Friends of Fulham

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 04:19:37 AM

Title: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 04:19:37 AM
International duty is finally coming to an end, thank goodness.  With that in mind, and considering that Arter will not be available, what would be your starting lineup? 

Mitro continues to be on fire so obviously he will lead the lineup.  I see no reason for the back four to change so Steven, Mawson, Ream and Bryan will defend with Betts still in goals.  Tom will retain his spot and I would assume Knockaert and Cavaleiro will also.  So that leaves just two players in the midfield to finish out the starting XI. 

I would be tempted to start Stef as he seems to have had a successful week during his national call up.  He should be running high with scoring a goal against Sweden.  That leaves only one more slot to fill.  Personally, I would continue to go with Reed, but I would be curious to hear other's thoughts. 


(https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/gallery/295467_11_09_19_4_18_14.png)

Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: The Rational Fan on September 11, 2019, 05:46:01 AM
Due to international duty, the defense that has been training together the last two weeks for the WBA game would be "Betts, Odoi, Mawson, MLM and Bryan". Hence, "Betts, Odoi and MLM" are most likely better prepared for the WBA game than "Rodak, S.Sess and Ream", so I would pick the former players.

Without Arter available, I think StefJo and Cairney are obvious selections; with the third midfield spot being between KMac and Reed. I'd start with KMac, as I expect our most cohesive combination is KMac, StefJo and Cairney; although as soon as KMac legs get tired and slow (likely between 35mins to 70 mins) he should be subbed off for H.Reed.

Starting XI
Calverio   Mitro   Knockaert
               Cairney
         Johasen   KMac
Bryan  MLM  Mawson  Odoi
              Betts

Bench: Rodak, S.Sess, Ream, H.Reed, Onamah, BC.Reid & Kamara
Resting: Norman, Christie, Edun, Cisse, ORiley, Torres and Kebano with Arter not available
Expected subs: H.Reed for KMac (~55mins), BC.Reid for Johansen (~70 mins) and Kamara for Knockaert (~80 mins).
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Bassey the warrior on September 11, 2019, 07:45:31 AM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 04:19:37 AM
International duty is finally coming to an end, thank goodness.  With that in mind, and considering that Arter will not be available, what would be your starting lineup? 

Mitro continues to be on fire so obviously he will lead the lineup.  I see no reason for the back four to change so Steven, Mawson, Ream and Bryan will defend with Betts still in goals.  Tom will retain his spot and I would assume Knockaert and Cavaleiro will also.  So that leaves just two players in the midfield to finish out the starting XI. 

I would be tempted to start Stef as he seems to have had a successful week during his national call up.  He should be running high with scoring a goal against Sweden.  That leaves only one more slot to fill.  Personally, I would continue to go with Reed, but I would be curious to hear other's thoughts. 


(https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/gallery/295467_11_09_19_4_18_14.png)



I'd go with that but swap Rodak for Betts.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: bog on September 11, 2019, 08:57:37 AM
Odoi in for S Sess? No thanks.

092.gif 
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Jim© on September 11, 2019, 09:08:20 AM
I'd keep Reed in, liked what I saw at Cardiff. I'd also go with Rodak, Bett's hasn't made enough saves for me this season (really poor save to goals conceded ratio).
We're sort of lucky that we've had a good chunk of the players at Motspur this last week or so, dunno how many West Brom have had away on int. duty?
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: filham on September 11, 2019, 09:10:45 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 11, 2019, 05:46:01 AM
Due to international duty, the defense that has been training together the last two weeks for the WBA game would be "Betts, Odoi, Mawson, MLM and Bryan". Hence, "Betts, Odoi and MLM" are most likely better prepared for the WBA game than "Rodak, S.Sess and Ream", so I would pick the former players.

Without Arter available, I think StefJo and Cairney are obvious selections; with the third midfield spot being between KMac and Reed. I'd start with KMac, as I expect our most cohesive combination is KMac, StefJo and Cairney; although as soon as KMac legs get tired and slow (likely between 35mins to 70 mins) he should be subbed off for H.Reed.

