That hit Cyrus's sister has handed himself into police .
Given he's already been tried and convicted by everyone on here, can I assume they'll proceed straight to sentencing tomorrow morning?
And the public hanging is at 4:00. There is no excuse but a good brief could get him off
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Can only speak 2nd hand but my sons witnessed it and the guy was abusive and violent and ran away .
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
[/quote]
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Would be good if you could elaborate on that. And I mean that sincerely - I'm genuinely curious about the incident. In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
Quote from: Statto on August 05, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Would be good if you could elaborate on that. And I mean that sincerely - I'm genuinely curious about the incident. In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
Take a look three posts up Statto. That's pretty close.
Quote from: Statto on August 05, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Would be good if you could elaborate on that. And I mean that sincerely - I'm genuinely curious about the incident. In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
I don't understand why you are doubting this happened? Christie publicly stated that his sister was abused and hit and the alleged perpetrator has handed himself into the police.
The fact that your first reaction is to be suspicious of the accuser, says more about you than anything else. If we are to kick out racism in football, it's this attitude that needs to change
Quote from: gezkc on August 06, 2019, 08:08:35 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 05, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Would be good if you could elaborate on that. And I mean that sincerely - I'm genuinely curious about the incident. In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
I don't understand why you are doubting this happened? Christie publicly stated that his sister was abused and hit and the alleged perpetrator has handed himself into the police.
The fact that your first reaction is to be suspicious of the accuser, says more about you than anything else. If we are to kick out racism in football, it's this attitude that needs to change
But of course it's usually people with no direct experience of racism that are experts or even debating if it exists at all
Quote from: gezkc on August 06, 2019, 08:08:35 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 05, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Would be good if you could elaborate on that. And I mean that sincerely - I'm genuinely curious about the incident. In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
I don't understand why you are doubting this happened? Christie publicly stated that his sister was abused and hit and the alleged perpetrator has handed himself into the police.
The fact that your first reaction is to be suspicious of the accuser, says more about you than anything else. If we are to kick out racism in football, it's this attitude that needs to change
Who is this directed to? Me or YankeeJim? I don't doubt this happened, not sure why you'd think that
Quote from: flyingfish on August 06, 2019, 08:36:03 AM
Quote from: gezkc on August 06, 2019, 08:08:35 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 05, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Would be good if you could elaborate on that. And I mean that sincerely - I'm genuinely curious about the incident. In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
I don't understand why you are doubting this happened? Christie publicly stated that his sister was abused and hit and the alleged perpetrator has handed himself into the police.
The fact that your first reaction is to be suspicious of the accuser, says more about you than anything else. If we are to kick out racism in football, it's this attitude that needs to change
But of course it's usually people with no direct experience of racism that are experts or even debating if it exists at all
Who is this directed to? Me? Are you suggesting I've had no direct experience of racism? Not sure how you'd know that
The act itself,also I he comments by certain people on boards and social media in general can't just try to disprove and condone prejudice in any situation is disgusting everyone needs to condem this behavior.
There are people that saw it, the club knew this I'm sure when putting out a strong statement. They may not be the type of people that use social media (my dad who travels to aways a bit never would - infact he'd probably clump the bloke that was doing it). Also, one of the quick thinking stewards took a picture of the bloke too, so they did know who it was.
I think handing himself into Police is some admittance of the fact that an altercation did happen and that that individual feels partly responsible for it.
I'd be much happier knowing people like that don't go to Fulham games any more. I saw first hand some 20 ish year old swearing and offering out a middle aged woman at Wembley and was pleased that most around told him to behave, it's always been that way at Fulham and would hope that continues.
Quote from: Statto on August 06, 2019, 09:01:17 AM
Quote from: gezkc on August 06, 2019, 08:08:35 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 05, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Would be good if you could elaborate on that. And I mean that sincerely - I'm genuinely curious about the incident. In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
I don't understand why you are doubting this happened? Christie publicly stated that his sister was abused and hit and the alleged perpetrator has handed himself into the police.
The fact that your first reaction is to be suspicious of the accuser, says more about you than anything else. If we are to kick out racism in football, it's this attitude that needs to change
Who is this directed to? Me or YankeeJim? I don't doubt this happened, not sure why you'd think that
All your posts on this subject would suggest otherwise, Statto, so yes it was a question to you.
