Reading through a few of the latest threads,I find that certain posters think all our problems in defence lay at his door,and he must be replaced.
Peoples views differ of course, Cyrus will be fine at RB,he is a good Championship player and imo the best in that position for us. 049:gif
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Christie will not be ok at right back, his ability is poor and atitude are wrong. Back up at best assuming nobody wants him on loan.
I do not lay our defence problems all on Christie, he was just one of them. Playing Sessegnon as a full back and a lack of a good CB were all in the mix but Christie stood out as very poor in defence and he is not a wing back because he can't cross a good ball.
Quote from: Dodger53 on July 11, 2019, 09:33:13 AM
Christie will not be ok at right back, his ability is poor and atitude are wrong. Back up at best assuming nobody wants him on loan.
I do not lay our defence problems all on Christie, he was just one of them. Playing Sessegnon as a full back and a lack of a good CB were all in the mix but Christie stood out as very poor in defence and he is not a wing back because he can't cross a good ball.
On what grounds do you come to the conclusion that he has a bad attitude?
I like Christie, always shows for the ball
and has a lot of possession.
And likes to create going forward.
Switches of though when defending.
But like his attitude.
Quote from: Dodger53 on July 11, 2019, 09:33:13 AM
Christie will not be ok at right back, his ability is poor and atitude are wrong. Back up at best assuming nobody wants him on loan.
I do not lay our defence problems all on Christie, he was just one of them. Playing Sessegnon as a full back and a lack of a good CB were all in the mix but Christie stood out as very poor in defence and he is not a wing back because he can't cross a good ball.
Who in the last few seasons for us has been able to cross a ball?
I'm not into stats but I bet were right at the bottom of crossing a ball from dead ball situation.
The best players still at the club last season, according to whoscored, are Fabri, Christie, MLM, Bryan, Anguissa and Mitrovoic (GK, RB, CB, LB, CM and CF), and we know Betts, Ream, McDonald, Johasen and Cairney can deliver in the Championship (GK, CB, DM, CM and AM).
So surely, what we desperately need are a RW and LW (or one plus Sessegnon), a strong bench to come on late in games (e.g. Kamara) and reserves in every position we don't have two players.
Quote from: Dodger53 on July 11, 2019, 09:33:13 AM
Christie will not be ok at right back, his ability is poor and atitude are wrong. Back up at best assuming nobody wants him on loan.
I do not lay our defence problems all on Christie, he was just one of them. Playing Sessegnon as a full back and a lack of a good CB were all in the mix but Christie stood out as very poor in defence and he is not a wing back because he can't cross a good ball.
I'm arguably one of Christie's biggest critics but the one thing i'd never fault him on is attitude. He's terrific on and off the field with his work ethic and is a thoroughly likeable person, hence why it pains me that I don't think he's quite up to it. I have to say, someone creating a Christie pro thread every week is tiresome. (as is a negative one dedicated to him) We get it, some like him (with merit) and some dislike him (with merit), the games about opinions and he seems to be one we disagree on but its starting to feel like :dead horse: when we just go to and fro.
The fairest I can be to him, which I've stated, many a time, is, with form he's a top 6 RB in championship, without form, midtable at best. He was woeful last season at EPL level having been thrown in deep end, and I wasn't overly impressed with his overall contributions in our promotion season but he did show glimpses of quality, eg Bristol assist to Mitro was a lovely pass. We want to win this division and I'm not totally sold he's the answer, and if he reaches potential I'm not granting him, and we do go up with him, he'll be one of the first we need to replace in EPL.
Agree he has a great attitude, and I do think he's a good Championship player.
I remember at the great home win v Brighton, his surges down the right wing, finding space to receive a ball, then running down the wing and crossing into the box.
I really like him as a player - the right attitude means a lot, for a start.
Quote from: ffcne on July 11, 2019, 09:40:25 AM
I like Christie, always shows for the ball
and has a lot of possession.
And likes to create going forward.
Switches of though when defending.
But like his attitude.
He looks switched off most of the time, if he is caught out of position he jogs back with all the time in the world, even in the training photos in Portugal he looks switched off. I don't think he has anything to offer and I certainly dont think he is a top 6 Championship wing back.
