A decent talk through of the transfer window and pretty much confirmation we are going back in for Hector, but, astutely shifted the spotlight on to Scotty regarding lack of defenders coming in.
Good confirmation also of the situation re Ryan's transfer, as we suspected Levy is an utter tw**
Expects Steven Sess to be a starter at RB this season.
Very much Expects promotion as Scotty has all the tools he requires.
One question. Was that Sarah Brooke's interviewing him?
A very honest explanation of the transfer window. He & his team put in a lot of hours.Not as easy as some on here who allude to his job.
Very good insight into the transfer window good for TK to explain in detail the goings on and yes it did sound like Sarah Brooks doing the interview :54:
Quote from: grandad on August 12, 2019, 08:50:11 AM
A very honest explanation of the transfer window. He & his team put in a lot of hours.Not as easy as some on here who allude to his job.
I've never seen anyone claim it was easy - just that other clubs have more success, or systems we should be looking to.
Anyway, anyone with a TL;DR on the interview?
God knows why anyone would be happy to have Brookes back btw, but each to their own.
Can I just say what an excellent insight that interview was. TK gets alot of unwarranted flack on here, but everything he said makes sense. Good to hear that Parker is incredibly involved in the transfers, and that Ivan and Anthony were our top 2 targets. The club are being very sensible with the FFP stuff aswell, which can only be a good thing for the fans.
I reckon we'll be back in for Hector in January. Arter was very much a SP pick by the sounds of it, and seems like a masterstroke at this point.
What I thought was the most interesting about the whole thing, was how much interaction TK has with the players. Mentioning how he sat down with Mitro and SSess specifically to have frank conversations about their futures.
Sarah is the best interviewer we have ever had. We have missed her over the last couple of years.
Very informative, seems to be a very positive guy. Not to be underestimated. Really good interview. Should stop some of the groaning for awhile.
Quote from: grandad on August 12, 2019, 09:19:47 AM
Sarah is the best interviewer we have ever had. We have missed her over the last couple of years.
+1
Nice interview.
I'm willing to ride along with Tony as he has his growing pains as director of football as long as he learns from his mistakes.
Like I said...good transfer window.
We'll know after this season if Steven Sess is the future of our RB position. (Didn't know he was nursing an injury himself).
Come on Fulham!!
nearly 60 years i have had a season ticket, unbroken, same seat firstmy dad now with wife and kids...even when we were down to 2,000 people.
and the club expect me to pay to see interviews with the man that has single handedy take us backwards and even this window failed to improve the defence. i have to pay to see the captain speak too... i actually think this is a disgraceful insult to me and my loyalty and to others in a similar position.
i refuse to dignify the continuing insult by paying to hear their PR. It might be interesting to see but certainly not a reason to pay. It does lend weight to the idea the coporate owners of clubs are so discnnected with the fans. when it goes wrong they come crying to us to support them and the club, which last season I did week in week out, and yet I am not allowed to hear from the culprit of last season without paying.
just saying.
Thank goodness for Sarah Brookes, the consummate professional interviewer. A lot of fast talk from TK which could be taken in many different ways but I did note the polygraph was well hidden from view (just kidding folks).
Much better quality stuff from FFCTV (keep it up), and miles better than the infamous podcast from TK. He still doesn't convince me he is really competent, something that will not bother him in the least, but perhaps he is at least beginning to try to be better at his tasks.
Tony Khan out
Quote from: Ordar on August 12, 2019, 09:18:21 AM
Can I just say what an excellent insight that interview was. TK gets alot of unwarranted flack on here, but everything he said makes sense. Good to hear that Parker is incredibly involved in the transfers, and that Ivan and Anthony were our top 2 targets. The club are being very sensible with the FFP stuff aswell, which can only be a good thing for the fans.
I reckon we'll be back in for Hector in January. Arter was very much a SP pick by the sounds of it, and seems like a masterstroke at this point.
What I thought was the most interesting about the whole thing, was how much interaction TK has with the players. Mentioning how he sat down with Mitro and SSess specifically to have frank conversations about their futures.
Why do you find it interesting? He's DoFO - it is literally his job? Well, one of. If he isn't sitting down with them, who on Earth would be?
And when you say unwarranted, is it really? He himself has said he deserves to shoulder blame, so I could abide it if you said that some criticism was over the top, but unwarranted?
Agree with ALG - paying, or at least being expected to pay, to hear PR is really something. I'm sure they'll review this at some point.
Wasn't the interview behind a paywall? I am sure it would have supported my theory that TK isn't the idiot people claim him to be. But it also reiterates my theory that football is just screwing the fans out of money at every opportunity. When it is free I will listen to it.
Great interview. Good to be given some clarity. It seems like he is making a conscious effort to explain things a little more to the fans
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 12, 2019, 10:12:42 AM
Wasn't the interview behind a paywall? I am sure it would have supported my theory that TK isn't the idiot people claim him to be. But it also reiterates my theory that football is just screwing the fans out of money at every opportunity. When it is free I will listen to it.
I did start taking notes but gave up after about three minutes simply because TK's fast talk goes all over the place with repetitions and his self corrections obscuring coherency. The one redeeming feature was Sarah Brookes's summarizing of his answers often in very few words.
Quote from: grandad on August 12, 2019, 09:19:47 AM
Sarah is the best interviewer we have ever had. We have missed her over the last couple of years.
What a truly preposterous thing to post. Based on what exactly? The woman is toxic - ask any staffer at Motspur Park
Good interview and glad to see the willingness to inform the fanbase on how things went down.
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 10:02:03 AM
nearly 60 years i have had a season ticket, unbroken, same seat firstmy dad now with wife and kids...even when we were down to 2,000 people.
and the club expect me to pay to see interviews with the man that has single handedy take us backwards and even this window failed to improve the defence. i have to pay to see the captain speak too... i actually think this is a disgraceful insult to me and my loyalty and to others in a similar position.
i refuse to dignify the continuing insult by paying to hear their PR. It might be interesting to see but certainly not a reason to pay. It does lend weight to the idea the coporate owners of clubs are so discnnected with the fans. when it goes wrong they come crying to us to support them and the club, which last season I did week in week out, and yet I am not allowed to hear from the culprit of last season without paying.
just saying.
If you have seen the club down to 2,000 fans, then the phrase taken us backward is just wrong, you've seen Ernie Clay and you think what they have done is worse? For that I'm baffled. If you are saying worse than MAF you may have a point, but are they prepared to back the manager and the club financially? It certainly seems so to me.
I completely understand about the paywall though, I do find that odd. That is the sort of thing should be free for fans to see.
David Levy assumed Tony Khan would buy players before deadline day and be forced to sell Sessegnon or Cairney. Maybe David Levy isn't so smart, Tony Khan has proven himself capable of waiting til deadline day again and again.
When will people understand that a DOF doesn't have to do interviews like that. Thanks to Sarah for asking the questions that people wanted answered. Thank you to TK as well. If people don't want to pay that is their prerogative. I've paid and I am happy that I have. It beats the readings from the know it all moaners on this site. Saturday has shown that our defence is not as bad as the doom mongers have said.
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 10:02:03 AM
nearly 60 years i have had a season ticket, unbroken, same seat firstmy dad now with wife and kids...even when we were down to 2,000 people.
and the club expect me to pay to see interviews with the man that has single handedy take us backwards and even this window failed to improve the defence. i have to pay to see the captain speak too... i actually think this is a disgraceful insult to me and my loyalty and to others in a similar position.
i refuse to dignify the continuing insult by paying to hear their PR. It might be interesting to see but certainly not a reason to pay. It does lend weight to the idea the coporate owners of clubs are so discnnected with the fans. when it goes wrong they come crying to us to support them and the club, which last season I did week in week out, and yet I am not allowed to hear from the culprit of last season without paying.
just saying.
I'm with you, disgusting in my view.
Quote from: snarks on August 12, 2019, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 10:02:03 AM
nearly 60 years i have had a season ticket, unbroken, same seat firstmy dad now with wife and kids...even when we were down to 2,000 people.
and the club expect me to pay to see interviews with the man that has single handedy take us backwards and even this window failed to improve the defence. i have to pay to see the captain speak too... i actually think this is a disgraceful insult to me and my loyalty and to others in a similar position.
i refuse to dignify the continuing insult by paying to hear their PR. It might be interesting to see but certainly not a reason to pay. It does lend weight to the idea the coporate owners of clubs are so discnnected with the fans. when it goes wrong they come crying to us to support them and the club, which last season I did week in week out, and yet I am not allowed to hear from the culprit of last season without paying.
just saying.
If you have seen the club down to 2,000 fans, then the phrase taken us backward is just wrong, you've seen Ernie Clay and you think what they have done is worse? For that I'm baffled. If you are saying worse than MAF you may have a point, but are they prepared to back the manager and the club financially? It certainly seems so to me.
I completely understand about the paywall though, I do find that odd. That is the sort of thing should be free for fans to see.
1.Why do we have to compare TK to an owner, when the criticism is generally of their work within the club and not the Khan's intentions/ownership? Compare him to someone else in a similar professional role.
2. Why always compare to the worst? Do we have to have it at the point of the club being asset stripped before we can discuss failure? That is absurd.
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Quote from: snarks on August 12, 2019, 10:48:47 AM
If you have seen the club down to 2,000 fans, then the phrase taken us backward is just wrong, you've seen Ernie Clay and you think what they have done is worse? For that I'm baffled. If you are saying worse than MAF you may have a point, but are they prepared to back the manager and the club financially? It certainly seems so to me.
I completely understand about the paywall though, I do find that odd. That is the sort of thing should be free for fans to see.
Surely the "taking us backwards" comment does not mean that TK has taken us down to the worst point in the history of the club, because if he believed that I assume that ALGO1 would have written that. In this case I think you should take the comment as meaning exactly what it means, namely that we have gone backwards (as opposed to standing still or going forwards or sideways), which must be seen from a specific point in time (in this case it would surely be from when TK took over). Whether or not we have gone backwards is of course debatable.
Yeah, I'm fine with that, but it's am old trope people constantly pull out to defend (who knows why) failures. Since the Khan's took over we have gone backwards and since TK, we are stagnant - my personal view.
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Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 10:02:03 AM
nearly 60 years i have had a season ticket, unbroken, same seat firstmy dad now with wife and kids...even when we were down to 2,000 people.
and the club expect me to pay to see interviews with the man that has single handedy take us backwards and even this window failed to improve the defence. i have to pay to see the captain speak too... i actually think this is a disgraceful insult to me and my loyalty and to others in a similar position.
i refuse to dignify the continuing insult by paying to hear their PR. It might be interesting to see but certainly not a reason to pay. It does lend weight to the idea the coporate owners of clubs are so discnnected with the fans. when it goes wrong they come crying to us to support them and the club, which last season I did week in week out, and yet I am not allowed to hear from the culprit of last season without paying.
just saying.
Time to hang up your scarf mate :doh:
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 11:24:15 AM
Yeah, I'm fine with that, but it's am old trope people constantly pull out to defend (who knows why) failures. Since the Khan's took over we have gone backwards and since TK, we are stagnant - my personal view.
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When Al'Fayed sold us, he left us with an ageing squad. Relegation wasn't down to the Khans. The club in my opinion is way healthier now than it was in Al'fayed's last season. 100 million spent on Motspur, the same on Craven Cottage. A team which is miles better than what we had in the last season too.
Are people seriously complaining about paying £5 a month, or £45 per year for the FFTV service.... wow.... Thats the price of 1 beer a month. People need to get a grip.
Basically every single club in the country has the same sort of service, didnt they say when it was introduced that it was a mandatory fee from the EFL?
And how many DOF do you hear about doing these interviews? Basically zero. Whether the transfer policy has gone well or not is fine to be argued. But the Khans have put in miles more money into the club for stadium renovation, and the playing squad than any other owners that we've ever had. They're being responsible with FFP, and it was good to hear that he played hard ball with Levy
Quote from: Ordar on August 12, 2019, 11:29:40 AM
Are people seriously complaining about paying £5 a month, or £45 per year for the FFTV service.... wow.... Thats the price of 1 beer a month. People need to get a grip.
Basically every single club in the country has the same sort of service, didnt they say when it was introduced that it was a mandatory fee from the EFL?
Totally agree
And how many DOF do you hear about doing these interviews? Basically zero. Whether the transfer policy has gone well or not is fine to be argued. But the Khans have put in miles more money into the club for stadium renovation, and the playing squad than any other owners that we've ever had. They're being responsible with FFP, and it was good to hear that he played hard ball with Levy
Quote from: JoelH5 on August 12, 2019, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 11:24:15 AM
Yeah, I'm fine with that, but it's am old trope people constantly pull out to defend (who knows why) failures. Since the Khan's took over we have gone backwards and since TK, we are stagnant - my personal view.
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When Al'Fayed sold us, he left us with an ageing squad. Relegation wasn't down to the Khans. The club in my opinion is way healthier now than it was in Al'fayed's last season. 100 million spent on Motspur, the same on Craven Cottage. A team which is miles better than what we had in the last season too.
We all knew you'd think that, Joel!
Anyway, taking the thread off of the discussion, so let's not dwell on that question
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Quote from: Ordar on August 12, 2019, 11:29:40 AM
Are people seriously complaining about paying £5 a month, or £45 per year for the FFTV service.... wow.... Thats the price of 1 beer a month. People need to get a grip.
The cost of FFCTV is irrelevant to the argument that an interview with our co-owner, vice chair, and DoF should be free to all including those who don't wish to purchase FFCTV. What happens/ed in transfer windows should be accessible to all who support FFC although I do understand why the Offal hasn't transcribed what TK said, or provided subtitles or closed captions with the video/audio - it would take a month of Sundays.
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 11:36:36 AM
Quote from: JoelH5 on August 12, 2019, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 11:24:15 AM
Yeah, I'm fine with that, but it's am old trope people constantly pull out to defend (who knows why) failures. Since the Khan's took over we have gone backwards and since TK, we are stagnant - my personal view.
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When Al'Fayed sold us, he left us with an ageing squad. Relegation wasn't down to the Khans. The club in my opinion is way healthier now than it was in Al'fayed's last season. 100 million spent on Motspur, the same on Craven Cottage. A team which is miles better than what we had in the last season too.
We all knew you'd think that, Joel!
Anyway, taking the thread off of the discussion, so let's not dwell on that question
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Ok Statto
Quote from: Ordar on August 12, 2019, 11:29:40 AM
Are people seriously complaining about paying £5 a month, or £45 per year for the FFTV service.... wow.... Thats the price of 1 beer a month. People need to get a grip.
Basically every single club in the country has the same sort of service, didnt they say when it was introduced that it was a mandatory fee from the EFL?
And how many DOF do you hear about doing these interviews? Basically zero. Whether the transfer policy has gone well or not is fine to be argued. But the Khans have put in miles more money into the club for stadium renovation, and the playing squad than any other owners that we've ever had. They're being responsible with FFP, and it was good to hear that he played hard ball with Levy
Yes, we are.
And it is in TK's benefit to do them. It is mutually beneficial after all, no?
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Quote from: JoelH5 on August 12, 2019, 11:41:37 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 11:36:36 AM
Quote from: JoelH5 on August 12, 2019, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 11:24:15 AM
Yeah, I'm fine with that, but it's am old trope people constantly pull out to defend (who knows why) failures. Since the Khan's took over we have gone backwards and since TK, we are stagnant - my personal view.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
When Al'Fayed sold us, he left us with an ageing squad. Relegation wasn't down to the Khans. The club in my opinion is way healthier now than it was in Al'fayed's last season. 100 million spent on Motspur, the same on Craven Cottage. A team which is miles better than what we had in the last season too.
We all knew you'd think that, Joel!
Anyway, taking the thread off of the discussion, so let's not dwell on that question
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Ok Statto
Nope. New pseudonym on here after removing an older account, but not posting as anyone else.
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My God
When the classiest stand in the country is built and FFC are back in the Premier League we expect to have
AlGO1 and Dr Quinzal back on here singing a duet " for he's a jolly good fellow"
To call Snarks "absurd" because he believes our club is in a decent place is quite frankly daft.
Regarding the paywall........ I would pay double for access and my first game was in 1956.
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 09:16:11 AM
Quote from: grandad on August 12, 2019, 08:50:11 AM
A very honest explanation of the transfer window. He & his team put in a lot of hours.Not as easy as some on here who allude to his job.
