"Whatever it takes" is what was said by our current owner.
Fact or not, it was definitely quoted, I see/read it, so have others, yet I feel we're being lied to once again.
I understand that FFP has to be taken into consideration, but to be honest, most of the ambitious sides in the Championship who want promotion, are willing to splash the cash. Even Brighton are willing to spend 6M on Alex Pritchard, who I think will be an outstanding buy at this level.
Unlike others, I'm finished supporting our current owner, who doesn't show any ambition towards FFC, yet only ups the tempo with false statements around about the time of season ticket sales. We all know that his firstand only love is the Jags, and I'm really baffled as to why he even owns us.
Once again, we're scouting the market for free transfers, bargain bucket players, and are penny pinching over potential targets.
Yet again, no doubt I'll get jumped on by the 'facts & Stats' gang for these comments, but I see no evidence so far of Shad Kahn doing 'Whatever it takes'.
4 days until Newcastle, a team that is still 3/4 players short of where it should be, no real investment made, and another ongoing saga surrounding Ross McCormack.
Some things will never change - nor will Shad Kahn.
(https://www.destructoid.com/elephant//ul/4189-468x-thumbsdown.jpg)
People will defend the club based on FFP and what not, but the situation is, shahid khan has taken us to our lowest point for over a decade and has shown no intention of trying to repair the situation.
The cherry on top would be selling our best player without replacing him/having time to replace him.
We were promised that he would do whatever it takes to get us back to the premiership, so far he hasn't even bothered to try.
The only bit of intent we've shown over the last three years was the signing of McCormack.
Hard to really comment without knowing the exact in's and out's of what we can spend on players and wages without getting in to trouble. I imagine the limit we can spend is pretty low as isn't it linked to income and our attendances have slowly dropped each season. I'd guess we can probably spend about 10m max so not sure what people were expecting? The days of spending 5+ mil on a player are long gone. This is the real world of the Championship, free's, clever loans and the odd 2-3m player. Most clubs who have been finishing higher up the league than us operate on these type of budgets.
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
Quote from: Horsfield_No9 on August 02, 2016, 03:27:52 PM
Hard to really comment without knowing the exact in's and out's of what we can spend on players and wages without getting in to trouble. I imagine the limit we can spend is pretty low as isn't it linked to income and our attendances have slowly dropped each season. I'd guess we can probably spend about 10m max so not sure what people were expecting? The days of spending 5+ mil on a player are long gone. This is the real world of the Championship, free's, clever loans and the odd 2-3m player. Most clubs who have been finishing higher up the league than us operate on these type of budgets.
we might not be spending 5 mil on players, but other championship clubs are. the real world of the championship is that you have to buy your way out if the last few seasons are anything to go on
We have never been very successful with expensive signings other than Ross. So it really is a case of wait and see. But the frustration is understandable and the problem is we know the owner says things but has no real idea what is going on. His ownership has been riddled with disaster after disaster. But there is a difference between lies and ignorance. Our owner, while having the money relies on the people at the club to run things in the best way they see fit. So his ignorance in picking the right people as opposed to lies may be nearer the point.
What is your issue that he said it or does not appear to be following up on it.
what would you want him to say? His job as owner is to encourage fans to keep spending money and supporting the club (this is a business after all) "whatever it takes" obviously means to us that he will spend money and buy the players we need to get promoted but we have no idea what business we are trying to do and maybe getting knocked back. We did almost get relegated twice from this league so maybe players don't want to sign here. If he goes all in and spends silly money and we don't get promoted we get hit with sanctions (Newcastle don't need to worry about this as they are generating sales)
As for Brighton what have they signed in the last few years? They finished 3rd last year and obviously want to kick on and I imagine they got more money than is for finishing 3rd.
Finally we don't know if McCormack is off its all paper talk at the moment. This is just another doom and gloom post and I understand the frustration but we are not a premier league club anymore we are on current form a mid to bottom championship club. We need to accept it and "whatever it takes" has to be taken in this context.
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I see the new indoor training hall being built. That doesn't come cheap. I would,rather see training facilities being built over a not needed right now stadium extension.