We have not replaced Fredricks who was vital in our build up play for our last previous campaigns and it really showed last season. Christie will get into a position to cross but will turn and go backwards which is so frustrating to watch. Also when he gets forward it takes him an age to get back. We need to be aiming higher then Christie if we want to go back up and stay up.
Quote from: Dodger53 on July 11, 2019, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: ffcne on July 11, 2019, 09:40:25 AM
I like Christie, always shows for the ball
and has a lot of possession.
And likes to create going forward.
Switches of though when defending.
But like his attitude.
He looks switched off most of the time, if he is caught out of position he jogs back with all the time in the world, even in the training photos in Portugal he looks switched off. I don't think he has anything to offer and I certainly dont think he is a top 6 Championship wing back.
Sure your not confusing him with Cairney. :hook:
Quote from: Dodger53 on July 11, 2019, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: ffcne on July 11, 2019, 09:40:25 AM
I like Christie, always shows for the ball
and has a lot of possession.
And likes to create going forward.
Switches of though when defending.
But like his attitude.
He looks switched off most of the time, if he is caught out of position he jogs back with all the time in the world, even in the training photos in Portugal he looks switched off. I don't think he has anything to offer and I certainly dont think he is a top 6 Championship wing back.
Played for Derby and Middlesbrough before us and got promoted with us, I'd hesitate to say that's not top 6 championship, as for looking switched off in a 1/100 of a second photo blimey, that's one hell of a stretch
Quote from: snarks on July 11, 2019, 10:14:11 AM
Quote from: Dodger53 on July 11, 2019, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: ffcne on July 11, 2019, 09:40:25 AM
I like Christie, always shows for the ball
and has a lot of possession.
And likes to create going forward.
Switches of though when defending.
But like his attitude.
He looks switched off most of the time, if he is caught out of position he jogs back with all the time in the world, even in the training photos in Portugal he looks switched off. I don't think he has anything to offer and I certainly dont think he is a top 6 Championship wing back.
Played for Derby and Middlesbrough before us and got promoted with us, I'd hesitate to say that's not top 6 championship, as for looking switched off in a 1/100 of a second photo blimey, that's one hell of a stretch
I'd said this before though, he was sold at cost in January by Boro where he was supposedly their no.1 RB. That's not the actions of a team that rated him highly. I think he's lost his way somewhat since Derby. Maybe he can re-find that form but he's been off the boil for at least 3 seasons now.
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 11, 2019, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: snarks on July 11, 2019, 10:14:11 AM
Quote from: Dodger53 on July 11, 2019, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: ffcne on July 11, 2019, 09:40:25 AM
I like Christie, always shows for the ball
and has a lot of possession.
And likes to create going forward.
Switches of though when defending.
But like his attitude.
He looks switched off most of the time, if he is caught out of position he jogs back with all the time in the world, even in the training photos in Portugal he looks switched off. I don't think he has anything to offer and I certainly dont think he is a top 6 Championship wing back.
Played for Derby and Middlesbrough before us and got promoted with us, I'd hesitate to say that's not top 6 championship, as for looking switched off in a 1/100 of a second photo blimey, that's one hell of a stretch
I'd said this before though, he was sold at cost in January by Boro where he was supposedly their no.1 RB. That's not the actions of a team that rated him highly. I think he's lost his way somewhat since Derby. Maybe he can re-find that form but he's been off the boil for at least 3 seasons now.
The thing was he'd been bought by Monk and then he was sacked and Pulis took over, he made it clear he didn't want to play under Pulis, and I can't blame him for that, on that basis Boro wanted rid, and we wanted a RB as RF wouldn't sign a new contract. Hence cost suited both.
He didn't suit SJ's system as well as RF did. I personally blow hot and cold about him, but he is good enough for us in the Championship, although I'm hoping S Sess and Dramah (who people seem to rate as a RB) get game time too.
Looked very out of his depth in the PL. Ok for the championship ,but we can do a lot better . Makes far too many mistakes.
FFC1987...
