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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Benny on August 11, 2019, 11:07:13 AM

Title: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Benny on August 11, 2019, 11:07:13 AM
better than our promotion season?
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: FFC1987 on August 11, 2019, 11:37:20 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: ALG01 on August 11, 2019, 11:43:32 AM
in answer to the question unfortunatey it yes and no.
The lack of two decent full backs is worse but I think the rest of the team is a step up.
The biggest minus is the manager. I like scott and was my choice after CR and clearly hope he picks it up very quickly but slav was a seasoned professional that knew what needed to be done and how to do it, he was 'risk free.'
so in may we will have this discussion again no doubt based on what actually happens.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: hovewhite on August 11, 2019, 12:29:23 PM
Yes I believe so,pace down the sides re Frederick when he was here he had pace but no end product and on this board we all said it and that aside much better!
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
After a great showing yesterday, we do have a good squad, but a word of caution. In our last successful push for the top flight we earned it using loanees, and then they left. We struggled to replace them and faced disaster last season.

Our current squad also has loanees in critical positions, and so we need to look at signing possible replacements in the Jan window  (Summer at a push) or, if we do get promotion again this season, we could find ourselves in the same position as 14 months ago.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
After a great showing yesterday, we do have a good squad, but a word of caution. In our last successful push for the top flight we earned it using loanees, and then they left. We struggled to replace them and faced disaster last season.

Our current squad also has loanees in critical positions, and so we need to look at signing possible replacements in the Jan window  (Summer at a push) or, if we do get promotion again this season, we could find ourselves in the same position as 14 months ago.

All our loanees have an option to buy this time around. Even Reed. So we won't have a Mitro or Targett situation where they suddenly increase their asking price by £10 million if they prove themselves while here.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: toshes mate on August 11, 2019, 01:27:54 PM
It will be as successful as Jokanovic's team if it wins promotion this season.  If it doesn't then it will not be as successful.  Any other attempts at comparisons are either premature or largely down to opinion.  The objective is promotion as we have heard from several different places within the Club hierarchy.  That is the target.  If this team hits the target then we may muse as much as we wish to do so upon which promotion team was the better.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: bobby01 on August 11, 2019, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
After a great showing yesterday, we do have a good squad, but a word of caution. In our last successful push for the top flight we earned it using loanees, and then they left. We struggled to replace them and faced disaster last season.

Our current squad also has loanees in critical positions, and so we need to look at signing possible replacements in the Jan window  (Summer at a push) or, if we do get promotion again this season, we could find ourselves in the same position as 14 months ago.

All our loanees have an option to buy this time around. Even Reed. So we won't have a Mitro or Targett situation where they suddenly increase their asking price by £10 million if they prove themselves while here.



I,m not splitting hairs here I am just trying to understand. For example Knockaert and Cavaleiro signed as loan with option to buy. Reed signed as a loan with the possibility of it being made permanent. Does this mean the option to buys have a price already agreed whereas reed still has to have a price for signing agreed.
I know it's only different words but if the above applies it is not cut and dried and reed could end up like target.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: hovewhite on August 11, 2019, 01:54:00 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on August 11, 2019, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
After a great showing yesterday, we do have a good squad, but a word of caution. In our last successful push for the top flight we earned it using loanees, and then they left. We struggled to replace them and faced disaster last season.

Our current squad also has loanees in critical positions, and so we need to look at signing possible replacements in the Jan window  (Summer at a push) or, if we do get promotion again this season, we could find ourselves in the same position as 14 months ago.

All our loanees have an option to buy this time around. Even Reed. So we won't have a Mitro or Targett situation where they suddenly increase their asking price by £10 million if they prove themselves while here.



I,m not splitting hairs here I am just trying to understand. For example Knockaert and Cavaleiro signed as loan with option to buy. Reed signed as a loan with the possibility of it being made permanent. Does this mean the option to buys have a price already agreed whereas reed still has to have a price for signing agreed.
I know it's only different words but if the above applies it is not cut and dried and reed could end up like target.
ask TK not us!
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Milo on August 11, 2019, 01:57:26 PM
Quote from: hovewhite on August 11, 2019, 01:54:00 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on August 11, 2019, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
After a great showing yesterday, we do have a good squad, but a word of caution. In our last successful push for the top flight we earned it using loanees, and then they left. We struggled to replace them and faced disaster last season.

