Hector To Join In January
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The Club is delighted to confirm that Michael Hector will join from Chelsea in January for an undisclosed fee.
Hector, 27, has penned a deal which ties him to Fulham until at least the summer of 2022, with the Club holding an option to extend by a further 12 months.
Hector will be training at Motspur Park ahead of what will be a vital second half of the season.
The imposing centre-back spent last season on loan at Sheffield Wednesday, playing 37 times in the Championship and subsequently winning the Owls' Player of the Year trophy.
Speaking after making the short move across SW6, Hector told fulhamfc.com: "It was an easy decision to make. My Mum's from Fulham, so it's nice to join a club that some of my family support.
"It's good to now be a part of the setup here. Hopefully things can work out well and we can get promoted. I know how tough the Championship is and it won't be any different for us.
"We'll have to work hard for it but the squad is very good and my job will be to help them push for promotion."
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Having added a defender to his ranks, Tony Khan said: "Michael Hector is a talented central defender with experience in the Championship, where he was Sheffield Wednesday's Player of the Year last season, and his imposing height will bring a new dimension to our defence.
"Although Michael can't officially join our First Team until January, what's important is he's now a member of Fulham Football Club. Michael will help us challenge for promotion and make us better in the second half of the season, at a time when depth, experience and quality will be at a premium in the Championship. Come on Fulham!"
Hector began his career at Reading and, after taking in several loan spells, established himself in the Royals backline in 2014/15, with his performances attracting the attentions of Chelsea who brought him to Stamford Bridge that summer.
He then gained valuable experience across a variety of loan stints. After a year back at the Madejski Stadium, he sampled German football with Eintracht Frankfurt in 2016/17, featuring 27 times as they finished 11th in the Bundesliga and reached the German Cup Final.
Hector was back in the Championship for the subsequent two seasons, racking up a total of 77 appearances for Hull City and Sheffield Wednesday.
A full Jamaican international, Hector has represented his country at the Copa America and the Gold Cup, helping them to the Final of the latter in 2015.
http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2019/september/05/michael-hector-to-join-fulham-in-january
Good one - recruitment department really doing well this summer. Learning from their mistakes potentially
Great signing. The new year is a long way away though, can he play for the U23s in the meantime, otherwise will lack match fitness come January?
great stuff that, shame we couldn't get it done last month but another positive signing from TK, exactly what we need
On the website now
http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2019/september/05/michael-hector-to-join-fulham-in-january
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on September 05, 2019, 04:12:44 PM
Good one - recruitment department really doing well this summer. Learning from their mistakes potentially
Agreed, putting aside any criticism for not signing him on deadline day, this was the next best thing. Perm deal as well. Nice to see the club showing some ingenuity and shrewdness in transfer dealings.
Quote from: lomotd on September 05, 2019, 04:13:19 PM
Great signing. The new year is a long way away though, can he play for the U23s in the meantime, otherwise will lack match fitness come January?
Don't believe so as they're official matches and he's not a registered player until January, although if we had a friendly then I think he probably can
Quote from: Deeping_white on September 05, 2019, 04:34:36 PM
Quote from: lomotd on September 05, 2019, 04:13:19 PM
Great signing. The new year is a long way away though, can he play for the U23s in the meantime, otherwise will lack match fitness come January?
Don't believe so as they're official matches and he's not a registered player until January, although if we had a friendly then I think he probably can
Hopefully the club arrange some under 23 friendly matches before January to help build his match fitness. I'm sure he'll get a run out in in the FA Cup in early jan as well.
Good job TK.
Now we just need Mawson and Ream to stay healthy at least until January.
Since he was going to be out of contract at the end of this season, I presume we got a hefty discount on the price we were thinking to pay in August.
Maybe TK has learnt some lessons about the art of brinkmanship from Danial Levy
Well, let's all hope he is as good as we think he is.
Appears to be another good signing, well done to all involved.
How tall is he??
Wonder if we will use this as a precedent and start signing players during the season so they can join as soon as the window opens?
Quote from: Fernhurst on September 05, 2019, 05:08:07 PM
Well, let's all hope he is as good as we think he is.
Appears to be another good signing, well done to all involved.
How tall is he??
He's 6"3 I believe so would be the tallest CB we have
Quote from: Roberty on September 05, 2019, 05:04:23 PM
Since he was going to be out of contract at the end of this season, I presume we got a hefty discount on the price we were thinking to pay in August.
Maybe TK has learnt some lessons about the art of brinkmanship from Danial Levy
What, because 4 weeks ago his contract still had sooooo much longer left to run than it does now?
Quote from: Statto on September 05, 2019, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: Roberty on September 05, 2019, 05:04:23 PM
Since he was going to be out of contract at the end of this season, I presume we got a hefty discount on the price we were thinking to pay in August.
Maybe TK has learnt some lessons about the art of brinkmanship from Danial Levy
What, because 4 weeks ago his contract still had sooooo much longer left to run than it does now?
He isn't signed until January.
Quote from: Deeping_white on September 05, 2019, 06:01:34 PM
Quote from: Fernhurst on September 05, 2019, 05:08:07 PM
Well, let's all hope he is as good as we think he is.
Appears to be another good signing, well done to all involved.
How tall is he??