Christie pro thread put up every week is getting tiresome?
I've never seen one up before or am I missing something... Plenty of anti Christie more like.
Quote from: snarks on July 11, 2019, 10:28:48 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 11, 2019, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: snarks on July 11, 2019, 10:14:11 AM
Quote from: Dodger53 on July 11, 2019, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: ffcne on July 11, 2019, 09:40:25 AM
I like Christie, always shows for the ball
and has a lot of possession.
And likes to create going forward.
Switches of though when defending.
But like his attitude.
He looks switched off most of the time, if he is caught out of position he jogs back with all the time in the world, even in the training photos in Portugal he looks switched off. I don't think he has anything to offer and I certainly dont think he is a top 6 Championship wing back.
Played for Derby and Middlesbrough before us and got promoted with us, I'd hesitate to say that's not top 6 championship, as for looking switched off in a 1/100 of a second photo blimey, that's one hell of a stretch
I'd said this before though, he was sold at cost in January by Boro where he was supposedly their no.1 RB. That's not the actions of a team that rated him highly. I think he's lost his way somewhat since Derby. Maybe he can re-find that form but he's been off the boil for at least 3 seasons now.
The thing was he'd been bought by Monk and then he was sacked and Pulis took over, he made it clear he didn't want to play under Pulis, and I can't blame him for that, on that basis Boro wanted rid, and we wanted a RB as RF wouldn't sign a new contract. Hence cost suited both.
He didn't suit SJ's system as well as RF did. I personally blow hot and cold about him, but he is good enough for us in the Championship, although I'm hoping S Sess and Dramah (who people seem to rate as a RB) get game time too.
I'm not sure why Christie would just state he doesn't want to play for Pulis if he's settled as no.1 in a Monk team to be honest. If he did, that brings attitude into question really. I do however hope, liek you, we see the emergence of a young pacey full back though. We desperately need it.
You've just put 6 quotes up to answer Snarks.
Why don't you just put name up like I've done to you last post.....All these quotes from certain posters..
Now That's Tiresome.😉
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on July 11, 2019, 10:47:06 AM
You've just put 6 quotes up to answer Snarks.
Why don't you just put name up like I've done to you last post.....All these quotes from certain posters..
Now That's Tiresome.😉
Yes, having the same mundane chat about one player is the same as someone quoting a chat which you have to scroll slightly further.....Theres been about 4 chats hijacked by random posts to Christie. As I said, we get it, I even said both pro and anti posts regarding him were tiresome and I actually gave a decent account of why instead of the pedantic drivvle offered by you above. At least Snarks offered a decent opposing opinion rather than a cheap snipe.
You should wait for the 3 amigos to appear and chat with them,one put up 11 quotes the other day taking up the whole page....How many times posters have complained and still it goes on....1 or 2 is sufficient.😯
Not a cheap snipe,lots find endless quotes tiresome
And nobody forced you to read and message on this Christie topic.....I don't go on quite a few,or do you feel you have to have an opinion on everything?
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on July 11, 2019, 11:05:30 AM
Not a cheap snipe,lots find endless quotes tiresome
And nobody forced you to read and message on this Christie topic.....I don't go on quite a few,or do you feel you have to have an opinion on everything?
Maybe they should change the quote tool to only bring up a max of 2 quotes or something then?
I don't hold an opinion on everything. I do however take exception when people make posts that I think have misconstrue an argument I've made. In this case 'certain posters think all our problems in defence lay at his door,and he must be replaced.'. I've made an argument that we should replace but haven't said everything at fault with him so it's not a factual portrayal of most of the arguments given up on him.
Did you class yourself as one of the certain posters then,as I didn't mention you.
There were too many to name.
Anyway enough said by me on the subject,time for the hounds walk in the woods.Be lucky.😊
Out of all the players he was the most responsible for our relegation. He is a terrible defender who doesnt track back and cant mark his man. When he gets forward he doesnt putnthe ball in and just circles around with his head down by the corner flag, ultimately losing the ball. He needs to be replaced at all cost.
