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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Riversider on April 17, 2019, 03:28:30 PM

Title: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Riversider on April 17, 2019, 03:28:30 PM
What ever happens in our next two or three games I really hope that we wait until the summer before making a decision on our next manager, it won't hurt to wait 3 weeks before making an announcement,  , those 3 weeks will give the club an opportunity to make a calm and reasoned decision at a time when the pressure is off,
Can't help but feel that Man U have been far to hasty in giving OGS the job full time, why couldn't that decision have been made in the summer , it's starting to look like a costly mistake.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: ALG01 on April 17, 2019, 03:45:48 PM
Quote from: Riversider on April 17, 2019, 03:28:30 PM
What ever happens in our next two or three games I really hope that we wait until the summer before making a decision on our next manager, it won't hurt to wait 3 weeks before making an announcement,  , those 3 weeks will give the club an opportunity to make a calm and reasoned decision at a time when the pressure is off,
Can't help but feel that Man U have been far to hasty in giving OGS the job full time, why couldn't that decision have been made in the summer , it's starting to look like a costly mistake.

It is absolutely my opinion as well. I think it was an eror to appoint the man so soon and if it is to be Parker give it a few days just to reflect or see if there is a better candidate.

I am not saying yeah or neigh it is rather wait till the season is over (but not too long).
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Andy S on April 17, 2019, 03:53:52 PM
I believe Parker is a caretaker and that is all. With the kind of money the Khan's have they can appoint the best. I'm not saying anything against Parker but he does lack experience at the moment. He can then move out of the limelight and learn his trade in the right way
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Lighthouse on April 17, 2019, 04:04:15 PM
The difference is that Man Utd had a really successful caretaker boss and decided to give him the job. Fulham have a caretaker boss who hasn't been successful. Although many players have come out to support him. I have mentioned before that we need or would like some cohesion in a season of upheaval. But bringing in an experienced manager is no guarantee of anything anyway. Not sure United made a mistake. In the short term it may have been mixed but in the long term it may well work.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: BigbadBillyMcKinley on April 17, 2019, 04:17:21 PM
Yeah, moving them from well out of the top four, to fighting for a champions league place is terrible.

Have you seen the squad he has? Smalling is their best defender, and that's not the best thing in the world. They have a player that's on £500k a week, who seems to have forgotten how to play football. And, to be fair to United, they faced probably the best team outside of Man City and Liverpool in Europe, with arguably the best player of all time (according to the media, not to me!!)
If that's a costly mistake, the let's sign him up now.

But, back to the point in question; we definitely need a manager with experience of getting a smaller team out of the lower league, with pittance to spend. Doesn't need to be from England either. Similar to the Ajax bloke. Bring through the youngsters we have at our disposal, instead of wasting millions on Unknown's.
Or, get Scott to do exactly that. We have some serious talent in the academy, why not use it.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: snarks on April 17, 2019, 04:25:14 PM
The improvement in play under SP is clear for anyone to see. The team is more cohesive, better organised and seemingly fitter.

I don't care about experience, everyone has to start somewhere, and why not SP at Fulham? OGS at Man U is a strange one, he did nothing at Cardiff the first time, went to Norway and then back to Man U, he really has no experience worthy of the name, and walks in to a big 6 club, and one of the richest in Europe. He's done OK although the teams shortcomings (which Jose repeated often about CB's) is still the main issue, but then Giggs did OK as caretaker there too.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Riversider on April 17, 2019, 04:55:08 PM
Kenny Jackett at Pompey has really impressed me this season with what he has done at Pompey, you would struggle to find more experience in the game, wouldn't mind seeing him join us in the summer in some capacity to work with Parker and his team, all boxes then ticked for me.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: hovewhite on April 17, 2019, 05:03:57 PM
Can you trust the owner to recruit from outside of the club,and will that someone buy into TKs strategy and take whoever comes in.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: AnOldBrownie on April 17, 2019, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: Riversider on April 17, 2019, 03:28:30 PM
What ever happens in our next two or three games I really hope that we wait until the summer before making a decision on our next manager, it won't hurt to wait 3 weeks before making an announcement,  , those 3 weeks will give the club an opportunity to make a calm and reasoned decision at a time when the pressure is off,
Can't help but feel that Man U have been far to hasty in giving OGS the job full time, why couldn't that decision have been made in the summer , it's starting to look like a costly mistake.

They couldn't wait because contract dealings and conversations are going on RIGHT NOW.   If a transfer target doesn't know who the manager is going to be what's the likelyhood of that player coming to the team?

It wasn't too soon.  ManU is simply on a run of poor form.   It happened to Spurs a month ago.  It happens.

