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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: nose on August 21, 2016, 12:48:32 PM

Title: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: nose on August 21, 2016, 12:48:32 PM
I am not seeing that 'whatever it takes' is happening
a bit of what it takes and then when season tickets are sold no need to bother seems to be occuring

whatever it takes should have meant a change in the senior management and purchasing policy..... instead we have a brilliant manager that feels totally frustrated at the nonsense of the last three disastorous years continuing.

Mr Khan it is time to listen to people that know more, namely us the supporters. we can see a disastour unfloding again, time to act!

honestly how can the ceo remain in situ after everything that has happened in the last three years. if he was any good this wouldn't be happening now.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Chutney on August 21, 2016, 12:56:41 PM
Khan has done nothing but lie and deceive since he took the reigns. The flat out lack of respect he demonstrates by doing so is disgusting.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: nose on August 21, 2016, 12:58:56 PM
Quote from: Chutney on August 21, 2016, 12:56:41 PM
Khan has done nothing but lie and deceive since he took the reigns. The flat out lack of respect he demonstrates by doing so is disgusting.

personally I would not say that but he certainly speaks well but does not follow through with appropriate action
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Fulham76 on August 21, 2016, 01:07:13 PM
He hasn't followed through on his promises & doesn't look like he will again this summer.

For the record he said he has 'given SJ the green light to build a team capable of challenging for promotion'. Instead of allowing SJ to build anything we've got a clown with a computer!

But a lot of us are forgetting that we're a pretty small investment within his group of businesses/interests & he probably cares very little for what we think. This stats business could turn out to be a massive success, (unlikely it will benefit us), but elsewhere & potentially make him more billions, so I understand, from a business point of view, why it's got his backing.

I assume he'll continue to focus on his main interests & allow us to float along until a buyer is found or he decides to do whatever it was that he bought us for in the first place.

This guy is a very successful businessman, one of the richest on the planet & he wouldn't be stupid enough to think he was going to make money from us on the football side of things.

Exactly why he did buy us remains a mystery but I don't think we'll like it if we ever find out.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: bill taylors apprentice on August 21, 2016, 01:16:08 PM
And did anyone read his words in yesterdays programme ?

Apart from the news on George Cohen's statue unavailing, it was all the same tired words but not necessarily in the same order as before.

The man probably didn't actually write it himself but he put his signature to another load of sanctimonious drivel !
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: HatterDon on August 29, 2016, 01:49:09 AM
Quote from: nose on August 21, 2016, 12:48:32 PM
I am not seeing that 'whatever it takes' is happening
a bit of what it takes and then when season tickets are sold no need to bother seems to be occuring

whatever it takes should have meant a change in the senior management and purchasing policy..... instead we have a brilliant manager that feels totally frustrated at the nonsense of the last three disastorous years continuing.

Mr Khan it is time to listen to people that know more, namely us the supporters. we can see a disastour unfloding again, time to act!

honestly how can the ceo remain in situ after everything that has happened in the last three years. if he was any good this wouldn't be happening now.

HEY, WE'RE UNDEFEATED FOR THE ENTIRE MONTH OF AUGUST -- INCLUDING TWO CUP TIES

Sorry to yell, but it seems as if there are folks on here who post the same stuff 12 times a day regardless of our performance or results.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Forever Fulham on August 29, 2016, 04:51:33 AM
Nothing but lie and deceive?  Is that so?  Perhaps you know how much he has to spend at this point to stay within the rules.  If so, please explain to the rest of us.  Isn't it a bit presumptuous to call the owner a liar and a deceiver because he hasn't spent enough of his own money at this point in time to satisfy your personal wishes?   Seems like the club is quietly adding key players, has significant turnover, and appears not to be done yet with acquisitions. 
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 06:44:48 AM
Considering the dross we've brought in during the previous three seasons on the "manager's recommendations" it is perhaps been a good thing to have Kline looking at the analytics - it has produced some unexpected gems so far and there is nothing to say that letting SJ have the only input would have achieved a better result. So far the Kline team are playing fine and we have a great manager to mold them into an effective team.

As far as him putting money into the club - no one knows - but since we had a transfer embargo during the January window we must have over spent and made higher losses that FFP allows - I think people forget the the FFP loss includes operating costs - wages for instance - and that is not just the amount we can spend on transfer fees.

As far as sitting back and waiting for a buyer is concerned - that makes no sense at all since the club is worth zilch until we get back into the PL

What is needed now are strikers and with most teams in the PL and elsewhere needing to down size their squads before the window closes there are going to be some unexpected opportunities in the market for us to look at and our good start should be an attraction to them. That and being able to live and work in one of the worlds most attractive cities.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Holders on August 29, 2016, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 06:44:48 AM
Considering the dross we've brought in during the previous three seasons on the "manager's recommendations" it is perhaps been a good thing to have Kline looking at the analytics - it has produced some unexpected gems so far and there is nothing to say that letting SJ have the only input would have achieved a better result. So far the Kline team are playing fine and we have a great manager to mold them into an effective team.