We knew last July he wasn't good enough hence why we went for Mensah. We knew last Jan he wasnt good enough hence why we went for Sabaly. He is nowhere near the level we need. Nothing against him personally. Seems like a good bloke who is determined, he's just not good enough.
Quote from: JoelH5 on July 11, 2019, 12:12:17 PM
Out of all the players he was the most responsible for our relegation. He is a terrible defender who doesnt track back and cant mark his man. When he gets forward he doesnt putnthe ball in and just circles around with his head down by the corner flag, ultimately losing the ball. He needs to be replaced at all cost.
We knew last July he wasn't good enough hence why we went for Mensah. We knew last Jan he wasnt good enough hence why we went for Sabaly. He is no where near the level we need. Nothing against him personally. Seems like a good bloke who is determined, he's just not good enough.
Surely Fosu-Mensah was more influential in our relegation, going on your opinion.
I really don't rate Christie, he's not that great at attacking or defending in my opinion. He's quite slow and his crossing is poor. Bryan is also quite slow but his crossing is good, so it's okay. Would be great if we could get a quick full back, Youssouf Sabaly would be brilliant if he's willing to play at this level.
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on July 11, 2019, 12:16:25 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on July 11, 2019, 12:12:17 PM
Out of all the players he was the most responsible for our relegation. He is a terrible defender who doesnt track back and cant mark his man. When he gets forward he doesnt putnthe ball in and just circles around with his head down by the corner flag, ultimately losing the ball. He needs to be replaced at all cost.
We knew last July he wasn't good enough hence why we went for Mensah. We knew last Jan he wasnt good enough hence why we went for Sabaly. He is no where near the level we need. Nothing against him personally. Seems like a good bloke who is determined, he's just not good enough.
Surely Fosu-Mensah was more influential in our relegation, going on your opinion.
Agree. T F-M was our worst defender last season. No contest.
People arguing over his deficiencies, but I wonder what people see as his positives? What does he bring to the squad that either one of the younger right backs (for those that have seen them) or A.Nother couldn't? I can't really point to something he does especially well.
My view is that I prefer us to have one especially attacking full-back, and another who will more likely sit. Bryan will attack better than any of the right-backs, so if Christie doesn't excel offensively it isn't such a bother to me. It's his defensive side I'd be thinking about - he's average at best defensively. If he has to play, then so be it, but we could improve upon him if we wanted.
That said, if we want to improve on him, would that be at the cost of improving elsewhere? Way ahead of RB for me is a central defender (I would like MLM to never play for us again), wingers on both sides and someone to backup Mitrovic (if he gets injured for any period of time we're stuffed - Stef Jo false nine anyone :doh:).
Quote from: Dodger53 on July 11, 2019, 09:33:13 AM
Christie will not be ok at right back, his ability is poor and atitude are wrong. Back up at best assuming nobody wants him on loan.
I do not lay our defence problems all on Christie, he was just one of them. Playing Sessegnon as a full back and a lack of a good CB were all in the mix but Christie stood out as very poor in defence and he is not a wing back because he can't cross a good ball.
I agree totally except I do not think he has a bad attitude per se, rather that he does have a tendency to give up when caught up field having lost possession. I do think he is a very poor defender in terms of his positioning. I suspect he could be trianed to rather better but I am certain he is nowhere near good enough if we really want to progress.
Funny how CC was brought on in the play off final for the last 10 mins for Frederick's when he cant defend what was Slav doing!!! as for crossing Frederick's was hardly Mr Accurate he was just fast, think Christie's problems are more to do with how he was told to play, Ireland must have a shortage of RB for him to keep getting games for them.
Christie is tricky to me. First off, I'm not sure which games he struggled defensively, other than Arsenal at home where he was instructed to stay forward in a wingback formation. Yet, he is seen multiple times tracking back. I'd love to know specifically when he doesn't track back, because throwing generalizations like that are going to get challenged. Back to my point, he struggled against Arsenal, like we all did, but he struggled against Wolves at Home, and in the last 10 minutes of Spurs at home, including not closing down the cross that set up Winks header. Then the Palace match away was tough to watch because he struggled to the point that he didn't want to cross anymore. It was the first time I've ever seen that.