Quote from: gezkc on August 06, 2019, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 06, 2019, 09:01:17 AM
Quote from: gezkc on August 06, 2019, 08:08:35 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 05, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Would be good if you could elaborate on that. And I mean that sincerely - I'm genuinely curious about the incident. In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
I don't understand why you are doubting this happened? Christie publicly stated that his sister was abused and hit and the alleged perpetrator has handed himself into the police.
The fact that your first reaction is to be suspicious of the accuser, says more about you than anything else. If we are to kick out racism in football, it's this attitude that needs to change
Who is this directed to? Me or YankeeJim? I don't doubt this happened, not sure why you'd think that
All your posts on this subject would suggest otherwise, Statto, so yes it was a question to you.
OK so, what is the question sorry?
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 06, 2019, 09:10:53 AM
Those who did see what happened, and there are people, are unlikely to have reported what they saw via social media, because frankly look at the posts and comments - it isn't something worth the huge response, and suffering doubt from people as to their recollection of what happened - not everyone wants the attention or to be seen as an arbitrator on what happened. There's a number they can call to inform the club - I know some have. It will be sorted in time.
#
This exactly. Why would you post on FoF for example when you will have some moron saying it never happened and probably calling you a liar?
Quote from: Statto on August 05, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
The 'confusion' I expect comes from this comment you made. To be clear then, this isn't a backhanded way to say you doubt it happened? Don't take offence. I'm trying to clear the above situation up.
Quote from: gezkc on August 06, 2019, 08:08:35 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 05, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 05, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 05, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
The true tragedy in this is that people are speaking badly of someone that was physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
that was alleged to have physically accosting and racially abusing someone.
Yeah, too bad there weren't dozens of witnesses, otherwise we might have a clue what happened.
Would be good if you could elaborate on that. And I mean that sincerely - I'm genuinely curious about the incident. In 48 hrs of trawling Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the internet generally, I'm yet to see anyone claiming to have been a direct witness to the incident itself, or indeed anyone saying what actually happened in more detail than Christie's post.
I don't understand why you are doubting this happened? Christie publicly stated that his sister was abused and hit and the alleged perpetrator has handed himself into the police.
The fact that your first reaction is to be suspicious of the accuser, says more about you than anything else. If we are to kick out racism in football, it's this attitude that needs to change
I don't think there's anything wrong with being sceptical of a story when the facts haven't been laid out yet to be honest. Being sympathetic and listening and trying to get to the bottom of the case is important, but I for one, don't jump to conclusions on hearsay until more proof as come out (like it has). Not against your position but I believe innocent until proven guilty is important as well as, as you say, not demeaning, throwing out at the offset and not believing someone that reports such an incident.
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 06, 2019, 10:31:11 AM
Quote from: JoelH5 on August 06, 2019, 10:18:57 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 06, 2019, 09:10:53 AM
Those who did see what happened, and there are people, are unlikely to have reported what they saw via social media, because frankly look at the posts and comments - it isn't something worth the huge response, and suffering doubt from people as to their recollection of what happened - not everyone wants the attention or to be seen as an arbitrator on what happened. There's a number they can call to inform the club - I know some have. It will be sorted in time.
#
This exactly. Why would you post on FoF for example when you will have some moron saying it never happened and probably calling you a liar?
You are yourself supposing that they may report what they saw in full support of the general belief is - that may not be true, and if they said as such for example, imagine the reaction. It is easier, and much more productive for those that did see it to discuss with the club, which they have. Conjecture doesn't now help or do anything but raise arguments between you all. I'm sure the clubs relevant person within the supporter liaison department will confirm the outcome in due course.
huh? You've said exactly what I was saying. Why would you post about it on here if you saw it when you could just report it to the club.
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 06, 2019, 10:40:20 AM
I read your comment to suggest that those who have spoken to the club would agree with Cyrus' sisters view of events - some may have seen some and agree, others may have seen other parts and not know in full, or disagree entirely, so when you saying someone may disbelieve you, I read that to mean that from the perspective that anyone coming forwards would 100% corroborate what has been reported so far. Reading again, I see what you mean - whatever someone witnessed, if they report it on social media/forums, they would have their comments doubted and be hounded for further info which they may not want to give - right? Not everyone revels in being the centre of attention, especially when it is regards something so unsavoury.
Yeah, exactly. More to the point, what benefit is there of posting it on here? There is none. For people to then say this happened or didn't happen because no one has posted it on an fan forum is naive.