I've never seen anyone claim it was easy - just that other clubs have more success, or systems we should be looking to.
Anyway, anyone with a TL;DR on the interview?
God knows why anyone would be happy to have Brookes back btw, but each to their own.
Name all of the other clubs that have more success?
Quote from: Fernhurst on August 12, 2019, 11:52:32 AM
My God
When the classiest stand in the country is built and FFC are back in the Premier League we expect to have
AlGO1 and Dr Quinzal back on here singing a duet " for he's a jolly good fellow"
To call Snarks "absurd" because he believes our club is in a decent place is quite frankly daft.
Regarding the paywall........ I would pay double for access and my first game was in 1956.
Not what I said nor intended Fenhurst.
I said it is absurd when people only compare the Khan's to the worst possible ownership in order to argue everything in the most positive light. It's better to be more balanced than that.
I have never knocked Shad nor Tony for their intentions, only Tony for his ability and results, and Shad for appointing him at all. And when Tony does well, which he does occasionally, I'll always credit too.
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Sounds like my theory that Poch was pressuring Levy to get the deal done is correct.
The Bobby Reid loan is a transfer in all but name it seems, probably a gentleman's agreement that they'll get the rest of the fee in January.
Happy to hear that Steven Sess will get a shot.
Also, there was apparently a €50 million bid for Mitro from China, hadn't heard of that before.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on August 12, 2019, 11:53:49 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 09:16:11 AM
Quote from: grandad on August 12, 2019, 08:50:11 AM
A very honest explanation of the transfer window. He & his team put in a lot of hours.Not as easy as some on here who allude to his job.
I've never seen anyone claim it was easy - just that other clubs have more success, or systems we should be looking to.
Anyway, anyone with a TL;DR on the interview?
God knows why anyone would be happy to have Brookes back btw, but each to their own.
Name all of the other clubs that have more success?
Brentford have a more successful transfer strategy than us. Barnsley. West Ham. Burnley. That is just off of the top of my head and without thinking about Europe. There's plenty of teams doing well, better and that we can learn from.
Anyway, like I said - this is for a different thread. Back to discussing the interview. Anyone fancy a tl;dr?
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Quote from: Sting of the North on August 12, 2019, 11:14:07 AM
Quote from: snarks on August 12, 2019, 10:48:47 AM
If you have seen the club down to 2,000 fans, then the phrase taken us backward is just wrong, you've seen Ernie Clay and you think what they have done is worse? For that I'm baffled. If you are saying worse than MAF you may have a point, but are they prepared to back the manager and the club financially? It certainly seems so to me.
I completely understand about the paywall though, I do find that odd. That is the sort of thing should be free for fans to see.
Surely the "taking us backwards" comment does not mean that TK has taken us down to the worst point in the history of the club, because if he believed that I assume that ALGO1 would have written that. In this case I think you should take the comment as meaning exactly what it means, namely that we have gone backwards (as opposed to standing still or going forwards or sideways), which must be seen from a specific point in time (in this case it would surely be from when TK took over). Whether or not we have gone backwards is of course debatable.
Thank you for that explanation. I thought my intent was clear but you have summed up much more succinctly than i would have done.
I do have some sympathy with the view that such an interview should be available to all and not behind the paywall. However I found it rather refreshing to hear some things first hand rather than via social media and the press. My main gripe though is his use of the word 'I' all the time. The team behind transfers are just that - a team. I would expect to see the word 'we' used, even if it were TK having the conversations. For the record imho it was very pleasant listening to Sarah's voice again after all this time.
Quote from: JoelH5 on August 12, 2019, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 11:24:15 AM
Yeah, I'm fine with that, but it's am old trope people constantly pull out to defend (who knows why) failures. Since the Khan's took over we have gone backwards and since TK, we are stagnant - my personal view.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
When Al'Fayed sold us, he left us with an ageing squad. Relegation wasn't down to the Khans. The club in my opinion is way healthier now than it was in Al'fayed's last season. 100 million spent on Motspur, the same on Craven Cottage. A team which is miles better than what we had in the last season too.
Do you not think that from when MAF picked us up we steadilly got better including a european final. The ptogress was obvious. However he was clearly getting older himself and was divesting himself from many businesses. The squad was in need of surgery but not major.IMO since the khan's took over their inexperience and unwillingness to learn from errors has seen us generally decline, the relegation being a spectacular failure to listen.
We may be spending fortunes on infastracture and PR but the team is in decline. Not getting a defence is ridiculous and blaming it on spurs like a 9 year old saying the dog ate his homework.
You can mute people all you want but I can only say what i see rather endlessly trying to defend the indefensible. I listen to what others say and try and learn from it.
I thought it was informative. Not too many surprises. I'll continue to slag/criticise TK though especially with regards to certain perceived oversights, like the defence, but this is one persons view vs. another and I am not paying for it, he is.
The real difference though was Sarah Brooks. Talk about bringing in the big guns. I thought she had moved on???
[
I would say the last 2 - 3 years of MAF (following Roy's departure) were decline, very noticeably so. When SK took over, I think relegation was close to inevitable, the squad was old, Jol had lost interest (and had asked to go but was told no) The Khan's were caught out by their lack of knowledge.
Since then TK has not done the best job, but he hasn't done the worst either. For all the flack he is getting now, Mike Rigg before him didn't do a great job. At least TK took the time to get Slav, and let him get/gave him the players to play to his system so that we got promoted. So I would say we have approximately stood still overall since the last season of MAF, and we have improved since the days of Mike Rigg.
You may say it's defending the indefensible, I say it's arguing against a clear prejudice.
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: JoelH5 on August 12, 2019, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 11:24:15 AM
Yeah, I'm fine with that, but it's am old trope people constantly pull out to defend (who knows why) failures. Since the Khan's took over we have gone backwards and since TK, we are stagnant - my personal view.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
When Al'Fayed sold us, he left us with an ageing squad. Relegation wasn't down to the Khans. The club in my opinion is way healthier now than it was in Al'fayed's last season. 100 million spent on Motspur, the same on Craven Cottage. A team which is miles better than what we had in the last season too.
Do you not think that from when MAF picked us up we steadilly got better including a european final. The ptogress was obvious. However he was clearly getting older himself and was divesting himself from many businesses. The squad was in need of surgery but not major.IMO since the khan's took over their inexperience and unwillingness to learn from errors has seen us generally decline, the relegation being a spectacular failure to listen.
We may be spending fortunes on infastracture and PR but the team is in decline. Not getting a defence is ridiculous and blaming it on spurs like a 9 year old saying the dog ate his homework.
You can mute people all you want but I can only say what i see rather endlessly trying to defend the indefensible. I listen to what others say and try and learn from it.
What defenders should they have gotten? I can't think of a Championship team that has a magical back four.
I feel like some supporters won't be happy until TK spends Maginot Line level francs on the defense.
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
No, that would mean that TK would no longer be DoF. Whether or not that would mean we get less money to spend is not necessarily related at all, since it is not TKs money. In either case we will most likely not find out in a very long time.
If we are to take him at his word, Scott Parker was pretty happy with the defense and wanted attacking players first and foremost.
Then the question is, should he listen to his manager or should he ignore their input like he supposedly did with Joka?
Very good interview and also extremely interesting.
Tony was open and gave us a great explanation of many things, especially interested to hear that Scott is so involved, giving midfield and attack as a priority over defence was interesting if maybe a little odd. But it's not unreasonable to think Mawson and Ream are good enough and not unreasonable to want to give S.S. A chance at right back.
Standing tough on Ryan was good hear and forcing Levy to pay what he is worth also very good.
I honestly don't understand why people see this interview as anything other than very positive and excellent communication from the club.
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
PS Haven't seen a TK out in this thread?
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
Be very careful what you wish for.
Quote from: Tabby on August 12, 2019, 12:53:24 PM
If we are to take him at his word, Scott Parker was pretty happy with the defense and wanted attacking players first and foremost.
Then the question is, should he listen to his manager or should he ignore their input like he supposedly did with Joka?
Didn't Scott recently have a public quote where he wanted defenders? We only hear bits and pieces, and it obviously changes as time goes by I'm sure, but that would seem to fly in the face of that. All a bit confusing.
Virtually no EPL club is financially self sustaining without a subsidy or benign owner.
TV revenues are probably maxed out, particularly for the EPL.
The only way out of this is:
1) A wages cap for the industry
2) Ticket prices to go up massively (i.e. double)
So, be very careful what you bellyache about.
Quote from: FulhamStu on August 12, 2019, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
Be very careful what you wish for.
Not wishing for it - just saying, if the owner would rather sell than remove his son if things came down to it, is that the owner we really want? It's a hypothetical nonsense regardless, as I don't have any belief SK is that kind of man, but it's often spouted that it could be the case.
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 12, 2019, 12:53:24 PM
If we are to take him at his word, Scott Parker was pretty happy with the defense and wanted attacking players first and foremost.
Then the question is, should he listen to his manager or should he ignore their input like he supposedly did with Joka?
Didn't Scott recently have a public quote where he wanted defenders? We only hear bits and pieces, and it obviously changes as time goes by I'm sure, but that would seem to fly in the face of that. All a bit confusing.
I can't recall Scott ever saying that we needed defenders. He has said that we need "reinforcements", but that is it as far as I know.
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
PS Haven't seen a TK out in this thread?
That was what I was saying during the transfer season, I think the fans are ok with Tony this time around.
I think the Tony's hardcore fanclub are just too sensitive with every small critical comments of him or they are getting bored with all the positivity, haha
Quote from: Tabby on August 12, 2019, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 12, 2019, 12:53:24 PM
If we are to take him at his word, Scott Parker was pretty happy with the defense and wanted attacking players first and foremost.
Then the question is, should he listen to his manager or should he ignore their input like he supposedly did with Joka?
Didn't Scott recently have a public quote where he wanted defenders? We only hear bits and pieces, and it obviously changes as time goes by I'm sure, but that would seem to fly in the face of that. All a bit confusing.
I can't recall Scott ever saying that we needed defenders. He has said that we need "reinforcements", but that is it as far as I know.
I am fairly sure he mentioned that we still (after reinforcing the attack) needed to strengthen in midfield and defense. This is also what TK stated in the interview, but expanded on this that according to SP our priorities had been attack and midfield first, defense last. And for defense he wanted a CB, not RB. Therefore, had we gotten Hector over the line we had acquired all our top targets (according to TK). No obvious contradictions at all.
Quote from: ..FOF.. on August 12, 2019, 01:40:10 PM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
PS Haven't seen a TK out in this thread?
That was what I was saying during the transfer season, I think the fans are ok with Tony this time around.
I think the Tony's hardcore fanclub are just too sensitive with every small critical comments of him or they are getting bored with all the positivity, haha
There is one on the first page, which probably set this off.
Quote from: ffcthereligion on August 12, 2019, 10:09:43 AM
Tony Khan out
Sounds like TK has played a blinder on a PR front - He sounds as if he's just been reading this board for the last two or three weeks, and someone at Fulham has too - they've given him a briefing document on what topics to talk about and broach and addressed them in a way which appeases people.
I could've given the answer TK would've given knowing what I've read on this board in the last couple of weeks. None of it is original or too insightful. All of it absolves him from blame too. Which is a long way from him receiving the wrath of our fanbase for telling fans to 'go to hell'.
As a director of Football you can still use your own brain and realise that 6 (max seven including steven sessegnon) is not a strong enough defence and backup to keep going in this league unless you're very lucky. To say Scotty prioritised Midfield and Attack may be true, but it doesn't make any mention of Scotty not wanting Defence and the fact he's acknowledged Hector being on the books for January, shows to me that there was an intention to recruit a defender - where they haven't and subsequently leaves us in a potentially vulnerable place in defence.
Now - he's playing a game of risk and luck with our defence. Mawson on his day is a premiership level defender but has historically been a sick-note. That leaves us back with the defence that is worse than our defence that got us promoted. Plus we kept a clean sheet against blackburn who are already rooted to the bottom of the table and so gives no genuine gauge of how our defensive unit is. Their only saving grace is being able to train against Mitro, Bobby Reid, Knockaert and Cavaleiro who will all test them.
I'm happy to give TK the credit he deserves when it's merited, and equally I'm going to criticise him if their are area's he deserves it. Since the Khan's have taken over, he has overseen a lot of instability in this club. Al Fayed chucked less money into this club in his tenure, then TK threw into the club in a summer or two.. Regardless of our tenue in the premiership, we weren't a yoyo club and staying in the league is more of an accomplishment than getting promoted and relegated etc.
The reason why I'm critical of TK, apart from his inability of lack of desire to genuinely take on board criticism as a means by which to improve himself is because he always tends to make similar mistakes or leave jobs half complete.
Last summer, and the summer we had going in to the premiership he addressed our defence last minute (probably because he sees it as a less sexy position to be working towards recruiting) and when we went down from the premiership, both seasons, we've gone through a ridiculous three managers a season. Stability is so important. He's a kid in a toy shop.
Even as fun as it is seeing us win games in the championship and winning at Wembley, it still isn't the level we should/can be at and so I always see it, given the Al Fayed years in particular, as a step tainted by the fact that we should be in the premiership and staying there. Al fayed managed it despite numerous shocking managers and a limited budget.
To add insult I think it's atrocious for a football club to put exclusive content like player interviews and generally important brand information in terms of bringing in new fans and engaging them in a meaningful way, where they perhaps haven't got that exisiting affinity to the club and it needs to be built behind a F****ing paywall. It's not only ludicrous for those reasons in terms of building a business defined by it's ability to foster partnerships/relationships but also for the fact that it hasn't seen a decrease or stabilisation of ticket sales - when we went up to the premiership, lower catergory games were still being sold or trying to be sold for higher price brackets than ever before. It's a pure money making scheme which is not only detrimental to the future generations and growth to the club, but also an insult to people who put their money into the club despite it's constant intention to charge more and more, disregarding fans who may love Fulham but simply don't fit the general statistics of Fulham fans being affluent - it alienates an entire section of our fan base and in all honesty I would like to see FST bring it up in quite serious terms at their next meeting with Ali Mac.
Quote from: fulhamphil on August 12, 2019, 10:38:52 AM
Sarah is the best interviewer we have ever had. We have missed her over the last couple of years.
What a truly preposterous thing to post. Based on what exactly? The woman is toxic - ask any staffer at Motspur Park.
Thought she conducted the interview well and isn't she also a Fulham fan? Why do you describe her as being toxic out of interest?
Quote from: Sting of the North on August 12, 2019, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 12, 2019, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 12, 2019, 12:53:24 PM
If we are to take him at his word, Scott Parker was pretty happy with the defense and wanted attacking players first and foremost.
Then the question is, should he listen to his manager or should he ignore their input like he supposedly did with Joka?
Didn't Scott recently have a public quote where he wanted defenders? We only hear bits and pieces, and it obviously changes as time goes by I'm sure, but that would seem to fly in the face of that. All a bit confusing.
I can't recall Scott ever saying that we needed defenders. He has said that we need "reinforcements", but that is it as far as I know.
I am fairly sure he mentioned that we still (after reinforcing the attack) needed to strengthen in midfield and defense. This is also what TK stated in the interview, but expanded on this that according to SP our priorities had been attack and midfield first, defense last. And for defense he wanted a CB, not RB. Therefore, had we gotten Hector over the line we had acquired all our top targets (according to TK). No obvious contradictions at all.
Thanks for that.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 12, 2019, 11:38:53 AM
Quote from: Ordar on August 12, 2019, 11:29:40 AM
Are people seriously complaining about paying £5 a month, or £45 per year for the FFTV service.... wow.... Thats the price of 1 beer a month. People need to get a grip.
The cost of FFCTV is irrelevant to the argument that an interview with our co-owner, vice chair, and DoF should be free to all including those who don't wish to purchase FFCTV. What happens/ed in transfer windows should be accessible to all who support FFC although I do understand why the Offal hasn't transcribed what TK said, or provided subtitles or closed captions with the video/audio - it would take a month of Sundays.
Any financial accounts released to the public that may affect the credit rating of the club are not allowed to be behind a pay-wall, surely interviews with the owner, co-owner and CEO should be in the same category. Only entertainment such as player inteviews or past games etc should be behind a paywall.
Quote from: Fulham 442 on August 12, 2019, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: fulhamphil on August 12, 2019, 10:38:52 AM
Sarah is the best interviewer we have ever had. We have missed her over the last couple of years.
