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26th May 2011
http://www.ken.coton.btinternet.co.uk/ (http://www.ken.coton.btinternet.co.uk/)
What do Cheryl Cole and Ashwater Press have in common?
Answer: They've both been dumped this week!
- Cheryl by a tv programme; Ashwater by Fulham FC.
"After 364 days of negotiation, after 19 years of Fulham books, after 17 books about our favourite club, and after over 100 years of supporting the club by Ken and Martin, Ashwater Press has been told by Fulham FC that they have 'failed' in their attempt to become a 'licensed partner' for supplying books, as others offered a better 'all-round package'. (Whatever that means.) So currently, no Fulham books from Ashwater, no support from Fulham, nothing".
... :035: What an absolute disgrace, Ashwater Press have published most books about Fulham, among their many authors was the recently deceased Peter Thomson and Alex Ferguson aka "The Traveller". Fulham FC have had an ongoing 'feud' with Ken Coton and Martin Plumb even over selling the famous book Johnny Haynes "The Maestro".
Fulham FC, hang your sorry heads in shame :014:, this is disgraceful treatment of loyal and talented fans who love the club...
Some of the people behind Fulham have always been petty... this seems a shame ... Ive been looking at Ken Coton's pictures since i was 5 years old!
Yes, I saw about this earlier as well - is an outrage. It's shoddy at best and the way that the true long time Fulham supporters are being treated is shameful. I think sadly it is a sign of the times, just need to look up the road at the goings on at QPR this week for another example.
The particular piece that puzzled me was ".... a 'licensed partner' for supplying books, as others offered a better 'all-round package'..." Who else would be able to offer a better package on books that the experts in Messrs Coton and Plumb? Well, I guess there may be quite a few who could provide the club with even greater profit margins, but the key flaw in that is that the books would not be about Fulham and therefore wouldn't sell anyway, at least not in Fulham outlets.
Sarah Brooks (or whoever it is) - you have a lot to be ashamed about. What price loyalty :013:
Ken's photo's are a massive part of the clubs history and people like him should be treated with respect....although i dont know the ins and outs of it but if you do then why not organise something to make the club aware of yours/our feelings?
It worked with Diddy !
I have no idea the ins and outs of the problem. But Ashwater Press have been a fine servant to the club and its supporters, official or not. The older fans will remember the excellent photos in the prog every week taken by Ken Cotton. He will forever be remembered to taking pictures with heart, with charm and that actually showed movement. The modern stuff sometimes lacks that.
Anyway, as I say,I don't know the ins and outs but will support Ashwater Press whenever possible,
sorry you may have misunderstood....i grew up with kens photos and he always seemed to catch that moment that the ball hit the back of the net(an art that seems to be missing from modern day programmes) my point is that if there ha been a wrong done..organise and get them to right it!
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 27, 2011, 12:01:05 AM
I have no idea the ins and outs of the problem. But Ashwater Press have been a fine servant to the club and its supporters, official or not. The older fans will remember the excellent photos in the prog every week taken by Ken Cotton. He will forever be remembered to taking pictures with heart, with charm and that actually showed movement. The modern stuff sometimes lacks that.
Anyway, as I say,I don't know the ins and outs but will support Ashwater Press whenever possible,
Quote from: cutbushcitylimits on May 27, 2011, 12:06:00 AM
sorry you may have misunderstood....i grew up with kens photos and he always seemed to catch that moment that the ball hit the back of the net(an art that seems to be missing from modern day programmes) my point is that if there ha been a wrong done..organise and get them to right it!Quote from: Lighthouse on May 27, 2011, 12:01:05 AM
I have no idea the ins and outs of the problem. But Ashwater Press have been a fine servant to the club and its supporters, official or not. The older fans will remember the excellent photos in the prog every week taken by Ken Cotton. He will forever be remembered to taking pictures with heart, with charm and that actually showed movement. The modern stuff sometimes lacks that.
Anyway, as I say,I don't know the ins and outs but will support Ashwater Press whenever possible,
Sorry, nothing I wrote referred to anything you wrote. Just giving support and agreeing.
Ok so how do we organise an online petition, or a letter of concern to the club?
Others beat me to it. How do we organise and also thsi is a sign of the times.
Sad to read this, what next GJ has to go because he is not always pc.???
Keeping stuff shirts in place like the FA do is one thing but people associated with clubs with a proven tack record is another.
FULHAM :tom: :tom: :tom: :tom: :tom: :tom: :tom: :tom: are you doing.
I guess the club look at these boards.
I won't buy any club merchandise of any sort from the club or in the ground until I can buy Ashwater books from the club shop. (and until they stop taking my bottle tops)
Mind you the profits for Ashwater will be much higher selling direct to supporters and the mods here could possibly help by displaying a prominent link.