He's 6"3 I believe so would be the tallest CB we have
Thank you .... now if we can just get someone to take a corner we may get a couple of goals this season.
He can speak to Harvey Smelliot about top bunches hair do's
What is great as well, is that he is training with us. This means that on the 1st of January he can start and is already used to be playing with the rest of the team. No settling in period etc!
Well done!!
Well he will probably be injured in a freak boating accident the last day of December. Still it makes good sense to have him here.
Quote from: Jeroen on September 05, 2019, 08:35:35 PM
What is great as well, is that he is training with us. This means that on the 1st of January he can start and is already used to be playing with the rest of the team. No settling in period etc!
Well done!!
Exactly. I was going to make a point recently regarding our play that many defenders will not have played a possession game to the extent that we do. I believe many on here would be crying out for a player like Alfie Mawson if he was playing for another championship team, who played a more traditional game. I think he would look very special. At the moment, he's is still finding his feet. In time, when he gets to grips with our game, I believe he will be a great defender. He can look shaky at times.
Any defender that joins will take some time unless they have been playing for a team that builds from the back.
The fact that Hector is training with us will really help.
footnote
I'm sure I could have used far less words to say that...but its done now
Quote from: Statto on September 05, 2019, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: Roberty on September 05, 2019, 05:04:23 PM
Since he was going to be out of contract at the end of this season, I presume we got a hefty discount on the price we were thinking to pay in August.
Maybe TK has learnt some lessons about the art of brinkmanship from Danial Levy
What, because 4 weeks ago his contract still had sooooo much longer left to run than it does now?
Do the maths.
The transfer window closed on 08 August, so we are signing him on 01 January which means he will have 5 months left on his contract.
Chelsea would be loosing him for nothing if he wasn't sold before the end of the season because he's 27 and there would be no development fee due to them.
So what is a player who refused to sign a new contract and only has 5 months left on his current one worth to them?
It's certainly only a fraction of what he was worth on 08 August at 4:59pm
I know that TK has his limitations but I think he could probably work that one out and not fall for the seductive charm of Marina Granovskaia when he was negotiating the fee
Is there anything you don't understand about that or think I've overlooked ?
So all we need to add is Achilles as the other CB & let them not fight each other but fight together for FFC
COYW!!
Quote from: Fernhurst on September 05, 2019, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on September 05, 2019, 06:01:34 PM
Quote from: Fernhurst on September 05, 2019, 05:08:07 PM
Well, let's all hope he is as good as we think he is.
Appears to be another good signing, well done to all involved.
How tall is he??
He's 6"3 I believe so would be the tallest CB we have
Thank you .... now if we can just get someone to take a corner we may get a couple of goals this season.
Or actually defend against them (even though teams scoring from corners is a rarity).
It's ridiculous how short Fulham's squad is.
Wow that was a long medical, nearly a month
The encouraging matter in all this is, the club is showing signs of realising something the average bloke in the pub has known for years that our central defence needs reinforcements, and at almost 6ft 4ins, Hector fits the Jigsaw. We are so short of 6ft plus players it's no wonder our ability to defend set pieces is vulnerable, and our ability to dominate in the air is very limited. This is at least a step in the right direction, be it a rather late one.
Has anybody seen him play
Could be a good signing, no doubt we need a tall defender and with a mother from Fulham we can say he is one of our own
Also pleased that we have stopped leaving signings until late in the window but fear that a signing taking place 4 months before the window opens we have gone to the other extreme. Come January he will be suffering from lack of competitive football for sure.
Quote from: AnotherVicHalomLoveChild on September 05, 2019, 09:26:42 PM
So all we need to add is Achilles as the other CB & let them not fight each other but fight together for FFC
COYW!!
:005:
Quote from: Tabby on September 05, 2019, 06:56:10 PM
Quote from: Statto on September 05, 2019, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: Roberty on September 05, 2019, 05:04:23 PM
Since he was going to be out of contract at the end of this season, I presume we got a hefty discount on the price we were thinking to pay in August.
Maybe TK has learnt some lessons about the art of brinkmanship from Danial Levy
What, because 4 weeks ago his contract still had sooooo much longer left to run than it does now?
He isn't signed until January.
We've agreed the terms, signed on the dotted line, paid Chelsea the money and assumed the risk of injury etc, so I'd say he's "signed" now. And even if he isn't perceived to be "signed" until January 1, the way any sensible person would look at it would be that on 8 August Chelsea had 32 transfer window days to sell him and on 1 January they will have 31. FWIW I wouldn't be surprised if the fee is indeed reduced, I just don't think it will be down to there being 4 weeks, or 1 transfer window day, less on his contract. It will be down to the fact that since he can't play until January, we're only getting half the player we would have got in August.
We've signed him for £8m according to the Express:
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1174425/Chelsea-Fulham-Michael-Hector-Transfer-News
Ironically, the first game he is eligible for is our home match against Reading
Quote from: Statto on September 05, 2019, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: Tabby on September 05, 2019, 06:56:10 PM
Quote from: Statto on September 05, 2019, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: Roberty on September 05, 2019, 05:04:23 PM
Since he was going to be out of contract at the end of this season, I presume we got a hefty discount on the price we were thinking to pay in August.
Maybe TK has learnt some lessons about the art of brinkmanship from Danial Levy
What, because 4 weeks ago his contract still had sooooo much longer left to run than it does now?