As far as him putting money into the club - no one knows - but since we had a transfer embargo during the January window we must have over spent and made higher losses that FFP allows - I think people forget the the FFP loss includes operating costs - wages for instance - and that is not just the amount we can spend on transfer fees.

As far as sitting back and waiting for a buyer is concerned - that makes no sense at all since the club is worth zilch until we get back into the PL

What is needed now are strikers and with most teams in the PL and elsewhere needing to down size their squads before the window closes there are going to be some unexpected opportunities in the market for us to look at and our good start should be an attraction to them. That and being able to live and work in one of the worlds most attractive cities.

Which city's that?!
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 10:02:08 AM
Quote from: Holders on August 29, 2016, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 06:44:48 AM
Considering the dross we've brought in during the previous three seasons on the "manager's recommendations" it is perhaps been a good thing to have Kline looking at the analytics - it has produced some unexpected gems so far and there is nothing to say that letting SJ have the only input would have achieved a better result. So far the Kline team are playing fine and we have a great manager to mold them into an effective team.

As far as him putting money into the club - no one knows - but since we had a transfer embargo during the January window we must have over spent and made higher losses that FFP allows - I think people forget the the FFP loss includes operating costs - wages for instance - and that is not just the amount we can spend on transfer fees.

As far as sitting back and waiting for a buyer is concerned - that makes no sense at all since the club is worth zilch until we get back into the PL

What is needed now are strikers and with most teams in the PL and elsewhere needing to down size their squads before the window closes there are going to be some unexpected opportunities in the market for us to look at and our good start should be an attraction to them. That and being able to live and work in one of the worlds most attractive cities.

Which city's that?!

The one that has shoppers spending more money that any two other cities in the world - the perfect location for any wag
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: grandad on August 29, 2016, 10:07:34 AM
I see the usual Khan haters are out. If we were to finish 2nd this season they would still be complaining that he should have spent big & go up as Champions..
You lot know nothing about the financial requirements of the club which Khan has to underwrite.
Where does it say that an owner has to spend multi millions to build a successful team. We have been there before with several failures & not all of them in Khan?s tenure.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: alexmur on August 29, 2016, 10:10:17 AM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 29, 2016, 01:49:09 AM
Quote from: nose on August 21, 2016, 12:48:32 PM
I am not seeing that 'whatever it takes' is happening
a bit of what it takes and then when season tickets are sold no need to bother seems to be occuring

whatever it takes should have meant a change in the senior management and purchasing policy..... instead we have a brilliant manager that feels totally frustrated at the nonsense of the last three disastorous years continuing.

Mr Khan it is time to listen to people that know more, namely us the supporters. we can see a disastour unfloding again, time to act!

honestly how can the ceo remain in situ after everything that has happened in the last three years. if he was any good this wouldn't be happening now.

HEY, WE'RE UNDEFEATED FOR THE ENTIRE MONTH OF AUGUST -- INCLUDING TWO CUP TIES

Sorry to yell, but it seems as if there are folks on here who post the same stuff 12 times a day regardless of our performance or results.
well said hatter, like my wife some people just like having a moan.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 10:18:37 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 09:07:10 AM
Couple of observations

1. It amazes me how assertively people can judge our new signings when by my count 4 of them, representing about two thirds of the gross spend, haven't played substantially more than 90 minutes. The success of this window is also contingent on us signing one or two strikers that haven't even been identified (to fans) yet. Whilst I'm beginning to share others' optimism (for various reasons, generally attributable to the manager, that I won't go into) we'd do well not to completely forget how impressed we were with Stearman, O'Hara, Stafylidis and even Bodurov at first.

2. Breaching FFP limits in 2014/15 means we lost more than permitted that year (?3m) but it doesn't necessarily mean Khan put in more than, or indeed any of, the equity investment that was permitted (?5m).

I wasn't but that doesn't matter and you can add Pringle and Ross to your list - all of them may have been their clubs player of the year but for clubs that never won anything. The new lot haven't won anything either but they seem to be more skillful and have a better spirit and this time round we seem to have a manager who know how organise them.

It is well to remember that the fans campaigned for Kit to be manager and Khan gave us exactly what we wanted - what a mistake that was.

You seem to be obsessed Khan's and money? I presume Forbes do not lie and he has some!

There is no tooth fairy - if the club has lost money you can add it to the 200m he paid for the club. At the moment our club is worth zilch and he's never going to get it back until we get into the PL. Moving us out of the Cottage and building on it is not an option - as the great Egyptian found out when we were playing at Loftus Road. So his only option is promotion.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Tonywa on August 29, 2016, 10:51:22 AM
And there was me delighted with our start to the season and really pleased with recruitment up to now thinking we only need a couple of decent strikers to complete the job and IU find myself in the midst of all sorts of criticism.  I have expressed my displeasure withe Chairman and his handling of the club in the past, but (given we get those strikers) I really cannot see what there is to moan about at the moment. A complete overhaul of the squad was promised and that's exactly what we have had.  What's the problem?
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Arthur on August 29, 2016, 10:53:02 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 09:07:10 AM
Couple of observations

1. It amazes me how assertively people can judge our new signings when by my count 4 of them, representing about two thirds of the gross spend, haven't played substantially more than 90 minutes.