Our current squad also has loanees in critical positions, and so we need to look at signing possible replacements in the Jan window  (Summer at a push) or, if we do get promotion again this season, we could find ourselves in the same position as 14 months ago.

All our loanees have an option to buy this time around. Even Reed. So we won't have a Mitro or Targett situation where they suddenly increase their asking price by £10 million if they prove themselves while here.



I,m not splitting hairs here I am just trying to understand. For example Knockaert and Cavaleiro signed as loan with option to buy. Reed signed as a loan with the possibility of it being made permanent. Does this mean the option to buys have a price already agreed whereas reed still has to have a price for signing agreed.
I know it's only different words but if the above applies it is not cut and dried and reed could end up like target.
ask TK not us!

Good FST q!
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 02:04:34 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on August 11, 2019, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
After a great showing yesterday, we do have a good squad, but a word of caution. In our last successful push for the top flight we earned it using loanees, and then they left. We struggled to replace them and faced disaster last season.

Our current squad also has loanees in critical positions, and so we need to look at signing possible replacements in the Jan window  (Summer at a push) or, if we do get promotion again this season, we could find ourselves in the same position as 14 months ago.

All our loanees have an option to buy this time around. Even Reed. So we won't have a Mitro or Targett situation where they suddenly increase their asking price by £10 million if they prove themselves while here.

I,m not splitting hairs here I am just trying to understand. For example Knockaert and Cavaleiro signed as loan with option to buy. Reed signed as a loan with the possibility of it being made permanent. Does this mean the option to buys have a price already agreed whereas reed still has to have a price for signing agreed.
I know it's only different words but if the above applies it is not cut and dried and reed could end up like target.

That is the same wording they used for Arter and Bobby Reid. Arter has an obligation to buy if we get promoted and Warnock has said that the Reid deal is worth £1.5 million more than they bought him for. So they have set fees, and the same wording as the Reed signing.

"Reed joins Fulham on a season-long loan deal, which could be made permanent at a later date."

"The 26-year-old forward (Reid) will remain at Craven Cottage for the duration of the season, in a deal that could later become permanent."

"The deal keeps the 29-year-old (Arter) at Craven Cottage for the duration of the 2019/20 season, and could be made permanent next summer."
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 02:09:51 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 02:04:34 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on August 11, 2019, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
After a great showing yesterday, we do have a good squad, but a word of caution. In our last successful push for the top flight we earned it using loanees, and then they left. We struggled to replace them and faced disaster last season.

Our current squad also has loanees in critical positions, and so we need to look at signing possible replacements in the Jan window  (Summer at a push) or, if we do get promotion again this season, we could find ourselves in the same position as 14 months ago.

All our loanees have an option to buy this time around. Even Reed. So we won't have a Mitro or Targett situation where they suddenly increase their asking price by £10 million if they prove themselves while here.

I,m not splitting hairs here I am just trying to understand. For example Knockaert and Cavaleiro signed as loan with option to buy. Reed signed as a loan with the possibility of it being made permanent. Does this mean the option to buys have a price already agreed whereas reed still has to have a price for signing agreed.
I know it's only different words but if the above applies it is not cut and dried and reed could end up like target.

That is the same wording they used for Arter and Bobby Reid. Arter has an obligation to buy if we get promoted and Warnock has said that the Reid deal is worth £1.5 million more than they bought him for. So they have set fees, and the same wording as the Reed signing.

"Reed joins Fulham on a season-long loan deal, which could be made permanent at a later date."

"The 26-year-old forward (Reid) will remain at Craven Cottage for the duration of the season, in a deal that could later become permanent."

"The deal keeps the 29-year-old (Arter) at Craven Cottage for the duration of the 2019/20 season, and could be made permanent next summer."

Obligation or option?

Are we obliged to buy if we get promoted?

Even with Option to buy, does the player not have a final say in this? I'm not so certain that everything is always so cut and dried as some wording might have us believe.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 02:13:33 PM
This is the wording from Bournemouth.

"The agreement with the Cottagers includes an obligation to buy the midfielder should certain performance-related criteria be met."

The way it usually works with these deals is that we have a contract agreed with Arter before him coming here, and we have to pay if the "performance-related criteria" are met.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 02:18:09 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 02:13:33 PM
This is the wording from Bournemouth.