I've said it before, but my hesitation with Christie is in the attack, and primarily his right foot crossing ability. He needs to take lessons from Joe Bryan who can send in a cross with pace and curve. We need to let go of the Fredericks mentality as his first acceleration point was out of this world, and even defenders that knew what he was doing, could not stop him. Christie isn't that player, so instead he needs to work on his crossing/distribution more.
Furthering my hesitation is more so how he plants his feet and balances his body. It always looks like he is going to fall over, especially with the ball at his feet. It's hard to describe, but I've found myself find it hard to watch him with the ball at times because it's a bit unpredictable of what he is going to do.
Overall, if we find an adequate replacement, I am fine with that as long as they provide good service to Mitro. If Christie shows improvement in that area, then I'd say we have a good RB still. I'd love to see some examples of where he has been consistently a bad defender and doesn't track back though, because that's not exactly what I viewed.
Quote from: Nero on July 11, 2019, 01:42:25 PM
Funny how CC was brought on in the play off final for the last 10 mins for Frederick's when he cant defend what was Slav doing!!! as for crossing Frederick's was hardly Mr Accurate he was just fast, think Christie's problems are more to do with how he was told to play, Ireland must have a shortage of RB for him to keep getting games for them.
Ireland are not a very good team though. And they have actually also used him in midfield.
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 11, 2019, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 11, 2019, 01:42:25 PM
Funny how CC was brought on in the play off final for the last 10 mins for Frederick's when he cant defend what was Slav doing!!! as for crossing Frederick's was hardly Mr Accurate he was just fast, think Christie's problems are more to do with how he was told to play, Ireland must have a shortage of RB for him to keep getting games for them.
Ireland are not a very good team though. And they have actually also used him in midfield.
If I'm not mistaken, he hasn't made an appearance for Mick yet either right? Christie's biggest fan was Martin O'Neil, who actually defended him when he was blasted about Arsenal at home. Shame that Christie wasn't placed in midfield again as he actually received a MOTM vs Denmark in the Uefa Nations league. Of course, he didn't play as great in the next match, forgot who it was against. I know some on here have also considered him in the past for the midfield - probably not anymore considering how crowded it is.
Quote from: JoelH5 on July 11, 2019, 12:12:17 PM
Out of all the players he was the most responsible for our relegation. He is a terrible defender who doesnt track back and cant mark his man. When he gets forward he doesnt putnthe ball in and just circles around with his head down by the corner flag, ultimately losing the ball. He needs to be replaced at all cost.
We knew last July he wasn't good enough hence why we went for Mensah. We knew last Jan he wasnt good enough hence why we went for Sabaly. He is nowhere near the level we need. Nothing against him personally. Seems like a good bloke who is determined, he's just not good enough.
Can we really lay the blame on one player? On the subject of levels, we need a RB who is proven in the Championship. I would argue that Christie is the man for that job and we have adequate cover at RB in Denis & S. Sess. I'd prefer to see us invest in other areas before we spend money on another RB.
Quote from: Wingnut on July 11, 2019, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on July 11, 2019, 12:12:17 PM
Out of all the players he was the most responsible for our relegation. He is a terrible defender who doesnt track back and cant mark his man. When he gets forward he doesnt putnthe ball in and just circles around with his head down by the corner flag, ultimately losing the ball. He needs to be replaced at all cost.
We knew last July he wasn't good enough hence why we went for Mensah. We knew last Jan he wasnt good enough hence why we went for Sabaly. He is nowhere near the level we need. Nothing against him personally. Seems like a good bloke who is determined, he's just not good enough.
Can we really lay the blame on one player? On the subject of levels, we need a RB who is proven in the Championship. I would argue that Christie is the man for that job and we have adequate cover at RB in Denis & S. Sess. I'd prefer to see us invest in other areas before we spend money on another RB.
You can't seriously blame relegation on one player but he certainly played a part in it. I think we need more pace down that side who can get in behind and provide more in the box balls, more direct at times. We'll struggle without it. Maybe Odoi is that option with the youth as backup. I don't think Christie is that player.