Quote from: kempkong on August 02, 2016, 03:48:34 PM
What is your issue that he said it or does not appear to be following up on it.
what would you want him to say? His job as owner is to encourage fans to keep spending money and supporting the club (this is a business after all) "whatever it takes" obviously means to us that he will spend money and buy the players we need to get promoted but we have no idea what business we are trying to do and maybe getting knocked back. We did almost get relegated twice from this league so maybe players don't want to sign here. If he goes all in and spends silly money and we don't get promoted we get hit with sanctions (Newcastle don't need to worry about this as they are generating sales)
As for Brighton what have they signed in the last few years? They finished 3rd last year and obviously want to kick on and I imagine they got more money than is for finishing 3rd.
Finally we don't know if McCormack is off its all paper talk at the moment. This is just another doom and gloom post and I understand the frustration but we are not a premier league club anymore we are on current form a mid to bottom championship club. We need to accept it and "whatever it takes" has to be taken in this context.
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What a ridiculous post !
Whatever it takes .. may include substantial investment in players ... never really worked for QPR though. Let's not forget that Bournemouth in the Championship, the best side by a country mile that season, including Watford, (imho) had cost at most £6.3 million and had a wage bill of £17 million at the end of that season.
Yes, we need good players, but we need more than that. We need to be greater than the sum of our parts. Fulham for me has been a side that has performed below the level that the quality of the playing staff suggests. I hope that SJ is building a team that will work as a team, and will go on to deliver a substantial improvement in our results this season. Need to see the team in real action to deliver a verdict, but I am full of hope.
Quote from: Whitesideup on August 02, 2016, 04:59:35 PM
Whatever it takes .. may include substantial investment in players ... never really worked for QPR though. Let's not forget that Bournemouth in the Championship, the best side by a country mile that season, including Watford, (imho) had cost at most £6.3 million and had a wage bill of £17 million at the end of that season.
Yes, we need good players, but we need more than that. We need to be greater than the sum of our parts. Fulham for me has been a side that has performed below the level that the quality of the playing staff suggests. I hope that SJ is building a team that will work as a team, and will go on to deliver a substantial improvement in our results this season. Need to see the team in real action to deliver a verdict, but I am full of hope.
not sure about that, im sure i read bournmouth broke ffp rules when they went up
Quote from: Wearethewhites on August 02, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
"Whatever it takes" is what was said by our current owner.
Fact or not, it was definitely quoted, I see/read it, so have others, yet I feel we're being lied to once again.
I understand that FFP has to be taken into consideration, but to be honest, most of the ambitious sides in the Championship who want promotion, are willing to splash the cash. Even Brighton are willing to spend 6M on Alex Pritchard, who I think will be an outstanding buy at this level.
Unlike others, I'm finished supporting our current owner, who doesn't show any ambition towards FFC, yet only ups the tempo with false statements around about the time of season ticket sales. We all know that his firstand only love is the Jags, and I'm really baffled as to why he even owns us.
Once again, we're scouting the market for free transfers, bargain bucket players, and are penny pinching over potential targets.
Yet again, no doubt I'll get jumped on by the 'facts & Stats' gang for these comments, but I see no evidence so far of Shad Kahn doing 'Whatever it takes'.
4 days until Newcastle, a team that is still 3/4 players short of where it should be, no real investment made, and another ongoing saga surrounding Ross McCormack.
Some things will never change - nor will Shad Kahn.
(https://www.destructoid.com/elephant//ul/4189-468x-thumbsdown.jpg)
:dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse: :dead horse:
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 04:57:52 PM
Quote from: kempkong on August 02, 2016, 03:48:34 PM
What is your issue that he said it or does not appear to be following up on it.
what would you want him to say? His job as owner is to encourage fans to keep spending money and supporting the club (this is a business after all) "whatever it takes" obviously means to us that he will spend money and buy the players we need to get promoted but we have no idea what business we are trying to do and maybe getting knocked back. We did almost get relegated twice from this league so maybe players don't want to sign here. If he goes all in and spends silly money and we don't get promoted we get hit with sanctions (Newcastle don't need to worry about this as they are generating sales)
As for Brighton what have they signed in the last few years? They finished 3rd last year and obviously want to kick on and I imagine they got more money than is for finishing 3rd.
Finally we don't know if McCormack is off its all paper talk at the moment. This is just another doom and gloom post and I understand the frustration but we are not a premier league club anymore we are on current form a mid to bottom championship club. We need to accept it and "whatever it takes" has to be taken in this context.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What a ridiculous post !