Firstly this is a great shame and for a while now I feel the club are becoming further adrift from the fans, the problem is, alot of us have supported fulham for years and have always been use to us being a family club where the club and fans work together and help each other, sadly in this day and age, we have now become a business and are losing the close knit feel we've always had, we have grown. ten fold in this last 20 years.
Of course I will mention the supporters club, if Ee still had a strong and vibrant supporters club, it would give the fans a bit more of a voice
I was hoping that having a fan on the board of directors would of helped bring the gap between club and fans, but obviously not, that's not a slur on Dennis turner as I wonder how much insight he actually get,
Super Mitch I think you're wrong naming Sarah brookes, if you don't know who decisOni it was you shouldn't be naming people, think she gets a very bad press , she actually loves this club and cares deeply about it, where other people who work for fulham it's just a job to them, think it's a good idea to help Martin and ken out by putting links and spreading the word, hopfully between us fans we can try and keep a sense of a family club
We have to be careful not to jump to the wrong conclusion not knowing any of the details and facts. However on the face of it it is extremely disappointing. Looking at it from the clubs position, which I am not saying is correct, many of these books are about our history and the so called golden years which in truth were in the main anything but golden except to us older members. The marketing side of the club is now focused on the last 10 years, the premier league and the, in general, much younger fanbase and so they probably see very limited appeal/demand for these books.
As someone has already pointed out Ashwater will probably make more money selling their books direct to the public through the various means. And before anyone shouts I have virtually all of the books published and Ken Coton's Fulham photos is my favourite - brilliant brilliant piece of work.
Quote
"After 364 days of negotiation, after 19 years of Fulham books, after 17 books about our favourite club, and after over 100 years of supporting the club by Ken and Martin, Ashwater Press has been told by Fulham FC that they have 'failed' in their attempt to become a 'licensed partner' for supplying books, as others offered a better 'all-round package'. (Whatever that means.) So currently, no Fulham books from Ashwater, no support from Fulham, nothing".
all-round package = more money to Fulham than supplier?
It won't be Sarah, certainly. There's a head of retail who has his remit and presumably his margins. The Ashwater books are a priceless resource for Fulham fans and it's upsetting to learn that the club aren't interested in supporting this. That said, it's my understanding that the club's retail margins are not unusual and (playing devil's advocate) perhaps the extremely high production values associated with the books do make it hard to keep costs down and therefore make Ashwater a worthwhile margin. Again, it's a huge shame that such considerations outweigh others - there should be an Ashwater Corner in the shop! - but I suspect this is what might be happening. The tragedy is that the amounts being negotiated over probably work out as about two days of David Elm's employment. Football, eh?
I can quite safely say that I'm utterly disgusted by this news. Anything that I can do to support Ashwater Press and lobby the club to rescind their decision will be done.
How they can turn away so many years of support and fabulous books is beyond me. The club will be contracting new titles out to shysters and neutral journos instead of getting the true supporters to do the job for love more than money.
What a load of balls.
...I take SG's point about the last 10 years being of more interest to the younger generation and so would have presumably more sales - but the flaw in this is that the younger generation don't buy as many books, everything is electronic and Kindles etc.,
It IS the late twenties to seventies fan who will buy Fulham books (or have them bought for them)and appreciate the history of the Fulham Football Club.
The club had been bleeding Ashwaters profits by wanting such a high cut that there was little incentive to sell through the club, despite this they have negotiated and lost. Whoever wins the contract will produce - probably through Breedon as a publisher bland third party / corporate style publications. They can keep them.
Forget your history and forget your soul...
Amen to that Mr LBNo11.
Fulham shooting itself in the foot again
It feels by extension a kick in the teeth to all of us of a certain age. At any rate reminds us we are on the way out and increasingly marginal (though as well complain that it gets cold in winter). Boo anyway.
The move does seem particularly ironic at a time when the official website is taking everyone down memory lane with those history features. Do they want `legacy' or do they not?
What's missing of course is the club not having any concept of pleasing the supporters merely considering instead the bottom line of profits but that is now the way of the world.
Ashwater's potential buyers though will almost exclusively be the people who read the message boards and TOOFIF and that's where they should be directing their energies. Selling direct to fans maximises their profits.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on May 27, 2011, 11:23:02 AM
What's missing of course is the club not having any concept of pleasing the supporters merely considering instead the bottom line of profits but that is now the way of the world.
Ashwater's potential buyers though will almost exclusively be the people who read the message boards and TOOFIF and that's where they should be directing their energies. Selling direct to fans maximises their profits.