Starting XI
Calverio   Mitro   Knockaert
               Cairney
         Johasen   KMac
Bryan  MLM  Mawson  Odoi
              Betts

Bench: Rodak, S.Sess, Ream, H.Reed, Onamah, BC.Reid & Kamara
Resting: Norman, Christie, Edun, Cisse, ORiley, Torres and Kebano with Arter not available
Expected subs: H.Reed for KMac (~55mins), BC.Reid for Johansen (~70 mins) and Kamara for Knockaert (~80 mins).

Yes , fully agree right down to the last sub although if we are trailing at half time it may be prudent to bring Kamara on after 60 minutes.

Also, a lot depends on the condition of the players returning fro international duty.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Statto on September 11, 2019, 09:20:14 AM
I'd also go with the OP's line-up, although any of Rodak, Odoi and/or Mcdonald instead Betts, Sessegnon and/or Reed would be reasonable IMO
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: hovewhite on September 11, 2019, 11:45:26 AM
An embarrassment of back up.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on September 11, 2019, 12:13:23 PM
Rodak

Sess Mawson Ream Bryan

Johansen Reed Cairney

Knockaert Mitro Cavaleiro

Betts, McDonald, Odoi, Onomah, O'Riley, Reid, Kamara
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: twang on September 11, 2019, 12:30:27 PM
Bettinelli
Odoi - Mawson - Ream - Bryan
Cairney - Reed - Johansen
Knockaert - Mitrovic - Cavaleiro

Bench: Rodak, Le Marchand, Sessegnon, McDonald, Onomah, Reid & Kamara
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Ronnief on September 11, 2019, 12:37:16 PM
Tim Ream likely played in the USA team which kicked off 1am our time today. It's likely he won't return to the UK till late Thursday or early Friday morning. Is it possible that he will play for us on Saturday what with Jet lag and the effects of travel after a game?
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Ronnief on September 11, 2019, 12:46:49 PM
An update to above, Ream was Captain to the USA team and played the full 90 minutes. They played in St Louis so he will have a fair trip home!
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Whitestone on September 11, 2019, 01:51:11 PM
MLM and Odoi are not good enough. I'm staggered after all we've seen of them that anyone would want them to start in any circumstance other than when we have no other options.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Bassey the warrior on September 11, 2019, 02:03:41 PM
If Ream isn't fit I'd play Odoi alongside Mawson.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Sting of the North on September 11, 2019, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on September 11, 2019, 01:51:11 PM
MLM and Odoi are not good enough. I'm staggered after all we've seen of them that anyone would want them to start in any circumstance other than when we have no other options.

I think Odoi has always been solid in the Championship. The little we have seen of him this season he's been good, and against Blackburn he was very good. Definitely better than the average Championship fullback in my opinion. Although I am not staggered, I am mildly surprised that people cannot see the value he brings to the team after presumably having watched him play for three seasons.

I have never warmed at all to MLM though, but he has also not had a chance to play much in the Championship. We have basically only seen him in the PL, and to be fair to him most players looked beyond the level required last year even though we know that many of them are very good championship players. Maybe MLM would also turn out good if he was first choice in this league for an extended period. I have a feeling we will never find out though.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Whitestone on September 11, 2019, 02:18:50 PM
I can see the value Odoi brings to the squad. I admire his passion and commitment but that's not enough. He's versatile and decent cover in the Championship. Definitely not a starter for me with the options available now. 
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
It is true that Ream was captain and played the full 90 for the Saint Louis match.  I also think he actually played very well.  If he caught the first plane out, worse case mid morning flight and landed in London late tonight (Wednesday), then I would think he would be fine for a Saturday kickoff. 

MLM worries me to much.  Would rather see Kmac and Mawson or Odoi and Mawson. 
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Whitesideup on September 11, 2019, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on September 11, 2019, 01:51:11 PM
MLM and Odoi are not good enough. I'm staggered after all we've seen of them that anyone would want them to start in any circumstance other than when we have no other options.
Sorry, but certainly cannot agree about Odoi. MLM - not the strongest player, I agree but had his good moments. But although you may be staggered,  I find your view on Odoi totally unbelievable after his performances in our last Championship season.  Yes, he made a few mistakes in the Premier League, but that ran through the whole team, and he can not be faulted for commitment and effort.  Your criticism does not seem to be based on performance, so it feels like a vendetta against a good professional.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: HV71 on September 11, 2019, 06:46:10 PM
Sorry, but certainly cannot agree about Odoi. MLM - not the strongest player, I agree but had his good moments. But although you may be staggered,  I find your view on Odoi totally unbelievable after his performances in our last Championship season.  Yes, he made a few mistakes in the Premier League, but that ran through the whole team, and he can not be faulted for commitment and effort.  Your criticism does not seem to be based on performance, so it feels like a vendetta against a good professional.