If United knew who they wanted as manager (they probably had an idea they wanted Oli anyway) why wait?  So they could second guess themselves?   So they could get another big name manager and still only be a top 6 side like they've been the past 5 seasons?

Watching how things play out means you don't have a plan and your guessing/reacting.





Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: davew on April 17, 2019, 05:40:38 PM
Quote from: Riversider on April 17, 2019, 03:28:30 PM
What ever happens in our next two or three games I really hope that we wait until the summer before making a decision on our next manager, it won't hurt to wait 3 weeks before making an announcement,  , those 3 weeks will give the club an opportunity to make a calm and reasoned decision at a time when the pressure is off,
Can't help but feel that Man U have been far to hasty in giving OGS the job full time, why couldn't that decision have been made in the summer , it's starting to look like a costly mistake.
Surely the club won't be irresponsible or short sighted enough to appoint any manager before the end of the season, the next couple of games shouldn't in any way influence their decision to appoint SP, not appoint him maybe?
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: davew on April 17, 2019, 05:43:14 PM
Quote from: hovewhite on April 17, 2019, 05:03:57 PM
Can you trust the owner to recruit from outside of the club,and will that someone buy into TKs strategy and take whoever comes in.
Yes but maybe not somebody who is suitable and probably in answer to the 2nd question, easy money for somebody and also a short period of employment! I would do it!!
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Matt10 on April 17, 2019, 09:19:37 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on April 17, 2019, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: Riversider on April 17, 2019, 03:28:30 PM
What ever happens in our next two or three games I really hope that we wait until the summer before making a decision on our next manager, it won't hurt to wait 3 weeks before making an announcement,  , those 3 weeks will give the club an opportunity to make a calm and reasoned decision at a time when the pressure is off,
Can't help but feel that Man U have been far to hasty in giving OGS the job full time, why couldn't that decision have been made in the summer , it's starting to look like a costly mistake.

They couldn't wait because contract dealings and conversations are going on RIGHT NOW.   If a transfer target doesn't know who the manager is going to be what's the likelyhood of that player coming to the team?

It wasn't too soon.  ManU is simply on a run of poor form.   It happened to Spurs a month ago.  It happens.

If United knew who they wanted as manager (they probably had an idea they wanted Oli anyway) why wait?  So they could second guess themselves?   So they could get another big name manager and still only be a top 6 side like they've been the past 5 seasons?

Watching how things play out means you don't have a plan and your guessing/reacting.

Really well said.

I think Parker could attract a decent amount of players, especially considering he has the backing of the current crop, not to mention the likes of Sir AF to name a few.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: The Rational Fan on April 17, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
IMO, Scott Parker failed under Jokavoic and failed Raneri, but was a good caretaker manager. For me, that is the profile of someone that deserves another chance at the number two role again under a different manager.

As for getting Sit Alex Ferguson's backing, I consider that a bad thing given Sir Alex backing David Moyes.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Mince n Tatties on April 18, 2019, 05:59:24 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 17, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
IMO, Scott Parker failed under Jokavoic and failed Raneri, but was a good caretaker manager. For me, that is the profile of someone that deserves another chance at the number two role again under a different manager.

As for getting Sit Alex Ferguson's backing, I consider that a bad thing given Sir Alex backing David Moyes.

When Fergie backed Moyes as his successor he was doing a good job at Everton,and all the football family supported it that he was the man to take over from Sir Alex,sometimes it doesn't work out does it?
That don't don't make Sir Alex a bad judge.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: colinwhite on April 18, 2019, 07:42:00 AM
If Scott can put a run of wins together then he is going to be nailed on. The "same mistake as Man utd " doesnt make any sense to me. OGS has done an incredible job and made UTd a serious team again.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Riversider on April 18, 2019, 07:51:28 AM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 18, 2019, 07:42:00 AM
If Scott can put a run of wins together then he is going to be nailed on. The "same mistake as Man utd " doesnt make any sense to me. OGS has done an incredible job and made UTd a serious team again.

They are currently on their worst run for 18 years ! Hardly doing an "incredible " job.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: I Ronic on April 18, 2019, 08:01:34 AM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 18, 2019, 07:42:00 AM
If Scott can put a run of wins together then he is going to be nailed on. The "same mistake as Man utd " doesnt make any sense to me. OGS has done an incredible job and made UTd a serious team again.

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As mentioned before he seems to be getting more from the players. Hopefully that's because of his input. Any delay in appointing a manager puts us back into the same situation as last season where decisions and transfers are delayed. 
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Mince n Tatties on April 18, 2019, 08:27:51 AM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 18, 2019, 07:42:00 AM
If Scott can put a run of wins together then he is going to be nailed on. The "same mistake as Man utd " doesnt make any sense to me. OGS has done an incredible job and made UTd a serious team again.