As assertively as this, do you mean?

Quote from: Statto on August 27, 2016, 05:20:48 PM
I'm optimistic that we'll sign a striker and we've still sigurdsson and johansen to bring in as well. And I expect Ayite, Jozabed and Kebano to get better as they adjust to the championship. So I am thinking about promotion.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: bill taylors apprentice on August 29, 2016, 11:06:13 AM
Quote from: grandad on August 29, 2016, 10:07:34 AM
I see the usual Khan haters are out. If we were to finish 2nd this season they would still be complaining that he should have spent big & go up as Champions..
You lot know nothing about the financial requirements of the club which Khan has to underwrite.
Where does it say that an owner has to spend multi millions to build a successful team. We have been there before with several failures & not all of them in Khan?s tenure.

NO! The "usual Khan haters" as you call them are not out, people are responding to an update on a post, made when there was a long wait for the next signing.

Who are you to say "you lot know nothing about the financial requirements" I think that shows an ignorance on your part.

There may be a few blinkered "haters" on here but to one degree or another its the management of the club overall off the pitch and how its  affected the team and recruitment that people are not happy about , everything else is a side issue for now.

You pop up every now and again and make your remarks (which you're entitled to) as if you are the voice of reason but you make these comments with no more knowledge about Khans input than those you criticise.
You appear to know less than most about whats going on and just stick your head in the sand (that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it as well)

We are in a better position team wise as of today but its taken too long to reach this point, there are still issues to be resolved on and off the pitch

The OP questions the clubs statements of intent and whichever way you look at them they have been misleading at best.
Its a bit like trying to find the truth in a politicians words only this is an English Football club and there's no need for weasel words.

The update post by HD is an unfounded dig because a quick review of recent posts would suggest "the same stuff" is not being repeated, let alone 12 times a day and there IS a growing optimism about the team.

Its been a good start but its early days and while you may feel the need to "Yell" there are player issues that still need to resolved (not to mention off the field issues)  if only people were closer to the action they might see things differently?
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Lighthouse on August 29, 2016, 11:18:54 AM
This is the second or possibly third season we have had to change the squad almost in its entirety. Either the system doesn't/didn't work or the people in the that system were failing.

It is hard to criticise this season. We have the same argument about players not coming in quickly enough but we know from experience that with the transfer window as it is, this will always be the case. The days of over spending on iffy players are long gone.

We really are short of a few players up front. But then that was always going to be a position that was going to be the hardest to fill. Which is why we have done well bringing in so many attacking midfield options.

Many people are happy to have a go at the owner and to heap praise on our manager. But both extremes are probably wide of the mark. But if we don't get too cocky and expect promotion and bring in a forward or two. Plus keep our best players then few would argue that this has been a very good transfer window for us. If we fail to bring in a forward or two. Then the arguments will continue.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: bill taylors apprentice on August 29, 2016, 11:24:24 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 29, 2016, 11:14:31 AM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 29, 2016, 11:06:13 AM
Quote from: grandad on August 29, 2016, 10:07:34 AM
I see the usual Khan haters are out. If we were to finish 2nd this season they would still be complaining that he should have spent big & go up as Champions..
You lot know nothing about the financial requirements of the club which Khan has to underwrite.
Where does it say that an owner has to spend multi millions to build a successful team. We have been there before with several failures & not all of them in Khan?s tenure.

NO! The "usual Khan haters" as you call them are not out, people are responding to an update on a previous post, made when there was a long wait for the next signing.

Who are you to say "you lot know nothing about the financial requirements" I think that shows an ignorance on your part.

There may be a few blinkered "haters" on here but to one degree or another its the management of the club overall off the pitch and how its  affected the team and recruitment that people are not happy about , everything else is a side issue for now.

You pop up every now and again and make your remarks (which you're entitled to) as if you are the voice of reason but you make these comments with no more knowledge about Khans input than those you criticise.
You appear to know less than most about whats going on and just stick your head in the sand (that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it as well)

We are in a better position team wise as of today but its taken too long to reach this point, there are still issues to be resolved on and off the pitch

The OP questions the clubs statements of intent and whichever way you look at them they have been misleading at best.
Its a bit like trying to find the truth in a politicians words only this is an English Football club and there's no need for weasel words.

The update post by HD is an unfounded dig because a quick review of recent posts would suggest "the same stuff" is not being repeated, let all alone 12 times a day and there is a growing optimism about the team.

Its been a good start but its early days and while you may feel the need to "Yell" there are player issues that still need to resolved (not to mention off the field issues) and if people where closer to the action they might see things differently?

You have pretty much said what I feel.


Cheers !
I try my best !
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Arthur on August 29, 2016, 11:32:17 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 11:11:02 AM
Quote from: Arthur on August 29, 2016, 10:53:02 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 09:07:10 AM
Couple of observations

1. It amazes me how assertively people can judge our new signings when by my count 4 of them, representing about two thirds of the gross spend, haven't played substantially more than 90 minutes.

