After reading about Cyrus Christie and the abuse his sister suffered, I read in the metro today that Darren Bent said he only suffered racial abuse at Fulham. I do find it hard to believe that it wasn't anywhere else, but is it really that bad? What are the club doing about it if it is? There's no need for it in this day and age to be honest.
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on August 14, 2019, 07:17:34 AM
After reading about Cyrus Christie and the abuse his sister suffered, I read in the metro today that Darren Bent said he only suffered racial abuse at Fulham. I do find it hard to believe that it wasn't anywhere else, but is it really that bad? What are the club doing about it if it is? There's no need for it in this day and age to be honest.
The only time we gave him any abuse (not racial)was when he scored for Brighton against us away and ran towards us and mocked the Fulham fans! we then scored 2 and shut the lazy twit up!!
Funny how once a player of different race has jumped on another players band wagon rather than say anything about it at all when it allegedly happened??
I read on here a while ago that some Fulham "fans" abused Darren Bent in front of his wife and child(ren) at the car park after a game.
I wouldn't be surprised if that is the incident he is talking about.
Darren Bent took a lot of stuff because he appeared lazy. I'm not sure about racism though. Sadly it is racism that made a lot of people vote Brexit so it is no good thinking it doesn't exist
Quote from: Andy S on August 14, 2019, 08:53:16 AM
Darren Bent took a lot of stuff because he appeared lazy. I'm not sure about racism though. Sadly it is racism that made a lot of people vote Brexit so it is no good thinking it doesn't exist
I can never understand how some fans can be racist until said player scores then they're celebrating. It's not as if players with different historical racial origins are still the exception in teams these days.
Bent, however, (whether white or black) never seemed to try or care very much. The same can't be said of Christie.
I voted for Brexit. Am I to assume that, by doing that, I am a racist? The last time I looked, I wasn't.
Quote from: New Kid on the Block on August 14, 2019, 09:01:13 AM
I voted for Brexit. Am I to assume that, by doing that, I am a racist? The last time I looked, I wasn't.
0001.jpeg
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/nov/28/darren-bent-mother-racial-abuse-sunderland (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/nov/28/darren-bent-mother-racial-abuse-sunderland)
QuoteDarren Bent has claimed his mother was racially abused by a Sunderland fan during his side's 1-0 defeat at Wigan.
The Sunderland striker posted the claim on his Twitter feed shortly after the match, which was settled by Hugo Rodallega's 76th-minute goal. Bent's original post read: "So we get beaten by Wigan and to make matters worse my mum gets racially abused by a Sunderland fan. I won't stand for that."
--------------
https://www.metro.news/darren-bent/1674179/ (https://www.metro.news/darren-bent/1674179/)
QuoteCyrus is 100 per cent right. I've had trouble with Fulham fans. My family have never really complained about it anywhere else other than at Fulham.
--------------
The contradiction here doesn't lend any credence to the Cyrus Christie
allegations.
Sorry but do we have to have another racism/politics thread FFS.
I have to say, I can't recall at any point Bent complaining or having made complaints about racial abuse. There was a well documented video of some clowns calling him out for his bad performances, wrongly in my opinion, but ultimately, it all started with some young fans having waited for autographs and he refused to do them, then it all kicked off. Someone mentioned being on that much money, how could he not and his retort was to ask fans how much they earn......
I don't like Bent, never have. he's from where I grew up and he was known as a Bell there too. Not condoning any racial abuse obviously, that should go without saying, but I feel like he's jumping on the bandwagon here with his bitterness towards Fulham.
Quote from: New Kid on the Block on August 14, 2019, 09:01:13 AM
I voted for Brexit. Am I to assume that, by doing that, I am a racist? The last time I looked, I wasn't.
Of course not, cant paint everyone with the same brush.
Some people had very legitimate reasons for voting for Brexit. Others didnt. The amount of overt or public racism increased in the time following the referendum but to say all that voted Brexit are racist is of course not true.
This thread has a risk of getting off topic.
Unfortunately racism will always feature in football. There need to be stronger ramifications. I am worried that the Cyrus Christie incident will result in a slapped wrist when it should result in prison time.