What a truly preposterous thing to post. Based on what exactly? The woman is toxic - ask any staffer at Motspur Park.
Thought she conducted the interview well and isn't she also a Fulham fan? Why do you describe her as being toxic out of interest?
Probably best left off of the board for the sake of the mods/board owners tbh.
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 01:17:43 PM
Virtually no EPL club is financially self sustaining without a subsidy or benign owner.
TV revenues are probably maxed out, particularly for the EPL.
The only way out of this is:
1) A wages cap for the industry
2) Ticket prices to go up massively (i.e. double)
So, be very careful what you bellyache about.
Interesting article in todays Times about Stevenage. Their owner saying that their income is maximised as they cannot increase ticket prices any further, the players are paid at the going rate and the entire model is unsustainable as it stands. In that sense we are fortunate to have the owner we have.
The posts treating this as a victory for anyone who's defended TK in recent months seem pretty boorish and misguided to me. TK essentially confirms that most of what the "TK haters" have been saying lately is indeed true, despite those on the other side of the argument always saying "we don't know what happens behind the scenes." For example, it seems we did indeed fail with a last-minute move for Hector, and hold out for every penny of our asking price for Sessegnon. So I think a lot of questions remain, not least, why was signing a CB our lowest priority according to TK when almost every poster on here thought it should be our #1 priority?
In fairness, it did also contain some positive (albeit unsurprising) information, eg, Steven Sessegnon is expected to break into the first team this year, Parker is properly involved in the recruitment process, we made good use of creative structures on several transfers this summer, Mitrovic was persuaded to choose us over more money in China, etc.
Overall I think it was a really good video (personally I don't care about the paywall) because it showed a bit of humility. He admitted that there was nothing (or almost nothing) positive we could take from last season. He referred to certain criticisms I've read on here, suggesting he pays attention to this forum and/or what other fans are saying on social media. Even his clothes (no tie or glasses) and body language seemed very different to what I've seen before - very humble and sincere. This is all reinforced by our change of approach this summer (specifically, signing players with Championship experience, and making sure we've an option to make loan signings permanent) which suggests TK is admitting, and learning from, previous errors.
Much different to the FST meeting back in March - perhaps the minutes of that meeting misrepresented him slightly.
Let's see how the next few months go.
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:54:12 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on August 12, 2019, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 12, 2019, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 12, 2019, 12:53:24 PM
If we are to take him at his word, Scott Parker was pretty happy with the defense and wanted attacking players first and foremost.
Then the question is, should he listen to his manager or should he ignore their input like he supposedly did with Joka?
Didn't Scott recently have a public quote where he wanted defenders? We only hear bits and pieces, and it obviously changes as time goes by I'm sure, but that would seem to fly in the face of that. All a bit confusing.
I can't recall Scott ever saying that we needed defenders. He has said that we need "reinforcements", but that is it as far as I know.
I am fairly sure he mentioned that we still (after reinforcing the attack) needed to strengthen in midfield and defense. This is also what TK stated in the interview, but expanded on this that according to SP our priorities had been attack and midfield first, defense last. And for defense he wanted a CB, not RB. Therefore, had we gotten Hector over the line we had acquired all our top targets (according to TK). No obvious contradictions at all.
Thanks for that.
This is the Parker quote you may be thinking of:
"I think that I would probably need some more in that area [defence], and probably in midfield as well, where we're a little bit thin," the Whites boss said.
"We all realise that this game is a team sport and you need to rely on your squad, so we certainly need to add a bit more in those areas. I'm sure we will over the coming 10 days.
"I feel like we've done some good business in the front half of the pitch."
https://www.westlondonsport.com/fulham/parker-predicts-more-fulham-signings
Yep, that was the comment I was thinking of - thank you. If it was 10 days prior to the window closing/season starting (not sure when), then it does ring true with TK's comments.
Quote from: SG on August 12, 2019, 12:13:57 PM
I do have some sympathy with the view that such an interview should be available to all and not behind the paywall. However I found it rather refreshing to hear some things first hand rather than via social media and the press. My main gripe though is his use of the word 'I' all the time. The team behind transfers are just that - a team. I would expect to see the word 'we' used, even if it were TK having the conversations. For the record imho it was very pleasant listening to Sarah's voice again after all this time.
He said "We" a lot, if not more than "I". Think it's a non-issue personally. Good interview overall.
Good points Statto
With regard to the CB clearly SP thought with a fit Mawson, Ream in a division in which he is comfortable, and Denis having proved he's OK as a CB in the Championship, not to mention MLM who should be OK (similar level to the French league) we should be OK.
He can obviously see that KMac has dropped a level so that was a priority and Ayite has never been fit for a full season. I can see why support for Mitro was/is a higher priority.
Good, lengthy interview and even better to know that Sarah is back (apparently).
Incidentally I thought the Chairman's page in Saturday's programme was first class, too. I also don't think it was written by a PR team. It is well-written, lucid and sincere and reflects exactly the personality that comes over in his filmed interviews. Therefore I think it's written by the man himself. We are lucky to have him.
I don't know why people baulk at paying £5 per month (or whatever) for FFC TV. In the great scheme of things it's a pittance. To not do so, even on principle, is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's for dedicated Fulham fans and it's a good service, much improved this season (teething problems notwithstanding).
I'm very happy with things at Fulham at the moment and excited for what lies ahead. Good to hear from TK himself, too. It's only the dedicated moaners that I'm not happy about.
Quote from: General on August 12, 2019, 01:49:47 PM
...
As a director of Football you can still use your own brain and realise that 6 (max seven including steven sessegnon) is not a strong enough defence and backup to keep going in this league unless you're very lucky. To say Scotty prioritised Midfield and Attack may be true, but it doesn't make any mention of Scotty not wanting Defence and the fact he's acknowledged Hector being on the books for January, shows to me that there was an intention to recruit a defender - where they haven't and subsequently leaves us in a potentially vulnerable place in defence.
Now - he's playing a game of risk and luck with our defence. Mawson on his day is a premiership level defender but has historically been a sick-note. That leaves us back with the defence that is worse than our defence that got us promoted. Plus we kept a clean sheet against blackburn who are already rooted to the bottom of the table and so gives no genuine gauge of how our defensive unit is. Their only saving grace is being able to train against Mitro, Bobby Reid, Knockaert and Cavaleiro who will all test them.
...
The reason why I'm critical of TK, apart from his inability of lack of desire to genuinely take on board criticism as a means by which to improve himself is because he always tends to make similar mistakes or leave jobs half complete.
...
Just a few comments on parts of your post (cut out the rest in order to not take up a full page):
- It is very clear from the interview that Steven Sess should be counted and that he tried to acquire another central defender (he stated this outright very clearly). That would have left us with 8 first team defenders (not counting Djalo), which I would argue is about what you can reasonably expect to afford. Hopefully some of the youngsters can make up the numbers in case we get many injuries/suspensions at the same time.
- To describe any team as "rooted to the bottom of the table" after 2 out of 46 games is not really strengthening your argument in my opinion.
- Do you not think that working closer with the head coach as well as signing only players with experience of the Championship might be a sign of TK improving himself?
An excellent and informative interview. Also great to hear Sarah's voice again.
Quote from: Matt10 on August 12, 2019, 02:15:03 PM
Quote from: SG on August 12, 2019, 12:13:57 PM
I do have some sympathy with the view that such an interview should be available to all and not behind the paywall. However I found it rather refreshing to hear some things first hand rather than via social media and the press. My main gripe though is his use of the word 'I' all the time. The team behind transfers are just that - a team. I would expect to see the word 'we' used, even if it were TK having the conversations. For the record imho it was very pleasant listening to Sarah's voice again after all this time.
He said "We" a lot, if not more than "I". Think it's a non-issue personally. Good interview overall.
I have to agree he said "I" way too often. It's almost as if he reads this Board and Twitter and listens to the Podcasts as a lot of this seemed to be very specifically addressing criticism of TK and the lack of signings in defense. I think he is relatively sensitive and wants to be liked, he wants people to think he has done a good job. Yes, he mentions the scouting and stats team and Parker but all the actions are described as "I did this, I did that". The whole FFP compliance saga seemed overblown, they knew they had the money coming Reed was already done as a loan so he had 3 hours to get Hector done, asusming they had at leats done some of the contingent work like medical and contracts, 'subject to' etc.
In my opinion TK has got better with each window. We now have a majority of players in the squad that have played in this league and been promoted out of it. If we're successful a fair few of them will have Premier league experience as well. I thought we'd lost the chance to get a meaningful amount of cash for Sess given he only wanted to go to Spuds and there was almost nothing on his contract (if the roles and clubs were reversed TK would be getting some serious grief on this board currently) He and his team held their nerve and Levy buckled. We've held on to most of the players that came in last year. So there's a good chance the Club will re-coup most of what they spent at some point in the relative near future.
Quote from: Statto on August 12, 2019, 02:06:52 PM
The posts treating this as a victory for anyone who's defended TK in recent months seem pretty boorish and misguided to me. TK essentially confirms that most of what the "TK haters" have been saying lately is indeed true, despite those on the other side of the argument always saying "we don't know what happens behind the scenes." For example, it seems we did indeed fail with a last-minute move for Hector, and hold out for every penny of our asking price for Sessegnon. So I think a lot of questions remain, not least, why was signing a CB our lowest priority according to TK when almost every poster on here thought it should be our #1 priority?
...
Didn't he answer this very clearly stating that the priority was according to SP (Attack/midfield first, defense last)? It may not be true, but I am fairly certain he claimed this to be the case. I hope it is true, because I rather he listens to SP than to fans.
Quote from: YoungsBitter on August 12, 2019, 02:26:56 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on August 12, 2019, 02:15:03 PM
Quote from: SG on August 12, 2019, 12:13:57 PM
I do have some sympathy with the view that such an interview should be available to all and not behind the paywall. However I found it rather refreshing to hear some things first hand rather than via social media and the press. My main gripe though is his use of the word 'I' all the time. The team behind transfers are just that - a team. I would expect to see the word 'we' used, even if it were TK having the conversations. For the record imho it was very pleasant listening to Sarah's voice again after all this time.
He said "We" a lot, if not more than "I". Think it's a non-issue personally. Good interview overall.
I have to agree he said "I" way too often. It's almost as if he reads this Board and Twitter and listens to the Podcasts as a lot of this seemed to be very specifically addressing criticism of TK and the lack of signings in defense. I think he is relatively sensitive and wants to be liked, he wants people to think he has done a good job. Yes, he mentions the scouting and stats team and Parker but all the actions are described as "I did this, I did that". The whole FFP compliance saga seemed overblown, they knew they had the money coming Reed was already done as a loan so he had 3 hours to get Hector done, asusming they had at leats done some of the contingent work like medical and contracts, 'subject to' etc.
Sigh.
Yes, he's done a good job. Parker is pleased, isn't that a good job? Most on here are pleased as well.
I mean, as I always say, the guy can't win. He's up against people on here that will never, ever, be satisfied, who fight against the ones that are realistic about their satisfaction.
The interview was good, and it's down to each of our perspectives on what to take away from it. To me, I took away that he and Parker are linked in their discussions - and on the same page. He addressed the situation with not getting Hector, and why that came about. He also addressed Sess's contract and eventual transfer.
I take it as facts because I am not privvy to the "inner-workings" or tin-foil hat conspiracy theories of behind the scenes that some would love to come to fruition - even if it means the club goes down, but as long as TK is out along with it. Please.
Sarah is the best interviewer we have ever had. We have missed her over the last couple of years.
What a truly preposterous thing to post. Based on what exactly? The woman is toxic - ask any staffer at Motspur Park.
Thought she conducted the interview well and isn't she also a Fulham fan? Why do you describe her as being toxic out of interest?
[/quote]
Probably best left off of the board for the sake of the mods/board owners tbh.
Okay no worries.
Quote from: Sting of the North on August 12, 2019, 02:29:11 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 12, 2019, 02:06:52 PM
The posts treating this as a victory for anyone who's defended TK in recent months seem pretty boorish and misguided to me. TK essentially confirms that most of what the "TK haters" have been saying lately is indeed true, despite those on the other side of the argument always saying "we don't know what happens behind the scenes." For example, it seems we did indeed fail with a last-minute move for Hector, and hold out for every penny of our asking price for Sessegnon. So I think a lot of questions remain, not least, why was signing a CB our lowest priority according to TK when almost every poster on here thought it should be our #1 priority?
...
Didn't he answer this very clearly stating that the priority was according to SP (Attack/midfield first, defense last)? It may not be true, but I am fairly certain he claimed this to be the case. I hope it is true, because I rather he listens to SP than to fans.
I'd treat those claims (that SP, rather than TK, decided our priorities) with mild caution for several reasons, but ultimately, I'm not really concerned who's to blame. Contrary to what some (admittedly not you) think on here, I don't really have a personal problem with TK and would just as readily direct this criticism to SP if indeed the prioritisation was down to him.
Generally I agree that senior management should listen to the manager rather than fans, but when all 20,000+ fans consistently and strongly believe the same thing, they're not going to be wrong. So if TK/SP though differently, that would worry me.
Quote from: Statto on August 12, 2019, 02:41:21 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on August 12, 2019, 02:29:11 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 12, 2019, 02:06:52 PM
The posts treating this as a victory for anyone who's defended TK in recent months seem pretty boorish and misguided to me. TK essentially confirms that most of what the "TK haters" have been saying lately is indeed true, despite those on the other side of the argument always saying "we don't know what happens behind the scenes." For example, it seems we did indeed fail with a last-minute move for Hector, and hold out for every penny of our asking price for Sessegnon. So I think a lot of questions remain, not least, why was signing a CB our lowest priority according to TK when almost every poster on here thought it should be our #1 priority?
...
Didn't he answer this very clearly stating that the priority was according to SP (Attack/midfield first, defense last)? It may not be true, but I am fairly certain he claimed this to be the case. I hope it is true, because I rather he listens to SP than to fans.
I'd treat those claims (that SP, rather than TK, decided our priorities) with mild caution for several reasons, but ultimately, I'm not really concerned who's to blame. Contrary to what some (admittedly not you) think on here, I don't have a personal problem with TK and would just as readily direct this criticism to SP if indeed the prioritisation was down to him.
Generally I agree that senior management should listen to the manager rather than fans, but when 20,000 consistently and strongly believe the same thing, they're not going to be wrong. So if TK/SP though differently, that would worry me.
The problem last season was with conceding goals, so naturally fans want new defenders, but what if Parker considers the problem was with lack of defensive cover from midfield and forwards (e.g. Schullre and Mitrovoic). I though at the start of this window what we needed was two top first team wingers, backup centre forward and repalcements for Seri/Anguissa (especially to cover Cairney and Johansen). Another RCB would be nice, but no point buying a defenders if they aren't a major upgrade from Ream and MLM (for example Kalas is an upgrade but a minor upgrade).
Quote from: David Allen Crankshaw on August 12, 2019, 02:24:40 PM
An excellent and informative interview. Also great to hear Sarah's voice again.
0001.jpeg :plus one:
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 10:02:03 AM
nearly 60 years i have had a season ticket, unbroken, same seat firstmy dad now with wife and kids...even when we were down to 2,000 people.
and the club expect me to pay to see interviews with the man that has single handedy take us backwards and even this window failed to improve the defence. i have to pay to see the captain speak too... i actually think this is a disgraceful insult to me and my loyalty and to others in a similar position.
i refuse to dignify the continuing insult by paying to hear their PR. It might be interesting to see but certainly not a reason to pay. It does lend weight to the idea the coporate owners of clubs are so discnnected with the fans. when it goes wrong they come crying to us to support them and the club, which last season I did week in week out, and yet I am not allowed to hear from the culprit of last season without paying.
just saying.
Totally agree I'm Fulham through and through but I refuse to pay for it, if my local team little old Torquay Utd can do it free of charge why can't Fulham?
With the Khans in charge of the club I feel that they are doing their very best. Some may think that it is not good enough but Craven Cottage is being developed into a modern stadium. Motspur Park with the addition of the Old Bank Ground is also developing into a top class training base. The club has come a long way from the days of training on Wimbledon Common. Good on the Khans and I hope they are the guardians of the club for many years to come.
Hear, hear ..... do you think they should have a stand named after them??? :dft012:
Quote from: Ordar on August 12, 2019, 11:29:40 AM
Are people seriously complaining about paying £5 a month, or £45 per year for the FFTV service.... wow.... Thats the price of 1 beer a month. People need to get a grip.