Good constructive criticism.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 04:57:52 PM
Quote from: kempkong on August 02, 2016, 03:48:34 PM
What is your issue that he said it or does not appear to be following up on it.
what would you want him to say? His job as owner is to encourage fans to keep spending money and supporting the club (this is a business after all) "whatever it takes" obviously means to us that he will spend money and buy the players we need to get promoted but we have no idea what business we are trying to do and maybe getting knocked back. We did almost get relegated twice from this league so maybe players don't want to sign here. If he goes all in and spends silly money and we don't get promoted we get hit with sanctions (Newcastle don't need to worry about this as they are generating sales)
As for Brighton what have they signed in the last few years? They finished 3rd last year and obviously want to kick on and I imagine they got more money than is for finishing 3rd.
Finally we don't know if McCormack is off its all paper talk at the moment. This is just another doom and gloom post and I understand the frustration but we are not a premier league club anymore we are on current form a mid to bottom championship club. We need to accept it and "whatever it takes" has to be taken in this context.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What a ridiculous post !
As opposed to the OPs? Im not taking sides on this one, however both were written out well and provided an argument and counter argument.
Quote from: Patrick on August 02, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
could not agree more 10 games is when I'll start pointing fingers if needs be, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: Patrick on August 02, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
could not agree more 10 games is when I'll start pointing fingers if needs be, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
yes, ive been impressed with acquisitions so far. ross money might just bring in some real quality
Quote from: fulhamben on August 02, 2016, 05:12:52 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: Patrick on August 02, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
could not agree more 10 games is when I'll start pointing fingers if needs be, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
yes, ive been impressed with acquisitions so far. ross money might just bring in some real quality
I hope we use the ross money on mounie and few others
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:14:29 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on August 02, 2016, 05:12:52 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: Patrick on August 02, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
could not agree more 10 games is when I'll start pointing fingers if needs be, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
yes, ive been impressed with acquisitions so far. ross money might just bring in some real quality
I hope we use the ross money on mounie and few others
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
cant say ive ever seen him play. but if he looks as good as alyite alunko and odoi do then we cant go far wrong
Quote from: fulhamben on August 02, 2016, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:14:29 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on August 02, 2016, 05:12:52 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: Patrick on August 02, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
could not agree more 10 games is when I'll start pointing fingers if needs be, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
yes, ive been impressed with acquisitions so far. ross money might just bring in some real quality
I hope we use the ross money on mounie and few others
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
cant say ive ever seen him play. but if he looks as good as alyite alunko and odoi do then we cant go far wrong
if he is half as good as his YouTube clip he will be a very good addition
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:19:08 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on August 02, 2016, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:14:29 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on August 02, 2016, 05:12:52 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: Patrick on August 02, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
could not agree more 10 games is when I'll start pointing fingers if needs be, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
yes, ive been impressed with acquisitions so far. ross money might just bring in some real quality
I hope we use the ross money on mounie and few others
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
cant say ive ever seen him play. but if he looks as good as alyite alunko and odoi do then we cant go far wrong
if he is half as good as his YouTube clip he will be a very good addition
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
are we even linked to him?
Quote from: fulhamben on August 02, 2016, 05:20:59 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:19:08 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on August 02, 2016, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:14:29 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on August 02, 2016, 05:12:52 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: Patrick on August 02, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
could not agree more 10 games is when I'll start pointing fingers if needs be, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
yes, ive been impressed with acquisitions so far. ross money might just bring in some real quality
I hope we use the ross money on mounie and few others
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
cant say ive ever seen him play. but if he looks as good as alyite alunko and odoi do then we cant go far wrong
if he is half as good as his YouTube clip he will be a very good addition
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
are we even linked to him?
yes, if you believe the rumors
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I share the frustartion of the Op as i am sure many others also do. The `Grenn light `and ´whatever it takes` are big statements and need to backed up by big actions . There has been no sign of real intent although slavisa clearly has agood eye for a player with the signings we have made. As yet he hasnt been given the full backing that he clearly wants ,and Mr Khan has stated that he thinks he is is worth.
Th Macormack thing is another issue and he has carried on in the same way at his last 4 clubs , so although I like him as a player,I will be glad to see the back of him and feel the same amount of loyalty towards him that he has shown the club. I just feel as though he is taking the micky and should be sold, but not because we are just going to cash in,but because the uncetainty of his situation has now become a joke.. The real crunch is going to come if all the money from a potential sale is not immediately reinvested .Then Khan totally loses my faith too.
Its still abit too early to totally agree with you OP,but I am not far off feeling the same.