+1

Great post
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Southcoastffc on September 11, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Woolly Mammoth on September 11, 2019, 07:07:27 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 04:19:37 AM
International duty is finally coming to an end, thank goodness.  With that in mind, and considering that Arter will not be available, what would be your starting lineup? 

Mitro continues to be on fire so obviously he will lead the lineup.  I see no reason for the back four to change so Steven, Mawson, Ream and Bryan will defend with Betts still in goals.  Tom will retain his spot and I would assume Knockaert and Cavaleiro will also.  So that leaves just two players in the midfield to finish out the starting XI. 

I would be tempted to start Stef as he seems to have had a successful week during his national call up.  He should be running high with scoring a goal against Sweden.  That leaves only one more slot to fill.  Personally, I would continue to go with Reed, but I would be curious to hear other's thoughts. 


(https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/gallery/295467_11_09_19_4_18_14.png)



I agree with your selection. I would have no problem with that team, as good as any team available subject to injury. MLM should not be anywhere near starting, warming the bench, that's ok. As for Odoi, he can be useful as a back or coming on the second half if he has to.
I don't agree with others about the fitness of players coming back from international duty, and to rest them, that is being soft.
It's important to keep as close to the team that won an important point at Cardiff. We have already lost Arter, let's not compound the situation.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 07:38:37 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 11, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on September 11, 2019, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 07:38:37 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 11, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Bassey the warrior on September 11, 2019, 08:12:24 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 11, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?

He did well in the Cup.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Twig on September 11, 2019, 08:52:45 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 11, 2019, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 07:38:37 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 11, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.

Fabri had a stinker last season so not " dropped for far less".  Betts has possibly missed a couple of very difficult saves but otherwise done little wrong. Completely disagree that Rodak deserves to start.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Fernhurst on September 11, 2019, 10:28:51 PM
Would definitely countinue with Betts until we can find a tall- strong -ball playing -international keeper that no centre forward would mess with.......... shouldn't be too difficult.
Oh,,, and they desperately wish to play for Fulham.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on September 11, 2019, 11:11:49 PM
Quote from: Twig on September 11, 2019, 08:52:45 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 11, 2019, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 07:38:37 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 11, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.

Fabri had a stinker last season so not " dropped for far less".  Betts has possibly missed a couple of very difficult saves but otherwise done little wrong. Completely disagree that Rodak deserves to start.

Fabri's "stinker" is far from Bettinelli's "taking an age to distribute the ball, and actually let more goals in than saves"
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: The Rational Fan on September 12, 2019, 12:02:23 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 11, 2019, 11:11:49 PM
Quote from: Twig on September 11, 2019, 08:52:45 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 11, 2019, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 07:38:37 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 11, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.

Fabri had a stinker last season so not " dropped for far less".  Betts has possibly missed a couple of very difficult saves but otherwise done little wrong. Completely disagree that Rodak deserves to start.

Fabri's "stinker" is far from Bettinelli's "taking an age to distribute the ball, and actually let more goals in than saves"

Interestingly "FIFA 20" ratings came out yesterday, our goalkeepers were rated as the 2nd, 11th and 18th Best Goalkeepers in the Championship.

Fabri's rating fell enormously since last season, but is still now high enough to equal Knockaert rating and his rating is only just below Cairney (whose rating is also relying on 16/17 and 17/18 performances like Fabri, Knockaert and BC.Reid).

The reason Fabri rating is so high (ie rated 2nd best goal keeper in championship) is Beşiktaş fans rate him as equally good or better than Ryan Babel. Fabri was a great goalkeeper at Beşiktaş, let's see how the 6ft midget goes in Liga A.

People keep talking about Fabri's stinkers, but player of the year "Calum Chambers" wasn't much better those two games and was given another chance.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Arthur on September 12, 2019, 02:57:28 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 12, 2019, 12:02:23 AM
People keep talking about Fabri's stinkers, but player of the year "Calum Chambers" wasn't much better those two games and was given another chance.