He isn't signed until January.
We've agreed the terms, signed on the dotted line, paid Chelsea the money and assumed the risk of injury etc, so I'd say he's "signed" now. And even if he isn't perceived to be "signed" until January 1, the way any sensible person would look at it would be that on 8 August Chelsea had 32 transfer window days to sell him and on 1 January they will have 31. FWIW I wouldn't be surprised if the fee is indeed reduced, I just don't think it will be down to there being 4 weeks, or 1 transfer window day, less on his contract. It will be down to the fact that since he can't play until January, we're only getting half the player we would have got in August.
This delay could be an "accidental master stroke" as Fulham have saved half a season of wages in the first half season, which can now be used to pay for two players in the second half of the season (including Hector).
Thiis delay allows us to a) trial players in the first half of season including Mawson as a RCB, b) intégrate Héctor into the team while not amoritizing the transfer fee, c) finish the season well with an extra player including during the playoffs and d) maybe have an extra player (in adddition to Hector) bedded down for next season.
Of course alternatively, if Mawson and Ream both get injuried, then delay will end our automatic promotion chances, but even then still increases our playoff chances if we make the playoffs.
Quote from: Statto on September 05, 2019, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: Tabby on September 05, 2019, 06:56:10 PM
Quote from: Statto on September 05, 2019, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: Roberty on September 05, 2019, 05:04:23 PM
Since he was going to be out of contract at the end of this season, I presume we got a hefty discount on the price we were thinking to pay in August.
Maybe TK has learnt some lessons about the art of brinkmanship from Danial Levy
What, because 4 weeks ago his contract still had sooooo much longer left to run than it does now?
He isn't signed until January.
We've agreed the terms, signed on the dotted line, paid Chelsea the money and assumed the risk of injury etc, so I'd say he's "signed" now. And even if he isn't perceived to be "signed" until January 1, the way any sensible person would look at it would be that on 8 August Chelsea had 32 transfer window days to sell him and on 1 January they will have 31. FWIW I wouldn't be surprised if the fee is indeed reduced, I just don't think it will be down to there being 4 weeks, or 1 transfer window day, less on his contract. It will be down to the fact that since he can't play until January, we're only getting half the player we would have got in August.
My God - I never thought I would be so glad that TK is doing our transfers.
The report says "
will be joining in January" - so at the most there is a pre-contract - we may have a contingent liability but in business you pay after the good have been delivered - TK would know that from his Dad
What's perceived about his being signed in January - the transfer window is closed - he's contracted to Chelsea - so he can't be our player until January and presumably since he belongs to the Chelsea they are paying his salary and not us. He might be training with us - which makes sense since the Scum have no use for him and it saves them the cost of his kit, training costs and presumably the insurance clubs take out on players.
If you work it out - Chelsea having only having 31 instead of 32 days to sell him and his not being able to complete the transfer until January amounts to the same thing - on day 32 he could have played from 09 August but after day 32 he can't play for us until January. But in any event I'm glad you think he might be worth less than he was when his transfer fell through in the summer.
FWIW - As to the fee - I suspect there is a clue in the fact that he's only signing for two and a half years (with an option on our side) - if he was signing for really BIG money it's now normal practice to get players to sign longer contracts to make it harder for them to escape for free and allow for the fee to be amortised over the longer period
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 06, 2019, 01:53:48 AM
This delay could be an "accidental master stroke" as Fulham have saved half a season of wages in the first half season, which can now be used to pay for two players in the second half of the season (including Hector).
This delay allows us to a) trial players in the first half of season including Mawson as a RCB, b) integrate Héctor into the team while not amoritizing the transfer fee, c) finish the season well with an extra player including during the playoffs and d) maybe have an extra player (in addition to Hector) bedded down for next season.
Of course alternatively, if Mawson and Ream both get injured, then delay will end our automatic promotion chances, but even then still increases our playoff chances if we make the playoffs.
The delay also allowed us to get the full fee for Ryan Sessegnon because Levy did not have the leverage of knowing that we would potentially be breaching FFP rules if we didn't sell RS in the last window.
Quote from: elgreenio on September 05, 2019, 04:13:38 PM
great stuff that, shame we couldn't get it done last month but another positive signing from TK, exactly what we need
+1
I confess. When I read the press reports etc on deadline day & immediately after I put Hector in the 'another one not meant to be' box.
Congratulations TK & FFC in following this one through. Now, shall I have my hat served boiled, grilled or roasted?
Quote from: Roberty on September 06, 2019, 05:31:30 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 06, 2019, 01:53:48 AM
This delay could be an "accidental master stroke" as Fulham have saved half a season of wages in the first half season, which can now be used to pay for two players in the second half of the season (including Hector).
This delay allows us to a) trial players in the first half of season including Mawson as a RCB, b) integrate Héctor into the team while not amoritizing the transfer fee, c) finish the season well with an extra player including during the playoffs and d) maybe have an extra player (in addition to Hector) bedded down for next season.
Of course alternatively, if Mawson and Ream both get injured, then delay will end our automatic promotion chances, but even then still increases our playoff chances if we make the playoffs.
The delay also allowed us to get the full fee for Ryan Sessegnon because Levy did not have the leverage of knowing that we would potentially be breaching FFP rules if we didn't sell RS in the last window.