Basically every single club in the country has the same sort of service, didnt they say when it was introduced that it was a mandatory fee from the EFL?
And how many DOF do you hear about doing these interviews? Basically zero. Whether the transfer policy has gone well or not is fine to be argued. But the Khans have put in miles more money into the club for stadium renovation, and the playing squad than any other owners that we've ever had. They're being responsible with FFP, and it was good to hear that he played hard ball with Levy
the money as you say is not excessive, I could aford it and the owners have obviously invested a fortune, no question.
But here's the thing. This is a mega point of pronciple. to hear a interviews with people I am paying for, that I have invested my time, money and emotion in for nearly 60 years, to have a five season tickets costng me fortunes in time and money, I think that, as a matter of principle should be free. i do nto for a second give any kind of mind to what others do, I think we should be better. to have to pay to hear our owners son speak is outrageous the idea I should have to pay to hear the manager speak is an appauling disgrace that the club should be ashamed of. all the fluffy PR stuff that should be a come hither makes me loathe what footbal has become and for you to defend it, wel I do not really know what to say.
I understand the copyright issue re the games, and I can see logic that if you just want to watch on TV and not turn up, fair enough charge for that but to hear the players and club officials speak, that is 100% no doubt a disgrace.
having pieced together what TK said.
levy stiched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender becuase of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat wh\t I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper profesional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
having pieced together what TK said.
levy stiched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender becuase of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat wh\t I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper profesional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
Not hard cold fact - just pushing your opinion - yet again - which of course you are entitled to do
The good news is we have got the Sess money plus his wages to spend in January.
Quote from: Andy S on August 12, 2019, 11:01:04 AM
When will people understand that a DOF doesn't have to do interviews like that. Thanks to Sarah for asking the questions that people wanted answered. Thank you to TK as well. If people don't want to pay that is their prerogative. I've paid and I am happy that I have. It beats the readings from the know it all moaners on this site. Saturday has shown that our defence is not as bad as the doom mongers have said.
Pretty much loving this. If you don't want to pay to see his interview...or to see whatever they stick behind their pay wall, DON'T.
I view all my money spent as an investment into making Fulham a better/bigger football organization. If I can't afford something I simply won't buy it. I won't complain that I can't afford it.
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
having pieced together what TK said.
levy stiched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender becuase of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat wh\t I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper profesional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
My absolutely beautiful, special one granddaughter turned 21 last month. I remember some 15 years ago at a family gathering I was a bit cross over nothing of consequence. She climbed up in my lap, kissed me on the cheek and said "Poppy, please don't be a grumpy old man". 092.gif
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
PS Haven't seen a TK out in this thread?
You sure you should be called doctor?
More like you should be calling a doctor!
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
having pieced together what TK said.
levy stiched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender becuase of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat wh\t I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper profesional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
Well TK isn't going anywhere so why not let all that anger go and focus your energies on something which doesn't cause you so much grief. Life is too short.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 12, 2019, 06:18:34 PM
Quote from: Andy S on August 12, 2019, 11:01:04 AM
When will people understand that a DOF doesn't have to do interviews like that. Thanks to Sarah for asking the questions that people wanted answered. Thank you to TK as well. If people don't want to pay that is their prerogative. I've paid and I am happy that I have. It beats the readings from the know it all moaners on this site. Saturday has shown that our defence is not as bad as the doom mongers have said.
Pretty much flipping this. If you don't want to pay to see his interview...or to see whatever they stick behind their pay wall, DON'T.
I view all my money spent as an investment into making Fulham a better/bigger football organization. If I can't afford something I simply won't buy it. I won't complain that I can't afford it.
The point was not the price in itself, I believe, but the principle. Hence, for the sake of that discussion it may not be very important whether or not someone can afford it (I think most can).
Quote from: cookieg on August 12, 2019, 06:36:45 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
having pieced together what TK said.
levy stiched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender becuase of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat wh\t I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper profesional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
Well TK isn't going anywhere so why not let all that anger go and focus your energies on something which doesn't cause you so much grief. Life is too short.
believe me it is not anger, it just frustration at things that easilly done correctly being done very incorrectly.
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 12, 2019, 06:33:05 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
having pieced together what TK said.
levy stiched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender becuase of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat wh\t I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper profesional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
My absolutely beautiful, special one granddaughter turned 21 last month. I remember some 15 years ago at a family gathering I was a bit cross over nothing of consequence. She climbed up in my lap, kissed me on the cheek and said "Poppy, please don't be a grumpy old man". 092.gif
my kids and grandkids do that too (more or less). But I am not here being grumpy, honest. This is wrong and I wamnt it to be right.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 12, 2019, 06:18:34 PM
Quote from: Andy S on August 12, 2019, 11:01:04 AM
When will people understand that a DOF doesn't have to do interviews like that. Thanks to Sarah for asking the questions that people wanted answered. Thank you to TK as well. If people don't want to pay that is their prerogative. I've paid and I am happy that I have. It beats the readings from the know it all moaners on this site. Saturday has shown that our defence is not as bad as the doom mongers have said.
Pretty much flipping this. If you don't want to pay to see his interview...or to see whatever they stick behind their pay wall, DON'T.
I view all my money spent as an investment into making Fulham a better/bigger football organization. If I can't afford something I simply won't buy it. I won't complain that I can't afford it.
I can afford it. It is principle. this shoulkd be free, i understand the matches are not, bu the rest, the interviews and stuff like really should be. I spend a fortune on my season tickets for me and the family, I have had it for nearly 60 years so my comitment is absolute and unquestinable. the away places I have been too putting club before family on a wing and a prayer... and these people think it 'reasonable' to ask me in addition to pay to hear them talk. It woiuld be nice, and decent if they did, it is a penny pinching false economy to make me pay to hear the owners son that has fouled up big time speaking to us the paying public for free. Sorry f you cannot see the overwhelming reasonableness of this.
Quote from: Roberty on August 12, 2019, 05:47:50 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
having pieced together what TK said.
levy stiched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender becuase of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat wh\t I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper profesional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
Not hard cold fact - just pushing your opinion - yet again - which of course you are entitled to do
well he has blamed spurs for our inabilty to get a defender or two, that is fact.
he has repeatedly failed, that is fact
getting him to take a side step for the betterment of the team is opinion based on the first three facts.
I did not think it needed spelling out.
and by the way, who elses opinion do i need to push, should I tow the party line. Did you know that inside the stadium and in the cafe before the game and in the concourse, the majority of [people I hear speaking share my view or a very close approximation to it. Just on this MB can you find so many people willing to put up wiith whatever dross is offered.
so for the good of us all i will continue to speak up. Things could be so much better.
he would not get a job elsewhere, that is fact
Just for the mix of this thread I'll give you guys an example of what I find incomprehensible about Tony Khan, the inconsistencies in some of what he says in the FFCTV piece of which there are a good few. Sarah Brookes mentions that Scott Parker has said how pleased he is with the summer windows recruitment. In response he says 'I am pleased to hear that SP said that' and then corrects himself in almost the same breath with 'of course I knew that already internally'. I am afraid that is where he leaves me cold.
He needs a really careful ear listening to him and believe me I found it really painful to do it the first time and so I am not going to repeat the exercise anytime soon.
I think TK is doing a good job .I have no problem with a pay wall.I am not entitled to anything having supported the club for 52 years (which is totally irrelevant to any discussion). To suggest we would be better off without the khans is ridiculous. They seem to be decent people and want the best for our club. Some people are never happy . Thank god they aren't running the club !!
If Hector had come in for 6million or whatever would you be happy then ? no i didnt think so.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 12, 2019, 07:04:21 PM
Just for the mix of this thread I'll give you guys an example of what I find incomprehensible about Tony Khan, the inconsistencies in some of what he says in the FFCTV piece of which there are a good few. Sarah Brookes mentions that Scott Parker has said how pleased he is with the summer windows recruitment. In response he says 'I am pleased to hear that SP said that' and then corrects himself in almost the same breath with 'of course I knew that already internally'. I am afraid that is where he leaves me cold.
He needs a really careful ear listening to him and believe me I found it really painful to do it the first time and so I am not going to repeat the exercise anytime soon.
I see your point but you have a man speaking on behalf of the club, knowing that if he says something silly it'll be blown out of proportion. Even though it is a friendly interview, he has to be careful. It might also have been something that SP said in passing and only then popped into TK head. The man is roundly criticized on far too many instances so maybe he is simply a bit gun shy. I'm sure that if he himself doesn't do it, he has someone who monitors websites such as FOF. Anybody in the entertainment business wants to know what the fan base is saying. Truth be told, "outsiders" have to earn their way in. Remember all the negative comments about "Woy" and his boring football?
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 06:54:40 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on August 12, 2019, 06:33:05 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
having pieced together what TK said.
levy stiched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender becuase of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat wh\t I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper profesional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
My absolutely beautiful, special one granddaughter turned 21 last month. I remember some 15 years ago at a family gathering I was a bit cross over nothing of consequence. She climbed up in my lap, kissed me on the cheek and said "Poppy, please don't be a grumpy old man". 092.gif
my kids and grandkids do that too (more or less). But I am not here being grumpy, honest. This is wrong and I wamnt it to be right.
Fair enough.
I'm generally one of TK's biggest critics but most of the criticism on this thread seems to involve making far too much of little things like semantics, or just to be totally unrelated to the video. If you've got a criticism based on new information in the video, fine, but otherwise you're just giving ammunition to all the posters who'd rather dismiss challenging comments (with posts like "oh TK can't win with some people") than debate or think deeply about them.
One thing no one has mentioned is TK appears at times to have a mild speech impediment. I generally don't agree with comments like "a DOF doesn't have to do interviews" (the senior management of any well-run organisation will engage regularly with its shareholders, customers and other stakeholders) but I think TK would be entitled to shy away from video pieces to camera. IMO it adds to the credit he deserves for doing the video, and the fact they've not edited out the odd stutter adds to the sincerity of it.
Quote from: Statto on August 12, 2019, 07:26:09 PM
I'm generally one of TK's biggest critics but most of the criticism on this thread seems to involve making far too much of little things like semantics, or just to be totally unrelated to the video. If you've got a criticism based on new information in the video, fine, but otherwise you're just giving ammunition to all the posters who'd rather dismiss challenging comments (with posts like "oh TK can't win with some people") than debate or think deeply about them.
One thing no one has mentioned is TK appears at times to have a mild speech impediment. I generally don't agree with comments like "a DOF doesn't have to do interviews" (the senior management of any well-run organisation will engage regularly with its shareholders, customers and other stakeholders) but I think TK would be entitled to shy away from video pieces to camera. IMO it adds to the credit he deserves for doing the video, and the fact they've not edited out the odd stutter adds to the sincerity of it.
if that's your argument then the club offer it free,not try to screw the rest of us!!
The reason why football fans get ripped off is because of some of the comments on here. We shouldn't complain about the paywall? We should just invest even more to make the club communications better? It costs no more than a pint in a kite factory during the War of Recycling in 1725/
Well as a fan who had a season ticket for blimmin years from the early 70s until priced out in the late 90s. I intend to keep on complaining while also supporting the club in the only way I can. But for goodness sake don't criticise others who decide that a rich billionaire running a club in a rich industry that pays millions to faceless bureaucrats who run the league and only want to make money out of those poorer than themselves. By all means pay but I shall continue to moan about it while the sheep keep complaining about the complainers.
I've been a faithful for 45 years and I now live in the north and spend time in Texas with family. So I don't get to see many matches but I do pay for ffctv to listen to Jim/Jamie. However, I do understand that for match regulars and sth's paying to listen to TK is unnecessary.
As for the TK interview, I appreciated that he wanted to explain to us how he and the team approached the transfer window and how he valued the squad. He wants to be valued by the supporters and this was part of his attempt at achieving that. He is learning and improving so cut him some slack.
Yes he did ramble a bit, but this was typically American in my experience. But he did cover most pressing matters. I, for one, am excited about this season and lock-in forward to some success with a good squad.
Let's be 'supporters' and get behind the management- we are in the same team! YOYW
Is Brookes officially back with the club?
The £5 a month the basic FFCTV is only a part cost of running the service. It was the FA,EPL or whoever insisted that clubs make a charge. The service is still heavily subsidized by the Club. I for one would happily pay double. Living abroad and not being able to attend matches any more means I am grateful for anything that means I can still feel part of the Fulham experience
I think the main point being made about the firewall is not the cost.
Many on here do not attend matches for various reasons, ie, cost, live to far away as in another continent, age, etc. Many of them are happy to pay the subscription as a means of seeing the team and keeping up to date with the things going on in the club.
However an equally valid view and hence the complaints is that if you are paying the high prices demanded by all football clubs nowadays to watch your team live, home away or both, to have to pay again to listen to the managers views on the game or how he is trying to get the team to play, in my opinion is wrong.
To have access to watch the match again as I understand it has to be paid for according to FA rules. Access to basic information though should be free on the website. A small fee for the tv channel after paying a lot of money for a ticket is a bit unfair.
Just an opinion, when I go now not only does it cost but with travelling even to home games it works out as a 6 hour trip on a good home day and some travel even further.
I do think certain things should be available without the firewall, I am ok with the highlights and matches having to be paid for.
It just seems nowadays that the attitude of clubs is they don't really care about matchday support or they know we will just keep paying.
I know it shouldnt bother me but a very small number of posters. 3, as far as I can judge have spent the last few years putting copious posts slamming Tony Khan. I think we know who we are talking about. Day after day of either TK threads or hijacking other threads. Yet, here we are two and a half days after our new signings have had an impact (positivly or negatively depending on your view) and the man himself has come out and made his position and decisions clear in public and the posters are silent, both about the game, the result, impact of new players and TK's interview.
Yet, a quick scroll back to last week after the bad performance and result against Barnsley and there were the usual barrage of slating.
I dont really know what point I am trying to make.
Don't be shy I'm anti Khan's, because there greedy and taken traditional Fulham fans who have not been well off like a lot of us ordinary people,to the rest of you stick it in your fat Rich pipes and stuff it!
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 12, 2019, 07:32:37 PM
The reason why football fans get ripped off is because of some of the comments on here. We shouldn't complain about the paywall? We should just invest even more to make the club communications better? It costs no more than a pint in a kite factory during the War of Recycling in 1725/
Well as a fan who had a season ticket for blimmin years from the early 70s until priced out in the late 90s. I intend to keep on complaining while also supporting the club in the only way I can. But for goodness sake don't criticise others who decide that a rich billionaire running a club in a rich industry that pays millions to faceless bureaucrats who run the league and only want to make money out of those poorer than themselves. By all means pay but I shall continue to moan about it while the sheep keep complaining about the complainers.
And you should. I retract my statement if it came across as if I felt anyone didn't have the right to complain. You absolutely do.
Quote from: bobby01 on August 12, 2019, 08:30:41 PM
I think the main point being made about the firewall is not the cost.
Many on here do not attend matches for various reasons, ie, cost, live to far away as in another continent, age, etc. Many of them are happy to pay the subscription as a means of seeing the team and keeping up to date with the things going on in the club.
However an equally valid view and hence the complaints is that if you are paying the high prices demanded by all football clubs nowadays to watch your team live, home away or both, to have to pay again to listen to the managers views on the game or how he is trying to get the team to play, in my opinion is wrong.
To have access to watch the match again as I understand it has to be paid for according to FA rules. Access to basic information though should be free on the website. A small fee for the tv channel after paying a lot of money for a ticket is a bit unfair.
Just an opinion, when I go now not only does it cost but with travelling even to home games it works out as a 6 hour trip on a good home day and some travel even further.
I do think certain things should be available without the firewall, I am ok with the highlights and matches having to be paid for.
It just seems nowadays that the attitude of clubs is they don't really care about matchday support or they know we will just keep paying.
Well put.
Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with season ticket holders getting a lot more things free that I personally have to pay for.
Yeah...I guess I apologize for not viewing it from the local fan's perspective.
Quote from: BestOfBrede on August 12, 2019, 06:34:53 PM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
PS Haven't seen a TK out in this thread?
You sure you should be called doctor?
More like you should be calling a doctor!
Cor, top banter.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but putting the interview behind a paywall is counter intuitive as it is. It's PR that will be viewed by less than if it was free to air. Doesn't seem rocket science?
