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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: YoungsBitter on February 04, 2014, 12:04:07 AM

Title: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: YoungsBitter on February 04, 2014, 12:04:07 AM
Rene Meulensteen is a conundrum. Another great interview with Sarah Brookes ahead of Sheff Utd game. However I find it strange that for all his excellent candor, sense and statements in interviews we struggle so obviously to be effective.
Originally when he first came to help out Jol nothing happened until after Jol went. Thats says the training ground stuff only gets you so far if Jol was calling the shots on selection and tactics. Then Jol gets fired and we suddenly change, selection was aggressive we played and lost against Spurs without Hangeland, conceding one after a total fluke with deflections and off side Defoe interfering with Stek's view and finally one very good goal from Holtby - not shut down by Parker and Sidwell ( sound familiar?) . We won against Villa again with RM's wide attacking diamond in midfield. We lost against Everton but conceded 3 goals in last 10 minutes having been well in it at 1-1. Worryingly that day he seemed to lose his way late on with subs, Duff came on and we stopped pressing the wings, Sidwell and Parker once again in middle as Karag subbed. We then lose against Citeh having been able to draw back to 2-2 until 78th minute, again late sub of taking off Karag and Dejegah for Bent and Kasami means no width or attacking thrust and the tired legs of Sidwell and Parker can't keep up.
The pattern had been set. Then in comes the brain trust, Wilkins and Curbs. RM is now encouraged to be more conservative as if the problem is our defense, not our inability to put goals in and defend on the ball. We go narrow again - although that never worked under Jol and still does not to this day. Also worryingly we started with their arrival chopping and changing the selection each game so the pattern disappears. Some of it was managing the fixture congestion around FA Cup etc but then we see him trying to fit an obviously unfit slow Dempsey in and Damien Duff is his new best buddy. Sunderland at home was a precursor to last Saturday's capitulation against Saints. The games over the same period that we have played well feature as a contrast Kaca and Dejegah - Norwich in the cup when we win 3-0 and Arsenal who we narrowly lose to 2-0.
So I am concerned that he is a smart guy, knows football but he himself is lacking the confidence to stick to his guns. He started great other than some weak late subs but he seems to be neither committing to attacking pressure nor defensive rigor, so we end up being not good enough defensively and unable to pressure teams with an attacking threat, neither fish nor fowl. If he has a vision for how we can play and win games he should stick with it. Lambert did it at Villa, Poccitino has done it at Saints. You play a certain way, everyone knows what their role is, yes you lose games but you get better and then you start to win.
I worry that his lack of certainty that manifested itself with earlier poor subs is now being amplified by the brain trust. The most worrying thing about the video was the talking about the need to defend more rigidly with no fullbacks bombing forward. That thinking will not allow us to win games. We got caught out on Saturday to 3 break away goals, Hangeland at fault for the last one, Dempsey and Riether for the 2nd killer goal. If we had put away chances in the first half they would not have happened. Having the fullbacks stay deep probably walks us into the middle diamond now once again being narrow which is a) how we played under Jol and got repeatedly spanked and b) a waste of Holtby. I would argue if we had a more mobile mid field center pairing than Sidders and Parker we would be able to allow the wing back attacks and stretch our opponents.
I am going to get increasingly worried and resigned to relegation if that is our central pairing against Man U. We keep trying the same thing and it does not work.
So is the situation that RM wants to play aggressive attacking football which pressures the opposition, uses our width to stretch the opposing team and all he has been missing is the quality creative players in the middle who can actually run longer than 65 minutes and someone to put the goals away? If so then the purchases that Khan paid for will be exactly what is needed to right the ship.
If however Rene has been showing he does not have the courage of his convictions, is increasingly lost, and still really does not know what his best 11 is; if as in the Sheff Utd preview video he thinks we need to be defensive and messrs Wilkins and Curbishley are whispering the same in his ear, then we will continue to see Parker start alongside Sidwell with an ever rotating cast of hopefuls around them. If that is the case then sorry the ship is sinking fast and its a good job most of the new people are on loans or are easy to sell on come the summer.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: The Rock on February 04, 2014, 12:24:13 AM
Read every word of your post. To his and Jol's defence, we have simply spent the least and you get what you pay for. Sir Alex and/or Pulis would have us in 18th instead.