BTW what has happened with the Christie situation? No arrests reported so far. Surely with all those witnesses and the seat booking, and apparently someone handing themselves into police, they should have been able to arrest someone by now. If it emerges that no offence was committed, will Christie post a public apology?
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2019, 09:25:47 AM
I have to say, I can't recall at any point Bent complaining or having made complaints about racial abuse. There was a well documented video of some clowns calling him out for his bad performances, wrongly in my opinion, but ultimately, it all started with some young fans having waited for autographs and he refused to do them, then it all kicked off. Someone mentioned being on that much money, how could he not and his retort was to ask fans how much they earn......
I don't like Bent, never have. he's from where I grew up and he was known as a Bell there too. Not condoning any racial abuse obviously, that should go without saying, but I feel like he's jumping on the bandwagon here with his bitterness towards Fulham.
I agree, Bent was a lazy arrogant individual, whatever he may say I take with a pinch of salt, he lost his credibility many years ago.
This thread is not about Brexit, so steer clear of it else I'm hitting the "Lock" button!
Quote from: Ols_S on August 14, 2019, 09:29:01 AM
Quote from: New Kid on the Block on August 14, 2019, 09:01:13 AM
I voted for Brexit. Am I to assume that, by doing that, I am a racist? The last time I looked, I wasn't.
Of course not, cant paint everyone with the same brush.
Some people had very legitimate reasons for voting for Brexit. Others didnt. The amount of overt or public racism increased in the time following the referendum but to say all that voted Brexit are racist is of course not true.
This thread has a risk of getting off topic.
Unfortunately racism will always feature in football. There need to be stronger ramifications. I am worried that the Cyrus Christie incident will result in a slapped wrist when it should result in prison time.
I don't think they send anyone to prison these days.
0001.jpeg
How many times has an individual been in a situation where they have been involved in an altercation with another human being? People tend, when upset, to attack the one thing they can see. You fat so and so. You black so and so. You long haired so and so. You gay so and so. You rich so and so.
Often we mistake attacks as racially based when they are in fact anger based. Attacks on Women, on people of a different colour, on people who appear to be different or just appear to have more. Often are anger and frustration based. It doesn't detract from the fact that it is wrong. But too often people blame attacks on a simple explanation. When frankly at football people will often shout at players, all be it a wrong reaction. because they played poorly or appeared to not put in much effort for the huge wages they received.
It isn't always because you are black that you get abuse. It is that you are perceived to be not very good.
Quote from: Andy S on August 14, 2019, 08:53:16 AM
Darren Bent took a lot of stuff because he appeared lazy. I'm not sure about racism though. Sadly it is racism that made a lot of people vote Brexit so it is no good thinking it doesn't exist
A very sweeping statement!
I voted to leave but I am not a Racist so may I suggest you keep that opinion on that subject to yourself in future as you have no idea why individual free minded people voted to leave
Let me confirm that I am in no way condoning any form of racism, and to prove it, about a month ago on a tube, I noticed three young black guys follow a flustered looking white guy down the carriage until he sat down near where I was standing, and they sat opposite him, saying to him quite calmly, gammon head, and honky and load of other stuff I could not understand, kept mentioning blood clot. I could not just stand there and ignore it, so I asked them nicely why are they talking to him like that. They looked shocked that anyone would challenge them, but they never answered, so I said why don't you say that to me, they just looked at each other, and got off at the next stop, I think they went in another carriage. The guy thanked me and said he was worried they might be carrying knives, I said to him so was I.
Which brings me to some words of wisdom one of my neighbours was saying, that the "race card is a tool of the intellectually weak and lazy, when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data ". Obviously I am sure this bares no relation to Christie incident, which is a separate issue in its own right, just saying it's not all one way, and it appears to be getting worse instead of better, and I blame amongst other things soft sentencing, not enough police on the streets, who have one hand tied behind their backs, the London Mayor and all the liberal woolly headed snow flake out of touch members of the establishment, and that's just for starters.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on August 14, 2019, 09:12:18 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/nov/28/darren-bent-mother-racial-abuse-sunderland (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/nov/28/darren-bent-mother-racial-abuse-sunderland)
QuoteDarren Bent has claimed his mother was racially abused by a Sunderland fan during his side's 1-0 defeat at Wigan.
