I know it's been said by many, but if enough people in the game were to really protest, surely VAR could be scrapped?
I wasn't at the Chelsea match but two terrible decisions against us denied Fulham of a terrific win.
SILVA had every right to be fuming. The first decision (scrapping Fulham's goal) was so blatantly wrong, that the match should be replayed. The referee and the VAR should have their licences taken away.
Former Whites manager Scotty Parker went on record at the weekend, saying soon the game will be run by computers and we will have much more of the same- someone stood on a player's big toe in a legitamate tackle 2 minutes before a goal was scored and so therefore it isn't a goal. He's absolutely spot on.
The situation is now becoming ridiculous. If the referee is told to go to the monitor, that can only mean one thing. To agree with the VAR.
If there were enough members to sign a petition to get this wretched form of officiating abolished, I would gladly forward it to the FA myself.
Food for thought anyway.
Start a petition abd I'd sign it!
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on September 02, 2025, 06:48:09 AMStart a petition abd I'd sign it!
A fulham fan has put on a "Remove VAR from Football" petition. Reckon it's the sort of thing that'd gain a bit of traction if it was shared.
https://www.change.org/p/remove-var-from-football-9a2c129b-499c-41dd-9461-2323bb3a6d0e?source_location=search
I wonder if Rob Jones still thinks he made the right decision?
The error was down to a human not technology.
I do not think the problem is VAR per se.
The problem that VAR has caused is that it is used incorrectly by sub standard officials.
Muniz didn't foul anyone for the goal and VAR showed that, but the officials, more than one, decided it was a foul when everyone else watching knew it wasn't.
VAR was not reesponsible for Rob Jones adding extra imagined time to the first half.
VAR clearly showed the penalty decision should have been ruled out for four offences by Chelsea players prior to Sess being involved. The VAR officials and Rovb Jones decided to ignore the rules.
Just my take.
For decisions of fact. Offsides, ball crossing the line. Fine. But for opinions that may or may not be a foul, handball, a foul three hours ago getting out of the car park. VAR is clearly open to abuse by incompetence bordering on the corrupt.
The referee decisions on the field must be final. A clear and obvious error seemed fine on paper. But again that has been abused by VAR who seem to want to ruin the excitement of the game.
I never wanted VAR in the first place, but the genie is out of the bottle now. If it were scrapped, people would start venting about terrible errors, as they did before VAR was implemented, until they realised that VAR does not eliminate arguments, it just creates a different set of things to argue about.
As VAR is here to stay, football needs to learn more from how cricket and rugby union operate video reviews. DRS and TMO are not perfect and they don't resolve everything beyond dispute (e.g. the winning Lions try against Australia in the Second Test was to me the right decision, but it is a judgement call), but at least they correct what everyone agrees are clear and obvious errors. LBWs where there is a huge inside edge, for example.
The VAR officials need to raise thr threshold at which they intervene.
Referees need to have the bottle to say to VAR "thanks for showing me that, very interesting, but I'm sticking with my decision". How often does that happen? Hardly ever.
What worries me is the on field referee, looking at the replay, must have known it wasn't a foul. To get where he is today he must be one of the best referees in the country so he's not an idiot. But was there niggling in the back of his mind the thought that if he allowed the goal he would get much more flak from Chelsea and their fans than he would get from Fulham and their fans if he disallowed it. So a top level referee cops out and supports a decision he knows is wrong.
In a nutshell I'd like to see more referees standing up for themselves and backing their decisions, not caving in and going along with the VAR view of the world.
Rob Jones has refereed us 18 times, we have won 3
I think VAR is ok, when used properly. As several posters above have said, it wasn't the technology that was at fault, but human interpretation that failed. I don't know who these folks are responsible for making those calls, along with the on-field ref, but it's hard to believe how all of them can get some of these calls so wrong.
Quote from: Moussa Dembele the 3rd on September 02, 2025, 04:21:11 PMQuote from: Thailand Mick on September 02, 2025, 04:14:29 PMRob Jones has refereed us 18 times, we have won 3
Holy sh*t
In my opinion, this is the sort of statistic that shouldn't be taken at face value.