You only have to look at some of the tat they have and have had in the shop, also making anything in blue for a Fulham fan speaks volumes of how out of touch they are. There must be a way to galvanise support for Ashworth?
...Ashwater Press publications need an outlet, pure and simple, all the major players in the high street want a big cut too, especially as Fulham is not as marketable compared to the usual suspects, which makes the clubs' decision even more strange as they are not helping to spread the word.
Even if Fulham FC reduced their margins and sold the publications as (relatively) lost leaders, they would draw in the fans ('Potential Sales Target Units' for those at FFC) to buy other products.
As Tony says, the thing to do is not buy their merchandise, food, programmes, drinks etc., until they see sense, but the club knows that by the time the new season starts people will have forgotten this and the punters will blindly carry on as before.
BTW, I have not bought a "Matchday Magazine" in two seasons and have not missed it or all the adverts at all, and have probably saved myself £126.00 in that time...
Southfield White - you are quite correct to advise I should not have mentioned Sarah's name. I did caveat it with "or whoever", but nevertheless my apologies to Sarah.
It does not however of course change the underlying change where we are now simply consumers rather than supporters, in many cases of very long standing. I've been to over 1200 games and am a beginner compared with many I could name.
I've toyed with the stopping of getting programmes and think this is the final straw. Shame as I have all the homes for 50 years.
Quote from: LBNo11 on May 27, 2011, 12:46:59 PM
...Ashwater Press publications need an outlet, pure and simple, all the major players in the high street want a big cut too, especially as Fulham is not as marketable compared to the usual suspects, which makes the clubs' decision even more strange as they are not helping to spread the word.
Even if Fulham FC reduced their margins and sold the publications as (relatively) lost leaders, they would draw in the fans ('Potential Sales Target Units' for those at FFC) to buy other products.
As Tony says, the thing to do is not buy their merchandise, food, programmes, drinks etc., until they see sense, but the club knows that by the time the new season starts people will have forgotten this and the punters will blindly carry on as before.
BTW, I have not bought a "Matchday Magazine" in two seasons and have not missed it or all the adverts at all, and have probably saved myself £126.00 in that time...
Same here Ed ,the price is very high for the content. as with super mitch we have an extensive collection but it stopped at 2009.
Quote from: epsomraver on May 27, 2011, 12:59:25 PM
Quote from: LBNo11 on May 27, 2011, 12:46:59 PM
...Ashwater Press publications need an outlet, pure and simple, all the major players in the high street want a big cut too, especially as Fulham is not as marketable compared to the usual suspects, which makes the clubs' decision even more strange as they are not helping to spread the word.
Even if Fulham FC reduced their margins and sold the publications as (relatively) lost leaders, they would draw in the fans ('Potential Sales Target Units' for those at FFC) to buy other products.
As Tony says, the thing to do is not buy their merchandise, food, programmes, drinks etc., until they see sense, but the club knows that by the time the new season starts people will have forgotten this and the punters will blindly carry on as before.
BTW, I have not bought a "Matchday Magazine" in two seasons and have not missed it or all the adverts at all, and have probably saved myself £126.00 in that time...
Same here Ed ,the price is very high for the content. as with super mitch we have an extensive collection but it stopped at 2009.
Yep, me too. It's just too big nowadays anyway and all the information is available on the internet. I still get one or two towards the end of the season so I have a complete record of scorers, crowds etc.
Quote from: Scrumpy on May 27, 2011, 01:07:13 PM
Yep, me too. It's just too big nowadays anyway and all the information is available on the internet. I still get one or two towards the end of the season so I have a complete record of scorers, crowds etc.
Add me to that for all those reasons. Space has run out, short of jettisoning old programmes, but could never do that as the photos were so good -- courtesy of that chap in the hat who is now persona non grata.
Quote from: b+w geezer on May 27, 2011, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Scrumpy on May 27, 2011, 01:07:13 PM
Yep, me too. It's just too big nowadays anyway and all the information is available on the internet. I still get one or two towards the end of the season so I have a complete record of scorers, crowds etc.
Add me to that for all those reasons. Space has run out, short of jettisoning old programmes, but could never do that as the photos were so good -- courtesy of that chap in the hat who is now persona non grata.
And you can add me to that list for this season just gone. God we are a load of miserable old gits especially as the club is thriving compared to the old days. I think (actually I know) that I would rather have the current situation compared to Scunthorpe at home with 2,136 of us, knowing almost every soul there and all those running the club at that time. The world of business and football has changed and though we can moan and shout there is little we can do - I too have saved £66.50 this season through not buying a programme. I dont suppose that the club are too worried about that !