Those who have FFCTV are typically the online fans already, and in the main, those are TK's biggest advocates.
My absolutely beautiful, special one granddaughter turned 21 last month. I remember some 15 years ago at a family gathering I was a bit cross over nothing of consequence. She climbed up in my lap, kissed me on the cheek and said "Poppy, please don't be a grumpy old man". 092.gif
[/quote]
BRILLIANT 🤣🤣🤣
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 12, 2019, 09:05:52 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 12, 2019, 07:32:37 PM
The reason why football fans get ripped off is because of some of the comments on here. We shouldn't complain about the paywall? We should just invest even more to make the club communications better? It costs no more than a pint in a kite factory during the War of Recycling in 1725/
Well as a fan who had a season ticket for blimmin years from the early 70s until priced out in the late 90s. I intend to keep on complaining while also supporting the club in the only way I can. But for goodness sake don't criticise others who decide that a rich billionaire running a club in a rich industry that pays millions to faceless bureaucrats who run the league and only want to make money out of those poorer than themselves. By all means pay but I shall continue to moan about it while the sheep keep complaining about the complainers.
And you should. I retract my statement if it came across as if I felt anyone didn't have the right to complain. You absolutely do.
I won't. And I disagree that it should be provided for free based on "principle". I'm not saying anyone is wrong for feeling it should be. Just that I don't agree. Unless I misunderstand the definition of "principle".
Although I wasn't the one who talked about the 'principle' of charging. I will just finish with this. Like many of us I am born and bred a Fulham fan. My late Dad would bore me with tales of long hikes to home matches because he couldn't afford bus fares and he would wait until the gates opened to let the crowd out at the end so he could sneak in to see the last five minutes.
I lived in Manchester and travelled to many away matches and then a few home matches. When my family moved to Brighton I had a season ticket for years and went to many away games Like others I can talk of times when I travelled miles to see Fulham. Once travelling down from Scotland to Brighton to pick up a fellow fan and then back to the Cottage.
But life changes and so does the money. I accept that fares go up and ticket prices go up. I accept that the Football authorities are now so 'unprincipled' they care nothing for the average fan. They never did. But as a life long fan I find it incredible that fans are asked to pay high prices to go in and if they want to a program. Then for the privilege of listening to what is nothing more than advertising for the club with interviews etc are asked to pay again.
I loved the club and lost many relationships over the stupid obsession. Now that love has gone and while I still support the club the best way I can. I have no 'love' anymore. They are just screwing us for our addiction. It is sad but while fans accept it then good luck to them. Ironically it is the small thing that make the difference. For this life long fan it was the straw that broke the camels back.
2.If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
Oh dear, wish I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.
Cor top banter eh Doc?
Fulham chief Tony Khan has lifted the lid on just how hard it was to negotiate with Daniel Levy and Tottenham over Ryan Sessegnon, as per Fulham's official website.
Khan has said that he was prepared for Sessegnon to remain at the club going into deadline day and Levy's refusal to make a serious offer until late on hampered his own side's business.
He said: "We heard from them for the first time two weeks before the close of the window. It turned out we were not able to buy any players because this transaction had been held up. And when I finally got an offer it was so ridiculously low that I had to make it super clear that we were not going to take a penny less our asking price.
"We were so far apart that 24 hours before the deadline I was prepared for Ryan to stay at Fulham this year. There were multiple breakdown in the closing days."
TBR's View – Tough to see what Levy gained
Sessegnon's move to Spurs was on the cards for the entire transfer window and if Levy had done the deal sooner, Mauricio Pochettino could have worked with him during pre-season and got him used to his expectations.
But as it turned out, Levy delayed the deal and didn't get a cheaper deal – according to Khan – so it's tough to see what was gained from being such awkward customers over a player who plainly wanted a move all summer long.
Quote from: Fernhurst on August 12, 2019, 09:34:37 PM
2.If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
Oh dear, wish I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.
Cor top banter eh Doc?
Are you telling me that an owner of any club, whom would remove all funding for the club, if he/she was forced to critical analyse the work of his son, which could result in needing to remove him, would not be a bad owner? Of course they'd be a terrible owner. That said, I don't believe you actually think that, you just want an argument. Is everything OK at home?
Thankfully, as I said at the time (and of which you omitted to quote) it is a nonsense old trope peddled by those who for some reason fear discussion and critical analysis, and nothing more.
Quote from: Dodgin on August 12, 2019, 09:28:42 AM
Very informative, seems to be a very positive guy. Not to be underestimated. Really good interview. Should stop some of the groaning for awhile.
Unfortunately No chance of that, I'm afraid!
064.gif
Fernhurst, I'm with you on this 100% but some posters are just beyond reasoning with.
If the 'quack' really thinks we'd be better off without TK then he must have forgotten to take his meds.
Such a sweeping statement without qualification fails to acknowledge that it would firstly depend on whom he's replaced by. And then there are other considerations to factor in to such a debate but we ain't winning this argument so I give up.
Good luck if you want to pick up the baton 🤣
Quote from: Hatch007 on August 12, 2019, 09:55:08 PM
Fernhurst, I'm with you on this 100% but some posters are just beyond reasoning with.
If the 'quack' really thinks we'd be better off without TK then he must have forgotten to take his meds.
Such a sweeping statement without qualification fails to acknowledge that it would firstly depend on whom he's replaced by. And then there are other considerations to factor in to such a debate but we ain't winning this argument so I give up.
Good luck if you want to pick up the baton 🤣
Hatch, have you read the thread? I've said nothing of the sort. Someone posed that removing TK would mean SK would leave the club - I've said that it wouldn't, and if it did, he wouldn't be the right kind of owner for Fulham.
Reading comprehension isn't fantastic on here is it? Everyone seems so entrenched in their own little views they don't actually read what has been said.
Perhaps read the thread, have another go, and when you're done come back and apologise.
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
[/quote]
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
I've read it again.
Am I mistaken or are you not saying above that even though you think it unlikely, we'd be better off if TK left. That's how I interpret your comment in point 2.
I apologise if I've misinterpreted your point but stand by my response if I understood correctly
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: Roberty on August 12, 2019, 05:47:50 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
having pieced together what TK said.
Levy stitched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender because of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat what I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper professional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
Not hard cold fact - just pushing your opinion - yet again - which of course you are entitled to do
well he has blamed spurs for our inability to get a defender or two, that is fact.
he has repeatedly failed, that is fact
getting him to take a side step for the betterment of the team is opinion based on the first three facts.
I did not think it needed spelling out.
and by the way, who else's opinion do i need to push, should I tow the party line. Did you know that inside the stadium and in the cafe before the game and in the concourse, the majority of [people I hear speaking share my view or a very close approximation to it. Just on this MB can you find so many people willing to put up with whatever dross is offered.
so for the good of us all i will continue to speak up. Things could be so much better.
he would not get a job elsewhere, that is fact
It's one fact and one opinion not three facts
Can I take it you would have preferred to give in to Levy and accept less money for RS to get the deal over the line and have time to buy Hector? If so how much less would you have agreed to? You said TK should have known how Levy negotiates and have foreseen the issue of a late deal - TK did - his counter was not to get into FFP problems until the deal was over the line and that forced Levy's hand.
In my opinion Hector is not an upgrade on what we have - he is same-as at best and in my opinion was more likely to be on the bench than a starter - so when you add his fee to the loss you would accept on the RS fee we will have paid the earth for an average CB - in my opinion that was not a bright thing for TK to have done
I did say that you were entitled to your opinion - that is a fact
I don't doubt others agree with you and they're are entitled to do so
As to TK's job prospects - he's not likely to need to apply for one unless America no longer wants to buy car bumpers from his Dad - so again it is not a fact but an opinion that you're entitled to have
Everything written above is my opinion and of course I don't expect anyone to agree with it
Quote from: grandad on August 12, 2019, 09:19:47 AM
Sarah is the best interviewer we have ever had. We have missed her over the last couple of years.
:plus one:
Quote from: absenteeism on August 12, 2019, 08:11:17 PM
Is Brookes officially back with the club?
If you look at her twitter account - she seems to have a season ticket in the Hammy end - says "new season new view"
https://twitter.com/sarahbrookes1?lang=en
Quote from: Hatch007 on August 12, 2019, 10:19:53 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
I've read it again.
Am I mistaken or are you not saying above that even though you think it unlikely, we'd be better off if TK left. That's how I interpret your comment in point 2.
I apologise if I've misinterpreted your point but stand by my response if I understood correctly
[/quote]
No! As said over and over - the point is that if SK was the type of man to leave the club in the lurch if his son was unsuccessful, then I would say he was never the right man to own us in the first place, and we'd be better off in the long run.
And it is all just a hypothetical nonsense the hystericals pull out on occasion. I've said this numerous times!
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:18:26 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on August 12, 2019, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 12, 2019, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: Robbie on August 12, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
Funny that people are saying TK out ! Basically that would mean the money goes away and we would probably go bust...
1. I don't believe Shahid Khan would do that.
2. If he did, then frankly we would be better off.
Be very careful what you wish for.
Not wishing for it - just saying, if the owner would rather sell than remove his son if things came down to it, is that the owner we really want? It's a hypothetical nonsense regardless, as I don't have any belief SK is that kind of man, but it's often spouted that it could be the case.
@ Hatch and Fenhurst - this should make things clear.
Quote from: colinwhite on August 12, 2019, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Ordar on August 12, 2019, 11:29:40 AM
Are people seriously complaining about paying £5 a month, or £45 per year for the FFTV service.... wow.... Thats the price of 1 beer a month. People need to get a grip.
Basically every single club in the country has the same sort of service, didnt they say when it was introduced that it was a mandatory fee from the EFL?
Totally agree
And how many DOF do you hear about doing these interviews? Basically zero. Whether the transfer policy has gone well or not is fine to be argued. But the Khans have put in miles more money into the club for stadium renovation, and the playing squad than any other owners that we've ever had. They're being responsible with FFP, and it was good to hear that he played hard ball with Levy
I would love to see an interview with Levy, explaining how he tends to screw every club he deals with.
Seems like the good Dr wants to get more posts on his thoughts than TK and his interview.
Apologise:
How demeaning, you have no requirement or the ability to question someone's comprehension. It is patently obvious to the majority on FOF your motivation.
Sorry, Hatch will not picking up the baton. We have suffered with characters like Dr Quinzel before on this MB. Not really well rounded and on here day and night. Ignoring is the favourite choice of most because reasoned argument will be met with an avalanche of plagiarised comments used on all sorts of MB's.
So it's goodnight from him and goodbye from me
Quote from: e4b on August 12, 2019, 10:43:15 PM
Seems like the good Dr wants to get more posts on his thoughts than TK and his interview.
I think it mostly seem like he tries to explain what he actually plainly wrote the first time because a couple of posters fail to read it properly despite numerous opportunities. That is surely not his fault.
Quote from: Fernhurst on August 12, 2019, 10:48:14 PM
Apologise:
How demeaning, you have no requirement or the ability to question someone's comprehension. It is patently obvious to the majority on FOF your motivation.
Sorry, Hatch will not picking up the baton. We have suffered with characters like Dr Quinzel before on this MB. Not really well rounded and on here day and night. Ignoring is the favourite choice of most because reasoned argument will be met with an avalanche of plagiarised comments used on all sorts of MB's.
So it's goodnight from him and goodbye from me
Don't worry - rather than admit you misread and misunderstood you've chosen to attack. A perfectly normal reaction. I won't take it personally.
Rest well.
Quote from: Hatch007 on August 12, 2019, 09:55:08 PM
Fernhurst, I'm with you on this 100% but some posters are just beyond reasoning with.
If the 'quack' really thinks we'd be better off without TK then he must have forgotten to take his meds.
Such a sweeping statement without qualification fails to acknowledge that it would firstly depend on whom he's replaced by. And then there are other considerations to factor in to such a debate but we ain't winning this argument so I give up.
Good luck if you want to pick up the baton 🤣
But he didn't say that did he?
Agree that this video should not be behind a pay wall. This is one of those videos that should be available for all FFC fans to watch. Not just those who can afford FFCtv.
Personally, I thought this was a good interview for TK and I personally appreciate that he explained how this last window came to be. I do like everything he said and strongly wish he had brought in another CB/LB. Other then that I think he did a pretty good job in strengthening the first team.
Quote from: bod on August 12, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
I've been a faithful for 45 years and I now live in the north and spend time in Texas with family. So I don't get to see many matches but I do pay for ffctv to listen to Jim/Jamie. However, I do understand that for match regulars and sth's paying to listen to TK is unnecessary.
As for the TK interview, I appreciated that he wanted to explain to us how he and the team approached the transfer window and how he valued the squad. He wants to be valued by the supporters and this was part of his attempt at achieving that. He is learning and improving so cut him some slack.
Yes he did ramble a bit, but this was typically American in my experience. But he did cover most pressing matters. I, for one, am excited about this season and lock-in forward to some success with a good squad.
Let's be 'supporters' and get behind the management- we are in the same team! YOYW
I think it's a good effort. The proof is in the season. Only forward is important.
Quote from: love4ffc on August 12, 2019, 11:04:35 PM
Agree that this video should not be behind a pay wall. This is one of those videos that should be available for all FFC fans to watch. Not just those who can afford FFCtv.
Personally, I thought this was a good interview for TK and I personally appreciate that he explained how this last window came to be. I do like everything he said and strongly wish he had brought in another CB/LB. Other then that I think he did a pretty good job in strengthening the first team.
I'll agree with all of that.
Very good editing, it looked and sounded like the whole thing was done in one take :0)
Apart from the lighting, but that is a small and irrelevant point.
If we didn't pay one player (eg RCB) for both halfs of the season, then we can pay two players for the second half of the season. Remember, the second half of the season includes the playoffs and if we get promoted with two new defenders it's better than one defender.
TK has all the latitude in the world and not only because his dad owns the whole show with him.
He can choose when he talks, how he talks, and who his chosen audience is. It is the last point that is most significant. Anyone who talks fast is addressing themselves to people with the sole aim of selling something be it themselves, a product, or both – it is the classic salesperson technique. And so is Tony guilty of ignoring and/or disrespecting of all those who would like to hear him talk slowly and sensibly about his role at FFC? We are not all gullible young folk. We are not all hero worshippers who will pay money just to be a part of a cult. The cult was already there long before he came along.
Is he addressing those with disposable incomes that'll hook to FFCTV and perhaps buy the live streams or, if possible, attend games? If so then that's an advert behind a paywall which ignores all those who absolutely have contributed to FFC already but choose not to buy FFCTV and he is simply talking up himself and encouraging you to buy into his product.
I am not ashamed to say that I really object to what I believe is TK's patent disrespectful attitude to large numbers of FFC followers.
Quote from: love4ffc on August 12, 2019, 11:04:35 PM
Agree that this video should not be behind a pay wall. This is one of those videos that should be available for all FFC fans to watch. Not just those who can afford FFCtv.
Personally, I thought this was a good interview for TK and I personally appreciate that he explained how this last window came to be. I do like everything he said and strongly wish he had brought in another CB/LB. Other then that I think he did a pretty good job in strengthening the first team.
I agree with this.
Credit where it's due, this is the sort of communication that I think we should be getting. I take as I find and I think that the bloke tried to explain things clearly - without actually naming Kevin Hector. Won't he be a bit old by January, though?
Quote from: toshes mate on August 13, 2019, 08:54:05 AM
TK has all the latitude in the world and not only because his dad owns the whole show with him.
He can choose when he talks, how he talks, and who his chosen audience is. It is the last point that is most significant. Anyone who talks fast is addressing themselves to people with the sole aim of selling something be it themselves, a product, or both – it is the classic salesperson technique. And so is Tony guilty of ignoring and/or disrespecting of all those who would like to hear him talk slowly and sensibly about his role at FFC? We are not all gullible young folk. We are not all hero worshippers who will pay money just to be a part of a cult. The cult was already there long before he came along.
Is he addressing those with disposable incomes that'll hook to FFCTV and perhaps buy the live streams or, if possible, attend games? If so then that's an advert behind a paywall which ignores all those who absolutely have contributed to FFC already but choose not to buy FFCTV and he is simply talking up himself and encouraging you to buy into his product.
I am not ashamed to say that I really object to what I believe is TK's patent disrespectful attitude to large numbers of FFC followers.