We want action !
We haven't been lied too
The transfer window is still open
AFTER it closes will be the time to comment
Quote from: Wearethewhites on August 02, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
"Whatever it takes" is what was said by our current owner.
Fact or not, it was definitely quoted, I see/read it, so have others, yet I feel we're being lied to once again.
I understand that FFP has to be taken into consideration, but to be honest, most of the ambitious sides in the Championship who want promotion, are willing to splash the cash. Even Brighton are willing to spend 6M on Alex Pritchard, who I think will be an outstanding buy at this level.
Unlike others, I'm finished supporting our current owner, who doesn't show any ambition towards FFC, yet only ups the tempo with false statements around about the time of season ticket sales. We all know that his firstand only love is the Jags, and I'm really baffled as to why he even owns us.
Once again, we're scouting the market for free transfers, bargain bucket players, and are penny pinching over potential targets.
Yet again, no doubt I'll get jumped on by the 'facts & Stats' gang for these comments, but I see no evidence so far of Shad Kahn doing 'Whatever it takes'.
4 days until Newcastle, a team that is still 3/4 players short of where it should be, no real investment made, and another ongoing saga surrounding Ross McCormack.
Some things will never change - nor will Shad Kahn.
(https://www.destructoid.com/elephant//ul/4189-468x-thumbsdown.jpg)
Did MAF lie when he said he was going to make us Manchester United of the south?
Quote from: alfie on August 02, 2016, 05:53:43 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on August 02, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
"Whatever it takes" is what was said by our current owner.
Fact or not, it was definitely quoted, I see/read it, so have others, yet I feel we're being lied to once again.
I understand that FFP has to be taken into consideration, but to be honest, most of the ambitious sides in the Championship who want promotion, are willing to splash the cash. Even Brighton are willing to spend 6M on Alex Pritchard, who I think will be an outstanding buy at this level.
Unlike others, I'm finished supporting our current owner, who doesn't show any ambition towards FFC, yet only ups the tempo with false statements around about the time of season ticket sales. We all know that his firstand only love is the Jags, and I'm really baffled as to why he even owns us.
Once again, we're scouting the market for free transfers, bargain bucket players, and are penny pinching over potential targets.
Yet again, no doubt I'll get jumped on by the 'facts & Stats' gang for these comments, but I see no evidence so far of Shad Kahn doing 'Whatever it takes'.
4 days until Newcastle, a team that is still 3/4 players short of where it should be, no real investment made, and another ongoing saga surrounding Ross McCormack.
Some things will never change - nor will Shad Kahn.
(https://www.destructoid.com/elephant//ul/4189-468x-thumbsdown.jpg)
Did MAF lie when he said he was going to make us Manchester United of the south?
Yes and 3 separate times he promised us a cottage expansion to 30 k
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 05:44:24 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on August 02, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
"Whatever it takes" is what was said by our current owner.
Fact or not, it was definitely quoted, I see/read it, so have others, yet I feel we're being lied to once again.
So the O.P. feels 'that we're being lied to once again'. As in here and now.
And yet the only reference he gives dates back some time - to the summer of 2014, I believe.
I understand that, to anyone who adjudges our Chairman's quote to be a lie, this will rankle every transfer window that we don't spend heavily. This, however, is not the same as 'being lied to again'. There is no new lie that is being told.
All the O.P. has done is re-heat yesterday's dinner.
Another of the 'stats & facts' gang. Bore off.
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 05:44:24 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on August 02, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
"Whatever it takes" is what was said by our current owner.
Fact or not, it was definitely quoted, I see/read it, so have others, yet I feel we're being lied to once again.
So the O.P. feels 'that we're being lied to once again'. As in here and now.
And yet the only reference he gives dates back some time - to the summer of 2014, I believe.
I understand that, to anyone who adjudges our Chairman's quote to be a lie, this will rankle every transfer window that we don't spend heavily. This, however, is not the same as 'being lied to again'. There is no new lie that is being told.
All the O.P. has done is re-heat yesterday's dinner.
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.
It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe.
There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts.
Quote from: Statto on August 02, 2016, 06:46:22 PM
reluctant to agree with anyone who says things like "bore off" when confronted with anything vaguely resembling reality or reason...