"The agreement with the Cottagers includes an obligation to buy the midfielder should certain performance-related criteria be met."

The way it usually works with these deals is that we have a contract agreed with Arter before him coming here, and we have to pay if the "performance-related criteria" are met.

I see, risky business I guess, if its based on promotion alone, though I hope its a good price.  :54:
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: BigbadBillyMcKinley on August 11, 2019, 03:47:02 PM
Ask again at the end of the season. Another trip to Wembley wouldn't go amiss, but isn't rather automatic promotion because then they can properly put plans in place (at least that's what normal clubs would do)!
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: The Rational Fan on August 12, 2019, 08:16:47 AM
Our best promotion season team after christmas was awesome, but one game before christmas our forward line was Fonte, Johasen and Ojo, with Graham and Torres coming off the bench. We have clearly improved since then. In addition, FFC are not as dependent on Cairney and in 17/18 we dropped around 32 points with Cairney injuried, not playing a full game and/or returning from injury. Bobby Reid sort of injury proofs fulham from a huge loss of points if Cairney or Mitro aren't playing.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: toshes mate on August 12, 2019, 08:27:44 AM
Quote from: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 02:09:51 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 02:04:34 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on August 11, 2019, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 11, 2019, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on August 11, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
After a great showing yesterday, we do have a good squad, but a word of caution. In our last successful push for the top flight we earned it using loanees, and then they left. We struggled to replace them and faced disaster last season.

Our current squad also has loanees in critical positions, and so we need to look at signing possible replacements in the Jan window  (Summer at a push) or, if we do get promotion again this season, we could find ourselves in the same position as 14 months ago.

All our loanees have an option to buy this time around. Even Reed. So we won't have a Mitro or Targett situation where they suddenly increase their asking price by £10 million if they prove themselves while here.

I,m not splitting hairs here I am just trying to understand. For example Knockaert and Cavaleiro signed as loan with option to buy. Reed signed as a loan with the possibility of it being made permanent. Does this mean the option to buys have a price already agreed whereas reed still has to have a price for signing agreed.
I know it's only different words but if the above applies it is not cut and dried and reed could end up like target.

That is the same wording they used for Arter and Bobby Reid. Arter has an obligation to buy if we get promoted and Warnock has said that the Reid deal is worth £1.5 million more than they bought him for. So they have set fees, and the same wording as the Reed signing.

"Reed joins Fulham on a season-long loan deal, which could be made permanent at a later date."

"The 26-year-old forward (Reid) will remain at Craven Cottage for the duration of the season, in a deal that could later become permanent."

"The deal keeps the 29-year-old (Arter) at Craven Cottage for the duration of the 2019/20 season, and could be made permanent next summer."

Obligation or option?

Are we obliged to buy if we get promoted?

Even with Option to buy, does the player not have a final say in this? I'm not so certain that everything is always so cut and dried as some wording might have us believe.
I suspect you are right about player preferences and say, and the loaning club's requirements, equally influencing the loan arrangement.  Reid makes it pretty clear he has 'always wanted to play for FFC' but clearly it still depends upon how the loan pans out.  I suspect, as with all things, the proof will be in the final outcome of the pudding.  I just hope that all the loans are clearer to the loanees than they were when a certain Mr Martin came here.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: toshes mate on August 12, 2019, 08:35:20 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 12, 2019, 08:16:47 AM
Our best promotion season team after christmas was awesome, but one game before christmas our forward line was Fonte, Johasen and Ojo, with Graham and Torres coming off the bench. We have clearly improved since then. In addition, FFC are not as dependent on Cairney and in 17/18 we dropped around 32 points with Cairney injuried, not playing a full game and/or returning from injury. Bobby Reid sort of injury proofs fulham from a huge loss of points if Cairney or Mitro aren't playing.
To be fair the problems of 17/18 were a little bit more complicated than Cairney's fitness, and Mitro didn't even figure until after the winter window.  We had problems on the left (loss of Malone without replacement) and the resulting key issue of where to play R Sessegnon, something SJ pointed out as a conundrum that could have been avoided.  Plus the fact Cairney never really reached his best until the winter window resolved two key positions.  Both flanks could be problematic this season unless the partnerships can be made to work really effectively, and central midfield effectiveness is reduced if they do not.   
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: The Old Count on August 12, 2019, 09:11:05 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 11, 2019, 01:27:54 PM
It will be as successful as Jokanovic's team if it wins promotion this season.  If it doesn't then it will not be as successful.  Any other attempts at comparisons are either premature or largely down to opinion.  The objective is promotion as we have heard from several different places within the Club hierarchy.  That is the target.  If this team hits the target then we may muse as much as we wish to do so upon which promotion team was the better.