Al Fayed's trading would have failed FFP every single season, with FFP the new owners have a much harder job and getting good prices for the players sold like Malone, Aluko and Sess is especially important.
How can we sign a player during the season? I know he doesn't officially join until jan but if we can sign people now for that window why not do it all the time so that they can join at the start of a window?
Quote from: Hatch007 on September 05, 2019, 11:43:42 PM
We've signed him for £8m according to the Express:
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1174425/Chelsea-Fulham-Michael-Hector-Transfer-News
I believe that equals the record paid by a Championship club for a defender.
Quote from: Statto on September 06, 2019, 09:19:18 AM
Quote from: Hatch007 on September 05, 2019, 11:43:42 PM
We've signed him for £8m according to the Express:
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1174425/Chelsea-Fulham-Michael-Hector-Transfer-News
I believe that equals the record paid by a Championship club for a defender.
Let us hope we will get our moneys worth, and are repaid ten fold. Which I believe he is capable of.
Quote from: Hatch007 on September 05, 2019, 11:43:42 PM
We've signed him for £8m according to the Express:
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1174425/Chelsea-Fulham-Michael-Hector-Transfer-News
Ironically, the first game he is eligible for is our home match against Reading
That sounds very very expensive for a player that will not join us until he has 6 month left on his contract.
Let us hope we will get our moneys worth, and are repaid ten fold. Which I believe he is capable of.
Interesting, hardly an "up and coming" at 27.
I have never seen him play so will reserve judgement.
Noticed the other record 8 million pound central defender (Kalas) was not playing for his new club on their last outing. Is he injured or disappointing?
Quote from: Sting of the North on September 06, 2019, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: Hatch007 on September 05, 2019, 11:43:42 PM
We've signed him for £8m according to the Express:
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1174425/Chelsea-Fulham-Michael-Hector-Transfer-News
Ironically, the first game he is eligible for is our home match against Reading
That sounds very very expensive for a player that will not join us until he has 6 month left on his contract.
It sounds so expensive that I am inclined to disbelieve the figure.
The fee was rumoured to be at £5 million this summer, so it'd be strange if he somehow got more expensive.
Sounds as though this could at last be the man to replace Hangeland, it has been a long wait.
The transfer fee is being reported as £8m, that seems high and it hurts to think we are paying Chelsea that amount for a 27year old that has never made a 1st team appearance for them.
As I work in Reading, I asked a number of their fans about Michael Hector as he was there a number of years after coming through their youth system and then going back on loan after signing for Chelsea. He played for them 80 times in total and the guys I spoke to held him in high regard. Their description of him tells you why Fulham targeted him. Good ball playing centre half who can also play CDM (he's the sort of player ideal if you want to play out from the back was one's comment), very fast for a CB, but who is a little casual and has a mistake in him – and this is why they doubt his ability to play regularly for a top half premiership side. As a championship player they rate him as superb though and would have happily had him back.
Also the transfer fee agreed in the last window was 5 million - Chelsea has asked at the start of the last window for £8m but realised they weren't getting that and he was in the last year of contract - so am guessing it's £5m or even a little less considering he'll be just 6 months from the end of his contract. Don't believe all you read in red tops!!
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on September 05, 2019, 04:12:44 PM
Good one - recruitment department really doing well this summer. Learning from their mistakes potentially
Except the fact they failed to bring him in before the deadline, what if we are too far adrift by January? I think he's a good signing but we desperately needed a CB over the summer, Jan may well be too late.
Apparently he was Wednesday's player of the year, and according to the Wednesday fans who've been posting about him since the transfer deal broke, they're gutted! So all in all it looks like he's gonna be a great signing at this level. So long as we're not more than 7 or 8 points off first come January, I still think we should win the league as we're now, assuming Leeds don't make any great signings, not only the one team in the championship that don't have a first team weakness, but also the most talented, plus we have arguably the strongest bench.
COYW
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on September 06, 2019, 10:49:54 AM
Also the transfer fee agreed in the last window was 5 million - Chelsea has asked at the start of the last window for £8m but realised they weren't getting that and he was in the last year of contract - so am guessing it's £5m or even a little less considering he'll be just 6 months from the end of his contract. Don't believe all you read in red tops!!
If the proposed fee was £5m last month then I agree it's unlikely to have gone up to £8m this month.
Would be interested to know the original source of the £5m figure - if it's just the word among Reading fans then to be honest I don't attach any more credibility to that than the "red tops".
In any case, £8m is a reasonable price IMO. Sessegnon was probably a £40m player and his fee was reduced to £25m because he was in the last year of his contract. Hector, as a top Championship CB in today's market could probably fetch £12m, so knocking that down to £8m because he's also in the last year of his contract would be about the same discount as Spurs got on Sessegnon.
Quote from: Statto on September 06, 2019, 11:30:04 AM
Quote from: Spirit of 2000 on September 06, 2019, 10:49:54 AM
Also the transfer fee agreed in the last window was 5 million - Chelsea has asked at the start of the last window for £8m but realised they weren't getting that and he was in the last year of contract - so am guessing it's £5m or even a little less considering he'll be just 6 months from the end of his contract. Don't believe all you read in red tops!!