I like RM. I think he's pretty smart. Unlike when Roy was here, we don't have the kind of players who know what their role is. Richardson is a league one left winger playing LB in the Premier league because that's our only option. How would you solve that?

We did great this window, but we need competition for "places". The first team picks itself and it's not that great. So here we are. Hopeful of our new signings.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: YoungsBitter on February 04, 2014, 12:30:20 AM
The glaring omission on the close of the transfer window was Left Back. I was equally happy overall with the signings.
I agree you can only do the best with what tools you have at hand but my concern is that RM did well at first and since Curbishley and Wilkins have appeared he does not seem to know who his best players are, not what his shape and approach should be. He also concern me about his ability to make good in game adjustments - if the answer is bringing on Bent in the 75th minute I have no idea what the question was.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: DUKE on February 04, 2014, 12:31:04 AM
That a very good assessment unfortunately I don't think we will ever know if that is Rene's lack of conviction and authority or that he realized that we don't have enough energy in our team to press ant attack for full 90 min. So he went back to more conservative ways which seems to work only for 45 min.This is smthg that is baffling a lot of pundits and not just us. We have some good players and we playing some good football but is just not happening. So the board tried to address the problem with our new signings.Lets see what happens.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Moussa Dembele the 3rd on February 04, 2014, 12:35:26 AM
Great, great post.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Lighthouse on February 04, 2014, 12:42:04 AM
The problem we have is that our squad (without our new signings) is weaker than it was before. We seemed to be set up very much like a side that was scared. We simply keep playing Bent who misses more often than not and doesn't work for 90 minutes.

We need a forward and wide men to offer some pace. I have said the same thing over and over again. Rene is the right man for the job. But he need to have all the pieces in the jigsaw.

The cup game should be fun as he has less chance of resting players as those that played before in central defence have moved on. We need to go forward in a controlled way. The Cup game should set us up as we would play a top side. Even if we are not playing with the same team.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: YoungsBitter on February 04, 2014, 12:46:01 AM
I agree the Cup game presents a unique challenge - we want to win, we can't use the new players and we have obviously lost the option to use those that left. I hope he goes with some youth as Bent is not the answer going forward if Mitroglou gets injured, whether its Dembele or Tankovic one of them must play tomorrow. Ironically I think we will see Kaca, Dejegah and Kasami all start tomorrow which I argue for against Man Utd on Saturday.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: JDH101 on February 04, 2014, 01:19:51 AM
A very good post. I agree with most, if not all of it. Something changed when Wilkins arrived and I don't like it. And it bugs the crap out of me that he doesn't leave RM's side on the touchline. Give the man some damn space to think for himself!

Our obvious problems are:
No left back.
Hangerland is still struggling to get up to the Hangerland of old.
Parker and Sidwell in the middle, week after week.

Our not so obvious problem is that in my opinion, our wide players are just not up to it at this level. They are lightweight and rarely play the right pass / cross. Teams know that we are not that much of a threat on the counter and so they press us. Southampton were parked in our half for large periods of the game. We end up knocking it long via hangerland and then the ball just comes straight back. Hopefully Holtby and the Greek lad can help us on the counter, but I'm going in to every game very low on confidence.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Logicalman on February 04, 2014, 03:48:19 AM


.. in answer to the title, Yes, I do believe he does, and I still keep faith in him.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Fulham1959 on February 04, 2014, 04:28:19 AM
A very good post, YB, but very hard to read.