The question was, 'was it better.' Not would it be more succesful.

Yes, it probably is better. Will it bemore succesful? Who knows. Other factors such as luck with injuries play a part.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: toshes mate on August 12, 2019, 10:06:42 AM
Quote from: The Old Count on August 12, 2019, 09:11:05 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 11, 2019, 01:27:54 PM
It will be as successful as Jokanovic's team if it wins promotion this season.  If it doesn't then it will not be as successful.  Any other attempts at comparisons are either premature or largely down to opinion.  The objective is promotion as we have heard from several different places within the Club hierarchy.  That is the target.  If this team hits the target then we may muse as much as we wish to do so upon which promotion team was the better.

The question was, 'was it better.' Not would it be more succesful.

Yes, it probably is better. Will it bemore succesful? Who knows. Other factors such as luck with injuries play a part.
Oh do split hairs why don't you...
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Sting of the North on August 12, 2019, 11:05:52 AM
Quote from: The Old Count on August 12, 2019, 09:11:05 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 11, 2019, 01:27:54 PM
It will be as successful as Jokanovic's team if it wins promotion this season.  If it doesn't then it will not be as successful.  Any other attempts at comparisons are either premature or largely down to opinion.  The objective is promotion as we have heard from several different places within the Club hierarchy.  That is the target.  If this team hits the target then we may muse as much as we wish to do so upon which promotion team was the better.

The question was, 'was it better.' Not would it be more succesful.

Yes, it probably is better. Will it bemore succesful? Who knows. Other factors such as luck with injuries play a part.

Do we have a much better way to assess how good the squad/team is, than by its eventual success? Maybe the OP just meant to ask whether we have individually better players overall, which I would say is a very different thing from having a better squad/team. My answer to the former is a definite yes, on the latter I am more inclined to answer like Toshes did, which essentially comes down to whether or not the many talented players are able to work as a successful team.

I'll admit though that having better players is a good starting point if you wish to be successful, but doesn't change the fact that in the long run it is a team game.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 12:48:59 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 12, 2019, 08:35:20 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 12, 2019, 08:16:47 AM
Our best promotion season team after christmas was awesome, but one game before christmas our forward line was Fonte, Johasen and Ojo, with Graham and Torres coming off the bench. We have clearly improved since then. In addition, FFC are not as dependent on Cairney and in 17/18 we dropped around 32 points with Cairney injuried, not playing a full game and/or returning from injury. Bobby Reid sort of injury proofs fulham from a huge loss of points if Cairney or Mitro aren't playing.
To be fair the problems of 17/18 were a little bit more complicated than Cairney's fitness, and Mitro didn't even figure until after the winter window.  We had problems on the left (loss of Malone without replacement) and the resulting key issue of where to play R Sessegnon, something SJ pointed out as a conundrum that could have been avoided.  Plus the fact Cairney never really reached his best until the winter window resolved two key positions.  Both flanks could be problematic this season unless the partnerships can be made to work really effectively, and central midfield effectiveness is reduced if they do not.   

Fulham had money for one more player for the entire season, by not spending that money it now has enough for two more players for half a season, plus i assume we always planned one transfer in winter. With three additional players in the winter transfer window, we are better than 17/18 in terms of players.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: toshes mate on August 13, 2019, 09:04:45 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 12:48:59 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 12, 2019, 08:35:20 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 12, 2019, 08:16:47 AM
Our best promotion season team after christmas was awesome, but one game before christmas our forward line was Fonte, Johasen and Ojo, with Graham and Torres coming off the bench. We have clearly improved since then. In addition, FFC are not as dependent on Cairney and in 17/18 we dropped around 32 points with Cairney injuried, not playing a full game and/or returning from injury. Bobby Reid sort of injury proofs fulham from a huge loss of points if Cairney or Mitro aren't playing.
To be fair the problems of 17/18 were a little bit more complicated than Cairney's fitness, and Mitro didn't even figure until after the winter window.  We had problems on the left (loss of Malone without replacement) and the resulting key issue of where to play R Sessegnon, something SJ pointed out as a conundrum that could have been avoided.  Plus the fact Cairney never really reached his best until the winter window resolved two key positions.  Both flanks could be problematic this season unless the partnerships can be made to work really effectively, and central midfield effectiveness is reduced if they do not.   