If the proposed fee was £5m last month then I agree it's unlikely to have gone up to £8m this month.
Would be interested to know the original source of the £5m figure - if it's just the word among Reading fans then to be honest I don't attach any more credibility to that than the "red tops".
In any case, £8m is a reasonable price IMO. Sessegnon was probably a £40m player and his fee was reduced to £25m because he was in the last year of his contract. Hector, as a top Championship CB in today's market could probably fetch £12m, so knocking that down to £8m because he's also in the last year of his contract would be about the same discount as Spurs got on Sessegnon.
No word amongst Reading fans over the fee - that was just his abilities. I was following this one closely on the last deadline day and reading the Sheff Wed boards - they desperately wanted to sign Hector and the club reportedly offered £3m - Chelsea rejected this and told Wednesday to stump up £5m - but with FFP etc they couldn't find the extra 2 million. Wednesday fans seemed to think Chelsea were taking the p*ss asking for 5 mil for a player with just 1 year left. It was at that stage that we matched the Chelsea asking price. At the beginning of the window they had initially priced him at 8 million but there were no takers - the reduced price was better than them losing him on a free next June.
late but sounds a good signing and better than not at all because he seems to be the man we were after.
This seasons signings are clearly of the right sort rather than what happened last time, so hopefully we are turning the proverbial corner in that respect.
TBH I must have seen him but do not recall him but then unless they are stand out forwards I usually pay more attention to our team.
Can't recall having seen him play but the important thing is has Parker seen him in competitive matches.
Is he rcb or lcb
I wouldn't wish to prejudge Michael Hector the player on any basis until we see him in action for FFC. I am pleased to see that the Club have incorporated into their recruitment tools the facility of settling a deal well in advance of the actual start date in such a way that he can train with the Club now. Whilst the details of the deal may intrigue me I don't expect to learn anything about it any time soon.
The virtue of having almost four months of training with his new club has a lot of hidden benefits that could make it a very shrewd move indeed but I'll be patient and wait until January to see how it all pans out.
Quote from: filham on September 06, 2019, 10:43:10 AM
Sounds as though this could at last be the man to replace Hangeland, it has been a long wait.
The transfer fee is being reported as £8m, that seems high and it hurts to think we are paying Chelsea that amount for a 27year old that has never made a 1st team appearance for them.
He has the potential to be the best CB we have. He put in 30+ games for both Hull, and Sheffield Wednesday (whom he won player of the year for). (https://www.whoscored.com/Players/91840/History/Michael-Hector)
Sheffield Wednesday fans are gutted that he didn't come back even though they have an adequate replacement in the wings.
This is a good signing if he stays healthy. Taller, and faster than Mawson... and he's in the prime of his career. Good CBs can play into their mid 30s.
Not really concerned about the fee at all. All I'm concerned about is how he's going to perform on the pitch.
TK can worry about his fat purse.
They keep saying he cannot play for the First team until January 1st but can he play for PL2/U23? 4 moths of training is all well and good but match fitness would be good to have too.
Dare i say it, a good signing? :wine: cant wait to see him out on the pitch, at least now we have a bit more height in our squad! :62:
He will add much needed Height in both penalty areas, and aggression, and technique, and he has been coached well at his former club, shouldn't have a problem settling in, speaks English and won't have to move house. Knows the culture inside out, good upper body strength that every player needs in the English League, and he will punch his weight. What more do we need from a player.
Quote from: Moltobueno on September 06, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
Is he rcb or lcb
He is right footed, but played a fair number at LCB, a few more at RCB and a number at CCB. My guess is he'll end up at RCB if Mawson is playing.
Re reputation - when Mawson joined us, he enjoyed the reputation of a good premier league centre-half, even though Swansea were relegated that season. His injury certainly held him back last year, but I did not see the quality of the price tag.... but still hope we have yet to see the best of him ... and our defence is definitely looking capable at Championship level, even though we have given away a couple of soft goals.
Re Stearman - Wolves player of the year before we bought him? Hmmmm....
I mention these two just to put things in perspective. Hector certainly seemed to be appreciated at Wednesday, and I hope he is a roaring success with us. Wednesday, however, play a much more conservative style than us, and try to protect their back 4 more than we have often done in the past. So it may have (with the emphasis on "may have") been easier to perform as a centre-half in that set-up. But I like the assessment of him as a ball-playing and speedy centre-half, so my fingers are crossed.
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Agree he should partner Mawson IMO
Personally hope/reckon that by the end of the season we'll see this back five. If Rodak and Sessegnon develop well it could be fantastic young defence for a club at our level
Rodak
Sessegnon - Hector - Mawson - Bryan
Quote from: YoungsBitter on September 07, 2019, 05:13:45 AM
They keep saying he cannot play for the First team until January 1st but can he play for PL2/U23? 4 moths of training is all well and good but match fitness would be good to have too.
Match fitness is going to be a problem, I guess come January 1st he will have to be given gradually increasing game time and that he will be fully match fit come the end of January.
Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 08, 2019, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.
I actually rate Ream more than Mawson, even if Mawson stays healthy.