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 11, 2019, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 11, 2019, 01:42:25 PM
Funny how CC was brought on in the play off final for the last 10 mins for Frederick's when he cant defend what was Slav doing!!! as for crossing Frederick's was hardly Mr Accurate he was just fast, think Christie's problems are more to do with how he was told to play, Ireland must have a shortage of RB for him to keep getting games for them.
Ireland are not a very good team though. And they have actually also used him in midfield.
Christie had the hardest position in the premier league last season with "Odoi to the left of him" and "Schullre in front of him".
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 11, 2019, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: Wingnut on July 11, 2019, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on July 11, 2019, 12:12:17 PM
Out of all the players he was the most responsible for our relegation. He is a terrible defender who doesnt track back and cant mark his man. When he gets forward he doesnt putnthe ball in and just circles around with his head down by the corner flag, ultimately losing the ball. He needs to be replaced at all cost.
We knew last July he wasn't good enough hence why we went for Mensah. We knew last Jan he wasnt good enough hence why we went for Sabaly. He is nowhere near the level we need. Nothing against him personally. Seems like a good bloke who is determined, he's just not good enough.
Can we really lay the blame on one player? On the subject of levels, we need a RB who is proven in the Championship. I would argue that Christie is the man for that job and we have adequate cover at RB in Denis & S. Sess. I'd prefer to see us invest in other areas before we spend money on another RB.
You can't seriously blame relegation on one player but he certainly played a part in it. I think we need more pace down that side who can get in behind and provide more in the box balls, more direct at times. We'll struggle without it. Maybe Odoi is that option with the youth as backup. I don't think Christie is that player.
Do you know what the word 'most' means? Unless the definition has changed today, where did I 'blame relegation on one player'?
Quote from: JoelH5 on July 11, 2019, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 11, 2019, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: Wingnut on July 11, 2019, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on July 11, 2019, 12:12:17 PM
Out of all the players he was the most responsible for our relegation. He is a terrible defender who doesnt track back and cant mark his man. When he gets forward he doesnt putnthe ball in and just circles around with his head down by the corner flag, ultimately losing the ball. He needs to be replaced at all cost.
We knew last July he wasn't good enough hence why we went for Mensah. We knew last Jan he wasnt good enough hence why we went for Sabaly. He is nowhere near the level we need. Nothing against him personally. Seems like a good bloke who is determined, he's just not good enough.
Can we really lay the blame on one player? On the subject of levels, we need a RB who is proven in the Championship. I would argue that Christie is the man for that job and we have adequate cover at RB in Denis & S. Sess. I'd prefer to see us invest in other areas before we spend money on another RB.
You can't seriously blame relegation on one player but he certainly played a part in it. I think we need more pace down that side who can get in behind and provide more in the box balls, more direct at times. We'll struggle without it. Maybe Odoi is that option with the youth as backup. I don't think Christie is that player.
Do you know what the word 'most' means? Unless the definition has changed today, where did I 'blame relegation on one player'?
Its ridiculous to blame any one player that makes the starting XI week after week, because the other players in the squad weren't as good as him at RB.
I would start the season with Odoi at right back but we will have to see who is in form come Christmas time, the position is up for grabs and over the season we may see Steven Sess. come into the picture.
No doubt we have not replaced Fredercks.
I honestly believe that Christie with AYite in front of him would look a far better player. He was hung out to dry on that right side for most of the season.
Football is not about the perfect player. It is a team game where players work well together playing the system the manager decrees. Christie doesn't need replacing, he needs coaching. I have watched many players over the years who become different players over night playing a different system. Some people on here want to throw the baby out with the bath water. So you can stop knocking Christie as he will be going nowhere in the forceable future.
Quote from: Andy S on July 11, 2019, 08:02:10 PM
Football is not about the perfect player. It is a team game where players work well together playing the system the manager decrees. Christie doesn't need replacing, he needs coaching. I have watched many players over the years who become different players over night playing a different system. Some people on here want to throw the baby out with the bath water. So you can stop knocking Christie as he will be going nowhere in the forceable future.
Why? Are you managing our transfer business? Makes sense if you're sitting on here.