Fulham had money for one more player for the entire season, by not spending that money it now has enough for two more players for half a season, plus i assume we always planned one transfer in winter. With three additional players in the winter transfer window, we are better than 17/18 in terms of players.
I feel it is rather foolhardy to wish for a repeat of the unbeaten run from December onward to secure promotion, especially automatically since the playoffs are a lottery.  We have classically failed to cover key positions throughout TK's time as DoF, and it is still possible that will do us damage this time around.  I am looking to May 2020 and thinking is it really going to happen and I'm not so sure the fog in the crystal ball is altogether unexpected.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 09:45:07 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 13, 2019, 09:04:45 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 12:48:59 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 12, 2019, 08:35:20 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 12, 2019, 08:16:47 AM
Our best promotion season team after christmas was awesome, but one game before christmas our forward line was Fonte, Johasen and Ojo, with Graham and Torres coming off the bench. We have clearly improved since then. In addition, FFC are not as dependent on Cairney and in 17/18 we dropped around 32 points with Cairney injuried, not playing a full game and/or returning from injury. Bobby Reid sort of injury proofs fulham from a huge loss of points if Cairney or Mitro aren't playing.
To be fair the problems of 17/18 were a little bit more complicated than Cairney's fitness, and Mitro didn't even figure until after the winter window.  We had problems on the left (loss of Malone without replacement) and the resulting key issue of where to play R Sessegnon, something SJ pointed out as a conundrum that could have been avoided.  Plus the fact Cairney never really reached his best until the winter window resolved two key positions.  Both flanks could be problematic this season unless the partnerships can be made to work really effectively, and central midfield effectiveness is reduced if they do not.   

Fulham had money for one more player for the entire season, by not spending that money it now has enough for two more players for half a season, plus i assume we always planned one transfer in winter. With three additional players in the winter transfer window, we are better than 17/18 in terms of players.
I feel it is rather foolhardy to wish for a repeat of the unbeaten run from December onward to secure promotion, especially automatically since the playoffs are a lottery.  We have classically failed to cover key positions throughout TK's time as DoF, and it is still possible that will do us damage this time around.  I am looking to May 2020 and thinking is it really going to happen and I'm not so sure the fog in the crystal ball is altogether unexpected.

The current squad should do better than we did in the first half of 17/18, but if on 1st Jan 2020 we are three to six points behind second place with budget for three players for half a season, maybe it's not too bad. Because we didn't get Hector we are in a much better position for the winter transfer window especially important if injuries hit us between November to January.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Mince n Tatties on August 13, 2019, 09:56:50 AM
Simple answer to the question is.....If we don't get promoted the squad will not be as good.😊
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 10:23:10 AM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 13, 2019, 09:56:50 AM
Simple answer to the question is.....If we don't get promoted the squad will not be as good.😊

I would argue that Sheffield United got promoted without a good squad, so surely a good squad can fail to get promoted. This is not football manager where you get the right players and you are guaranteed to win.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Lighthouse on August 13, 2019, 10:39:35 AM
The squad is better but I am not sure the team is close yet. Players as individuals may be better but we have looked a long way off being a team that can push for a place in the top 6. On saying that we must remember we didn't look like a good team the season we were in the playoffs until after Christmas.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Mince n Tatties on August 13, 2019, 10:44:18 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 10:23:10 AM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 13, 2019, 09:56:50 AM
Simple answer to the question is.....If we don't get promoted the squad will not be as good.😊

I would argue that Sheffield United got promoted without a good squad, so surely a good squad can fail to get promoted. This is not football manager where you get the right players and you are guaranteed to win.

Problem you've got is you try to complicate simple things....Sheff Utd must have had a good squad or they wouldn't have gone up..Simple fact.
And the majority of that squad played Bournemouth off the park for periods on Sat....Fact.
And like I state this lot if they don't go up want be as good as the promotion squad...Fact.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 11:04:20 AM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 13, 2019, 10:44:18 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 10:23:10 AM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 13, 2019, 09:56:50 AM
Simple answer to the question is.....If we don't get promoted the squad will not be as good.😊

I would argue that Sheffield United got promoted without a good squad, so surely a good squad can fail to get promoted. This is not football manager where you get the right players and you are guaranteed to win.