. . . and someone who does not like stats. :005:
Quote from: andersons11 on August 02, 2016, 05:04:03 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 04:57:52 PM
Quote from: kempkong on August 02, 2016, 03:48:34 PM
What is your issue that he said it or does not appear to be following up on it.
what would you want him to say? His job as owner is to encourage fans to keep spending money and supporting the club (this is a business after all) "whatever it takes" obviously means to us that he will spend money and buy the players we need to get promoted but we have no idea what business we are trying to do and maybe getting knocked back. We did almost get relegated twice from this league so maybe players don't want to sign here. If he goes all in and spends silly money and we don't get promoted we get hit with sanctions (Newcastle don't need to worry about this as they are generating sales)
As for Brighton what have they signed in the last few years? They finished 3rd last year and obviously want to kick on and I imagine they got more money than is for finishing 3rd.
Finally we don't know if McCormack is off its all paper talk at the moment. This is just another doom and gloom post and I understand the frustration but we are not a premier league club anymore we are on current form a mid to bottom championship club. We need to accept it and "whatever it takes" has to be taken in this context.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What a ridiculous post !
As opposed to the OPs? Im not taking sides on this one, however both were written out well and provided an argument and counter argument.
And there I was thinking it was a reasonable post
Quote from: alfie on August 02, 2016, 05:53:43 PM
Quote from: Wearethewhites on August 02, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
"Whatever it takes" is what was said by our current owner.
Fact or not, it was definitely quoted, I see/read it, so have others, yet I feel we're being lied to once again.
I understand that FFP has to be taken into consideration, but to be honest, most of the ambitious sides in the Championship who want promotion, are willing to splash the cash. Even Brighton are willing to spend 6M on Alex Pritchard, who I think will be an outstanding buy at this level.
Unlike others, I'm finished supporting our current owner, who doesn't show any ambition towards FFC, yet only ups the tempo with false statements around about the time of season ticket sales. We all know that his firstand only love is the Jags, and I'm really baffled as to why he even owns us.
Once again, we're scouting the market for free transfers, bargain bucket players, and are penny pinching over potential targets.
Yet again, no doubt I'll get jumped on by the 'facts & Stats' gang for these comments, but I see no evidence so far of Shad Kahn doing 'Whatever it takes'.
4 days until Newcastle, a team that is still 3/4 players short of where it should be, no real investment made, and another ongoing saga surrounding Ross McCormack.
Some things will never change - nor will Shad Kahn.
(https://www.destructoid.com/elephant//ul/4189-468x-thumbsdown.jpg)
Did MAF lie when he said he was going to make us Manchester United of the south?
MAF brought us up to the Premier League and facilitated our magical zenith, the Europa league final. Khan has got us consistently worse in his 3 year tenure.
Whenever Khan talks about us I think of the words 'sustainability' and 'mediocrity'. Sustainability often does not equate to success in football, and you see him spoiling the Jaguars over in the states. He seems to have no interest in our sport, let alone our club and doesn't seem serious about improving us. If that's the case then why on earth did he bother buying us? I'm sorry for all those who are willing to wait until the end of the transfer window, and I will happily eat my words if I'm proven wrong but I've been waiting 3 years for him to deliver on his promises and I'm still waiting. People can't still be saying that he has been let down by his advisers, the saying 'fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me' comes to mind - he's not an idiot, he's a billionaire for a reason! Even acting within FFP we should still have quite a sum to deal with given the sales of Stekelenberg, Mitroglou, Hyndman and the rest yet we always seem to cheap out. No idea where the Roberts and Ruiz money went. While usually I wouldn't be against selling Ross for £12-15m given his age I DO NOT trust the club and owner to reinvest the money. It is very clear by the manager's constant reference to needing more ambition and not having a complete squad yet that he isn't being given the budget that he feels he needs to create a squad capable of achieving the aim of promotion.
I don't mind which league we're in because somehow we always manage to be entertaining, even during the bad years, but in recent years the poor decision making and off the pitch nonsense has tainted the club for me. We all know that with better decision making we could be in a much better position, and that's frustrating. On top of these come the false promises which raise hopes (and short term season ticket sales) which is what bothers me most.
I'll end this on a bit of a positive. I think the club has done very well with the signings so far - Kalas, Odoi and Ayite look class, while Aluko looks very competent. The club has done well on a small budget but will never achieve the aim of promotion without more ambition from the owner.
Sorry for the jumbled rant, I'm tired in both senses.
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.
It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe.
There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts.
You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.
I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.
I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.
As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.