Here is the list of matches, going back to 2017, in which Rob Jones has officiated:
(https://i.ibb.co/XGLHn4h/Rob-Jones-match-by-match.jpg)
I know I may have to be reminded of things I have overlooked but, last Saturday aside, I don't see much to get worked up about in that list of matches. The most contentious decision I can recall is the stoppage-time penalty
we were awarded at West Ham in 2020 (Lookman's infamous 'Panenka') when there was minimal contact with Cairney's foot. We were also given a penalty at Old Trafford (which Mitrovic squandered) in 2023. He appears to be a referee who tries not to brandish cards too readily: no sendings off and only one game in which he issued more than 3 yellows.
Sure, we were the victims of a bad mistake at the weekend, but it's not part of a history of such decisions. Unless my memory has forgotten a number of incidents, there isn't the evidence to imply Rob Jones has a long-term grudge against us.
A competent match official would have looked at the screen and said "No, not enough in it - the goal stands".
Competent VAR officials would have had a quick look, and let it pass by in the first place.
If it gets to the stage when even that Blue Vermin knob Jason Cundy says it was the wrong call (which he did on Saturday afternoon, and he NEVER utters a word against that lot), then you KNOW there's a major problem.
If they are all deemed incompetent enough to have got this so badly wrong, then they need booting back down to the National League to learn their trade.
If they are not deemed incompetent, then I can only assume they are corrupt.
Match officials mic'd up at 7pm will have the VAR chatter on why the King goal was disallowed...
Howard Webb said VAR was incorrect to intervene.
He did not say it was not a foul or Rob Jones was wrong to award a foul having seen the review.
Therein lies the problem. It never was, or ever will be, a foul to me & just about every football fan that has seen the incident.
Quote from: ffc73 on September 02, 2025, 07:20:48 PMHoward Webb said VAR was incorrect to intervene.
He did not say it was not a foul or Rob Jones was wrong to award a foul having seen the review.
Therein lies the problem. It never was, or ever will be, a foul to me & just about every football fan that has seen the incident.
The trouble is when they are called to the screen they will never stick by their original decision and tell VAR to sod off.
Even Jones called it as no foul on the field and said it was two players challenging.
Quote from: FFC007 on September 02, 2025, 06:47:26 PMMatch officials mic'd up at 7pm will have the VAR chatter on why the King goal was disallowed...
https://twitter.com/danpowelldjp/status/1962981502863421913
Here's the video of it, for those interested.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 02, 2025, 11:23:21 PMQuote from: FFC007 on September 02, 2025, 06:47:26 PMMatch officials mic'd up at 7pm will have the VAR chatter on why the King goal was disallowed...
https://twitter.com/danpowelldjp/status/1962981502863421913
Here's the video of it, for those interested.
The whole thing is horrific. Watching in slow motion is ludicrous for this, because it really does not show Challobah coming at Muniz from behind and as such there is no way Muniz avoids making contact, if Muniz would have toppled over, it would have been a foul to us no doubt. Howard Webb needed to say theat the VAR official Stamfors Sailsbury and the on field ref Shed End Jones bioth made the error... OK one error I understand but Jones just had to say he disagreed... as for the other voices in the VAR box, what planet are they on?
It's Ok to push Bassey in the back before goal, Jones the 4th official and Andreson to be intefered with before the Sess incident stopping him clearing the ball... and to hear them say Muniz prevented Challobah from defending is insane.Howard Webb is apologising for proffesional referees being hopless, wilful negligance.
Even Dermot Gallagher is shocked
Was there a mention of Chelsea's handball and stab on Iwobi before the penalty was given or they only discussed the disallowed goal?
Scrap var? Gets my vote and has done so since day 1. The worst thing that has happened to football.
Quote from: ffc73 on September 02, 2025, 07:20:48 PMHoward Webb said VAR was incorrect to intervene.