The Sunderland striker posted the claim on his Twitter feed shortly after the match, which was settled by Hugo Rodallega's 76th-minute goal. Bent's original post read: "So we get beaten by Wigan and to make matters worse my mum gets racially abused by a Sunderland fan. I won't stand for that."
--------------
https://www.metro.news/darren-bent/1674179/ (https://www.metro.news/darren-bent/1674179/)
QuoteCyrus is 100 per cent right. I've had trouble with Fulham fans. My family have never really complained about it anywhere else other than at Fulham.
--------------
The contradiction here doesn't lend any credence to the Cyrus Christie allegations.
You have researched and found a discrepancy which isn't altogether unusual in contemporary society. We are all human beings and tend to respond in given ways even when we do know better. I am sure all footballers give and suffer abuse in a measure which unfortunately doesn't always work out to be fair, through some people's eyes. As Lighthouse says anger and rage is something that for a while can go dangerously close to being uncontrollable, and is often based upon the most trivial incidents when it does so.
As far as I can tell South Yorkshire police did not receive a complaint on the Christie affair, and that may suggest all parties considered there was a better way towards a satisfactory solution to whatever did happen.
Quote from: KJS on August 14, 2019, 10:30:17 AM
Quote from: Andy S on August 14, 2019, 08:53:16 AM
Darren Bent took a lot of stuff because he appeared lazy. I'm not sure about racism though. Sadly it is racism that made a lot of people vote Brexit so it is no good thinking it doesn't exist
A very sweeping statement!
I voted to leave but I am not a Racist so may I suggest you keep that opinion on that subject to yourself in future as you have no idea why individual free minded people voted to leave
Exactly right KJS I could not have put it better myself.
As mentioned above, Bent made no comment on this at the time he was at Fulham which is a shame as the club could have acted then to raise the awareness of racism in football and at Fulham in particular. This may have meant this awful incident with Christie could have been avoided.
I have never heard any racist comments at Fulham or seen any racist behaviour but that does not mean to say that it doesn't happen every so often. Maybe some newer fans feel they need to try the alpha male thing and impress their friends by making racist comments. I do hope though this is an absolute minority and the club and us fans deal with it and get it out of our club.
This thread wasn't supposed to be about Brexit, it was supposed to be about racism in football. The UK, and the world as a whole is a very sexist and racist place. It doesn't stop and unlikely to ever stop, but I was simply asking if it is more common than I was led to believe at Fulham!
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on August 14, 2019, 11:17:20 AM
This thread wasn't supposed to be about Brexit, it was supposed to be about racism in football. The UK, and the world as a whole is a very sexist and racist place. It doesn't stop and unlikely to ever stop, but I was simply asking if it is more common than I was led to believe at Fulham!
I think the answer to that is yes. If as was reported on here, people were singing songs supporting a currently imprisoned far right thug, then there is a racist element. Having said that a lot of clubs have that issue at the moment.
Quote from: snarks on August 14, 2019, 11:39:04 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on August 14, 2019, 11:17:20 AM
This thread wasn't supposed to be about Brexit, it was supposed to be about racism in football. The UK, and the world as a whole is a very sexist and racist place. It doesn't stop and unlikely to ever stop, but I was simply asking if it is more common than I was led to believe at Fulham!
I think the answer to that is yes. If as was reported on here, people were singing songs supporting a currently imprisoned far right thug, then there is a racist element. Having said that a lot of clubs have that issue at the moment.
I suggest shutting this thread down now. We've already seen a conflation to Brexit and racism and now someone who supports Tommy Robinson (assuming thats the right winger you're referencing) is now also conflated to racism. Its not helpful or productive to do so other than pushing a more left wing political message which I believe is against the boards rules no?
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
I suggest shutting this thread down now.