As assertively as this, do you mean?

Quote from: Statto on August 27, 2016, 05:20:48 PM
I'm optimistic that we'll sign a striker and we've still sigurdsson and johansen to bring in as well. And I expect Ayite, Jozabed and Kebano to get better as they adjust to the championship. So I am thinking about promotion.

I'm confused. Have you actually read the two posts quoted there? If you're trying to show inconsistency here I literally don't think you could have made a worse attempt at it. Maybe I'm missing something

Now you seem to have finalised your reply:

You've got it: the two posts lack consistency.

In Saturday's post, you judge our new signings so favourably that you're thinking about promotion; in today's post, you're amazed that others can already be so confident about the success of our transfer business this window.

Tell me otherwise.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: SG on August 29, 2016, 11:42:42 AM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 29, 2016, 11:24:24 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 29, 2016, 11:14:31 AM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 29, 2016, 11:06:13 AM
Quote from: grandad on August 29, 2016, 10:07:34 AM
I see the usual Khan haters are out. If we were to finish 2nd this season they would still be complaining that he should have spent big & go up as Champions..
You lot know nothing about the financial requirements of the club which Khan has to underwrite.
Where does it say that an owner has to spend multi millions to build a successful team. We have been there before with several failures & not all of them in Khan?s tenure.

NO! The "usual Khan haters" as you call them are not out, people are responding to an update on a previous post, made when there was a long wait for the next signing.

Who are you to say "you lot know nothing about the financial requirements" I think that shows an ignorance on your part.

There may be a few blinkered "haters" on here but to one degree or another its the management of the club overall off the pitch and how its  affected the team and recruitment that people are not happy about , everything else is a side issue for now.

You pop up every now and again and make your remarks (which you're entitled to) as if you are the voice of reason but you make these comments with no more knowledge about Khans input than those you criticise.
You appear to know less than most about whats going on and just stick your head in the sand (that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it as well)

We are in a better position team wise as of today but its taken too long to reach this point, there are still issues to be resolved on and off the pitch

The OP questions the clubs statements of intent and whichever way you look at them they have been misleading at best.
Its a bit like trying to find the truth in a politicians words only this is an English Football club and there's no need for weasel words.

The update post by HD is an unfounded dig because a quick review of recent posts would suggest "the same stuff" is not being repeated, let all alone 12 times a day and there is a growing optimism about the team.

Its been a good start but its early days and while you may feel the need to "Yell" there are player issues that still need to resolved (not to mention off the field issues) and if people where closer to the action they might see things differently?

You have pretty much said what I feel.


Cheers !
I try my best !

This echoes my thoughts as well. We have had 3 years of Khans chairmanship which by any measure the club has significantly regressed. Thankfully we look to be turning it around but as our manager has already warned there is a long season ahead.
Having said that a friend of mine visited Motspur Park recently as part of his job and commented that the work they are doing here is making it an incredible facility. Maybe the club should be doing more to publicise the investment they are making there with updates of the work. Most of us know little about this and information would help to build upon the feel good factor
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 10:38:29 AM
Roberty, I'm not obsessed with "Khan's and money". You seemed to be suggesting the FFP breached proved Khan was putting money into the club, and I was merely correcting that fallacy.

I could say it's just as likely we lost money and breached FFP precisely because Khan didn't put any money into the club.

But then again you seem to think a championship football club with steady 5-figure attendances and a massive plot of land in West London is worth "zilch" so maybe you know something we all don't.

I'm struggling to understand your arithmetic - if we lost money and to have a transfer embargo would suggest we did - it means that our expenditure was more than our income - either he guaranteed a bank loan or transferred more money into the club - either way the loss has, did or will come out of his pocket - just as will any loss when or if he sells the club without PL status.

Your confusing Profit and Loss Account with Balance Sheet - the P&L account is the summation of our total Income and total expenditure (including transfer fees) - the FFP limit applies to this account - the Balance Sheet is a record of his investment and losses are financed here as would any investment into the ground or Motspur Park.

I know were a Championship club that looses money - what do you think that is worth?

What do you think the "massive plot of land is worth" if you can only rent it out for people to play sports on?

The LBHF have already refused change of use to residential once and are not likely to be minded to allow an owner to go down that route now - that it why the great Egyptian gave up on that idea when we were at camping out at Loftus Road.

The value in our club was for it being in the PL - we not now - so it is worth a whole lot less that it was when he brought it for - and in terms of his total wealth that would be zilch - less than he spend running his yacht last year I would guess.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Finnegans Wake on August 29, 2016, 12:10:34 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 29, 2016, 11:06:13 AM
Quote from: grandad on August 29, 2016, 10:07:34 AM
I see the usual Khan haters are out. If we were to finish 2nd this season they would still be complaining that he should have spent big & go up as Champions..
You lot know nothing about the financial requirements of the club which Khan has to underwrite.
Where does it say that an owner has to spend multi millions to build a successful team. We have been there before with several failures & not all of them in Khan?s tenure.