Arthur,
I would like to remind you, that this is a footballing forum, a place where people come to discuss their footballing opinions, not a place where they have to constantly back up their opinions with facts or creditable statements.
The OP has not been misleading, nor should they have to provide you with factual information, just so it satisfies your level of beliefs.
Please debate reasonably, or not at all.
The bottom line is, Shahid Khan you're a lying ****. We want our club back or in the hands of someone who gives a ****
The riverside stand while wonderful on paper was nothing more than a vanity project, a pipe dream to impress and raise false hope among supporters. And no amount of cosy chitchats between Fulham fans representatives and the club will change people's opinions to that.
FFC even clouded the issue by getting in the people - (Thomas Heatherwick) whose egotistical idea of the idiotic London Garden Bridge which has by the way seen nearly forty million pounds of public money wasted on this crackpot scheme – to revise the approved FFC Riverside Stand design.
The amount of preparatory work required to the foreshore and surrounding area around the Riverside Stand before any above ground work could have even started would have been colossal and been clearly noticeable to anyone and everyone. There was none.
It has been common knowledge among many people for some time now that the new Riverside Stand is little more than a fantasy. But you must admit it would have looked lovely.
sorry, but I don't agree, we've signed 8 players as of now, they may not be £5m price tags but pre-season has been a success, Jokanovic obviously wants more signings and is saying so at every opportunity. The team looks just that, a team, Ryan Sessegnon has been sensational and has earned himself a Squad shirt. What's not to like?
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.
It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe.
There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts.
You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.
I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.
I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.
As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.
Oh no I'm not !
As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.
And before anyone starts pulling Khans words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.
This thread has become the most unpleasant that I can remember.
It has become a place for those with extreme negative opinions where they offer, if any, one sided views such as listing all the bad purchases but ignore the good.
Responses that try to engage are dismissed as wanting 'stats and facts' as though that would be bizarre in a discussion or just abuse such as "bore off".
Is this what FoF is supposed to offer? Is this to be the new norm?
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.
It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe.
There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts.
You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.
I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.
I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.
As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.
Oh no I'm not !
As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.
And before anyone starts pulling his words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.
And you are telling us now
for certain that this team or the one at the end of the transfer window is not capable of promotion?
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on August 02, 2016, 10:26:08 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.
It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe.
There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts.
You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.
I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.
I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.
As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.
Oh no I'm not !
As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.
And before anyone starts pulling his words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.
And you are telling us now for certain that this team or the one at the end of the transfer window is not capable of promotion?
I'm telling you now for certain the team/squad is not capable of putting together a promotion season.
I'm Ok with that as long as we are competitive and finish top half, but its not what we've been promised.
If quality signings happen before the window closes I will eat my hat, dance on the table for joy and admit I was wrong!
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on August 02, 2016, 10:26:08 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.
It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe.
There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts.
You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.
I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.
I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.
As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.
Oh no I'm not !
As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.
And before anyone starts pulling his words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.
And you are telling us now for certain that this team or the one at the end of the transfer window is not capable of promotion?
Here we go again, you just can't accept someone's opinion can you? You have to highlight in bold words 'for certain' as if the poster has to prove to you that we won't get promoted. Once again, who cares, it's his opinion, he's entitled to it, if we go up we go up, if we don't we don't.
And yes, you're a bore, just like your little whinge above, about how this thread is the worst you've ever seen, And this the fof way, you're so overdramatic it's unreal.
Quote from: Statto on August 02, 2016, 06:46:22 PM
reluctant to agree with anyone who says things like "bore off" when confronted with anything vaguely resembling reality or reason... but i do agree with the OP on this
IMO the lack of commitment this summer, both off the pitch (riverside stand) and on it, is hugely significant. historically i've thought khan was willing to bring us success, but just unable to do it (ie a well intentioned idiot). now i'm beginning to think he's neither willing nor able
as i've said on several other threads, i wouldn't be surprised to find out that he's not even been putting in the amount permitted by FFP, which i think most of us had assumed he was until now
that would explain why he's been banging on about "sustainability" all along... Code for the club paying its own way without his backing
1. Absolutely nothing wrong with sustainability
2. The permitted loss under FFP is not necessarily made up by the difference in the money paid/received for transfers
Just my 2 cents
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.
I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.
I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.
As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.
Oh no I'm not !
As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.
And before anyone starts pulling Khans words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.