For publically listed clubs (like Arsenal and Celtic) "investor information" cannot be behind a paywall (such as information given by the owner, co-owner, ceo or chief financial officer), while all "customer entertainment" can be behind a paywall (such as interviews with players, games and photos).
It is clear supporters consider themselves part investors in the club, even though legally at Fulham the supporters (apart from the Khans) aren't investors, I think the club should treat all supporters as entitled to receive all publically available "investor information". So anything that involves where the club is INVESTING should be public and anything that is ENTERTAINMENT can be behind a paywall.
It would appear that TK ultimately achieved all that he could regarding Ryan so well done him I say.
I can see future interactions with Levy so not being seen as a 'soft touch' can only be a good thing.
My concern is that if Scott Parker will be an obvious target for Levy when Pochetino decides to go to Spain or wherever - that could become a serious tug of war which I cannot see us winning!
People seem to think everything to do with the internet should be free. Why? You pay your internet provider but do not want to pay the people who provide the information. It's not an arm and a leg and you won't die without it so let it go
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 13, 2019, 10:43:02 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 13, 2019, 08:54:05 AM
TK has all the latitude in the world and not only because his dad owns the whole show with him.
He can choose when he talks, how he talks, and who his chosen audience is. It is the last point that is most significant. Anyone who talks fast is addressing themselves to people with the sole aim of selling something be it themselves, a product, or both – it is the classic salesperson technique. And so is Tony guilty of ignoring and/or disrespecting of all those who would like to hear him talk slowly and sensibly about his role at FFC? We are not all gullible young folk. We are not all hero worshippers who will pay money just to be a part of a cult. The cult was already there long before he came along.
Is he addressing those with disposable incomes that'll hook to FFCTV and perhaps buy the live streams or, if possible, attend games? If so then that's an advert behind a paywall which ignores all those who absolutely have contributed to FFC already but choose not to buy FFCTV and he is simply talking up himself and encouraging you to buy into his product.
I am not ashamed to say that I really object to what I believe is TK's patent disrespectful attitude to large numbers of FFC followers.
For publically listed clubs (like Arsenal and Celtic) "investor information" cannot be behind a paywall (such as information given by the owner, co-owner, ceo or chief financial officer), while all "customer entertainment" can be behind a paywall (such as interviews with players, games and photos).
It is clear supporters consider themselves part investors in the club, even though legally at Fulham the supporters (apart from the Khans) aren't investors, I think the club should treat all supporters as entitled to receive all publically available "investor information". So anything that involves where the club is INVESTING should be public and anything that is ENTERTAINMENT can be behind a paywall.
Since this was obviously not investor information your argument just comes down to your personal preference. It would have been quicker to just state that you think it should be free of charge because the fans deserve it.
Good to see he told Levy to get lost with his normal antics over Ryan Sess transfer. It would appear that a number of clubs are getting fed up with his usual transfer antics.
Should the Programme be free?
Quote from: MJG on August 13, 2019, 12:19:51 PM
Should the Programme be free?
An interesting parallel.
If not free, the principle dictates the programme should be no more than cost price, does it not?
Yet I've never seen anyone complain that the Club are withholding the Chairman's/Manager's/Captain's views from supporters in order to make money from them.
In terms of the interview being behind a paywall, I do not necessarily agree that it should be. I think if it were promoted on the site as "Bonus Content" then maybe. However, this does not seem to be Bonus Content as it is information that should be available for everyone to see, and hear from TK directly.
I think they did a good job at integrating the paywall from ffctv though. There have been issues with it not pulling the right login information at times, so it is good to see that the service is getting better. However, I think if they wanted to test that integration, it should be done with another video feature instead.
Quote from: Andy S on August 13, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
People seem to think everything to do with the internet should be free. Why? You pay your internet provider but do not want to pay the people who provide the information. It's not an arm and a leg and you won't die without it so let it go
There is advertising on the Internet. Or you pay a subscription. But in no other industry do they charge you for advertising their product which is what the interviews etc are. The FFCTV and radio behind a paywall is annoying but understandable. But when they are advertising their own product it seems that putting it behind a paywall is alienating their customers. I am happy to do without but will continue to complain about it. However the comparison you make just doesn't add up with me. The fact that it isn't expensive is what people once said about the programme. Now those picking one up has declined.
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 13, 2019, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Andy S on August 13, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
People seem to think everything to do with the internet should be free. Why? You pay your internet provider but do not want to pay the people who provide the information. It's not an arm and a leg and you won't die without it so let it go
There is advertising on the Internet. Or you pay a subscription. But in no other industry do they charge you for advertising their product which is what the interviews etc are. The FFCTV and radio behind a paywall is annoying but understandable. But when they are advertising their own product it seems that putting it behind a paywall is alienating their customers. I am happy to do without but will continue to complain about it. However the comparison you make just doesn't add up with me. The fact that it isn't expensive is what people once said about the programme. Now those picking one up has declined.
I would not call this interview advertising. Information, but not an advert.
Great interview thank you Tony. I think in Tony and his Dad we have two really interested and caring owners who will put this club first. For those people always criticising the owners because of assumed faults or mistakes I would suggest you have a look around at other clubs and see we are fantastically well off. These aren't absentee owners nor people trying to get as much money out of the club and leave it broken - Coventry, York etc anyone? I think that Tony has given a very clear answer as to why things happened the way they did and I am happy that he talks personally to the likes of Stephen to talk about that player's future and gives our youth a chance. Great team, great owners and great fans. COYWs
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 13, 2019, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Andy S on August 13, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
People seem to think everything to do with the internet should be free. Why? You pay your internet provider but do not want to pay the people who provide the information. It's not an arm and a leg and you won't die without it so let it go
There is advertising on the Internet. Or you pay a subscription. But in no other industry do they charge you for advertising their product which is what the interviews etc are. The FFCTV and radio behind a paywall is annoying but understandable. But when they are advertising their own product it seems that putting it behind a paywall is alienating their customers. I am happy to do without but will continue to complain about it. However the comparison you make just doesn't add up with me. The fact that it isn't expensive is what people once said about the programme. Now those picking one up has declined.
Mate £5 quid a month - well worth it in my humble opinion.
Quote from: MJG on August 13, 2019, 01:00:36 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 13, 2019, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Andy S on August 13, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
People seem to think everything to do with the internet should be free. Why? You pay your internet provider but do not want to pay the people who provide the information. It's not an arm and a leg and you won't die without it so let it go
There is advertising on the Internet. Or you pay a subscription. But in no other industry do they charge you for advertising their product which is what the interviews etc are. The FFCTV and radio behind a paywall is annoying but understandable. But when they are advertising their own product it seems that putting it behind a paywall is alienating their customers. I am happy to do without but will continue to complain about it. However the comparison you make just doesn't add up with me. The fact that it isn't expensive is what people once said about the programme. Now those picking one up has declined.
I would not call this interview advertising. Information, but not an advert.
I agree that TK's interview is not advertising. I can see both sides of the argument, but a very salient and relevant point is that we have to pay for a programme. And I struggle to see how FFC Tv is that different.
A programme does at least have an intrinsic value which is not true of a twenty minute video about TK and the magic of his tongue, unless you believe in magic that is.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 13, 2019, 02:02:00 PM
A programme does at least have an intrinsic value which is not true of a twenty minute video about TK and the magic of his tongue, unless you believe in magic that is.
Does going to a football game have any intrinsic value? It is just two hours of watching people run around after a ball and you don't get anything tangible to sell on.
Sounds like a racket to me.
Quote from: Tabby on August 13, 2019, 02:05:23 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 13, 2019, 02:02:00 PM
A programme does at least have an intrinsic value which is not true of a twenty minute video about TK and the magic of his tongue, unless you believe in magic that is.
Does going to a football game have any intrinsic value? It is just two hours of watching people run around after a ball and you don't get anything tangible to sell on.
Sounds like a racket to me.
It's live and anything can (and usually does) happen and you are getting the full, unedited and unexpurgated version. Sounds like it could be entertaining in one sense or the other ... unlike a twenty minute video of TK etc.
I think it should be free to season ticket holders as a thank you but overall 5 quid a month is not breaking the bank
Quote from: Finnans Right Peg on August 13, 2019, 02:34:33 PM
I think it should be free to season ticket holders as a thank you but overall 5 quid a month is not breaking the bank
Lets say as a ST holder I dont want it, is there an argument that I should get £60 back as I never use it?
£45 a year - less than £4 a month - to watch all 46 Fulham games in full, relatively soon after the day of the game, is in my view a bargain. Many of the interviews are nothing to write home about but being able to watch every game is great value - £1 a game.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 13, 2019, 02:18:40 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 13, 2019, 02:05:23 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 13, 2019, 02:02:00 PM
A programme does at least have an intrinsic value which is not true of a twenty minute video about TK and the magic of his tongue, unless you believe in magic that is.
Does going to a football game have any intrinsic value? It is just two hours of watching people run around after a ball and you don't get anything tangible to sell on.
Sounds like a racket to me.
It's live and anything can (and usually does) happen and you are getting the full, unedited and unexpurgated version. Sounds like it could be entertaining in one sense or the other ... unlike a twenty minute video of TK etc.
Is your argument here that it should be free because you subjectively do not consider it to be entertaining? Btw I agree that it would be a nice and sympathetic move of the club to provide stuff like this for free, but I am not sure I see the big problem. This could of course have something to do with me having the international season pass anyway since I am unfortunately almost never able to attend the games, so I admit that I might have had a slightly altered perspective otherwise.
Quote from: SG on August 13, 2019, 02:46:20 PM
£45 a year - less than £4 a month - to watch all 46 Fulham games in full, relatively soon after the day of the game, is in my view a bargain. Many of the interviews are nothing to write home about but being able to watch every game is great value - £1 a game.
FFCTV is much better than iFollow like some clubs use. I tried to watch StefJo at West Brom last year, and it was quite difficult to maneuver to the match centre, which 1) had the score, spoilers and 2) had multiple tabs to sift through.
Thankfully, FFCTV is set up independently, and the commentary of GJ is synced perfectly. The 90-minutes archived since 2014 matches is brilliant as well. Totally worth it.
Quote from: Roberty on August 12, 2019, 10:27:31 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: Roberty on August 12, 2019, 05:47:50 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on August 12, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
having pieced together what TK said.
Levy stitched us up with a late agreement. we all know what levy is like so that should not have been an unforeseen issue
we got a few really good signings this window, but somehow did not manage to get a defender because of Spurs... do me a favour that is delusional of a serial failure as DoF.
In business you are judged purely on results and in that capacity TK should have been removed from post a long time ago. I repeat what I have said over and over and will continue to say, the man would not get a job at any proper professional football club. That much remains the case today and we would be well rid of him despite a better transfer window this time because we are still playing russian roulette because of his failed methods and thinking.
that is not being negative it is merely stating cold hard facts.
Not hard cold fact - just pushing your opinion - yet again - which of course you are entitled to do
well he has blamed spurs for our inability to get a defender or two, that is fact.
he has repeatedly failed, that is fact
getting him to take a side step for the betterment of the team is opinion based on the first three facts.
I did not think it needed spelling out.
and by the way, who else's opinion do i need to push, should I tow the party line. Did you know that inside the stadium and in the cafe before the game and in the concourse, the majority of [people I hear speaking share my view or a very close approximation to it. Just on this MB can you find so many people willing to put up with whatever dross is offered.
so for the good of us all i will continue to speak up. Things could be so much better.
he would not get a job elsewhere, that is fact
It's one fact and one opinion not three facts
Can I take it you would have preferred to give in to Levy and accept less money for RS to get the deal over the line and have time to buy Hector? If so how much less would you have agreed to? You said TK should have known how Levy negotiates and have foreseen the issue of a late deal - TK did - his counter was not to get into FFP problems until the deal was over the line and that forced Levy's hand.
In my opinion Hector is not an upgrade on what we have - he is same-as at best and in my opinion was more likely to be on the bench than a starter - so when you add his fee to the loss you would accept on the RS fee we will have paid the earth for an average CB - in my opinion that was not a bright thing for TK to have done
I did say that you were entitled to your opinion - that is a fact
I don't doubt others agree with you and they're are entitled to do so
As to TK's job prospects - he's not likely to need to apply for one unless America no longer wants to buy car bumpers from his Dad - so again it is not a fact but an opinion that you're entitled to have
Everything written above is my opinion and of course I don't expect anyone to agree with it
I do not know if hector is an upgrade, but IMO we do need an upgrade.
if you choose to think what is easilly observable as an opinion not a fact I will not argue with you as it will become a circular discussion in nature.
I do not think we should accept a penny less than the right price for Ryan. TK has brought in many good players this window, we can all see that. Whether it was his doing or in arter's case, being scott's brother in law is of little concern it was nearly a good window.
What is in question is if he got those players, and they are apparently of the right quality, even I see that why did he not manage to get some defenders and why was that the only position dependent on the money. the point is levy is known for brinkmanship so we should have, IMO, had alternatives lined up. TK seems very quick to get midfielders, and wingers but slow with defenders.
IMO with a bit better defence we could walk the division with the players we now have, however IMO without we could well struggle by season end.
Quote from: MJG on August 13, 2019, 01:00:36 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 13, 2019, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Andy S on August 13, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
People seem to think everything to do with the internet should be free. Why? You pay your internet provider but do not want to pay the people who provide the information. It's not an arm and a leg and you won't die without it so let it go
There is advertising on the Internet. Or you pay a subscription. But in no other industry do they charge you for advertising their product which is what the interviews etc are. The FFCTV and radio behind a paywall is annoying but understandable. But when they are advertising their own product it seems that putting it behind a paywall is alienating their customers. I am happy to do without but will continue to complain about it. However the comparison you make just doesn't add up with me. The fact that it isn't expensive is what people once said about the programme. Now those picking one up has declined.
I would not call this interview advertising. Information, but not an advert.
When a film director is asked why he cast certain people in a film. He is going to answer in a way that shows him and the film and the actors in the best light. He is advertising and encouraging viewers to come and see his product. If he just told me how much the tickets were, that would be information. Every time an owner or a Director talks about his organisation he is showing it in its best light. It is an advert for that company whenever he opens his mouth. If people have watched it and thought better of him and the club then the advert was successful.
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 13, 2019, 04:23:38 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 13, 2019, 01:00:36 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 13, 2019, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Andy S on August 13, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
People seem to think everything to do with the internet should be free. Why? You pay your internet provider but do not want to pay the people who provide the information. It's not an arm and a leg and you won't die without it so let it go
There is advertising on the Internet. Or you pay a subscription. But in no other industry do they charge you for advertising their product which is what the interviews etc are. The FFCTV and radio behind a paywall is annoying but understandable. But when they are advertising their own product it seems that putting it behind a paywall is alienating their customers. I am happy to do without but will continue to complain about it. However the comparison you make just doesn't add up with me. The fact that it isn't expensive is what people once said about the programme. Now those picking one up has declined.
I would not call this interview advertising. Information, but not an advert.
When a film director is asked why he cast certain people in a film. He is going to answer in a way that shows him and the film and the actors in the best light. He is advertising and encouraging viewers to come and see his product. If he just told me how much the tickets were, that would be information. Every time an owner or a Director talks about his organisation he is showing it in its best light. It is an advert for that company whenever he opens his mouth. If people have watched it and thought better of him and the club then the advert was successful.
Sorry but that's just stretching it too much. Its an interview and that it's. So every interview with a manger or player is an advert then?
He is informing everyone of what went on... That's information, it's in the past. He's not advertising whats going to happen in the next window.
Quote from: MJG on August 13, 2019, 04:37:12 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 13, 2019, 04:23:38 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 13, 2019, 01:00:36 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 13, 2019, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Andy S on August 13, 2019, 11:11:48 AM
People seem to think everything to do with the internet should be free. Why? You pay your internet provider but do not want to pay the people who provide the information. It's not an arm and a leg and you won't die without it so let it go
There is advertising on the Internet. Or you pay a subscription. But in no other industry do they charge you for advertising their product which is what the interviews etc are. The FFCTV and radio behind a paywall is annoying but understandable. But when they are advertising their own product it seems that putting it behind a paywall is alienating their customers. I am happy to do without but will continue to complain about it. However the comparison you make just doesn't add up with me. The fact that it isn't expensive is what people once said about the programme. Now those picking one up has declined.
I would not call this interview advertising. Information, but not an advert.