NO! The "usual Khan haters" as you call them are not out, people are responding to an update on a post, made when there was a long wait for the next signing.

Who are you to say "you lot know nothing about the financial requirements" I think that shows an ignorance on your part.

There may be a few blinkered "haters" on here but to one degree or another its the management of the club overall off the pitch and how its  affected the team and recruitment that people are not happy about , everything else is a side issue for now.

You pop up every now and again and make your remarks (which you're entitled to) as if you are the voice of reason but you make these comments with no more knowledge about Khans input than those you criticise.
You appear to know less than most about whats going on and just stick your head in the sand (that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it as well)

We are in a better position team wise as of today but its taken too long to reach this point, there are still issues to be resolved on and off the pitch

The OP questions the clubs statements of intent and whichever way you look at them they have been misleading at best.
Its a bit like trying to find the truth in a politicians words only this is an English Football club and there's no need for weasel words.

The update post by HD is an unfounded dig because a quick review of recent posts would suggest "the same stuff" is not being repeated, let alone 12 times a day and there IS a growing optimism about the team.

Its been a good start but its early days and while you may feel the need to "Yell" there are player issues that still need to resolved (not to mention off the field issues)  if only people were closer to the action they might see things differently?


In fairness Id say Grandads first and second sentences were about right.

As you said, the original post was made when there was a "long wait for the next signing". Its always the same people who seem to try and find even the slightest of faults then use it to put the boot in to Kahn/The Club, spread a load of doom and gloom and usually back up with nothing more than opinion and speculation on his/the clubs agenda.

I think people just get very bored with it.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: MJG on August 29, 2016, 12:29:21 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 12:16:32 PM
Quote from: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
I'm struggling to understand your arithmetic - if we lost money and to have a transfer embargo would suggest we did - it means that our expenditure was more than our income - either he guaranteed a bank loan or transferred more money into the club - either way the loss has, did or will come out of his pocket - just as will any loss when or if he sells the club without PL status.

We were told we only just breached FFP which suggests we lost ?3m that season. In the last two seasons I doubt we've lost any money at all, although happy to see your evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure that a business with ?30m+ annual revenue (and the land i just mentioned) would need a guarantor for a ?3m loan. But even if it did, I don't think many on here would call that, guaranteeing one small loan in the last 3 yrs, putting his wealth into the club.   

Quote from: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
I know were a Championship club that looses money - what do you think that is worth?

See above. In any case when Khan bought us we were losing ?10-20m per year, and still worth ?200m (you say)
in the last two seasons we lost money in  14/15 season as we failed ffp so must have lost money
I would not expect us to fail ffp in 15/16 but I would expect a loss in the accounts of some kind.
In this season that's still to be decided but I expect to us to show a loss at this stage.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 12:16:32 PM
Quote from: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
I'm struggling to understand your arithmetic - if we lost money and to have a transfer embargo would suggest we did - it means that our expenditure was more than our income - either he guaranteed a bank loan or transferred more money into the club - either way the loss has, did or will come out of his pocket - just as will any loss when or if he sells the club without PL status.

We were told we only just breached FFP which suggests we lost ?3m that season. In the last two seasons I doubt we've lost any money at all, although happy to see your evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure that a business with ?30m+ annual revenue (and the land i just mentioned) would need a guarantor for a ?3m loan. But even if it did, I don't think many on here would call that, guaranteeing one small loan in the last 3 yrs, putting his wealth into the club.   

Quote from: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
I know were a Championship club that looses money - what do you think that is worth?

See above. In any case when Khan bought us we were losing ?10-20m per year, and still worth ?200m (you say)

No idea - could not be bothered to look - like you it seems. The fact there was a loss is a matter of record and as you say it has been the case for a long time.

Your confusing Profit and Loss Account with Balance Sheet - the P&L account is the summation of our total Income and total expenditure (including transfer fees) during each accounting period - the FFP limit applies to this account. The Balance Sheet is a record of his investment and losses would be financed here - any investment in to the ground or Motspur Park would be shown here too and is excluded from FFP calculations.

When Khan brought the club there was the prospect of increasing television revenues and he would expect these to cover any losses in the longer term. This is why it was worth so much money. At he moment returning to the PL is on everyone's wish list but until we're there the value of the club is severely impaired.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: filham on August 29, 2016, 12:42:31 PM
Come on we are in the top six, have made a number of new signings, the manager looks settled and most of us are happy. Why knock the chairman right now, wait until the end of the season to see how things are.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: MJG on August 29, 2016, 12:47:05 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 12:43:20 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 29, 2016, 12:29:21 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 12:16:32 PM
Quote from: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
I'm struggling to understand your arithmetic - if we lost money and to have a transfer embargo would suggest we did - it means that our expenditure was more than our income - either he guaranteed a bank loan or transferred more money into the club - either way the loss has, did or will come out of his pocket - just as will any loss when or if he sells the club without PL status.