On paper a combination of Mawson and Hector looks appetising. Nevertheless, during the course of the season, and due to injuries, loss of form and even a suspension, we will need all hands on deck, which includes Ream who is in good form, then there is Sessegnon and Bryan, not forgetting Christie, Odoi, and MLM, perhaps SP at times may even go for three at the back Mawson, Hector and Ream, with wing backs. As a plan B. But Hector is another string to our bow, he can help dominate in the air, which is something we are currently not very good at.
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 08, 2019, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.
I had doubts about Ream this season based on the PL performances but then he looked very good against Blackburn. But since then he's looked poor IMO - certainly below Mawson and maybe even below the standard we need if we're to compete for the top 2.
As for Odoi, IMO he was never at the standard an aspiring top 2 teams needs at CB. Even during the second half of the promotion season he worried me and I suspect only kept his place because no one wants to change a winning team. I consider it both astounding and criminal that he continued to start games at CB in the PL, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the CB spots this season. However, I do think he can make a good full back, and a great utility player with a top professional attitude.
Quote from: Statto on September 08, 2019, 08:17:07 PM
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 08, 2019, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.
I had doubts about Ream this season based on the PL performances but then he looked very good against Blackburn. But since then he's looked poor IMO - certainly below Mawson and maybe even below the standard we need if we're to compete for the top 2.
As for Odoi, IMO he was never at the standard an aspiring top 2 teams needs at CB. Even during the second half of the promotion season he worried me and I suspect only kept his place because no one wants to change a winning team. I consider it both astounding and criminal that he continued to start games at CB in the PL, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the CB spots this season. However, I do think he can make a good full back, and a great utility player with a top professional attitude.
Ream and Odoi are great members of the squad, both will probably spend significant time on the bench, especially in the second half of the season, but in the marathon that is the championship, it is having a third centre back available and a utility defender on the bench that make the difference of those few points that get you automatically promoted.
Quote from: Statto on September 08, 2019, 03:37:02 PM
Agree he should partner Mawson IMO
Personally hope/reckon that by the end of the season we'll see this back five. If Rodak and Sessegnon develop well it could be fantastic young defence for a club at our level
Rodak
Sessegnon - Hector - Mawson - Bryan
I hope beyond hope, that by the end of the season we have brought in a Premier League keeper, Alex McCarthy would be a massive upgrade.
Very pleased with this signing - looks like he can carry the ball out from the back - also quick...
Can we please bare in mind that it is unlikely that he or any other of our defensive line barring perhaps sessegnon and Mawson have the quality necessary to succeed at premiership level.
Quote from: General on September 09, 2019, 12:24:11 PM
Can we please bare in mind that it is unlikely that he or any other of our defensive line barring perhaps sessegnon and Mawson have the quality necessary to succeed at premiership level.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree personally. We'll be upgrading 3 out of 4 positions with better players than we had last time we were in the PL (Mawson > Ream, Hector > Odoi and Sessegnon > Christie). Personally I reckon that's good enough for a newly-promoted team.
In any case, new transfers carry flop risk and will also take time to adapt, so if we were to go up, I wouldn't want to be making more than one change to the back four anyway.
Quote from: Statto on September 08, 2019, 08:17:07 PM
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 08, 2019, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: General on September 08, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
Based on all our other centre backs not being good enough in this league and Hector having experience and pace I expect he'll partner Mawson at CB.
Totally disagree that Ream is not good enough for this league. Both he and Odoi acquitted themselves exceptionally well in the second half of our promotion season, so I suspect this comment is based on defensive performances in the premier league ... and Mawson played there as well, even if only a limited number of matches.
I had doubts about Ream this season based on the PL performances but then he looked very good against Blackburn. But since then he's looked poor IMO - certainly below Mawson and maybe even below the standard we need if we're to compete for the top 2.
As for Odoi, IMO he was never at the standard an aspiring top 2 teams needs at CB. Even during the second half of the promotion season he worried me and I suspect only kept his place because no one wants to change a winning team. I consider it both astounding and criminal that he continued to start games at CB in the PL, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the CB spots this season. However, I do think he can make a good full back, and a great utility player with a top professional attitude.
Well... Statto... you have been watching different games. Simple fact - form of the team with Ream and Odoi in the second half of our promotion season were definitely worthy of a top 2 team. The results clearly demonstrate that. To suggest they were the weak link is spurious at best.
"Criminal" - allowing for hyperbole .. simply nonsense.
I will agree though that Odoi is versatile, a true professional .. and that his best position is right-back. I will go further and say that he is our best right-back.
To suggest Mawson has been playing better than Ream .. you have been at different games.
But it's good that opinions differ as agreeing all the time would be dull.
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 09, 2019, 08:28:17 PM
Simple fact - form of the team with Ream and Odoi in the second half of our promotion season were definitely worthy of a top 2 team. The results clearly demonstrate that. To suggest they were the weak link is spurious at best.
Agree with the rest of your post but the obvious counter-argument to this point would be that the form of the team with Ream in the full season 15/16 was worthy of a team that finished 20th. And 18th the year before with Bolton. And your reasoning would also mean all those players like Martin and Piazon in our team for the second half of the 16/17 season (when our form was also equivalent to a top 2 team) are top 2 standard. So plainly you cannot make conclusive judgments about an individual player's ability based on the position a team with him in it featured one year.
People are talking about match fitness and his lack of it.Does the effect a central defender as much.Match sharpness maybe.