True in a sense,but I think a lot of it is down to the players not playing for Jose.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Mickeyboro on April 18, 2019, 08:41:44 AM
Do we really want to start again at Xmas? Parker is the new Kit... Enough said.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: snarks on April 18, 2019, 08:42:29 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 17, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
IMO, Scott Parker failed under Jokavoic and failed Raneri, but was a good caretaker manager. For me, that is the profile of someone that deserves another chance at the number two role again under a different manager.

As for getting Sit Alex Ferguson's backing, I consider that a bad thing given Sir Alex backing David Moyes.

Failed under Jokanovic and failed Raneri - what???

I really don't understand that, there is absolutely no basis for that statement unless you are part of the coaching or playing staff at the club.

Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: bog on April 18, 2019, 08:49:28 AM
This time next year OGS will have been replaced. On the way home Saturday there was some well informed clown who rang in Rad 5 to tell the world that OGS is the best manager in that pl;ace....right.  :doh:

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Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Mince n Tatties on April 18, 2019, 08:56:00 AM
Quote from: bog on April 18, 2019, 08:49:28 AM
This time next year OGS will have been replaced. On the way home Saturday there was some well informed clown who rang in Rad 5 to tell the world that OGS is the best manager in that pl;ace....right.  :doh:

092.gif

Yes being hyped up by all and sundry,as I've already said the players had downed tools for Jose,as soon as he left they started playing...
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Sting of the North on April 18, 2019, 09:05:40 AM
Quote from: snarks on April 18, 2019, 08:42:29 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on April 17, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
IMO, Scott Parker failed under Jokavoic and failed Raneri, but was a good caretaker manager. For me, that is the profile of someone that deserves another chance at the number two role again under a different manager.

As for getting Sit Alex Ferguson's backing, I consider that a bad thing given Sir Alex backing David Moyes.

Failed under Jokanovic and failed Raneri - what???

I really don't understand that, there is absolutely no basis for that statement unless you are part of the coaching or playing staff at the club.

This is basically the same as every other discussion on here though, like about Kamara, or the two (three?) tick system, or the attitude of certain players, or if Schürrle actually had a virus etc. We don't know unless we have more inside information, which at least the very majority of us don't. So, it is almost always a level of uncertainty in our assessments, which is why they are opinions with a various level facts and/or additional information to back up said opinion.
   
In the case at hand, if you mean that we cannot properly assess the causation between the results of the team and Parker's involvement, then I agree. If you look at the correlation however, we have a very, very poor record overall with Parker as part of the coaching team. So, there could be said to be a basis for the statement that Parker has so far failed in the sense that we have been ever unsuccessful with him involved. That is not the same as stating that this is without a doubt because of Parker, since there can be many other explanations as well.

I don't however understand the Rational Fans' reasoning why two consecutive failings as an assistant, followed by being a "good caretaker manager" should lead to the conclusion that he should go back to what he failed at instead of staying on in his alleged more successful role.

Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Riversider on April 21, 2019, 04:41:30 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 18, 2019, 07:42:00 AM
If Scott can put a run of wins together then he is going to be nailed on. The "same mistake as Man utd " doesnt make any sense to me. OGS has done an incredible job and made UTd a serious team again.

If they lose to City in midweek he will be lucky to still be in charge come August, starting to look very much out of his depth.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Lyle from Hangeland on April 21, 2019, 05:09:20 PM
There are probably more than a dozen managers or potential managers (available or willing to come to Fulham) who could guide Fulham back up next year. Scott Parker is probably one of them, so might as well stick with him. I think they've already decided this as they let him hire away the Tottenham youth coach. That said, not a single one of them (Scott included) is a guarantee FFC will go back up. It is what it is, but chopping and changing just makes FFC like any other yo-yo club
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: AnOldBrownie on April 21, 2019, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: Riversider on April 21, 2019, 04:41:30 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 18, 2019, 07:42:00 AM
If Scott can put a run of wins together then he is going to be nailed on. The "same mistake as Man utd " doesnt make any sense to me. OGS has done an incredible job and made UTd a serious team again.

If they lose to City in midweek he will be lucky to still be in charge come August, starting to look very much out of his depth.

They've had a lot of games, missed two of their players in most their recent losses (Herrera, Luke Shaw) and have a striker that can't play Olley's brand of football.


Yet they are still better off right now than they were when Jose Mourinho, one of the best, most experienced managers in the world was running the team.

All the negativity and United are still only 3 points off 3rd place and 2 points off 4th.


Olly will be manager next season and he'll have a chance to replace at least two dead wood players in the side over the summer.