Try leaving a clear line after each paragraph !
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Slaphead in Qatar on February 04, 2014, 05:42:37 AM
Its tough to ask someone with no experience as head coach in a major league to come into the heat of a pl relegation battle. I like him but I think we should have gone for pulis, we need points not pretty football right now.

Also I am very angry with wilkins appointment. Rene was doing better before wilkins and curbs came in.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: YoungsBitter on February 04, 2014, 07:10:16 AM
A very good post, YB, but very hard to read.

Try leaving a clear line after each paragraph !
Sorry but I think that's your browser, I am reading this on tablet now and it has paragraph spacing, no excuses for crap grammar or meandering prose but paragraphs do have spacing ;)



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Baszab on February 04, 2014, 09:10:00 AM
Good argument - have you seen the article in the Telegraph today ? Problem is - defence is poor - RM seems to be quite attack minded - it nearly worked against Spurs but the old problem of not covering wide areas /running out of steam/ letting opposition score from shots outside the area became apparent - it could be that RM needs the other two to give him defensive coaching to complement his attacking tactics -- whatever the plan is, it's not working yet
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: FFC1987 on February 04, 2014, 09:57:07 AM
I think we need to let the signings and trainings in teh next few weeks takes it toll then we can condemn Rene. My personal feelings is, I like him. Honest and likeable character and says it how it is. I think the club brought right in case we go down (apart from Mitroglou, this surprised me). I hope he's here for the long run. If the rumours of him being replaced by Curbs is true, I won't be impressed.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Still believe on February 04, 2014, 10:29:44 PM
...no he does not
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: GrahamG on February 04, 2014, 10:31:28 PM
Too many words.....the answer is NO
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Jims Dentist on February 04, 2014, 11:08:06 PM
When your trying to consentrate, see what is happening and formulate solutions, it is nigh impossible when you have another person constantly in your ear giving their view.

If he recognises that this is a problem, then it is time for  Rene to man up and remove it.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: hn4fulham on February 04, 2014, 11:10:49 PM
I sure hope the club gives him a chance to try his hand at this relegation battle. Letting him go now would yield us no better. The mess that Jol's created is not something you can deal with in a matter of weeks. The window just closed and we've also seen curb and wilkins added recently.  There's been ALOT of changes in addition to all the mess that needed sorting.

The way I see it, every single game will be handled as a learning experience for the team and a building exercise.  This team needs to re-learn ALOT and also have ALOT of new learning to do quickly.  Obviously, we don't have that many games left but I personally expect at least the next few games as games to figure out the right mix and getting the players in synch.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Julius Geezer on February 04, 2014, 11:20:44 PM
Yes I believe he does.

He is certainly worth persevering with - I want to see Rat Wilkins out, and Curbishley can join him.

If we get a result Sunday you won't see one of these threads!
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: Lighthouse on February 04, 2014, 11:25:28 PM
The problem we have is that our squad (without our new signings) is weaker than it was before. We seemed to be set up very much like a side that was scared. We simply keep playing Bent who misses more often than not and doesn't work for 90 minutes.

We need a forward and wide men to offer some pace. I have said the same thing over and over again. Rene is the right man for the job. But he need to have all the pieces in the jigsaw.

The cup game should be fun as he has less chance of resting players as those that played before in central defence have moved on. We need to go forward in a controlled way. The Cup game should set us up as we would play a top side. Even if we are not playing with the same team.

I agree with some of what you say but clearly Rene or whoever is in charge tonight got so many things wrong with the set up of the team to taking off our only forward. Time you admitted Rene is a coach but no tactical manager.
Title: Re: Does Rene have the necessary skills to do the job of keeping us up?
Post by: jarv on February 04, 2014, 11:31:11 PM
Does he have the skills, yes. Does he have the personnel, no. The defence isn't just poor, it is Sunday league. Also, too many cooks on the touchline.
Honestly, I don't think anyone can come in now and wave a magic wand. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. 065.gif