I don't see that you can make a meaningful comparison between Fabri and an outfield player. Chambers began at centre half and then made his mark playing in another position - not an option for a goalkeeper.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: love4ffc on September 12, 2019, 03:17:04 AM
Have to say, really surprised by the amount of stink thrown at Betts. 

Lots of people here have been calling for a player to come along that they could support and call one of their own.  A player who came through the academy, helped to get Fulham promoted and bleeds black and white through and through year in and year out. 

SO many other players have come through the academy only to leave once the first big pay day is thrown their way or to look elsewhere once they have been dropped and find themselves riding the pine. 

Can't understand why people won't get behind the lad and just support him.  He is more then good enough for this league. 
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: The Rational Fan on September 12, 2019, 04:58:16 AM
Many people suggested lineup is same as last game with Johansen in for Arter and maybe Rodak in for Betts, but this lineup would mean Parkers training sessions for the last two weeks were fairly pointless. As the team training vs playing wouldn't be similar in any two adjacent positions.

Away = "Player not at Motsphur Park the last two weeks due to International Duty"

Calverio   Away    Knockaert
              Cairney   
                Away
                Reed
Bryan  Away   Mawson Away
                 Away

I suspect Parker would have spent most of the last two weeks improving the defence teamwork for the WBA match and beyond; but given he only has Betts, Odoi, Mawson, MLM and Bryan; the effort will be wasted unless at least two players next to each other on the field both play (ie at least play one of MLM or Odoi if possible).
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on September 12, 2019, 08:21:32 AM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 12, 2019, 03:17:04 AM
Have to say, really surprised by the amount of stink thrown at Betts. 

Lots of people here have been calling for a player to come along that they could support and call one of their own.  A player who came through the academy, helped to get Fulham promoted and bleeds black and white through and through year in and year out. 

SO many other players have come through the academy only to leave once the first big pay day is thrown their way or to look elsewhere once they have been dropped and find themselves riding the pine. 

Can't understand why people won't get behind the lad and just support him.  He is more then good enough for this league. 


There is a reason he hasn't got his big payday. Because hes a completely average goalkeeper.

And Rodak is also a keeper who has worked hard, played throughout the leagues in the last 3 years, amasing vastly more games then Bettinelli.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Woolly Mammoth on September 12, 2019, 08:31:46 AM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 12, 2019, 03:17:04 AM
Have to say, really surprised by the amount of stink thrown at Betts. 

Lots of people here have been calling for a player to come along that they could support and call one of their own.  A player who came through the academy, helped to get Fulham promoted and bleeds black and white through and through year in and year out. 

SO many other players have come through the academy only to leave once the first big pay day is thrown their way or to look elsewhere once they have been dropped and find themselves riding the pine. 

Can't understand why people won't get behind the lad and just support him.  He is more then good enough for this league. 


I agree, I am also surprised, and disappointed. But it's just a noisy minority, who can be fickle and quick to criticise a player that has been loyal, as opposed to other players who at the first sign of a roll of readies being flashed in front of them jump ship without a second thought.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on September 12, 2019, 08:34:39 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 12, 2019, 08:31:46 AM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 12, 2019, 03:17:04 AM
Have to say, really surprised by the amount of stink thrown at Betts. 

Lots of people here have been calling for a player to come along that they could support and call one of their own.  A player who came through the academy, helped to get Fulham promoted and bleeds black and white through and through year in and year out. 

SO many other players have come through the academy only to leave once the first big pay day is thrown their way or to look elsewhere once they have been dropped and find themselves riding the pine. 

Can't understand why people won't get behind the lad and just support him.  He is more then good enough for this league. 


I agree, I am also surprised, and disappointed. But it's just a noisy minority, who can be fickle and quick to criticise a player that has been loyal, as opposed to other players who at the first sign of a roll of readies being flashed in front of them jump ship without a second thought.

He has had 1 high profile link throughout his career, and that was to be Chelsea's 3rd choice.

He has remained loyal, because no one seemingly wants to buy him. Rodak has worked far harder over the last few years, and has put in a performance this season which far exceeds anything from Bettinelli.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Statto on September 12, 2019, 09:05:52 AM
The thing is, surely even Bettinelli's strongest supporters on here would concede he's not one of those best-in-the-division players like Cairney or Mitrovic. He's in that bracket with McDonald, Ream and Odoi who are valuable members of the squad but susceptible to rotation. So Betts can't/shouldn't expect to play every game.