LB - I dont think the Ashwater Press books are aimed at people in their twenties and thirties. I would think that the target audience is much older and thus of limited interest to many of those that now comprise the average attendance at the Cottage
About 18 months ago (?) they sent out fliers asking what books we'd be interested in and whether we'd be willing to sign up in advance. I answered but can't remember what I said and haven't heard since.
I suspect that for the type of books they publish, limited editions by prior order makes sense. I'd happily sign up for further instalments of Cottage Chronicles and Tales from the Riverbank.
It leaves a nasty taste that the club won't stock their product but I can't see many casual sales and direct selling increases profit margins significantly.
...I'm not in possession of the full facts to counter what you say SG, so you may be right, I just think that even newer and younger fans are - or would be interested in what has gone before - IF they could purchase it easily, i.e. from the club shops.
Tony they were going to consider books on 40 years of Fulham FC in colour, 'Our Ivor', SuperMacs Marvels, The Keegan team amongst many other, including the excellent Tales From The Riverbank III & IV, and 50 years of Fulham 1960 - 2010.
Still enough there to be of interest - even to the younger / newer fans - and written by real Fulham fans, with real passion and love for their club...
Quote from: LBNo11 on May 26, 2011, 11:02:07 PM
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26th May 2011
http://www.ken.coton.btinternet.co.uk/ (http://www.ken.coton.btinternet.co.uk/)
What do Cheryl Cole and Ashwater Press have in common?
Answer: They've both been dumped this week!
- Cheryl by a tv programme; Ashwater by Fulham FC.
"After 364 days of negotiation, after 19 years of Fulham books, after 17 books about our favourite club, and after over 100 years of supporting the club by Ken and Martin, Ashwater Press has been told by Fulham FC that they have 'failed' in their attempt to become a 'licensed partner' for supplying books, as others offered a better 'all-round package'. (Whatever that means.) So currently, no Fulham books from Ashwater, no support from Fulham, nothing".
... :035: What an absolute disgrace, Ashwater Press have published most books about Fulham, among their many authors was the recently deceased Peter Thomson and Alex Ferguson aka "The Traveller". Fulham FC have had an ongoing 'feud' with Ken Coton and Martin Plumb even over selling the famous book Johnny Haynes "The Maestro".
Fulham FC, hang your sorry heads in shame :014:, this is disgraceful treatment of loyal and talented fans who love the club...
I always smile as I walk past that book shop next to the eight bells that has 'the maestro' in the window. By all accounts the man who owns the shop is a bit of a hero.
getting books and mags into shops is a nightmare, I didn't know until recently that WH smith charge up to £ 4 k for three months to allow a publisher to put their goods on their shelves for Smiths to sell plus the profit Smiths get from the sales, the little man is squeezed out, this may apply to Ashworth, I am sure that the club gave them some strange stipulations regarding sales and numbers.
why not advertise on here ?
...we do in a way, I always put up info on new books - the problem is the actual distribution, packing, shipping all adds to costs, and Ken and Martin cannot sit at home all day waiting on the off chance someone will buy a book. They need outlets...
To Lbno11 and all, i have not been around this club as long as a lot of you, only about 25 years, i can remember only few years back when we were that close to going out of business. I know Ken Coton and Ashwater have been great servants and have given supporters history, but there does come a time when any business has to look at the bottom line to survive, i work in the national health and it is frightening what is happening, i used to deal with a small book company who supplied us with medical journals, but their margins were so great it was just not economic sense to continue with them, we now get the same publications and to be honest a much quicker turn around time for half of what they were charging. I would like to but i cannot just blame FFC because i do not know all the facts, and in this day and age they have to look at the bigger picture and go for the deal that is best for the club.
You all feel very agrieved over this and probably have a right to, but as always someone somewhere will suffer, after i worked for 8 years at our wonderfull FFC then i got kicked out not because of work but purely economics.
I do not wish to upset or annoy anyone with these comments and if i do then i offer my sincere apologies.
I think it is more a question of value and quality. I don't think in todays world people will go to the length of certain people like Ken Coton to capture "the moment" the way it is done in his books.
I believe people will actually pay a premium for quality as they perceive it as value. I know I will (within reason) People will not spend money on thrash (like matchday programmes which now a days are simply filled with utter tosh of ads). So Fulham the club (and the shop) will end up wasting shelve space on items the target group they are aiming to serve (The fan) will not buy because people will not waste a penny on crap. Hell, we just are trying to dig ourselves out of a recession in case people missed it. Hence, if the Fulham objective is to generate revenue and sell books, they will surely fail and I for one will not buy a single piece from them.
It is a case of penny wise and pound foolish, which seems to happen more and more at our club.
Loyalty should not be a one-way street