1,000% agree, should have been deleted immediately
Get some sense mods, surely this is a breach of the no politics rule and the thread will obviously go the same way as all the others, souring the relatively good vibe we have on here at the moment following the Barnsley result
There is a button you can press. 'Report to Moderator' Instead of all this fake outrage I suggest those who object press it.
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 14, 2019, 12:07:22 PM
There is a button you can press. 'Report to Moderator' Instead of all this fake outrage I suggest those who object press it.
It's hardly fake outrage though is it.....I think outrage is the wrong word entirely.
Quote from: Statto on August 14, 2019, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
I suggest shutting this thread down now.
1,000% agree, should have been deleted immediately
Get some sense mods, surely this is a breach of the no politics rule and the thread will obviously go the same way as all the others, souring the relatively good vibe we have on here at the moment following the Barnsley result
Blackburn, surely!
Quote from: Holders on August 14, 2019, 12:27:25 PM
Quote from: Statto on August 14, 2019, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
I suggest shutting this thread down now.
1,000% agree, should have been deleted immediately
Get some sense mods, surely this is a breach of the no politics rule and the thread will obviously go the same way as all the others, souring the relatively good vibe we have on here at the moment following the Barnsley result
Blackburn, surely!
nah, we were all celebrating Woodrow......
Fulham is a mirror of society. We are not better or worse.
Unfortunately people seem to be more openly racist and sexist these days. The racism and sexism always was there but people used to be quieter about it.
I've never seen racism at Fulham or with Fulham away, and don't believe we have a significant problem apart from a few youngsters trying to be big..
Certainly no worse than most other clubs, and probably a lot less than some i could mention. Football represents a cross section of society, so you are bound to get some individuals with unacceptable views but they aren't representative of Fulham fans generally - who I think are mostly a very well behaved, civilised lot.
The incidents, though not at all acceptable, and tarnishing Fulham's reputation, are very isolated, I think. Sit amongst Chelsea , West Ham or Millwall fans, and you will hear far , far worse, than you will ever get at Fulham, where you probably won't hear anything untoward.
Quote from: KJS on August 14, 2019, 07:53:02 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on August 14, 2019, 07:17:34 AM
After reading about Cyrus Christie and the abuse his sister suffered, I read in the metro today that Darren Bent said he only suffered racial abuse at Fulham. I do find it hard to believe that it wasn't anywhere else, but is it really that bad? What are the club doing about it if it is? There's no need for it in this day and age to be honest.
The only time we gave him any abuse (not racial)was when he scored for Brighton against us away and ran towards us and mocked the Fulham fans! we then scored 2 and shut the lazy twit up!!
Funny how once a player of different race has jumped on another players band wagon rather than say anything about it at all when it allegedly happened??
0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on August 14, 2019, 12:32:57 PM
Fulham is a mirror of society. We are not better or worse.
Unfortunately people seem to be more openly racist and sexist these days. The racism and sexism always was there but people used to be quieter about it.
See, I don't think this is true at all really. If you compare society from say 60's-80's to now, its not comparable in the slightest, so the idea that we've gone backwards is a little hard to take seriously. Having grown up in a very racist area of the UK, people are still openly racist there now, but I think its way less than it was. We still have problems, but the scale of it is way less than it ever was.
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on August 14, 2019, 12:32:57 PM
Fulham is a mirror of society. We are not better or worse.
Unfortunately people seem to be more openly racist and sexist these days. The racism and sexism always was there but people used to be quieter about it.
not at all, people are just finding offence in everything these days , some spend all their days being "offended" snowflake society
Quote from: epsomraver on August 14, 2019, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on August 14, 2019, 12:32:57 PM
Fulham is a mirror of society. We are not better or worse.
Unfortunately people seem to be more openly racist and sexist these days. The racism and sexism always was there but people used to be quieter about it.
not at all, people are just finding offence in everything these days , some spend all their days being "offended" snowflake society
As much as I think we look for it more, I think the fact social media highlights it way more is also a reason. Like the media, we tend to focus on the low hanging fruit vocal minority of opinion rather than the massive positives we've made in the last decade. It's a shame really.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2019, 10:52:06 AM
Quote from: KJS on August 14, 2019, 10:30:17 AM
Quote from: Andy S on August 14, 2019, 08:53:16 AM
Darren Bent took a lot of stuff because he appeared lazy. I'm not sure about racism though. Sadly it is racism that made a lot of people vote Brexit so it is no good thinking it doesn't exist
A very sweeping statement!
