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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: sarnian on February 12, 2019, 08:11:50 PM

Title: Johansen og
Post by: sarnian on February 12, 2019, 08:11:50 PM
Didn't take Stefan Jonansen long to make his mark at West Brom. Booked Saturday and an og tonight
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Fulhamfan666 on February 12, 2019, 08:21:34 PM
ouch
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: @jolslover on February 12, 2019, 08:59:37 PM
Surely this is incorrect? If we started him and Mcdonald instead of Seri and Anguissa then we would be in the top 4 now ??? They did well last season ??
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Matt10 on February 13, 2019, 12:55:10 AM
Some context that OG was more so a freak bang-bang play where Yates missed horribly off target and Johansen's foot just happened to be there.

Johansen has cemented himself as the playmaker for the baggies already. Everything circulates through him in that familiar 4-3-3, where he goes box to box at the LCM spot.
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: The Rock on February 13, 2019, 01:31:43 AM
Someone should give him a shot in the PL someday.

All the other players we have got a participation medal like Anguissa and Fosu Mensah etc.

I think he'd be average in the PL, but that's better than what we've got.

Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: hovewhite on February 13, 2019, 09:30:18 AM
Quote from: The Rock on February 13, 2019, 01:31:43 AM
Someone should give him a shot in the PL someday.

All the other players we have got a participation medal like Anguissa and Fosu Mensah etc.

I think he'd be average in the PL, but that's better than what we've got.


I'd take average any day!
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Twig on February 13, 2019, 09:34:44 AM
Why is there a thread crowing about a (very unlucky)  Stef Jo OG?  He was a very decent servant to our club and I, for one, wish him all the best at WBA.
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Riverside on February 13, 2019, 09:46:32 AM
Just a loan to WBA.

I also would like him to come back and play for us in the Championship - where he certainly has the quality needed

But I think he is near the end of his contract and will be gone in the summer


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Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Statto on February 13, 2019, 09:49:56 AM
Quote from: Riverside on February 13, 2019, 09:46:32 AM
But I think he is near the end of his contract and will be gone in the summer

We have an option to extend to 2020 (same situation with Odoi I believe)

My hope is we hold on to Cairney, Seri and Anguissa and can release Johansen to get first team football elsewhere
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Sgt Fulham on February 13, 2019, 10:25:48 AM
I'd be gutted if we let StefJo go for next season. People don't seem to realise how important he was in our two good seasons. Certainly our star player at the start of last season when TC was injured, scoring a few crucial goals (QPR away for example).
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: toshes mate on February 13, 2019, 10:41:49 AM
Quote from: Twig on February 13, 2019, 09:34:44 AM
Why is there a thread crowing about a (very unlucky)  Stef Jo OG?  He was a very decent servant to our club and I, for one, wish him all the best at WBA.
Well said, Twig.

I'd also like the other SJ back at CC (that makes two) since he is an excellent midfielder at Championship level and may, in the PL, have worked out much better in a good and well balanced squad this season.  So many of last year's team didn't get the best of deals thanks to the squalid waste of money last summer.   Whether he stays at WBA or returns here I wish him all the very best because he is, at his best, a very good footballer.
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: SuffolkWhite on February 13, 2019, 10:42:27 AM
Interestingly a certain Cardiff manager rates him, and cant understand why he was not playing for Fulham!
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: KJS on February 13, 2019, 10:44:39 AM
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on February 13, 2019, 10:42:27 AM
Interestingly a certain Cardiff manager rates him, and cant understand why he was not playing for Fulham!

Who gives a toss what Colin thinks!!!???
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: The Old Count on February 13, 2019, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: Twig on February 13, 2019, 09:34:44 AM
Why is there a thread crowing about a (very unlucky)  Stef Jo OG?  He was a very decent servant to our club and I, for one, wish him all the best at WBA.

Well said Twig.  A churlish comment. I think people post on here trying to be amusing without thinking it through.
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: SuffolkWhite on February 13, 2019, 10:52:16 AM
I also rate SJ and think if we had stuck with most of the team that got us up we would be in a better position, hindsight maybe.

I dislike Colin also, but his team are doing better than ours and he has had faith with the bulk of that team that got them promoted!
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Two Ton Ted on February 13, 2019, 11:02:20 AM
Johansen is out of contract in due so I'm imagine we've seen the last of him in a Fulham shirt.