Seeing as this has turned into somewhat of a pantomime: 'Oh yes, you are!'
I pointed out that the O.P's alleged 'lie' was a remark Khan made some two years ago and that it was, therefore, nothing new. I don't need to be aware of what our Chairman has said since to know that this is so.
Telling me that Khan has made similar comments in the two years since does not support my view; on the contrary, being in possession of such knowledge can only help the O.P.
Hence, my suggestion that you would be better off letting the O.P. know that there is a recent statement which he can draw upon.
As it is, the verbatim remark to which you refer is: 'Slaviša will be given the green light to build a team capable of promotion... and take aim at promotion'.
Is this a lie? Too early to say, in my opinion.
Quote from: Friendsoffulham on August 02, 2016, 07:57:49 PM
Arthur,
I would like to remind you, that this is a footballing forum, a place where people come to discuss their footballing opinions, not a place where they have to constantly back up their opinions with facts or creditable statements.
The OP has not been misleading, nor should they have to provide you with factual information, just so it satisfies your level of beliefs.
Please debate reasonably, or not at all.
Having behaved so improperly as for you to need to admonish me publicly, I have deleted both posts that precede your intervention.
I confess, however, that I am struggling with your interpretation of what constitutes reasonable debate.
The O.P. was attacking Shahid Khan. As our owner is not in the position to defend himself, I believed I was permitted to do so.
Indeed, were Khan to have met his accusers today, the discussion may well have gone along the following lines (the same lines as did my debate in this thread):
'You're lying yet again!' the O.P. exclaims.
'No, I'm not; that remark is two years old,' Khan replies.
'I think the O.P's right. You've told a number of lies,' another unhappy supporter interjects.
'If I'm 'lying again', tell me, then: What's the lie?' our Chairman asks.
I would argue that anyone would be hard put to come up with a more natural reaction than these two responses. Nor would anyone think that this defence was in any way unreasonable.
Quote from: Wearethewhites on August 02, 2016, 11:13:04 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on August 02, 2016, 10:26:08 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.
It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe.
There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts.
You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.
I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.
I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.
As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.
Oh no I'm not !
As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.
And before anyone starts pulling his words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.
And you are telling us now for certain that this team or the one at the end of the transfer window is not capable of promotion?
Here we go again, you just can't accept someone's opinion can you? You have to highlight in bold words 'for certain' as if the poster has to prove to you that we won't get promoted. Once again, who cares, it's his opinion, he's entitled to it, if we go up we go up, if we don't we don't.
And yes, you're a bore, just like your little whinge above, about how this thread is the worst you've ever seen, And this the fof way, you're so overdramatic it's unreal.
I accept opinions all the time on here even if I do not agree with them if, boringly, those opinions fit with the facts and stats that we know and are coherently expressed rather than being based on a series of dubious and pessimistic assumptions.
What is strange is that some posters who offer their opinions very forcibly get very sensitive when asked about the basis of those views.
What is an opinion worth if it is not worth explaining?
In this case I am pointing out that it is rather early to dismiss a whole season when the transfer window has not closed and a ball has yet to be kicked in anger.
You do not have to agree with that but many will feel that is a valid query.
Most every business I can think of these days seems to make promises that are not kept. It's in advertising, it's in hype, it's in the media, it's everywhere, even in sport. I know little about Mr Khan aside from what I have seen and read from the obvious sources but it would seem strange to buy a football club with a reasonable potential income just to watch it decay away and so whatever frustrations we feel about Fulham FC we must accept he has been thwarted by management appointments that have, up until Mr Jokanovic, failed. Players, lots of them, have been brought into the team but have not performed to ability or required standard in a team that has consistently under-achieved, and it is Mr Khan's money that has purchased them and paid their wages. Mr Khan appears to have done most of what he could reasonably be expected to do given he has staff aside from the football coaches advising as necessary. Perhaps the advice Mr Khan has been getting has been inappropriate but again who would know outside the Club? We are all good at the blame game, it's human nature, but it's a lot harder to contribute positive influence during tough times. Like shouting for your team when they are five nothing down and only ten minutes into a game it is about our DNA and how we raise the morale of everybody when there is not much to feel happy about. We get a lot of practice of that at Fulham and we should be good at it.
Quote from: Wearethewhites on August 02, 2016, 11:13:04 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on August 02, 2016, 10:26:08 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 02, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 02, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
If you go back far enough you will find other similar statements about plans for the club made by the owner that can reasonably be interpreted in a certain positive way.