The way I'd describe his performances this season is that most of the goals he's conceded would have been saved by a solid PL keeper. At this level, no you don't expect him to save all of them but a good, on-form championship keeper would surely have saved a couple.

Also it's not like we're going to replace him with some Andre Schurrle type. As FNF says, Rodak is another academy player who's been waiting a long time for a break and thoroughly deserves it by all accounts.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: toshes mate on September 12, 2019, 09:43:58 AM
I am sure Bettinelli was disappointed with himself not to have saved a couple of shots in the goals against column this season.  That is the nature of anyone who has played in goal in a competitive match - you always believe you could have done better with the shots you got close to but not close enough or those shots where you were in two minds and either didn't immediately go with your intuition, or you went too soon.  The problem with the conceding goalkeeper is that you don't get a second chance.  For those reasons I dislike the vilification of Bettinelli on here intensely, especially when the authors are those who are so sensitive when it comes to criticism of their own particular heroes when it comes to mistakes.  Give the guy a break or two, please, because he isn't pretending to be the world's best, he is simply trying to be the best he can be.  Goals are mostly down to a series or collection of individual mistakes and that is why, as supporters we love to see goals that are creatively unstoppable because they are the mark of genius and not human error.   Who is our best goalkeeper at the moment and who, out of the candidates, is complaining that he isn't being given a chance?  I am sure that is where the coaches come into play and I am happy to let them decide.     
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Jim© on September 12, 2019, 10:11:46 AM
Let me just add some stats to this.
Fulham are 6th currently in the table. When table is sorted in order of "shots on target save %" we have just two teams below us- QPR and Stoke, with a % of 54%. That's poor, really poor. The top 3 in the table are all in the top six of that stat, so we're relying on other things to make up for that deficiency. We have for instance conceded the least shots on target of any team in the championship (11- same as Leeds) and had the most shots on target (31 same as Leeds).
Looking at Rodaks performance for Rotherham last season in comparison, he saved 64% of shots on target.

Interestingly at the other end of the pitch we're middling for goals per shot on target with just 32% (same as Leeds). Top are over performing Charlton and what I'd consider lucky Forest.

Is Betts a good bloke? Probably. Is he loyal? It would seem so, but neither will help us get promoted I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Sting of the North on September 12, 2019, 10:35:32 AM
Quote from: Jim© on September 12, 2019, 10:11:46 AM
Let me just add some stats to this.
Fulham are 6th currently in the table. When table is sorted in order of "shots on target save %" we have just two teams below us- QPR and Stoke, with a % of 54%. That's poor, really poor. The top 3 in the table are all in the top six of that stat, so we're relying on other things to make up for that deficiency. We have for instance conceded the least shots on target of any team in the championship (11- same as Leeds) and had the most shots on target (31 same as Leeds).
Looking at Rodaks performance for Rotherham last season in comparison, he saved 64% of shots on target.

Interestingly at the other end of the pitch we're middling for goals per shot on target with just 32% (same as Leeds). Top are over performing Charlton and what I'd consider lucky Forest.

Is Betts a good bloke? Probably. Is he loyal? It would seem so, but neither will help us get promoted I'm afraid.

Stats that is goals allowed from a sample size of 11 shots are in my opinion very close to useless (I mean, save % for goalkeepers in football is quite the uninteresting stat to begin with, given the relatively low amounts of shots and goals and given that good goalkeeping is about so much more than that).

Far too small sample size to in any way account for coincidences, flukes, bad luck or just a bad day at the office.

It is however encouraging that we allow the least shots and have the most shots. Over six games that at least says something. Doesn't show the quality of the chances though.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Bassey the warrior on September 12, 2019, 11:20:31 AM
Quote from: Twig on September 11, 2019, 08:52:45 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on September 11, 2019, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 07:38:37 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 11, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.

Fabri had a stinker last season so not " dropped for far less".  Betts has possibly missed a couple of very difficult saves but otherwise done little wrong. Completely disagree that Rodak deserves to start.

Fabri made a mistake for the second goal against Palace but can't be blamed for the first. He was no worse than the other two keepers and would do better than Betts at this level in my opinion, but he's gone so it's a moot point.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Jim© on September 12, 2019, 11:22:20 AM
I'm not sure it's entirely worthless as it gives at the least an indicator.