I was a huge fan of his in the Championship but what I've seen of him this season he's not top flight material, however would still be a useful squad member IMO.
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: snarks on February 13, 2019, 11:58:29 AM
I do find it odd when people say he is not top flight material or not good enough. He really has not been given any serious game time (he only started 4) and played 411 minutes in his 12 appearances.

I still think with a good run in the side as a box to box midfielder as he played for the last 2 seasons he would have been OK, not a standout, but certainly OK. I also think that is what the midfield is really missing, TC and Seri are great players, but not together, as there is no-one to do the Donkey work, and you need a defensive CM (Chambers, Anguissa, KMac type) in our line up. SteffJo would fill that nicely but one of TC or Seri would have to be dropped.


Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: KJS on February 13, 2019, 12:19:09 PM
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on February 13, 2019, 10:52:16 AM
I also rate SJ and think if we had stuck with most of the team that got us up we would be in a better position, hindsight maybe.

I dislike Colin also, but his team are doing better than ours and he has had faith with the bulk of that team that got them promoted!

He is still a spanner and also I don't believe his team are actually safe yet either??
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Sting of the North on February 13, 2019, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: snarks on February 13, 2019, 11:58:29 AM
I do find it odd when people say he is not top flight material or not good enough. He really has not been given any serious game time (he only started 4) and played 411 minutes in his 12 appearances.

I still think with a good run in the side as a box to box midfielder as he played for the last 2 seasons he would have been OK, not a standout, but certainly OK. I also think that is what the midfield is really missing, TC and Seri are great players, but not together, as there is no-one to do the Donkey work, and you need a defensive CM (Chambers, Anguissa, KMac type) in our line up. SteffJo would fill that nicely but one of TC or Seri would have to be dropped.

Why is it you think that TC and Seri are not good together? Personally I think that StefJo is a good player, and probably worthy of a squad place. However, I also think that Seri is far superior to him. They are not the same type of player, but can fill the same spot in a 3 man midfield with TC and a defensive midfielder. Unfortunately however we have not really tried that enough this season. In my opinion.
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: HV71 on February 13, 2019, 12:34:06 PM
Very well said Twig - I believe we will need him next season. As for Anguissa - I haven't given up on him as there is certainly skill and talent there. However, his footballing brain seems muddled to say the least, and we will just have to see whether anyone can coach him  into the player he needs to be. Short of a labotomy this may take some time and we desperately need to hit the ground running next season so I wouldn't want to put all my hopes into him coming good
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Sting of the North on February 13, 2019, 02:23:45 PM
Quote from: HV71 on February 13, 2019, 12:34:06 PM
Very well said Twig - I believe we will need him next season. As for Anguissa - I haven't given up on him as there is certainly skill and talent there. However, his footballing brain seems muddled to say the least, and we will just have to see whether anyone can coach him  into the player he needs to be. Short of a labotomy this may take some time and we desperately need to hit the ground running next season so I wouldn't want to put all my hopes into him coming good

Kind of a harsh assessment of Anguissa's football brain I believe, given that we have only seen him playing a handful of times in a completely dysfunctional team.
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: snarks on February 13, 2019, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 13, 2019, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: snarks on February 13, 2019, 11:58:29 AM
I do find it odd when people say he is not top flight material or not good enough. He really has not been given any serious game time (he only started 4) and played 411 minutes in his 12 appearances.

I still think with a good run in the side as a box to box midfielder as he played for the last 2 seasons he would have been OK, not a standout, but certainly OK. I also think that is what the midfield is really missing, TC and Seri are great players, but not together, as there is no-one to do the Donkey work, and you need a defensive CM (Chambers, Anguissa, KMac type) in our line up. SteffJo would fill that nicely but one of TC or Seri would have to be dropped.

Why is it you think that TC and Seri are not good together? Personally I think that StefJo is a good player, and probably worthy of a squad place. However, I also think that Seri is far superior to him. They are not the same type of player, but can fill the same spot in a 3 man midfield with TC and a defensive midfielder. Unfortunately however we have not really tried that enough this season. In my opinion.

I just haven't seen it, if you play a 3 man midfield, I think you need at holding player, a gopher and a skill player who can pass and move and dictate play. TC and Seri are both the dictate play type, you could probably play them both in a 4-1-4-1 formation, but not in a 4-3-3, 5-4-1 or 4-4-2 all of which we play. TC is pushed wide and marginalised so we don't see him at his best and seri doesn't have the motor to go box to box hence we don't see him at his best either. It's a shame but that's my view.
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Matt10 on February 13, 2019, 06:40:19 PM
Quote from: snarks on February 13, 2019, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 13, 2019, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: snarks on February 13, 2019, 11:58:29 AM
I do find it odd when people say he is not top flight material or not good enough. He really has not been given any serious game time (he only started 4) and played 411 minutes in his 12 appearances.