Quote from: Statto on September 09, 2019, 01:15:51 PM
Quote from: General on September 09, 2019, 12:24:11 PM
Can we please bare in mind that it is unlikely that he or any other of our defensive line barring perhaps sessegnon and Mawson have the quality necessary to succeed at premiership level.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree personally. We'll be upgrading 3 out of 4 positions with better players than we had last time we were in the PL (Mawson > Ream, Hector > Odoi and Sessegnon > Christie). Personally I reckon that's good enough for a newly-promoted team.
In any case, new transfers carry flop risk and will also take time to adapt, so if we were to go up, I wouldn't want to be making more than one change to the back four anyway.
Sam Allardyce pointed out that spending £100m on a new starting XI is never going to keep a team up. He believes you need to get promoted with eight starters from the promotion season and then spend £33m each upgrade three positions with quality players totalling £100m.
We have at least four players that could be premier league starters now and at least another four that could prove to be premier league starters soon, plus we may pick up one or two potential starters during the winter transfer window (such as Hector). Making that magically objective of eight starters possible.
Mawson a weak link in our current team.
Weakest passer, over reliant on passing sideways to Ream as an outlet.
Just as shaky as the others from a defensive perspective too.
Bring back Odoi if things don't improve in 2-3 months! But by then, this new bloke will be here won't he.
Like most things in life it isn't the individual brilliance or ability of a single component in comparison to other single components that matters. It is the way the components link with other components that matters. In singing the praises of Odoi he is a consummate team professional who does a very decent job wherever he plays and no matter who his team mates are. Just what that is worth for any team is incalculable. Is Mawson better than Ream? It really only matters via the ease with which we accumulate points and stop conceding goals. You play what works and not what looks superior on paper.
The promotion team of 2018 was just about working as a unit prior to the arrivals of Targett and Mitrovic but was much improved upon by their arrivals. The PL team never really got going since by the first time they showed some bite and resolve (the Anfield Game) Jokanovic was already all but gone. The arrivals had improved nothing no matter how good as individual components they were and that did not essentially change at any point during the whole season. This season we have a similar scenario to the last two seasons developing, whereby slow starts have kept us all guessing as to where it'll eventually lead us. I was hoping for a better resolve from the start but we seem to still have this inability to do so and be so. I have no idea why it takes us so long to get out of the blocks.
Quote from: Statto on September 09, 2019, 09:12:45 PM
Quote from: Whitesideup on September 09, 2019, 08:28:17 PM
Simple fact - form of the team with Ream and Odoi in the second half of our promotion season were definitely worthy of a top 2 team. The results clearly demonstrate that. To suggest they were the weak link is spurious at best.
Agree with the rest of your post but the obvious counter-argument to this point would be that the form of the team with Ream in the full season 15/16 was worthy of a team that finished 20th. And 18th the year before with Bolton. And your reasoning would also mean all those players like Martin and Piazon in our team for the second half of the 16/17 season (when our form was also equivalent to a top 2 team) are top 2 standard. So plainly you cannot make conclusive judgments about an individual player's ability based on the position a team with him in it featured one year.
Thank you Statto. Good to see a reasoned argument. Bolton were poor, but Ream was rated as possibly their best player. A decent centre-half does not save a team from failure. Piazon was not even a regular starter ...and Martin on his day was a good championship centre -forward, but maybe not the most committed. So I don't see how my point is invalidated by your argument. The spine of the team, centre-halves and central midfield, and a decent centre forward, are amongst the most key roles, so I would argue that without a strong spine, a team is unlikely to succeed. Ream and Odoi were strong. Well, happy to accept you do not share the view, but it is a logical and fair one. And one also based on observation at the games at the time.
PS And I would go as far as to say that I think Ream has been one of our most consistent, best-performing players so far this season, albeit relatively few games.
This fellow seems plenty good enough for the Premier League. Whether or not depends on three factors:
Fulham actually getting there (obviously)
Him keeping fit and working hard at his game; and
How we set up in the PL. At that level if we aim to play a narrow four, relatively unadventurous midfield and keep things tight, (I.e Royball 2.0) I'd expect him to look terrific as an aerially dominant CB dealing with crosses from wingers or fullbacks shown the outside. If we go down the score-one-more-than-you route, he'll probably be as harum scarum as his immediate predecessors.
Ream can just about pull off CB in the Championship. He's welcome as a squad player and flies our owner's flag with humility and dignity. But we all know that at PL level he gets monstered all season long. To show ambition, we need Hector and I look forward to seeing him play.
Quote from: Milo on September 10, 2019, 07:13:38 AM
Mawson a weak link in our current team.
Weakest passer, over reliant on passing sideways to Ream as an outlet.
I think his passing has got better. In the Cardiff game his passing was decent and he hit two or three very good long balls as well as carrying the ball forward a little more. He's getting better all the time I think- that bombardment we had with 10 in the last 15 mins we'd have conceded from a few years ago...
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 10, 2019, 06:59:21 AM
Quote from: Statto on September 09, 2019, 01:15:51 PM
Quote from: General on September 09, 2019, 12:24:11 PM
Can we please bare in mind that it is unlikely that he or any other of our defensive line barring perhaps sessegnon and Mawson have the quality necessary to succeed at premiership level.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree personally. We'll be upgrading 3 out of 4 positions with better players than we had last time we were in the PL (Mawson > Ream, Hector > Odoi and Sessegnon > Christie). Personally I reckon that's good enough for a newly-promoted team.