Problem you've got is you try to complicate simple things....Sheff Utd must have had a good squad or they wouldn't have gone up..Simple fact.
And the majority of that squad played Bournemouth off the park for periods on Sat....Fact.
And like I state this lot if they don't go up want be as good as the promotion squad...Fact.

I would say the England WC 2006 was a quality squad even if on-field results didn't achieve the results the latest squad has.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: toshes mate on August 13, 2019, 11:29:38 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 11:04:20 AM
I would say the England WC 2006 was a quality squad even if on-field results didn't achieve the results the latest squad has.
The measures contained in this thread are 'better', 'good', 'successful', and, thanks to you, 'quality'. 

And yet, we follow a results oriented sport - the professional association football pyramid - which rewards teams who win games with a chance of promotion.  Winning games is largely a random event which tends to happen more often to teams who play with confidence, authority, discipline, organisation, clever tactics and player chemistry.  The better the tactics and chemistry (etc) the better the chance a good player of quality can perform to expectation or even above that expectation.  The greater the chance of players reaching or exceeding potential performance the greater the chance that random outcomes will be wins.  Successful clubs have successful hierarchies if only for a season at a time (i.e. when they win something big).

The key point is that every employee and executive is part of a team and someone somewhere has to make that team click.  Are we better than we were.  No, simply because we did have a decent head coach  for a while but now we have a guy with a hell of a stunt to pull off in his first whole season (and I do hope it is a whole season) of making this team work to expectation.   
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: I Ronic on August 13, 2019, 12:00:41 PM
The fact that most of the incoming players have experience of this league and how to get promoted out of it. For me makes it a better squad. If it hadn't been for FFP how many of the incoming deals would have been straight transfers? An ordinary loan gives the Club who has the players registration the upper hand if at the end of the season you want to buy them. As we learned with both Mitro and Targett. A loan with a buy clause would suit us (in this situation) but surely be a much tougher deal to pull off.
None of our loanies in our promotion year would of had a clue what was going to happen to them come the end of the season. Even though there's no sure thing in football, as in life I'm willing to bet our current crop are pretty confident that if we're promoted they'll be with us next season. another reason for me to believe this is a better starting squad.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Forever Fulham on August 15, 2019, 01:07:51 PM
True team chemistry--had it under Slava until the band got broken up and the wheels came off.  An elusive ephemeral thing.  The signs look good this season under Scotty.  But it's early.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on August 15, 2019, 01:11:52 PM
We missed Fredericks when playing with Jokanovic.

Parker's system relies less on the full backs to provide width, rather they hold the defensive line and get involved with midfield ball retention.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Forever Fulham on August 15, 2019, 01:21:53 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on August 15, 2019, 01:11:52 PM
We missed Fredericks when playing with Jokanovic.

Parker's system relies less on the full backs to provide width, rather they hold the defensive line and get involved with midfield ball retention.
Absolutely right.  Last time in this league we had fullbacks bombing forward, and it gave defenses fits.  But that kind of system only works if everyone does their part well in transition once possession  is lost.  Now, wiith an improved midfield, the backs don't have to wander so far from home.  You'd think that means we won't get scored on so much this season.  But we play a gutsy style of football now.  One errant pass from the back and...
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: toshes mate on August 15, 2019, 01:31:58 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on August 15, 2019, 01:11:52 PM
We missed Fredericks when playing with Jokanovic.

Parker's system relies less on the full backs to provide width, rather they hold the defensive line and get involved with midfield ball retention.
I am hoping that system will develop into something more akin to Jokanovic's tactics once partnerships develop between backs and wingers.  It took quite a while for Jokanovic's sides to gel whenever changes in personnel were encountered.  Parker has done much better than I expected so far.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: Bill2 on August 15, 2019, 01:36:43 PM
Yes, good back up in the middle and up front just not sure about defence. In promotion year not sure we had anybody apart from starting 11.
Title: Re: Is this squad / team...........
Post by: SuffolkWhite on August 15, 2019, 01:56:31 PM
In answer to the Op, Yes.

I think our defence is no better or worse but our midfield is better with Mitro up top supported by Reid.