We were told we only just breached FFP which suggests we lost ?3m that season. In the last two seasons I doubt we've lost any money at all, although happy to see your evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure that a business with ?30m+ annual revenue (and the land i just mentioned) would need a guarantor for a ?3m loan. But even if it did, I don't think many on here would call that, guaranteeing one small loan in the last 3 yrs, putting his wealth into the club.   

Quote from: Roberty on August 29, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
I know were a Championship club that looses money - what do you think that is worth?

See above. In any case when Khan bought us we were losing ?10-20m per year, and still worth ?200m (you say)
in the last two seasons we lost money in  14/15 season as we failed ffp so must have lost money
I would not expect us to fail ffp in 15/16 but I would expect a loss in the accounts of some kind.
In this season that's still to be decided but I expect to us to show a loss at this stage.

last two seasons i mean 15/16 and 16/17. not a clear way of putting it i admit.

14/15 - small (?3m) loss
15/16 - you expect a loss, fair enough, I disagree but admit it will be tight either way
16/17 - cannot for the life of me see how you can think we're showing a loss at this stage!

I expect to end up showing a loss at the end of the 2016/17 financial year in the accounts when they are published in  2018.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: MJG on August 29, 2016, 12:51:20 PM
I'll add Statto a loss is exactly what you want us to have anyway.... Right up to the limit,  or at least a ?1 below the maximum ffp limit... Isn't that right?
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: bill taylors apprentice on August 29, 2016, 01:34:00 PM
Quote from: Finnegans Wake on August 29, 2016, 12:10:34 PM
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 29, 2016, 11:06:13 AM
Quote from: grandad on August 29, 2016, 10:07:34 AM
I see the usual Khan haters are out. If we were to finish 2nd this season they would still be complaining that he should have spent big & go up as Champions..
You lot know nothing about the financial requirements of the club which Khan has to underwrite.
Where does it say that an owner has to spend multi millions to build a successful team. We have been there before with several failures & not all of them in Khan?s tenure.

NO! The "usual Khan haters" as you call them are not out, people are responding to an update on a post, made when there was a long wait for the next signing.

Who are you to say "you lot know nothing about the financial requirements" I think that shows an ignorance on your part.

There may be a few blinkered "haters" on here but to one degree or another its the management of the club overall off the pitch and how its  affected the team and recruitment that people are not happy about , everything else is a side issue for now.

You pop up every now and again and make your remarks (which you're entitled to) as if you are the voice of reason but you make these comments with no more knowledge about Khans input than those you criticise.
You appear to know less than most about whats going on and just stick your head in the sand (that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it as well)

We are in a better position team wise as of today but its taken too long to reach this point, there are still issues to be resolved on and off the pitch

The OP questions the clubs statements of intent and whichever way you look at them they have been misleading at best.
Its a bit like trying to find the truth in a politicians words only this is an English Football club and there's no need for weasel words.

The update post by HD is an unfounded dig because a quick review of recent posts would suggest "the same stuff" is not being repeated, let alone 12 times a day and there IS a growing optimism about the team.

Its been a good start but its early days and while you may feel the need to "Yell" there are player issues that still need to resolved (not to mention off the field issues)  if only people were closer to the action they might see things differently?


In fairness Id say Grandads first and second sentences were about right.

As you said, the original post was made when there was a "long wait for the next signing". Its always the same people who seem to try and find even the slightest of faults then use it to put the boot in to Kahn/The Club, spread a load of doom and gloom and usually back up with nothing more than opinion and speculation on his/the clubs agenda.

I think people just get very bored with it.

Not only do I disagree with you but I can't see why you come to that conclusion ?

We all have differing interpretations on whats going on but since the Sigurdssons signing discussions generally have been about the details of how things are done or not done with the window closing imminently.

There maybe "Khan haters" about but IMO they are fewer than some believe and anything they say now or in the future is probably best ignored.

If the likes of me and my comments on the club is being tagged as being "Khan hating" then I take offence and anyone doing so needs to think about making a better more constructive argument.

Giving a strong, but thoughtful, sometimes flawed (maybe) sometimes humours opinion is what it's all about, enough of this "hate" !
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: toshes mate on August 29, 2016, 02:40:05 PM
I am not a Khan hater, but I will have a go at him, as owner, when things are not being done that he categorically says will be done.  When this thread started we were during a long wait for signings, and, if you are speaking strikers, we are still waiting for at least one signing, and so frustrations over what perceive to be the problems are inevitable.  I notice we are second in the table, have the second best defensive record, and have more than one clean sheet, and we are unbeaten.  It seems our owner has been listening after all, first by bringing in SJ to coach us to heaven, and second by delivering a wealth of good signings in the recent past, one of whom, Mr McDonald, I believe has consolidated our greatest weakness in midfield.  But that doesn't mean I need to lay off Mr Khan and he wouldn't want me to either; he knows as a sport's club owner that fans are what help success along the way.  Without them Mr Khan knows he would be a lot poorer. 
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: toshes mate on August 29, 2016, 02:46:20 PM
And I agree with BT's Apprentice when he says "enough about hate".  I don't see people entrenched so much as concerned and they are markedly different perspectives.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: nose on August 29, 2016, 03:10:32 PM
I posted the op on 21st, nobody touched it since 1.16pm that day
today is 29th at 1.49 somebody reserectted it for no worthwhile reason other than to try and wind me up.