When we got promoted, save % of shots on target was not in the top 6, though much healthier than it is now.
I'd say that Barnsley, Forest (2nd) and Cardiff were all saveable, though of course other factors could have prevented them in the first place (though that's not what's being discussed).
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Sting of the North on September 12, 2019, 11:29:50 AM
Quote from: Jim© on September 12, 2019, 11:22:20 AM
I'm not sure it's entirely worthless as it gives at the least an indicator.

When we got promoted, save % of shots on target was not in the top 6, though much healthier than it is now.
I'd say that Barnsley, Forest (2nd) and Cardiff were all saveable, though of course other factors could have prevented them in the first place (though that's not what's being discussed).

I agree that over time it is an indicator yes, but I stand by that it is not a very good one even then because it still suffers from the relatively small sample size as well as the lack of context. If we are discussing whether specific individual goals were saveable that is of course a very different thing.

Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Southcoastffc on September 12, 2019, 11:44:46 AM
Back to the original question in respect of team selection, WBA have Charlie Austin and Kenneth Zohore to choose between - or even play together (and WBA have what seems to me to be a very good squad overall) so perhaps one key question is which CBs are best placed, assuming fitness and international effects, to counter one or both of them.  For me, its Ream and Mawson, tho Mawson always worries me.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: The Rational Fan on September 12, 2019, 02:52:04 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on September 12, 2019, 11:44:46 AM
Back to the original question in respect of team selection, WBA have Charlie Austin and Kenneth Zohore to choose between - or even play together (and WBA have what seems to me to be a very good squad overall) so perhaps one key question is which CBs are best placed, assuming fitness and international effects, to counter one or both of them.  For me, its Ream and Mawson, tho Mawson always worries me.

WBA attack will really test us, maybe the game calls to start with three centre backs Ream/MLM, Mawson, Odoi.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Jim© on September 12, 2019, 02:56:23 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 12, 2019, 02:52:04 PM

WBA attack will really test us, maybe the game calls to start with three centre backs Ream/MLM, Mawson, Odoi.

I think changing the shape of the team when we're beginning to look proficient defensively would be the wrong thing to do. If anything,  3 at the back plays into the hands of teams with really good wide players (such as West Brom) as the WBs can often get caught up field (and we've two particularly attack minded ones).
I'd suggest that they're not relishing the thought of facing Mitro, Cav and Knockers.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: hovewhite on September 12, 2019, 04:16:55 PM
Mawson is not up to the mark for me,and think Hector will replace him.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: hovewhite on September 12, 2019, 04:18:32 PM
Sorry, when allowed by the EFL of course!
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: The Rational Fan on September 13, 2019, 08:16:38 AM
Quote from: Jim© on September 12, 2019, 02:56:23 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 12, 2019, 02:52:04 PM

WBA attack will really test us, maybe the game calls to start with three centre backs Ream/MLM, Mawson, Odoi.

I think changing the shape of the team when we're beginning to look proficient defensively would be the wrong thing to do. If anything,  3 at the back plays into the hands of teams with really good wide players (such as West Brom) as the WBs can often get caught up field (and we've two particularly attack minded ones).
I'd suggest that they're not relishing the thought of facing Mitro, Cav and Knockers.

True, we need full backs and not wing backs against WBA; it's a back four or back five. The later is probably too defensive for a home game with the front three we have, but maybe if we get ahead a couple of goals,
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: We Are Premier League on September 13, 2019, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 04:19:37 AM
International duty is finally coming to an end, thank goodness.  With that in mind, and considering that Arter will not be available, what would be your starting lineup? 

Mitro continues to be on fire so obviously he will lead the lineup.  I see no reason for the back four to change so Steven, Mawson, Ream and Bryan will defend with Betts still in goals.  Tom will retain his spot and I would assume Knockaert and Cavaleiro will also.  So that leaves just two players in the midfield to finish out the starting XI. 

I would be tempted to start Stef as he seems to have had a successful week during his national call up.  He should be running high with scoring a goal against Sweden.  That leaves only one more slot to fill.  Personally, I would continue to go with Reed, but I would be curious to hear other's thoughts. 