I voted to leave but I am not a Racist so may I suggest you keep that opinion on that subject to yourself in future as you have no idea why individual free minded people voted to leave
Exactly right KJS I could not have put it better myself.
0001.jpeg
I'm a racist against lazy footballers not trying whilst playing for FFC and copping £25k a week when we pay our measly £40 to watch them - irrespective of white black or green
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2019, 12:37:35 PM
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on August 14, 2019, 12:32:57 PM
Fulham is a mirror of society. We are not better or worse.
Unfortunately people seem to be more openly racist and sexist these days. The racism and sexism always was there but people used to be quieter about it.
See, I don't think this is true at all really. If you compare society from say 60's-80's to now, its not comparable in the slightest, so the idea that we've gone backwards is a little hard to take seriously. Having grown up in a very racist area of the UK, people are still openly racist there now, but I think its way less than it was. We still have problems, but the scale of it is way less than it ever was.
For Enoch Powell you now have Trump. Just one analogy I know - but it's not got better, it's not got worse either to be fair
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on August 14, 2019, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2019, 12:37:35 PM
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on August 14, 2019, 12:32:57 PM
Fulham is a mirror of society. We are not better or worse.
Unfortunately people seem to be more openly racist and sexist these days. The racism and sexism always was there but people used to be quieter about it.
See, I don't think this is true at all really. If you compare society from say 60's-80's to now, its not comparable in the slightest, so the idea that we've gone backwards is a little hard to take seriously. Having grown up in a very racist area of the UK, people are still openly racist there now, but I think its way less than it was. We still have problems, but the scale of it is way less than it ever was.
For Enoch Powell you now have Trump. Just one analogy I know - but it's not got better, it's not got worse either to be fair
Hmm agree to disagree. We've got way better.
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 14, 2019, 10:01:07 AM
How many times has an individual been in a situation where they have been involved in an altercation with another human being? People tend, when upset, to attack the one thing they can see. You fat so and so. You black so and so. You long haired so and so. You gay so and so. You rich so and so.
Often we mistake attacks as racially based when they are in fact anger based. Attacks on Women, on people of a different colour, on people who appear to be different or just appear to have more. Often are anger and frustration based. It doesn't detract from the fact that it is wrong. But too often people blame attacks on a simple explanation. When frankly at football people will often shout at players, all be it a wrong reaction. because they played poorly or appeared to not put in much effort for the huge wages they received.
It isn't always because you are black that you get abuse. It is that you are perceived to be not very good.
well said 0001.jpeg
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 14, 2019, 10:01:07 AM
How many times has an individual been in a situation where they have been involved in an altercation with another human being? People tend, when upset, to attack the one thing they can see. You fat so and so. You black so and so. You long haired so and so. You gay so and so. You rich so and so.
Often we mistake attacks as racially based when they are in fact anger based. Attacks on Women, on people of a different colour, on people who appear to be different or just appear to have more. Often are anger and frustration based. It doesn't detract from the fact that it is wrong. But too often people blame attacks on a simple explanation. When frankly at football people will often shout at players, all be it a wrong reaction. because they played poorly or appeared to not put in much effort for the huge wages they received.
It isn't always because you are black that you get abuse. It is that you are perceived to be not very good.
Have to completely agree with this post, when you are angry you want to hurt the person you are angry with and one way of doing that is to attack something of a personal nature such as height, weight, colour or sex.
Maybe it is just me but I cannot recall any racist terms being used in the ground at Fulham, but if a player scores against us and then goes to the Fulham fans to celebrate what do they expect, I remember when the muppet Sturridge did just that and posed in front of the Hammy End, he was not given a standing ovation, I even used some choice words myself but not of a racist nature.
Quote from: epsomraver on August 14, 2019, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on August 14, 2019, 12:32:57 PM
Fulham is a mirror of society. We are not better or worse.