Let's talk about the Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal managers who have way more experience yet in the same window as Olly's hiring they haven't done better than that caretaker manager.    Let's just selectively overlook that.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Statto on April 21, 2019, 07:05:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on April 21, 2019, 06:24:58 PM
Yet they are still better off right now than they were when Jose Mourinho, one of the best, most experienced managers in the world was running the team.

All the negativity and United are still only 3 points off 3rd place and 2 points off 4th.

Mourinho was sacked, so irrespective of his experience, Solskjaer's objective was to do a lot better. As it stands they're in the the same position, further from the top two and out of both cups, and in terrible form. Any improvement has been short-lived, and at the end of the season the overall change will likely look marginal or even non-existent.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: AnOldBrownie on April 21, 2019, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 21, 2019, 07:05:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on April 21, 2019, 06:24:58 PM
Yet they are still better off right now than they were when Jose Mourinho, one of the best, most experienced managers in the world was running the team.

All the negativity and United are still only 3 points off 3rd place and 2 points off 4th.

Mourinho was sacked, so irrespective of his experience, Solskjaer's objective was to do a lot better. As it stands they're in the the same position, further from the top two and out of both cups, and in terrible form. Any improvement has been short-lived, and at the end of the season the overall change will likely look marginal or even non-existent.

They were 8th...they currently sit at 6th...much better goal differential even though they gave up 4 today...cover more ground than they did under Jose by a LOT...and at least try to play attractive football.

Again...the league was the goal...but the players are the same players that covered the least amount of yardage in the EPL last season.  The same players that didn't press last season even against poorer sides, and the team that lost to HUDDERSFIELD.

Regardless of the next three matches, LONG TERM...United are better off with Olly.

Week 17 of this season.

United were
13 points behind Spurs
11 points behind Chelsea
8 points behind Arsenal
with an asshole for a manager

They are better off today even though they're form is shite.  Anyone expecting a huge turnaround with the same group of players would have been naive.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Statto on April 21, 2019, 07:45:08 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on April 21, 2019, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: Statto on April 21, 2019, 07:05:09 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on April 21, 2019, 06:24:58 PM
Yet they are still better off right now than they were when Jose Mourinho, one of the best, most experienced managers in the world was running the team.

All the negativity and United are still only 3 points off 3rd place and 2 points off 4th.

Mourinho was sacked, so irrespective of his experience, Solskjaer's objective was to do a lot better. As it stands they're in the the same position, further from the top two and out of both cups, and in terrible form. Any improvement has been short-lived, and at the end of the season the overall change will likely look marginal or even non-existent.

They were 8th...they currently sit at 6th...much better goal differential even though they gave up 4 today...cover more ground than they did under Jose by a LOT...and at least try to play attractive football.

Again...the league was the goal...but the players are the same players that covered the least amount of yardage in the EPL last season.  The same players that didn't press last season even against poorer sides, and the team that lost to HUDDERSFIELD.

Regardless of the next three matches, LONG TERM...United are better off with Olly.

Week 17 of this season.

United were
13 points behind Spurs
11 points behind Chelsea
8 points behind Arsenal
with an asshole for a manager

They are better off today even though they're form is shite.  Anyone expecting a huge turnaround with the same group of players would have been naive.

No, they were 6th when he was sacked.

The rest of your post is largely subjective ("an asshole for a manager") and conjecture ("LONG TERM...") so whilst I don't agree, I don't see that arguing any further will resolve much.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Bracken White on April 21, 2019, 08:19:34 PM
A lot of unnecessary overthinking here. Blessed by some great football last season & we've seen a return of it under SP, Stuart Gray & Matt Wells. I really don't hold with this 'experienced Championshjp Manager' myth - if our results & performances continue, it's a no brainer, for me.
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: Riversider on May 12, 2019, 05:39:04 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 18, 2019, 07:42:00 AM
If Scott can put a run of wins together then he is going to be nailed on. The "same mistake as Man utd " doesnt make any sense to me. OGS has done an incredible job and made UTd a serious team again.

Oh dear, that "incredible job" not looking so incredible now is it ? 32 points behind City, will he still be there in August ?
Title: Re: Let's not make the same mistake as Man Utd
Post by: AnOldBrownie on May 12, 2019, 05:41:43 PM
Quote from: Riversider on May 12, 2019, 05:39:04 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on April 18, 2019, 07:42:00 AM
If Scott can put a run of wins together then he is going to be nailed on. The "same mistake as Man utd " doesnt make any sense to me. OGS has done an incredible job and made UTd a serious team again.

Oh dear, that "incredible job" not looking so incredible now is it ? 32 points behind City, will he still be there in August ?

Hindsight.

It came crashing down in Manchester.   Let's pray, as Fulham fans, that it doesn't happen to Scott.

Different circumstances...MUCH different teams.