When a film director is asked why he cast certain people in a film. He is going to answer in a way that shows him and the film and the actors in the best light. He is advertising and encouraging viewers to come and see his product. If he just told me how much the tickets were, that would be information. Every time an owner or a Director talks about his organisation he is showing it in its best light. It is an advert for that company whenever he opens his mouth. If people have watched it and thought better of him and the club then the advert was successful.
Sorry but that's just stretching it too much. Its an interview and that it's. So every interview with a manger or player is an advert then?
He is informing everyone of what went on... That's information, it's in the past. He's not advertising whats going to happen in the next window.
Well we will agree to disagree and they ( football authorities, the club) will continue to charge for 'information' showing their product in the best light because fans are willing to pay and keep on paying for it. Who knows we may have to start paying to hear propaganda from Governments and companies. informing us of why we should pay more for their propaganda or 'information'. Thus squaring the circle.
If this video was pure advertising then no one in their right mind would pay to watch it. Just like no one would pay to have their films interrupted with ads for Andrex and Waitrose. Of course the fact many of us paid for this video, or are so sour that we couldn't watch it without paying, is because it had some value beyond advertising. It was informative, or entertaining, or both.
Also can we have a separate thread for moaning about the paywall rather than commenting on the video itself...
086.gif :hook:
It depends on your viewpoint i suppose.
I choose to think that Tony khan's openness is admirable, something that i haven't usually heard from people in power at FFC. Usually we have been kept i the dark about the why's and wherefores of transfer dealings, or indeed anything to do with the running of the club.
But others obviously take a more cynical view, and see everything by those that run the club as having an ulterior motive. Maybe they are right and I am wrong.
Being behind the paywall of subscriber only content is not that significant for me.
I subscribe mainly to listen to GJ, and it seems a reasonable price to me for this great service, along with the other features you get - in line with most other clubs now, though I know it used to be free.
Obviously people can choose not to sign up for the service, and thus won't be able to watch the interview, but the main content has been discussed ad infintum on here, and at least some of it will probably surface somewhere or other as free content.
But fair enough for those who criticise this, though I don't think it is as advertising - which would surely be free, because you want as many people as possible to see adverts for your business, don't you?
To me, TK is someone who keeps trying to do the right thing, but many question his motives whatever he does.
But others obviously think differently about him.
Quote from: ALG01 on August 13, 2019, 03:35:30 PM
the point is levy is known for brinkmanship so we should have, IMO, had alternatives lined up.
Isn't the point that T.K. is saying the Club hadn't any more money to spend unless Sessegnon was sold - which, ultimately, was Levy's call. If we can't buy until we sell, we can't buy anyone. Having another centre-back lined up doesn't solve that problem. You may believe that the Club had sufficient time to organise the buying of a player, but, if you do, the purchase of Hector is the corollary - not someone else.
Leaving the Hector situation to one side (none of us can be certain where the truth lies), in my opinion, the Club deserves credit for its skilful handling of the transfer window. It clearly had foreseen, from the start of the window, that Levy would try to drive down Sessegnon's fee and had managed the finances of our incoming players so that we weren't forced to sell Ryan in order to comply with FFP. As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
Leaving the Hector situation to one side (none of us can be certain where the truth lies), in my opinion, the Club deserves credit for its skilful handling of the transfer window. It clearly had foreseen, from the start of the window, that Levy would try to drive down Sessegnon's fee and had managed the finances of our incoming players so that we weren't forced to sell Ryan in order to comply with FFP. As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
I actually believe the facts that TK mentions which, in order, are deadline-30 days for first interest; deadline-48hrs for derisory offer; deadline-24hrs for negotiation appear to be an acceptable explanation in his view, but may be misleading everyone who listens to that explanation. What he doesn't and hasn't said is that the Sess deal was delayed by the Onomah element, which was how both BBC and Sky initially reported it in their contemporaneous timelines. Where did that come from? I have no idea and I certainly have no way of knowing whether or not TK is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, or just attempting to draw credit from those who dislike Levy. None of it actually matters in the great scheme of things accept for individual responses to the whole video content. I accept the video for what it is and it is most certainly not, in my opinion, as believable in the vast majority of its content as many others on here seem to think it is.
Quote from: ALG01 on August 13, 2019, 03:35:30 PM
I do not know if hector is an upgrade, but IMO we do need an upgrade.
if you choose to think what is easily observable as an opinion not a fact I will not argue with you as it will become a circular discussion in nature.
I do not think we should accept a penny less than the right price for Ryan. TK has brought in many good players this window, we can all see that. Whether it was his doing or in Arter's case, being Scott's brother in law is of little concern it was nearly a good window.
What is in question is if he got those players, and they are apparently of the right quality, even I see that why did he not manage to get some defenders and why was that the only position dependent on the money. the point is Levy is known for brinkmanship so we should have, IMO, had alternatives lined up. TK seems very quick to get midfielders, and wingers but slow with defenders.
IMO with a bit better defence we could walk the division with the players we now have, however IMO without we could well struggle by season end.
I'm please to agree to agree
I think TK said his counter to Levy was loan with option to buy as that didn't effect our FFP position and I think he said that he did more of those because of the delay - this would not be an option for the Chelsea player because he is in the last year of his contract and it was buy him or free transfer - so I guess this is why that one went pear shaped.
TK seems to have learnt from the previous promotion, where we just had loans, and hopefully the guys we have brought in will be good enough for the PL and just need augmenting if we do manage to get promoted. This will give us the continuity we didn't have last season and hopefully a better outcome.
As to priorities - I think that once Seri and Anguissa had been sent out on loan out midfield was aging and threadbare and of course what was left of our forwards, after the loans had gone home, were very light weight - so in my opinion those two area were an absolute priority and we seem to have hit the jackpot (I'm living in hope)
The backs are largely what we had before with Bryan instead of Targett and MLM as back up instead of RS. I think Alfie is a definite improvement over Kalas which left Freddo to replace. The stated intention is to give Steven Sessegnon game time and let him develop into Freddo's replacement - it is a strategy that is not without risk but I remember reading somewhere that until he picked up a serious injury a few seasons ago he was in fact a better prospect than Ryan. Time will tell and we will see.
Like you I would like to have covered all of the bases but I do think our backline was not as desperately in need of a major quality upgrade but not signing someone is not without risks.
Who is responsible for any particular signing is not important to me and I think TK referred to the process as being teamwork, what is important was that he was able to sign them up with his Dad's blessing.
Compared to the new guy down the road who is working with a transfer embargo and the loss of their best player before he arrived - SP has the easiest introduction that any manager / head coach could wish for - a benevolent owner and what most people see as a top notch squad - as always with SK failure is not an option and quite rightly because he's been given the tools to succeed.
Quote from: SG on August 13, 2019, 02:46:20 PM
£45 a year - less than £4 a month - to watch all 46 Fulham games in full, relatively soon after the day of the game, is in my view a bargain. Many of the interviews are nothing to write home about but being able to watch every game is great value - £1 a game.
Never thought about watching a full game back that I've already been at personally - would be interested to see what kind of usage that service gets. Maybe more use for our internet/overseas fanbase, but I would have thought more would watch it live than on repeat. Live is something like £10 a month I think?
I wonder how many people who aren't happy about the paywall are local fans who go to the games, so have less use for the service in general? I don't know anyone who has FFCTV for instance; none of my friends I go to games with have seen the interview. Those who are already paying and use it as their lifeline (can't think of a better word) to the club and matchday experience may view the paywall interview differently because of that?
I often watch a game back that i have been to.Surprising what you can miss at a game.
The full 90? Fair enough. I dont have the patience to watch sport that isn't live over that length of time. I know people who watch nfl matches for hours, studying player by player after a game. I just couldn't do it, but each their own ofcourse.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Quote from: Statto on August 13, 2019, 05:31:20 PM
If this video was pure advertising then no one in their right mind would pay to watch it. Just like no one would pay to have their films interrupted with ads for Andrex and Waitrose. Of course the fact many of us paid for this video, or are so sour that we couldn't watch it without paying, is because it had some value beyond advertising. It was informative, or entertaining, or both.
Also can we have a separate thread for moaning about the paywall rather than commenting on the video itself...
086.gif :hook:
Technically it is people paying for advertising and brand censorship. It's ridiculous.
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
But "the deal we ended up with" was such that, whilst we received a large sum of money, we had no time to spend it. Money you can't spend is essentially worthless. If someone offered me (a) £10 unconditionally, or (b) £1,000,000 on the condition that I can't spend it, I'd take the tenner.
Quote from: Statto on August 13, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
But "the deal we ended up with" was such that, whilst we received a large sum of money, we had no time to spend it. Money you can't spend is essentially worthless. If someone offered me (a) £10 unconditionally, or (b) £1,000,000 on the condition that I can't spend it, I'd take the tenner.
We can spend the money in future windows either loaning players in the second half of the season and/or writing players value off (eg Seri to zero) so that when we sell him we make a profit to buy other players.
Importantly, if we are on track for automatic promotion around christmas, we now have the budget to almost injury proof the last half of the season with three more loan signings. SP needs to get the team in the 42 points to 48 points range after 24 games
Quote from: Statto on August 13, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
But "the deal we ended up with" was such that, whilst we received a large sum of money, we had no time to spend it. Money you can't spend is essentially worthless. If someone offered me (a) £10 unconditionally, or (b) £1,000,000 on the condition that I can't spend it, I'd take the tenner.
The next time I own you £1m - I will be sure to offer you £10 on the spot
It's not money the club can't spend and in fact they appear to have already spent, all of it and more, on the options to buy.
Having given it some thought I think it was a smart move because the last time round we ended up with loans we couldn't convert and when we brought Mitro in more loan players than we could have in the matchday squad, which of course Brighton knew when we offered to buy Ollie Norwood.
So presumably if we need to fine tune with more loans in January - a PL club my have someone to loan that they would never sell - we can complete some of the options - are Cardiff going to say no to having their golden penny ahead of time - and this time round half of our matchday squad doesn't walk or have their value increased if we do offer to buy because they played so brilliantly in our promotion squad (it will be that or SP fired)
Quote from: Statto on August 13, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
But "the deal we ended up with" was such that, whilst we received a large sum of money, we had no time to spend it. Money you can't spend is essentially worthless. If someone offered me (a) £10 unconditionally, or (b) £1,000,000 on the condition that I can't spend it, I'd take the tenner.
Really ? You can't spend the million but what about the interest or your vastly improved credit rating.
Quote from: I Ronic on August 14, 2019, 06:51:19 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 13, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
But "the deal we ended up with" was such that, whilst we received a large sum of money, we had no time to spend it. Money you can't spend is essentially worthless. If someone offered me (a) £10 unconditionally, or (b) £1,000,000 on the condition that I can't spend it, I'd take the tenner.
Really ? You can't spend the million but what about the interest or your vastly improved credit rating.
If that were a factor then it did not do us much good exactly one year ago did it? (Rhetotical)
Credit rating is an absurd concept that encourages people to spend more than they have the clue being in the word 'credit'.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 14, 2019, 07:38:45 AM
Quote from: I Ronic on August 14, 2019, 06:51:19 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 13, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
But "the deal we ended up with" was such that, whilst we received a large sum of money, we had no time to spend it. Money you can't spend is essentially worthless. If someone offered me (a) £10 unconditionally, or (b) £1,000,000 on the condition that I can't spend it, I'd take the tenner.
Really ? You can't spend the million but what about the interest or your vastly improved credit rating.
If that were a factor then it did not do us much good exactly one year ago did it? (Rhetotical)
Credit rating is an absurd concept that encourages people to spend more than they have the clue being in the word 'credit'.
Unfortunately Tosh it's part of the world we live in and without it I along with millions of others would never have got on the housing ladder. There has been the odd period where I spent more than I had, that was my fault.
I may be wrong but it does appear that those people most against giving the club £5 per month to watch content are also the same who moan at the club for not spending millions upon million on new players every time the window opens. Isn't that like the people who moan about the roads, hospitals and schools who also clap themselves on the back for avoiding tax?
Quote from: I Ronic on August 14, 2019, 07:49:52 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 14, 2019, 07:38:45 AM
Quote from: I Ronic on August 14, 2019, 06:51:19 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 13, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
But "the deal we ended up with" was such that, whilst we received a large sum of money, we had no time to spend it. Money you can't spend is essentially worthless. If someone offered me (a) £10 unconditionally, or (b) £1,000,000 on the condition that I can't spend it, I'd take the tenner.
Really ? You can't spend the million but what about the interest or your vastly improved credit rating.
If that were a factor then it did not do us much good exactly one year ago did it? (Rhetotical)
Credit rating is an absurd concept that encourages people to spend more than they have the clue being in the word 'credit'.
Unfortunately Tosh it's part of the world we live in and without it I along with millions of others would never have got on the housing ladder. There has been the odd period where I spent more than I had, that was my fault.
Mortgages have been around for a very, very long time. It once had the special meaning that you'd eventually pay off the debt and own a house. Since house inflation took over via gentrification it has become a get rich quicker scheme for many people whilst pushing house ownership out of reach of many who actually deserve the chance. That is a social problem the importance of which has been highlighted by economic collapse without resolution. In the football environment it is etched out very clearly between haves and have nots.
Credit, prior to plastic cards, was once something you'd spend a considerable time negotiating with a lender most often to be told 'no' which was a fair indication of stretching your ambitions too far.
I think people have missed that we can still buy free agents after deadline day, with the extra £5m we can add Danny Simpson RB, Ashley Williams CB and Ashley Cole LB today plus have cash left over. We have a perfect good backline of S.Sess, Mawson, Ream and Bryan plus Christie, Odoi and MLM as reserves. If that is not enough in a few weeks cause S.Sess fails or Mawson gets injuried, then wages for Danny Simpson, Ashley Williams and Ashley Cole could really beef up the bench.
Amazed this has reached 10 pages
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 07:58:53 AM
I may be wrong but it does appear that those people most against giving the club £5 per month to watch content are also the same who moan at the club for not spending millions upon million on new players every time the window opens. Isn't that like the people who moan about the roads, hospitals and schools who also clap themselves on the back for avoiding tax?
I note you use the word 'giving' rather than 'paying for a product' which perhaps is a Freudian slip. FFC is not a charity. It has become a product in its more middle class days rather than the badge of honour it was in my younger years. People judge products by price and quality and £5 per month (or £45 per year) is still quite an outlay for someone who is living on a tight budget. I get the message from the Khans that they want to attract money to the Club but there are ways and means of doing that without alienating anyone.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 14, 2019, 08:24:56 AM
I think people have missed that we can still buy free agents after deadline day, with the extra £5m we can add Danny Simpson RB, Ashley Williams CB and Ashley Cole LB today plus have cash left over. We have a perfect good backline of S.Sess, Mawson, Ream and Bryan plus Christie, Odoi and MLM as reserves. If that is not enough in a few weeks cause S.Sess fails or Mawson gets injuried, then wages for Danny Simpson, Ashley Williams and Ashley Cole could really beef up the bench.
Don't you think there may be a good reason why these 3 have not been snapped up. The last few times I have seem Williams he has been garbage. Cole was not good enough to replace Malone for Derby except when Malone was suspended or injured.
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 07:58:53 AM
I may be wrong but it does appear that those people most against giving the club £5 per month to watch content are also the same who moan at the club for not spending millions upon million on new players every time the window opens. Isn't that like the people who moan about the roads, hospitals and schools who also clap themselves on the back for avoiding tax?
I believe you are misreading the arguments. I believe it would more accurate to compare those "who moan" to a taxpayer already paying a lot of taxes and then complaining when they do not receive a service (roads, hospitals and schools for example) that they feel that their huge outlay should reasonably warrant. Since the argument from several of those "who moan" was that they already spend a lot of money on season tickets etc.
Whether or not one believes that information such as the interview in question should be available because you have already paid a decent amount for another service is of course debatable.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 14, 2019, 12:30:39 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 13, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
But "the deal we ended up with" was such that, whilst we received a large sum of money, we had no time to spend it. Money you can't spend is essentially worthless. If someone offered me (a) £10 unconditionally, or (b) £1,000,000 on the condition that I can't spend it, I'd take the tenner.
We can spend the money in future windows either loaning players in the second half of the season and/or writing players value off (eg Seri to zero) so that when we sell him we make a profit to buy other players.
Importantly, if we are on track for automatic promotion around christmas, we now have the budget to almost injury proof the last half of the season with three more loan signings. SP needs to get the team in the 42 points to 48 points range after 24 games
Yes you're quite right that we can spend it later and I was of course exaggerating to make a point.