Unfortunately people seem to be more openly racist and sexist these days. The racism and sexism always was there but people used to be quieter about it.
not at all, people are just finding offence in everything these days , some spend all their days being "offended" snowflake society
Agree with you entirely Epsomraver, these woolly headed liberals look for offence even when it's not there, it's pathetic.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 14, 2019, 02:19:25 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on August 14, 2019, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on August 14, 2019, 12:32:57 PM
Fulham is a mirror of society. We are not better or worse.
Unfortunately people seem to be more openly racist and sexist these days. The racism and sexism always was there but people used to be quieter about it.
not at all, people are just finding offence in everything these days , some spend all their days being "offended" snowflake society
Agree with you entirely Epsomraver, these woolly headed liberals look for offence even when it's not there, it's pathetic.
I find that wholly offensive.
This thread wasn't supposed to get personal or political, it was simply a means to discuss racism and if it is an ongoing problem with some of our supporters.
I know other clubs have it far, far worse. Chelsea's ex captain was a proven racist, so hows that going to help change the views of a few idiots?
Quote from: New Kid on the Block on August 14, 2019, 09:01:13 AM
I voted for Brexit. Am I to assume that, by doing that, I am a racist? The last time I looked, I wasn't.
+1
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: snarks on August 14, 2019, 11:39:04 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on August 14, 2019, 11:17:20 AM
This thread wasn't supposed to be about Brexit, it was supposed to be about racism in football. The UK, and the world as a whole is a very sexist and racist place. It doesn't stop and unlikely to ever stop, but I was simply asking if it is more common than I was led to believe at Fulham!
I think the answer to that is yes. If as was reported on here, people were singing songs supporting a currently imprisoned far right thug, then there is a racist element. Having said that a lot of clubs have that issue at the moment.
I suggest shutting this thread down now. We've already seen a conflation to Brexit and racism and now someone who supports Tommy Robinson (assuming thats the right winger you're referencing) is now also conflated to racism. Its not helpful or productive to do so other than pushing a more left wing political message which I believe is against the boards rules no?
Yes SYL is who I was talking about and he is a racist, so by supporting him people are supporting a racist. If we have fans who support him, then we have a racist element. I was dealing with the original question. I have not met a racist Fulham fan, indeed I always thought we were a very even handed lot. I'm keeping politics entirely out of this, just commenting on the racism originally questioned.
Quote from: snarks on August 14, 2019, 03:26:13 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: snarks on August 14, 2019, 11:39:04 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on August 14, 2019, 11:17:20 AM
This thread wasn't supposed to be about Brexit, it was supposed to be about racism in football. The UK, and the world as a whole is a very sexist and racist place. It doesn't stop and unlikely to ever stop, but I was simply asking if it is more common than I was led to believe at Fulham!
I think the answer to that is yes. If as was reported on here, people were singing songs supporting a currently imprisoned far right thug, then there is a racist element. Having said that a lot of clubs have that issue at the moment.
I suggest shutting this thread down now. We've already seen a conflation to Brexit and racism and now someone who supports Tommy Robinson (assuming thats the right winger you're referencing) is now also conflated to racism. Its not helpful or productive to do so other than pushing a more left wing political message which I believe is against the boards rules no?
Yes SYL is who I was talking about and he is a racist, so by supporting him people are supporting a racist. If we have fans who support him, then we have a racist element. I was dealing with the original question. I have not met a racist Fulham fan, indeed I always thought we were a very even handed lot. I'm keeping politics entirely out of this, just commenting on the racism originally questioned.
I'm not going into the tedious discussion of whether he is or isn't a racist but the flawed logic that one can stand up for him and automatically be racist is in itself, absurd. As an FYI, I don't like the bloke but I don't consider him a 'racist', misguided, often wrong with a unsavoury obsession with a certain religion, sure, but not racist.
This thread has been locked. In the future please do not bring politics into the discussion.
Personally, I am all for people having a discussion on racism. Having healthy discussions is the only way we will ever solve problems. However, there is no need to bring in politics or berate other members.