Since the 21st, 8 days of silence on this thread I have been one of the most enthusiastic posters and if we do get a couple of forwards (even one) then i suspect this could be a brilliant special season. I stand by my original cooments as of the 21st and in fact in reality if I really wanted to get going again I could say doing whatever it takes would not unreasonably mean having the squad in place for the pre-season (or at least the greater part of it).

It's gratifying to know 'my admirers' check so far back into the archive to see what I have been saying.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: alexmur on August 29, 2016, 04:01:26 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 29, 2016, 03:29:04 PM
We are all your admirers, even your detractors. I cannot see anyone trying to wind you up, as you are not a clock, by the way have you got the time.
Also when is the exact deadline of this particular window.
11 pm on the 31st of August

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: alexmur on August 29, 2016, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 29, 2016, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: alexmur on August 29, 2016, 04:01:26 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 29, 2016, 03:29:04 PM
We are all your admirers, even your detractors. I cannot see anyone trying to wind you up, as you are not a clock, by the way have you got the time.
Also when is the exact deadline of this particular window.
11 pm on the 31st of August

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk



Hmmm
2016

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: nose on August 29, 2016, 04:15:03 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 29, 2016, 03:29:04 PM
We are all your admirers, even your detractors. I cannot see anyone trying to wind you up, as you are not a clock, by the way have you got the time.
Also when is the exact deadline of this particular window.

No deadline, ever.
I was just saying this was 10 pages down before revival.
I am thrilled that my words have such long term resonance.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: nose on August 29, 2016, 09:29:45 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 29, 2016, 04:24:51 PM
Quote from: nose on August 29, 2016, 04:15:03 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 29, 2016, 03:29:04 PM
We are all your admirers, even your detractors. I cannot see anyone trying to wind you up, as you are not a clock, by the way have you got the time.
Also when is the exact deadline of this particular window.

No deadline, ever.
I was just saying this was 10 pages down before revival.
I am thrilled that my words have such long term resonance.


The definition of the word " resonance as defined in the English Oxford Collins Dictionary is.... " The quality in a sound of being deep, full and reverberating ".

well that is the quality I respectful think i achieve...

by the way as a scientist I think resonance has a slightly different meaning, in that it is the natuaral frequency of an item. I am not in a fit state to offer the text book definition.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: MJG on August 30, 2016, 10:14:56 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 29, 2016, 12:51:20 PM
I'll add Statto a loss is exactly what you want us to have anyway.... Right up to the limit,  or at least a ?1 below the maximum ffp limit... Isn't that right?

when the chairman said "whatever it takes" that was my expectation yes

not only the loss but also the other element of FFP, the chairman's cash injection, i expceted us to max that out too
The problem of course with doing that now is that it gives you nowhere to go in january when even if we are doing well you would look to improve the squad in some ways.
better to leave yourself some room without using ALL the money this window.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: toshes mate on August 30, 2016, 11:25:29 AM
Quote from: nose on August 29, 2016, 04:15:03 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 29, 2016, 03:29:04 PM
We are all your admirers, even your detractors. I cannot see anyone trying to wind you up, as you are not a clock, by the way have you got the time.
Also when is the exact deadline of this particular window.

No deadline, ever.
I was just saying this was 10 pages down before revival.
I am thrilled that my words have such long term resonance.


And I take your point and echo it.  Mr Khan has to retrieve our spot in the PL and consolidate it as did MAF.  That is "whatever it takes"
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: NogoodBoyo on August 30, 2016, 11:44:00 AM
Are investments on players classified as capital investments applied to the balance sheet, or operating expenses on the P&L?
Nogood "asking Statto, MJG, accountants, other financial types out there or Macintosh, isit" Boyo
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Apprentice to the Maestro on August 30, 2016, 12:16:03 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 30, 2016, 10:14:56 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 29, 2016, 12:51:20 PM
I'll add Statto a loss is exactly what you want us to have anyway.... Right up to the limit,  or at least a ?1 below the maximum ffp limit... Isn't that right?

when the chairman said "whatever it takes" that was my expectation yes

not only the loss but also the other element of FFP, the chairman's cash injection, i expceted us to max that out too
The problem of course with doing that now is that it gives you nowhere to go in january when even if we are doing well you would look to improve the squad in some ways.
better to leave yourself some room without using ALL the money this window.

Another factor, as you have taught us, is that although we may have a fair idea of our income in the coming year it would be sensible to leave some leeway so that we don't fall foul of FFP.

