perry, I imagine very few Europeans will be jealous of Americans in the current climate.
Like Europes any better 😂 comical
Whole worlds a mess
Was good to see DT put your mayor in his place though whilst Starmer sat there quivering
I always admired his never say die attitude and determination, a pretty good player too, and scored some memorable goals.
Fulham legend - why not? he represents that generation of Americans playing for Fulham, which included Brian McBride, and many other top players.
Quote from: perry geyton on July 30, 2025, 07:25:27 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 29, 2025, 09:29:56 PMOther than Perry, I imagine very few Europeans will be jealous of Americans in the current climate.
Like Europes any better 😂 comical
Whole worlds a mess
Was good to see DT put your mayor in his place though whilst Starmer sat there quivering
It's cute that you think that.
Trump is always certain only he knows best. He's confidently wrong and boasts like a man who Googled half a fact. He's a gold-plated Dunning-Kruger effect.
Quote from: perry geyton on July 30, 2025, 07:25:27 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 29, 2025, 09:29:56 PMOther than Perry, I imagine very few Europeans will be jealous of Americans in the current climate.
Like Europes any better 😂 comical
Whole worlds a mess
Was good to see DT put your mayor in his place though whilst Starmer sat there quivering
We have several mayors across our country but perhaps that point passed you by? I assume you mean Mr Khan, the Mayor of London and frankly it's not Trump's business to put our political leaders in their place. If the boot were on the other foot I'm pretty sure he wouldn't appreciate interference in local US politics by Mr Starmer!
PS you still never explained what we are meant to be jealous of. I guess that was just an empty insult with zero substance? Fairly true to type I guess.
Quote from: Twig on July 30, 2025, 09:15:04 PMQuote from: perry geyton on July 30, 2025, 07:25:27 PMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on July 29, 2025, 09:29:56 PMOther than Perry, I imagine very few Europeans will be jealous of Americans in the current climate.
Like Europes any better 😂 comical
Whole worlds a mess
Was good to see DT put your mayor in his place though whilst Starmer sat there quivering
We have several mayors across our country but perhaps that point passed you by? I assume you mean Mr Khan, the Mayor of London and frankly it's not Trump's business to put our political leaders in their place. If the boot were on the other foot I'm pretty sure he wouldn't appreciate interference in local US politics by Mr Starmer!
PS you still never explained what we are meant to be jealous of. I guess that was just an empty insult with zero substance? Fairly true to type I guess.
Theres Pros & Cons in living anywhere Twig,
Unlike you I don't believe the country I reside in necessarily reigns supreme, but I remain open minded on all accounts, prob cos I've moved around the world quite a bit over the years changing my perceptions on things
I'm also aware that Mr, Khan is the major of London as I did grow up and spend my youth in the UK/London after all
If I remember right you recently informed me that I couldn't appreciate watching Fulham's Europa excursions on the TV because I wasn't at the games
Makes no difference to me where I watch it as long as I'm watching Fulham from near or far
I left England at a relatively young age and received a certain amount of abuse for it from certain friends that I lived amongst as they couldn't understand why I'd wanna go live in America,,,,they still don't understand to this day,
I'm a music guy and I wanted to go to the place that created a lot of the best music in the world in my eyes
Blues
Rock & Roll
Country
PUNK ROCK
Disco
Techno
House music
Rap
Etc. Etc
So there's one small example
Amazing how me saying a hint of jealousy could wind you up so much, your definitely on the defensive