But I do think what a lot of people are missing is that when conditions are attached to when and how you can spend money, they generally diminish its real value.
In this case, the conditions were effectively that we couldn't use the money to buy Hector now.
Whether or not that sacrifice is worth it depends how much Levy was offering in the days before the window closed, which we'll never know. TK says in the video he wasn't prepared to accept "a penny less" than £25m. I'm sure we can all agree that if Levy was offering £24,999,999.99 a week before the window shut, it would have been better to accept that and sign Hector, than to hold out for the extra penny in the final hours of the window. Of course I know TK wasnt talking literally and again, I'm exaggerating to make a point.
The issue is, for me, our chances of promotion will dramatically reduce after this season. If it's scuppered by an injury to Mawson in September and Odoi (as CB) and Christie coming into the back 4, that's £100m in TV money we've lost.
Quote from: Sting of the North on August 14, 2019, 09:13:15 AM
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 07:58:53 AM
I may be wrong but it does appear that those people most against giving the club £5 per month to watch content are also the same who moan at the club for not spending millions upon million on new players every time the window opens. Isn't that like the people who moan about the roads, hospitals and schools who also clap themselves on the back for avoiding tax?
I believe you are misreading the arguments. I believe it would more accurate to compare those "who moan" to a taxpayer already paying a lot of taxes and then complaining when they do not receive a service (roads, hospitals and schools for example) that they feel that their huge outlay should reasonably warrant. Since the argument from several of those "who moan" was that they already spend a lot of money on season tickets etc.
Whether or not one believes that information such as the interview in question should be available because you have already paid a decent amount for another service is of course debatable.
I agree with a lot of what you say and feel that one option would be to give season ticket holders (of which I am not one currently) the service for free, even though as you point out that the service they have contracted with the club for is actually 19 live games as the ground rather than highlights. However, I do notice a correlation between those that seem to feel that they are being ripped off with those that also question TK and the club's transfer policy. There is almost a "TK can do nothing right" mentality within this forum which I suspect would still be the case if he went and bought the Liverpool back line.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 14, 2019, 08:47:57 AM
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 07:58:53 AM
I may be wrong but it does appear that those people most against giving the club £5 per month to watch content are also the same who moan at the club for not spending millions upon million on new players every time the window opens. Isn't that like the people who moan about the roads, hospitals and schools who also clap themselves on the back for avoiding tax?
I note you use the word 'giving' rather than 'paying for a product' which perhaps is a Freudian slip. FFC is not a charity. It has become a product in its more middle class days rather than the badge of honour it was in my younger years. People judge products by price and quality and £5 per month (or £45 per year) is still quite an outlay for someone who is living on a tight budget. I get the message from the Khans that they want to attract money to the Club but there are ways and means of doing that without alienating anyone.
I wouldn't read any extra meaning into my choice of words in this case, I use giving interchangeable with paying in this context. Whilst £5 might seem expensive it is the price of a burger from BK and therefore I personally think it is worth it not having the money at the moment to pay for a season ticket...at least I can see the games. Mind you that is a personal opinion as I have never had a burger from Five Guys because every time I walk into one I see the £7 plus starting price and can't justify paying that for something I can get cheaper elsewhere..doesn't stop me thinking that one day I will buy one though...
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 11:29:19 AM
Quote from: Sting of the North on August 14, 2019, 09:13:15 AM
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 07:58:53 AM
I may be wrong but it does appear that those people most against giving the club £5 per month to watch content are also the same who moan at the club for not spending millions upon million on new players every time the window opens. Isn't that like the people who moan about the roads, hospitals and schools who also clap themselves on the back for avoiding tax?
I believe you are misreading the arguments. I believe it would more accurate to compare those "who moan" to a taxpayer already paying a lot of taxes and then complaining when they do not receive a service (roads, hospitals and schools for example) that they feel that their huge outlay should reasonably warrant. Since the argument from several of those "who moan" was that they already spend a lot of money on season tickets etc.
Whether or not one believes that information such as the interview in question should be available because you have already paid a decent amount for another service is of course debatable.
I agree with a lot of what you say and feel that one option would be to give season ticket holders (of which I am not one currently) the service for free, even though as you point out that the service they have contracted with the club for is actually 19 live games as the ground rather than highlights. However, I do notice a correlation between those that seem to feel that they are being ripped off with those that also question TK and the club's transfer policy. There is almost a "TK can do nothing right" mentality within this forum which I suspect would still be the case if he went and bought the Liverpool back line.
Actually as a supporter of TK who has stuck up for him under heavy fire. Plus a critic of the money grabbing system that insists that we must pay for everything many times over as we do with football. I find your conclusions inaccurate.
It has nothing to do with the title topic - BUT at it seems to be where this thread has gone:-
I happily stump up my £4 soon to be £5 for Fulham TV - it gives me access to a lot of stuff that was not available before and I can access it from where ever in the world I am
I stopped buying programs because I never read them and the money saved more than pays for Fulham TV
As to including it the price of my season ticket - why should all the other season ticket holders pay if they don't want the service? It was much the same as a few years ago when a home cup game was included - why - not everyone wanted to go to it but they had to pay anyway.
I'm more miffed about being sold "ticket exchange" with my season tickets - it was an unconditional statement - two weeks into the season and there is no indication from the club as to when it will start or how it will work - maybe a report to trading standards about mis selling would loosen their tongues.
"Yes you're quite right that we can spend it later and I was of course exaggerating to make a point"
Statto - it wasn't much of a point nor is your new one - there is no end to the size of our squad if you want cover for everyone who might be injured. I have no idea what it is but there is some limit to the number of first team player we can nominate and at some point someone - TK maybe has to say that we have enough.
There are supposed to be some exciting prospects from the academy - Steven Sessegnon is the one most spoken about - if we do not make some effort to bring them through they will all end up following Elliot to Liverpool or some other Pool. Ryan was the only one we have made any real effort to bring through, probably since Sean Davis and that is a terrible state of affairs. If we're going to have an Academy there needs to be some prospect of advancement and we cannot keep bringing in average players to cover for average players - at some point there has to be "one of our own" on the pitch
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 11:29:19 AM
I agree with a lot of what you say and feel that one option would be to give season ticket holders (of which I am not one currently) the service for free, even though as you point out that the service they have contracted with the club for is actually 19 live games as the ground rather than highlights. However, I do notice a correlation between those that seem to feel that they are being ripped off with those that also question TK and the club's transfer policy. There is almost a "TK can do nothing right" mentality within this forum which I suspect would still be the case if he went and bought the Liverpool back line.
I think it is important to be careful to equal potential correlation with actual causation. Just because someone is generally critical of TK doesn't invalidate their concern regarding having to pay to watch him (or anyone else) talk. It may very well be true that some posters are much more prone to complain about this because of TK being involved (although I assume he is not actually involved in the decision of the paywall), but we can of course never know this and it is therefore not a very relevant observation. In my opinion.
Quote from: Sting of the North on August 14, 2019, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 11:29:19 AM
I agree with a lot of what you say and feel that one option would be to give season ticket holders (of which I am not one currently) the service for free, even though as you point out that the service they have contracted with the club for is actually 19 live games as the ground rather than highlights. However, I do notice a correlation between those that seem to feel that they are being ripped off with those that also question TK and the club's transfer policy. There is almost a "TK can do nothing right" mentality within this forum which I suspect would still be the case if he went and bought the Liverpool back line.
I think it is important to be careful to equal potential correlation with actual causation. Just because someone is generally critical of TK doesn't invalidate their concern regarding having to pay to watch him (or anyone else) talk. It may very well be true that some posters are much more prone to complain about this because of TK being involved (although I assume he is not actually involved in the decision of the paywall), but we can of course never know this and it is therefore not a very relevant observation. In my opinion.
Aren't all observations relevant even if they are inaccurate (possibly?) otherwise who sifts observations before allowing them to be made?
Quote from: Roberty on August 14, 2019, 12:27:12 PM
It has nothing to do with the title topic - BUT at it seems to be where this thread has gone:-
I happily stump up my £4 soon to be £5 for Fulham TV - it gives me access to a lot of stuff that was not available before and I can access it from where ever in the world I am
I stopped buying programs because I never read them and the money saved more than pays for Fulham TV
As to including it the price of my season ticket - why should all the other season ticket holders pay if they don't want the service? It was much the same as a few years ago when a home cup game was included - why - not everyone wanted to go to it but they had to pay anyway.
I'm more miffed about being sold "ticket exchange" with my season tickets - it was an unconditional statement - two weeks into the season and there is no indication from the club as to when it will start or how it will work - maybe a report to trading standards about mis selling would loosen their tongues.
Have you ever bought a Five Guys burger though?
Quote from: Roberty on August 14, 2019, 12:27:12 PM
It has nothing to do with the title topic - BUT at it seems to be where this thread has gone:-
I'm more miffed about being sold "ticket exchange" with my season tickets - it was an unconditional statement - two weeks into the season and there is no indication from the club as to when it will start or how it will work - maybe a report to trading standards about mis selling would loosen their tongues.
Same. I wonder if they simply can't manage it and hope we forget about it. They gave FST an update last time around detailing that funds would go to your next season ticket, but no more than that. Believe FST are to ask at their most recent meeting which may have been this week?
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on August 14, 2019, 01:59:13 PM
Quote from: Roberty on August 14, 2019, 12:27:12 PM
It has nothing to do with the title topic - BUT at it seems to be where this thread has gone:-
I'm more miffed about being sold "ticket exchange" with my season tickets - it was an unconditional statement - two weeks into the season and there is no indication from the club as to when it will start or how it will work - maybe a report to trading standards about mis selling would loosen their tongues.
Same. I wonder if they simply can't manage it and hope we forget about it. They gave FST an update last time around detailing that funds would go to your next season ticket, but no more than that. Believe FST are to ask at their most recent meeting which may have been this week?
I read that too and I don't have a problem with that - I think the same notes also said the publication was imminent as did a reply to an email I sent to the club in July.
Season ticket holders have the best seats with the best views of the pitch - it is a waste that they are left empty when the holder cannot attend and people have to sit behind girders that hold up the roof.
It will also be the case that if the club doesn't do something the touts will if demand outstrips supply - season ticket seats for the bigger clubs are regularly sold online - for double or triple the face value - and delivered to the hotel where the purchaser stays - they have to be returned in a prepaid envelope or left with the hotel for collection after the match.
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 01:52:40 PM
Have you ever bought a Five Guys burger though?
No - I'm not brave or stupid enough - I also don't have a rocky table that needs a wedge under one leg
How can you call yourself King of cheese if you've never had a five guys cheeseburger?
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 01:50:53 PM
I think it is important to be careful to equal potential correlation with actual causation. Just because someone is generally critical of TK doesn't invalidate their concern regarding having to pay to watch him (or anyone else) talk. It may very well be true that some posters are much more prone to complain about this because of TK being involved (although I assume he is not actually involved in the decision of the paywall), but we can of course never know this and it is therefore not a very relevant observation. In my opinion.
Aren't all observations relevant even if they are inaccurate (possibly?) otherwise who sifts observations before allowing them to be made?
[/quote]
Ok, first off all observations are of course not relevant for everything else. Secondly, I never claimed that your observation was inaccurate, but rather indicated that a conclusion based on said observation was not necessarily very accurate in this particular case (personal opinion, based on my opinion that the observation was not very relevant). Lastly, I don't think that anyone has to obtain approval in order to share their observations, and also never claimed such a thing.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on August 14, 2019, 02:20:42 PM
How can you call yourself King of cheese if you've never had a five guys cheeseburger?
You have a point..I might have to look at my other nome de plumes too "Lord of Lettuce" "Tsar of Tomatoes" "Baron of Beef" ...
Quote from: Sting of the North on August 14, 2019, 02:24:54 PM
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 01:50:53 PM
I think it is important to be careful to equal potential correlation with actual causation. Just because someone is generally critical of TK doesn't invalidate their concern regarding having to pay to watch him (or anyone else) talk. It may very well be true that some posters are much more prone to complain about this because of TK being involved (although I assume he is not actually involved in the decision of the paywall), but we can of course never know this and it is therefore not a very relevant observation. In my opinion.
Aren't all observations relevant even if they are inaccurate (possibly?) otherwise who sifts observations before allowing them to be made?
Ok, first off all observations are of course not relevant for everything else. Secondly, I never claimed that your observation was inaccurate, but rather indicated that a conclusion based on said observation was not necessarily very accurate in this particular case (personal opinion, based on my opinion that the observation was not very relevant). Lastly, I don't think that anyone has to obtain approval in order to share their observations, and also never claimed such a thing.
[/quote]
""No," said the priest, "you don't need to accept everything as true, you only have to accept it as necessary." "Depressing view," said K. "The lie made into the rule of the world."
― Franz Kafka, The Trial
Quote from: KingofCheese on August 14, 2019, 04:52:01 PM
Quote from: mrmicawbers on August 14, 2019, 02:20:42 PM
How can you call yourself King of cheese if you've never had a five guys cheeseburger?
You have a point..I might have to look at my other nome de plumes too "Lord of Lettuce" "Tsar of Tomatoes" "Baron of Beef" ...
#
Probably steer clear of Baron of Beef
Quote from: love4ffc on August 14, 2019, 08:27:50 AM
Amazed this has reached 10 pages
Nothing is as melodious as the sound of ones own voice. I suspect this applies to the click clack of one's own keyboard.
Quote from: Statto on August 14, 2019, 09:14:38 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 14, 2019, 12:30:39 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 13, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Arthur on August 13, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
As I read it, it was only when it became evident to Levy that, if he walked away from our valuation, we wouldn't be running after him, we got the deal we ended up with. Well done, Fulham.
But "the deal we ended up with" was such that, whilst we received a large sum of money, we had no time to spend it. Money you can't spend is essentially worthless. If someone offered me (a) £10 unconditionally, or (b) £1,000,000 on the condition that I can't spend it, I'd take the tenner.
We can spend the money in future windows either loaning players in the second half of the season and/or writing players value off (eg Seri to zero) so that when we sell him we make a profit to buy other players.
Importantly, if we are on track for automatic promotion around christmas, we now have the budget to almost injury proof the last half of the season with three more loan signings. SP needs to get the team in the 42 points to 48 points range after 24 games
Yes you're quite right that we can spend it later and I was of course exaggerating to make a point.
But I do think what a lot of people are missing is that when conditions are attached to when and how you can spend money, they generally diminish its real value.
In this case, the conditions were effectively that we couldn't use the money to buy Hector now.
Whether or not that sacrifice is worth it depends how much Levy was offering in the days before the window closed, which we'll never know. TK says in the video he wasn't prepared to accept "a penny less" than £25m. I'm sure we can all agree that if Levy was offering £24,999,999.99 a week before the window shut, it would have been better to accept that and sign Hector, than to hold out for the extra penny in the final hours of the window. Of course I know TK wasnt talking literally and again, I'm exaggerating to make a point.
The issue is, for me, our chances of promotion will dramatically reduce after this season. If it's scuppered by an injury to Mawson in September and Odoi (as CB) and Christie coming into the back 4, that's £100m in TV money we've lost.
If Mawson is injuried in September, then we will all regret not buying Hector, but if Mawson is injuried in late December we can spend double on his replacement. In addition, if our backline does the job and left wing or right back needs an upgrade we will be better off waiting. Personally, i didn't like buying Hector or any backs, because i think we needed to focus on wingers and midfielders. If attack and midfield is sorted out, next window we need to focus on the right side of defense.
Quote from: sarnian on August 14, 2019, 08:54:03 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 14, 2019, 08:24:56 AM
I think people have missed that we can still buy free agents after deadline day, with the extra £5m we can add Danny Simpson RB, Ashley Williams CB and Ashley Cole LB today plus have cash left over. We have a perfect good backline of S.Sess, Mawson, Ream and Bryan plus Christie, Odoi and MLM as reserves. If that is not enough in a few weeks cause S.Sess fails or Mawson gets injuried, then wages for Danny Simpson, Ashley Williams and Ashley Cole could really beef up the bench.
Don't you think there may be a good reason why these 3 have not been snapped up. The last few times I have seem Williams he has been garbage. Cole was not good enough to replace Malone for Derby except when Malone was suspended or injured.
We only need these players if Mawson, Ream and Bryan get injuried. Ashley Williams is an upgrade on Djola if required.