To those that wonder why people, like Statto, are often skeptical of allegations of this, and other, criminal behavior, I provide two, totally separate and distinct, links to stories.
All this proves is that there are those amongst us that will make false allegations, for whatever reasons they wish, which plays into the racial divide. It is people like these two that provide evidence as to why people are not taken at face value, and it is neither 'side' of the racial divide that is more predominant in this, as a cursory search on Google will provide ample proof of such.
I believe that the vast majority on here are fair-minded, balanced, and law abiding citizens, who find racially-motivated behavior intolerable and wish it did not exist, unfortunately it does, it has done since the dawn of man (tribal) and will do into the future, but that does NOT mean that any of us should provoke and accuse others on here of either promoting, denying or tolerating racism, or any other untoward behavior, simply because they might be skeptical of a news story, as the two links provided show.
https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/10/15/17978682/racial-profiling-black-children-911-teresa-klein-brooklyn (https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/10/15/17978682/racial-profiling-black-children-911-teresa-klein-brooklyn)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jussie_Smollett_alleged_assault (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jussie_Smollett_alleged_assault)
So, lets all cool it down and behave and treat others as we would wish to be treated ourselves, without providing false allegations against each other.
I do so hope that, at some point in time in the future, there will be no cause for any human being to call the special case card, because humanity in general knows exactly how to behave with anyone else and exactly what will happen to them if they do not behave.
It's a sign of the times that people expect chapter and verse instantly on such incidents when they involve a body they are consumed with be it by family ties or whatever, but we didn't always have smart phones, instant communication, and rash statements. In those days it would take time for those we hold responsible for investigation to piece together evidence, determine a view of the truth, and decide what law, if any, has been broken.
In the incident in question I hope all concerned will, once all the dust has settled, determine a better way of dealing with any future occurrences, one which avoids trigger happy agenda shooting from all and sundry, a process that actually detracts from the main point of watching professional sport. Football supporters should be able to enjoy watching the game without ever having to deal with an idiot fringe for whatever reason. And if the idiot cannot be trusted to behave responsibly then they should be banned sine die.
Quote from: jeremyfulham on August 05, 2019, 10:35:12 PM
That hit Cyrus's sister has handed himself into police .
where did you hear this?
Quote from: Ruislip Ray on August 06, 2019, 01:39:31 PM
Quote from: jeremyfulham on August 05, 2019, 10:35:12 PM
That hit Cyrus's sister has handed himself into police .
where did you hear this?
Seen it on a few outlets; facebook, twitter etc
Logicalman makes a great point about the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" underpinning our criminal justice system, which is, I might add, probably the best justice system in the world. The integrity of that system is, with all due respect, far more important than anything that could have happened on Saturday, and cases like those of Carl Beech and Jussie Smollet recently should remind us why it needs to seem harsh and cynical at times.
As it happens, my position is one step down from that insofar as, as I said, I accept that "this" did happen, because I think it highly unlikely that Christie would have completely fabricated the story. However, I think it equally unlikely that a Fulham fan at a match with his wife would physically attack another fan, randomly and without provocation, and that his wife would then support him, and that none of the fans around them would "clump" (as someone put it above) or apprehend him. Therefore, I consider it totally unclear at this stage what "this" involved, ie, what actually happened.
If Christie is a normal person, he won't have challenged his sister's side if the story - just as I wouldn't, if I was him. That's fine, but in my experience, there are two sides to every story, and both sides will exaggerate or omit different elements, quite often unintentionally. Back in the 90s I was accused of saying the n-word in an amateur football match when in fact I said "f*** off will ya". I dread to think what the consequences of that misunderstanding would be if it happened today.
I'm not calling anyone a liar, nor justifying violence or racial abuse, but I'm not going to judge someone with only one side of the story, particularly when that's a vague half-sentence of detail, relayed to me second-hand via Twitter. Sorry but I'm going to do what the Police and any other half-intelligent, responsible and genuinely compassionate person would do, which is wait for the full facts to emerge - which I'm sure they will, very soon.
Well lets hope the person, if found guilty, is punished quickly and the matter is forgotten but not repeated and that we all show understanding by giving full support to Christie on Saturday.
Quote from: filham on August 06, 2019, 05:39:20 PM
Well lets hope the person, if found guilty, is punished quickly and the matter is forgotten but not repeated and that we all show understanding by giving full support to Christie on Saturday.
Amen to that.
Absolutely agree - everyone needs to get right behind Christie on saturday.