It is also fair to view the actions taken by the club following those statements to be inconsistent with those reasonable expectations that the owner had led us to believe.
There is a history of misleading and evasive statements building, if you are not aware of them then you are not in full command of the facts.
You are addressing your remark to the wrong person; it is the O.P. to whom this should be directed.
I have merely pointed out that his harking back to a remark made two years ago makes his argument 'old hat'.
I assume that if he knew of a recent statement to support his claim, he would refer to it.
As you are aware of a number of 'misleading and evasive statements', it would help the O.P. if you quoted something current that reinforces his belief that 'we're being lied to again'.
Oh no I'm not !
As you've been told elsewhere contributors don't have to provide fact upon fact to back up their posts but if you had your wits about you you would be aware of the owners bold statement at 12.30 on the 27th April 2016 when he promised a team capable of promotion and the aim was promotion.
And before anyone starts pulling his words apart and trying to make out it proves nothing let me remind you nobody put a gun to his head and made him say that and while no one can guarantee promotion those words don't match whats happened so far.
And you are telling us now for certain that this team or the one at the end of the transfer window is not capable of promotion?
Here we go again, you just can't accept someone's opinion can you? You have to highlight in bold words 'for certain' as if the poster has to prove to you that we won't get promoted. Once again, who cares, it's his opinion, he's entitled to it, if we go up we go up, if we don't we don't.
And yes, you're a bore, just like your little whinge above, about how this thread is the worst you've ever seen, And this the fof way, you're so overdramatic it's unreal.
As advised by FriendsofFulham, if a poster does not like the posts of another member then they can choose to 'ignore' them and so not see their future posts.
Quote from: alexmur on August 02, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: Patrick on August 02, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I will defer judgement on the transfers/Khan's promises/Joka's capabilities until November 1st....by then things should be very clear indeed....
could not agree more 10 games is when I'll start pointing fingers if needs be, but let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Yes agreed
Khan's ownership has been poor from the word go:
1 - Not letting Jol go in the summer of 2013.
2 - Taking too long to let Jol go during the season (it took 5 consecutive losses).
3 - Not giving Meulensteen enough time.
4 - Going off the back of Mackintosh's advice to hire Magath somewhat dumbfoundedly.
5 - Sacking Meulensteen just after the transfer window when we were turning a corner.
6 - Not sacking Magath in the summer of 2014.
7 - Not allowing Magath to speak to Southampton in the summer of 2014.
8 - Allowing Magath to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
9 - Taking too long to sack Magath after the start of the season.
10 - Taking over a month to appoint Kit Symons even though there were no other candidates.
11 - Appointing Mike Rigg.
12 - Zero ins in January 2015.
13 - According to TransferMarkt, not spending any money (net) on transfers since relegation.
14 - Taking over a month to hire Jokanovic.
15 - Allowing the club to fall under FFP as a result of Magath's madness in Summer 2014 (Dino Fazlic et al).
16 - Allowing McCormack to leave.
17 - Annoying Jokanovic (read his post-match comments after the Palace(?) friendly).
Quote from: Brawn on August 03, 2016, 06:23:34 PM
Khan's ownership has been poor from the word go:
1 - Not letting Jol go in the summer of 2013.
2 - Taking too long to let Jol go during the season (it took 5 consecutive losses).
3 - Not giving Meulensteen enough time.
4 - Going off the back of Mackintosh's advice to hire Magath somewhat dumbfoundedly.
5 - Sacking Meulensteen just after the transfer window when we were turning a corner.
6 - Not sacking Magath in the summer of 2014.
7 - Not allowing Magath to speak to Southampton in the summer of 2014.
8 - Allowing Magath to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
9 - Taking too long to sack Magath after the start of the season.
10 - Taking over a month to appoint Kit Symons even though there were no other candidates.
11 - Appointing Mike Rigg.
12 - Zero ins in January 2015.
13 - According to TransferMarkt, not spending any money (net) on transfers since relegation.
14 - Taking over a month to hire Jokanovic.
15 - Allowing the club to fall under FFP as a result of Magath's madness in Summer 2014 (Dino Fazlic et al).
16 - Allowing McCormack to leave.
17 - Annoying Jokanovic (read his post-match comments after the Palace(?) friendly).
Can we get this tweeted to ffclive for the big screen on friday?