I would be happy with two freebie strikers if they did the job. I don't understand this obsession with how much we spend as long as Jokanovic gets the players he wants.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Roberty on August 30, 2016, 12:36:51 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 30, 2016, 10:39:54 AM
Quote from: MJG on August 30, 2016, 10:14:56 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 29, 2016, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 29, 2016, 12:51:20 PM
I'll add Statto a loss is exactly what you want us to have anyway.... Right up to the limit,  or at least a ?1 below the maximum ffp limit... Isn't that right?

when the chairman said "whatever it takes" that was my expectation yes

not only the loss but also the other element of FFP, the chairman's cash injection, i expceted us to max that out too
The problem of course with doing that now is that it gives you nowhere to go in january when even if we are doing well you would look to improve the squad in some ways.
better to leave yourself some room without using ALL the money this window.

yes fair enough i do sympathise with that

look, we've argued all summer about how much we should be spending and i'm not going to restart that lest someone will jump in and say i don't know the intricacies of our finances, spending a lot doesn't necessarily get you quality etc etc... and i sympathise with all that as well

bottom line is i'd just like to have seen a level of spending this summer that made me think, on balance, sticking a finger in the air, some of it probably came from Khan rather than our own revenue

there's an assumption on here that khan is putting money in each year and i think the realistion he's not doing that is very significant

The amount of the loss we can make and the money put in by Khan are the same thing.

The club is allowed to make a loss and the loss can be picked up by the owner.

The FFP rules are there to stop an owner putting in endless amounts of money to finance ever larger losses

The owner can though invest into the facilities and buildings without limit - so the investment into Motspur Park can be as much as he wants to spend and if the Riverside is eventually developed he can also spend as much as he likes on that.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: bill taylors apprentice on August 31, 2016, 09:44:59 AM
One good striker who complements whats been done so far !

Not ideal but that will do to help maintain our current position until January.

Then the window can be described as good to very good, but if no worthwhile striker comes in then the jobs not finished and those involved  will be negligent.

Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Carborundum on August 31, 2016, 11:59:18 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 30, 2016, 12:27:48 PM
Quote from: NogoodBoyo on August 30, 2016, 11:44:00 AM
Are investments on players classified as capital investments applied to the balance sheet, or operating expenses on the P&L?
Nogood "asking Statto, MJG, accountants, other financial types out there or Macintosh, isit" Boyo

intangible assets on the balance sheet
amortization of existing players go in p&l
i think sales for more than book value also go in p&l (eg roberts)
that's my understanding but not an accountant so my be wrong (particularly the last part)
Sounds about right.  Sales for less than book value go as losses in the P&L too.
Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: Twig on August 31, 2016, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on August 31, 2016, 11:59:18 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 30, 2016, 12:27:48 PM
Quote from: NogoodBoyo on August 30, 2016, 11:44:00 AM
Are investments on players classified as capital investments applied to the balance sheet, or operating expenses on the P&L?
Nogood "asking Statto, MJG, accountants, other financial types out there or Macintosh, isit" Boyo

intangible assets on the balance sheet
amortization of existing players go in p&l
i think sales for more than book value also go in p&l (eg roberts)
that's my understanding but not an accountant so my be wrong (particularly the last part)
Sounds about right.  Sales for less than book value go as losses in the P&L too.

Since one or two people are talking sense rather than uninformed opinion. Can I ask over how many years the player capex is amortized?  Does the club have flexibility over this or is the period defined under FFP?

Title: Re: mr khan: whatever it takes
Post by: MJG on August 31, 2016, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 31, 2016, 01:51:02 PM
Quote from: Twig on August 31, 2016, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on August 31, 2016, 11:59:18 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 30, 2016, 12:27:48 PM
Quote from: NogoodBoyo on August 30, 2016, 11:44:00 AM
Are investments on players classified as capital investments applied to the balance sheet, or operating expenses on the P&L?
Nogood "asking Statto, MJG, accountants, other financial types out there or Macintosh, isit" Boyo

intangible assets on the balance sheet
amortization of existing players go in p&l
i think sales for more than book value also go in p&l (eg roberts)
that's my understanding but not an accountant so my be wrong (particularly the last part)
Sounds about right.  Sales for less than book value go as losses in the P&L too.

Since one or two people are talking sense rather than uninformed opinion. Can I ask over how many years the player capex is amortized?  Does the club have flexibility over this or is the period defined under FFP?



MJG knows more about this and has posted on it before

in the regular accounts i'm pretty sure it amortizes over the term of the contract

but for the accounts submitted to the football league under FFP i wouldn't be surprised if there are different & more specific rules. as i've said before it's all very opaque. the full ffp rules should be published. 
A players value and cost to a team is spread over the term of a contract. That would be his transfer plus wages.
So for example player A cost £5M and his wages were £1m a year on a five year contract.
His paper value in Year 1 is £10M
Year 2 £8M
Year 3 £6M
Year 4 £4M
Year 5 £2M

Thats how you would see it in official accounts as assets.

But my understanding is that FFP submitted accounts does not allow the spread of Fees to be calculated like this. But for once me and Statto agree, the rules are very vague and hard to actually find the real information clubs have to give to the league.