I still think with a good run in the side as a box to box midfielder as he played for the last 2 seasons he would have been OK, not a standout, but certainly OK. I also think that is what the midfield is really missing, TC and Seri are great players, but not together, as there is no-one to do the Donkey work, and you need a defensive CM (Chambers, Anguissa, KMac type) in our line up. SteffJo would fill that nicely but one of TC or Seri would have to be dropped.

Why is it you think that TC and Seri are not good together? Personally I think that StefJo is a good player, and probably worthy of a squad place. However, I also think that Seri is far superior to him. They are not the same type of player, but can fill the same spot in a 3 man midfield with TC and a defensive midfielder. Unfortunately however we have not really tried that enough this season. In my opinion.

I just haven't seen it, if you play a 3 man midfield, I think you need at holding player, a gopher and a skill player who can pass and move and dictate play. TC and Seri are both the dictate play type, you could probably play them both in a 4-1-4-1 formation, but not in a 4-3-3, 5-4-1 or 4-4-2 all of which we play. TC is pushed wide and marginalised so we don't see him at his best and seri doesn't have the motor to go box to box hence we don't see him at his best either. It's a shame but that's my view.

I tend to agree, to a point here. I do think a 4-3-3 wouldn't be out of the ordinary, however, it is most likely to have growing pains. Essentially, Seri replaces Johansen on the LCM, while the CM (CDM) is Chambers, and Cairney is RCM. Seri has a reputation for being the playmaker, but he's not really. He circulates the ball as simple as possible. He is much more aggressive than how he started this season defensively as well, so in that aspect, he's similar to StefJo - but he plays the percentages unlike Johansen who will take chances to penetrate a defence with through balls or long balls into space. Chambers is box-to-box, which is different than Kmac, so we could get caught upfield, meaning Seri drops back (again, unlike Johansen). Cairney would need to stay higher, and would find himself in the box more often than Seri or Chambers.

Overall, the 3 in the static 4-3-3 wouldn't be the same as Slavisa's 4-3-3, and it would require a lot of work to know who goes where in defence-transition-attack. I'd love to see what we saw for the last 12 minutes at Burnley, but that may have been a one-off. Surprised we didn't score a late equalizer after dominating their goal in that late stretch.   
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Sting of the North on February 13, 2019, 10:16:31 PM
I fail to see why Seri can't do a job in a 433. Not the same player as Johansen, for good and bad. Johansen is a hit or miss player, whereas Seri is more assured on the ball. Both seem to work with TC however because they are all smart players. If you think that TC and Seri are too similar you have not really understood their strengths at all. In my opinion.

If you would have switched Johansen for Seri last year I believe that we would have had automatic promotion.
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: snarks on February 14, 2019, 12:42:46 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 13, 2019, 10:16:31 PM
I fail to see why Seri can't do a job in a 433. Not the same player as Johansen, for good and bad. Johansen is a hit or miss player, whereas Seri is more assured on the ball. Both seem to work with TC however because they are all smart players. If you think that TC and Seri are too similar you have not really understood their strengths at all. In my opinion.

If you would have switched Johansen for Seri last year I believe that we would have had automatic promotion.

No I don't think they are too similar, I think they way they are playing/being asked to play is wrong and they are both trying to be the linchpin in a similar way, Matt has it right in that Seri circulates the ball, but is playing in a more defensive role, I think it would work with TC and Seri in a midfield 4 with one of Chambers/Anguissa/Kmac behind them.  In a 3 it isn't or hasn't worked.

So my Line up would be

Rico

Christie/Odoi  Mawson/Chambers  MLM  Bryan

Chambers/Anguissa/KMac

Babel  TC  Seri  Sess

Mitro
Title: Re: Johansen og
Post by: Two Ton Ted on February 14, 2019, 12:52:01 PM
I see Seri in the same role as Murphy - gets given the ball by Etuhu (Chambers/Macdonald), and then uses it.

Frankly the squad we have is not suited to 4-3-3. Jokanovic played a 4-1-3-1, but it's hard to accommodate Seri in that formation.

Ranieri's been using a 4-3-3 with no the full backs providing the width, but without a MacDonald type dropping in when the full backs attack, we've been all over the shop.

A 4-2-3-1 with the players we have might work, but it's a bit late for that now.