In any case, new transfers carry flop risk and will also take time to adapt, so if we were to go up, I wouldn't want to be making more than one change to the back four anyway.
Sam Allardyce pointed out that spending £100m on a new starting XI is never going to keep a team up. He believes you need to get promoted with eight starters from the promotion season and then spend £33m each upgrade three positions with quality players totalling £100m.
We have at least four players that could be premier league starters now and at least another four that could prove to be premier league starters soon, plus we may pick up one or two potential starters during the winter transfer window (such as Hector). Making that magically objective of eight starters possible.
You seemingly mistake Big Sam's words for gospel, which it is not in my opinion. What you should take from that (again in my opinion) are two things:
1. It is better to change as little as possible in order to keep what obviously worked well and to decrease the risk of the team not functioning as a team rather than a bunch of individuals.
2. Players of already proven or reasonably expected high chance of being PL quality are very expensive nowadays. This means that spending 100 million is in no way a guarantee for even moderate success at PL level (as we are painfully aware).
Both of the above points should be well known to anyone that have paid attention the last few years (although the numbers keep going up all the time).
Lastly, 8 is no magic number at all, but better than 7 and worse than 9. Just as it has always been and will always be (all other factors alike).I agree though that if we would have 8 players capable of starting most games and doing it well in the PL that would be a very good start.
Whether these players are PL standard or not is irrelevant. First priority is to get there, then we can always move them on.
Quote from: Sting of the North on September 10, 2019, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 10, 2019, 06:59:21 AM
Quote from: Statto on September 09, 2019, 01:15:51 PM
Quote from: General on September 09, 2019, 12:24:11 PM
Can we please bare in mind that it is unlikely that he or any other of our defensive line barring perhaps sessegnon and Mawson have the quality necessary to succeed at premiership level.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree personally. We'll be upgrading 3 out of 4 positions with better players than we had last time we were in the PL (Mawson > Ream, Hector > Odoi and Sessegnon > Christie). Personally I reckon that's good enough for a newly-promoted team.
In any case, new transfers carry flop risk and will also take time to adapt, so if we were to go up, I wouldn't want to be making more than one change to the back four anyway.
Sam Allardyce pointed out that spending £100m on a new starting XI is never going to keep a team up. He believes you need to get promoted with eight starters from the promotion season and then spend £33m each upgrade three positions with quality players totalling £100m.
We have at least four players that could be premier league starters now and at least another four that could prove to be premier league starters soon, plus we may pick up one or two potential starters during the winter transfer window (such as Hector). Making that magically objective of eight starters possible.
You seemingly mistake Big Sam's words for gospel, which it is not in my opinion. What you should take from that (again in my opinion) are two things:
1. It is better to change as little as possible in order to keep what obviously worked well and to decrease the risk of the team not functioning as a team rather than a bunch of individuals.
2. Players of already proven or reasonably expected high chance of being PL quality are very expensive nowadays. This means that spending 100 million is in no way a guarantee for even moderate success at PL level (as we are painfully aware).
Both of the above points should be well known to anyone that have paid attention the last few years (although the numbers keep going up all the time).
Lastly, 8 is no magic number at all, but better than 7 and worse than 9. Just as it has always been and will always be (all other factors alike).I agree though that if we would have 8 players capable of starting most games and doing it well in the PL that would be a very good start.
Big Sam's opinion is not Gospel for me, unless he tells me what i already believe as i do in this case. Most other pundits are just mouth pieces of their employers, trying to promote the lie that Fulham outspent other teams that stayed up.
The media hates the truth that the three cheapest squads went down, with Fulham as equal third cheapest squads with a few other teams. No cheaper squad than Fulham stayed up. I guess they are scared people won't watch if it's all about money.
The truth is the Fulham squad cost about the same as Brighton, Burnley and Watford, all had made some good/bad purchases but their squads more settled, cohesive and tactically adjusted for premier league.
While eight is not a magic number for number of starters from promotion team, it is close and the number we should aim for. If we go up with eight players, then we only need three acquisitions to really fire.
Going up with six or seven PL players means we will struggle, but probably stay up just. Going up with four or five players means we will probably should be battling out til the end of season, but likely go down. Going up with only two or three premier league players means it will be very hard unless existing teams fall apart. Last year, only Huddersfield fell apart with Fulham never getting together until it was too late.
It does also depend a bit where those players are on the field, going up with a great centre back partnership and excellent defensive midfield is more valuable than a good striker and two decent wingers.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 11, 2019, 02:48:55 AM
[quote Most other pundits are just mouth pieces of their employers, trying to promote the lie that Fulham outspent other teams that stayed up.
The media hates the truth that the three cheapest squads went down, with Fulham as equal third cheapest squads with a few other teams. No cheaper squad than Fulham stayed up. I guess they are scared people won't watch if it's all about money.
I agree with your fundamental point that we need to minimise player turnover, but this point about us spending less than 17 other clubs was disproven IIRC when we looked at spending over a 3 year period. It also overlooks the fact that we finished below 18, not 17, other clubs, and the massive points gap between us and the clubs that stayed up.