He did not say it was not a foul or Rob Jones was wrong to award a foul having seen the review.
Therein lies the problem. It never was, or ever will be, a foul to me & just about every football fan that has seen the incident.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1kzkrp8dmgo
Here's the link to what Webb said.
Key phrase was the decision
"wasn't controversial, it was wrong".He's still a fan of VAR, saying it's intervened fewer times here than it has in the rest of Europe.
Quote from: Ludlow Richard on September 02, 2025, 04:05:36 PMReferees need to have the bottle to say to VAR "thanks for showing me that, very interesting, but I'm sticking with my decision". How often does that happen? Hardly ever.
What worries me is the on field referee, looking at the replay, must have known it wasn't a foul. To get where he is today he must be one of the best referees in the country so he's not an idiot. But was there niggling in the back of his mind the thought that if he allowed the goal he would get much more flak from Chelsea and their fans than he would get from Fulham and their fans if he disallowed it. So a top level referee cops out and supports a decision he knows is wrong.
In a nutshell I'd like to see more referees standing up for themselves and backing their decisions, not caving in and going along with the VAR view of the world.
I totally agree. The pressure to agree with the VAR must be very intense.
Sometimes I think whether there is, dare I say it, a whiff of corruption involved in these ridiculously bad decisons.
Quote from: Ludlow Richard on September 02, 2025, 04:05:36 PMReferees need to have the bottle to say to VAR "thanks for showing me that, very interesting, but I'm sticking with my decision". How often does that happen? Hardly ever.
What worries me is the on field referee, looking at the replay, must have known it wasn't a foul. To get where he is today he must be one of the best referees in the country so he's not an idiot. But was there niggling in the back of his mind the thought that if he allowed the goal he would get much more flak from Chelsea and their fans than he would get from Fulham and their fans if he disallowed it. So a top level referee cops out and supports a decision he knows is wrong.
In a nutshell I'd like to see more referees standing up for themselves and backing their decisions, not caving in and going along with the VAR view of the world.
I totally agree. The pressure to agree with the VAR must be very intense.
Sometimes I think whether there is, dare I say it, a whiff of corruption involved in these ridiculously bad decisons.
Quote from: Andrew on September 02, 2025, 11:41:17 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on September 02, 2025, 11:23:21 PMQuote from: FFC007 on September 02, 2025, 06:47:26 PMMatch officials mic'd up at 7pm will have the VAR chatter on why the King goal was disallowed...
https://twitter.com/danpowelldjp/status/1962981502863421913
Here's the video of it, for those interested.
The whole thing is horrific. Watching in slow motion is ludicrous for this, because it really does not show Challobah coming at Muniz from behind and as such there is no way Muniz avoids making contact, if Muniz would have toppled over, it would have been a foul to us no doubt. Howard Webb needed to say theat the VAR official Stamfors Sailsbury and the on field ref Shed End Jones bioth made the error... OK one error I understand but Jones just had to say he disagreed... as for the other voices in the VAR box, what planet are they on?
It's Ok to push Bassey in the back before goal, Jones the 4th official and Andreson to be intefered with before the Sess incident stopping him clearing the ball... and to hear them say Muniz prevented Challobah from defending is insane.Howard Webb is apologising for proffesional referees being hopless, wilful negligance.
I think a petition could be started right here on the FOF site to scrap VAR once and for all
Quote from: Ludlow Richard on September 02, 2025, 04:05:36 PMReferees need to have the bottle to say to VAR "thanks for showing me that, very interesting, but I'm sticking with my decision". How often does that happen? Hardly ever.
What worries me is the on field referee, looking at the replay, must have known it wasn't a foul. To get where he is today he must be one of the best referees in the country so he's not an idiot. But was there niggling in the back of his mind the thought that if he allowed the goal he would get much more flak from Chelsea and their fans than he would get from Fulham and their fans if he disallowed it. So a top level referee cops out and supports a decision he knows is wrong.
In a nutshell I'd like to see more referees standing up for themselves and backing their decisions, not caving in and going along with the VAR view of the world.