(https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/gallery/295467_11_09_19_4_18_14.png)
:plus one:
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: JEEVES on September 13, 2019, 09:50:43 PM
Quote from: love4ffc on September 11, 2019, 04:19:37 AM
International duty is finally coming to an end, thank goodness.  With that in mind, and considering that Arter will not be available, what would be your starting lineup? 

Mitro continues to be on fire so obviously he will lead the lineup.  I see no reason for the back four to change so Steven, Mawson, Ream and Bryan will defend with Betts still in goals.  Tom will retain his spot and I would assume Knockaert and Cavaleiro will also.  So that leaves just two players in the midfield to finish out the starting XI. 

I would be tempted to start Stef as he seems to have had a successful week during his national call up.  He should be running high with scoring a goal against Sweden.  That leaves only one more slot to fill.  Personally, I would continue to go with Reed, but I would be curious to hear other's thoughts. 


(https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/gallery/295467_11_09_19_4_18_14.png)



Team is absolutely spot on what I would pick and also the most obvious team and therefore what I would bet my money on.

That is of course assuming everyone is fit and 100% after the internationals.

I would be tempted to start Kmac and potentially sub him once he's lagging but then again Scotty P may have already decided by this point that Harrisom Reed is his next choice DM when Harry Arter is unavailable.

On that topic Harry Arter is not and has never been a proper DM but I my opinion (and I think maybe also SP's opinion) is that you can get away without a proper DM if you play two box to box midfielders (stefjo) who both chase down balls and tackle a lot in midfield and free up TC to play his best position as an attacking/ creative midfielder who can focus on creating chances for our disgusting front three.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Fernhurst on September 13, 2019, 10:02:09 PM
disgusting front three . ????

So glad I'm not, but if I were Scotty may be tempted to pull Steven out for this crucial game.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: MikeCdawg on September 14, 2019, 12:15:37 AM
Also fully agree with OP. I would also pick Johansen, good week in internationals, should be confident in himself and he played for West brom last season so could have more game knowledge.
Personally, because we're at home, I'd go for Onomah or Bobby Reid for 3rd midfield slot. It won't happen, but my first choice would be O'Riley. Although I'd be happy with Harrison or Kmac. Great options to have, can only be good that we have such depth and competition for places.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: The Rational Fan on September 14, 2019, 04:27:29 AM
Quote from: Fernhurst on September 13, 2019, 10:02:09 PM
disgusting front three . ????

So glad I'm not, but if I were Scotty may be tempted to pull Steven out for this crucial game.

I strongly expect him to bench S.Sess, Ream and Reed; we maybe back to the Barnsley lineup, with Knockaert instead of Kamara.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: JoelH5 on September 14, 2019, 05:06:01 AM
After Mitrovic, I think Arter is our most important player. I expect us to really struggle without him.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: Fernhurst on September 14, 2019, 07:15:50 AM
Agreed, it's surprising how important Harry has become over a relatively short period.
It's was absolutely guaranteed Colin and his mob were going to attempt to get him sent off and they succeeded just when we really needed him today.
He is not a young kid, he really should not allowed that to happen.
Him not playing might be the difference between the teams today.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: The Rational Fan on September 14, 2019, 08:08:23 AM
Quote from: Fernhurst on September 14, 2019, 07:15:50 AM
Agreed, it's surprising how important Harry has become over a relatively short period.
It's was absolutely guaranteed Colin and his mob were going to attempt to get him sent off and they succeeded just when we really needed him today.
He is not a young kid, he really should not allowed that to happen.
Him not playing might be the difference between the teams today.

Midfield and Defensive reserves need to be able to do their job, otherwise we have no chance this season. Frankly, losing Anguissa and Seri will hurt when we haven't got either Arter or Cairney.
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: MrFFC on September 14, 2019, 08:45:31 AM
For West Brom

                          Rodak

  Sessegnon    Mawson    Ream    Bryan

                             Reed

                 Johansen    Cairney

Knockeart                                   Cavaleiro

                            Mitrovic

Subs - Bettinelli , Christie , Odoi , McDonald , Onomah , Reid , Kamara
Title: Re: Team lineup for West Brom
Post by: filham on September 14, 2019, 10:21:01 AM
Suspect we may use more than one player today to replace Arter, possibly McDonald for first 60 minutes then maybe Reed used as first sub.