I totally agree. The pressure to agree with the VAR must be very intense.
Sometimes I think whether there is, dare I say it, a whiff of corruption involved in these ridiculously bad decisons.
Quote from: Andrew on September 02, 2025, 11:41:17 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on September 02, 2025, 11:23:21 PMQuote from: FFC007 on September 02, 2025, 06:47:26 PMMatch officials mic'd up at 7pm will have the VAR chatter on why the King goal was disallowed...
https://twitter.com/danpowelldjp/status/1962981502863421913
Here's the video of it, for those interested.
The whole thing is horrific. Watching in slow motion is ludicrous for this, because it really does not show Challobah coming at Muniz from behind and as such there is no way Muniz avoids making contact, if Muniz would have toppled over, it would have been a foul to us no doubt. Howard Webb needed to say theat the VAR official Stamfors Sailsbury and the on field ref Shed End Jones bioth made the error... OK one error I understand but Jones just had to say he disagreed... as for the other voices in the VAR box, what planet are they on?
It's Ok to push Bassey in the back before goal, Jones the 4th official and Andreson to be intefered with before the Sess incident stopping him clearing the ball... and to hear them say Muniz prevented Challobah from defending is insane.Howard Webb is apologising for proffesional referees being hopless, wilful negligance.
I think a petition could be started right here on the FOF site to scrap VAR once and for all
Quote from: Rufus Brevetts Tracksuit on September 02, 2025, 06:15:31 PMA competent match official would have looked at the screen and said "No, not enough in it - the goal stands".
Competent VAR officials would have had a quick look, and let it pass by in the first place.
If it gets to the stage when even that Blue Vermin knob Jason Cundy says it was the wrong call (which he did on Saturday afternoon, and he NEVER utters a word against that lot), then you KNOW there's a major problem.
If they are all deemed incompetent enough to have got this so badly wrong, then they need booting back down to the National League to learn their trade.
If they are not deemed incompetent, then I can only assume they are corrupt.
Couldn't agree more. I have often thought there must be an element of corruption going on with some of these officials....whether it's the match referee or the VAR. Time for a petition??
Quote from: Jim© on September 02, 2025, 10:08:10 AMQuote from: SuffolkWhite on September 02, 2025, 06:48:09 AMStart a petition abd I'd sign it!
A fulham fan has put on a "Remove VAR from Football" petition. Reckon it's the sort of thing that'd gain a bit of traction if it was shared.
https://www.change.org/p/remove-var-from-football-9a2c129b-499c-41dd-9461-2323bb3a6d0e?source_location=search
Thank you for this. I've gone on the link and signed it. However, there's only one or two people before me who have and that might be due to the fact that it asks for a donation of 3 Hong Kong dollars? Not sure why and why Hong Kong?? You can just sign it anyway and share the link with someone else without paying, which is what I did.
100% agree. Never wanted it in the first place and the nonsense has just confirmed to me why.
So frustrating and to add insult to injury they rarely ever admit to a mistake. OK they did admit this time but it was not the only mistake this idiot referee made.
He needs to be dropped.
Or we could just scrap Chelsea from the league.... they'll be off soon anyway - into the superduper european league
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 03, 2025, 04:48:43 PMOr we could just scrap Chelsea from the league.... they'll be off soon anyway - into the superduper european league
And Man City when #115 is concluded..
Chelsea fans piping up that it was a foul. An irritating bunch.
I think more pressure and accountability should be put on refs to make sure they take responsibility for making the right decision, similar with VAR officials. It's like the need to holding senior execs responsible for gross negligence when an oil spill happens, or a bank fails.
Not just the Chelsea game where VAR and the referee were amiss!
https://www.footballinsider247.com/never-seen-before-ex-pgmol-chief-emails-ifab-over-new-ruling-after-fulham-vs-man-united-drama/ (https://www.footballinsider247.com/never-seen-before-ex-pgmol-chief-emails-ifab-over-new-ruling-after-fulham-vs-man-united-drama/)