Friends of Fulham

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: fulhamben on October 05, 2019, 02:33:01 PM

Title: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 05, 2019, 02:33:01 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Tabby on October 05, 2019, 02:35:46 PM
I don't think it was the changes to the team as much as that Charlton were set up to counter the way Parker wants to play and did it well.

The change in formation was key to the second half.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: andyk on October 05, 2019, 02:37:15 PM
Yep, one of the lessons of management is that, sometimes, you don;t need to do too much.
That performance in midweek was described as "perfiect" by Scott Parker.  So why make the changes. He's thinking too much about it.
If the team that started the second half had started the match, we would have won comfortably.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Moltobueno on October 05, 2019, 02:43:49 PM
so the op says we shouldnt have made changes yet praises the guy who was brought in (as one of the change compared to midweek)  1500.gif
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: ScalleysDad on October 05, 2019, 02:44:11 PM
Massive learning curve and lessons are clearly being learned. Changed tactics and formation, pressed hard for a winner and came back twice against a team even surprising themselves at the moment. A slightly higher cross bar and a one armed Keeper and we would have won, unfairly mind.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: snarks on October 05, 2019, 02:48:26 PM
People were saying Sess for Denis, he did that. The great thing was the clear change of tactics at half time, realised a back 3 was better and looked better going forward too. It took 2 fantastic saves to deny Bobby Reid
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Logicalman on October 05, 2019, 02:50:28 PM
Sorry, disagree with the Op, Reading are no Charlton by any stretch of the imagination, home and even less away.

Scotty made the changes he needed to, Charlton set themselves up the same as Forest did for the visit to the Cottage, by pushing us and giving us less time on the ball, and it almost worked.

We were unlucky in the second 45 not to seal the three points, any other day and those woodworks would have hit the back of the net.

I'm beginning to trust Scotty's judgement more and more as each game passes, though everyone is welcome to have, and express, their honest opinions.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Slaphead in Qatar on October 05, 2019, 02:50:28 PM
Manager is learning. And today to his credit he switched it half time and we were much better in second half
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Fulham1959 on October 05, 2019, 02:59:58 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Armchair quarterback / coach.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Tabby on October 05, 2019, 03:00:32 PM
Might also add that the performance in the first half is why I'm on the fence about Parker tactically. They managed to take Cairney entirely out of the game and won the battle in the midfield.

The second half changes are to his credit though.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 05, 2019, 03:03:30 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Armchair quarterback / coach.
well that's dumb as I have a season ticket but couldn't make the changed time
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 05, 2019, 03:04:03 PM
so the op says we shouldnt have made changes yet praises the guy who was brought in (as one of the change compared to midweek)  1500.gif
try reading it, I said he had a good second half, not first half
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Woolly Mammoth on October 05, 2019, 03:09:20 PM
A tale of two halves, but very entertaining and worth the admission fee. Could have and should have won it in the end. However, Charlton came out the blocks at a rate of knots, as they generally do.
Nevertheless, our 2nd half performance was so much better, and the half time changes made a massive difference and improvement.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: ..FOF.. on October 05, 2019, 03:23:46 PM
Disappointed just for a few minutes after the game but looking at it with the bigger picture, I am very happy that the performance is still on track for something special in the future.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Statto on October 05, 2019, 03:28:46 PM
I agree, that's twice in a row now that he's made 3 changes after a win. Bit odd IMO
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Lighthouse on October 05, 2019, 03:34:55 PM
Tinker man got it right in the second half is my understanding of what happened. Overall we can always find players and coaches mistakes but on the whole we are doing alright. The fact that we are not hitting the highs but still amongst the all be it large pack at the top. Is ok.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Whitestone on October 05, 2019, 03:47:40 PM
I have no problem with squad rotation, particularly with the players available. But we do have an obvious weakness at right back. Not sure that SP has worked out who is best. Think we should strengthen in January if possible.
Decent game overall. Disappointing first half from us. More than made up for it in the second. Thought Charlton were  lucky to get a draw in the end. Their keeper kept them in it.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Bill2 on October 05, 2019, 03:47:42 PM
Might also add that the performance in the first half is why I'm on the fence about Parker tactically. They managed to take Cairney entirely out of the game and won the battle in the midfield.

The second half changes are to his credit though.
Charlton told Darren Pratley to follow Cairney everywhere and disrupt his work. In the second half he couldn't maintain it allowing Tom to play his normal game
 Class showed on the second half.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Fernhurst on October 05, 2019, 03:52:36 PM
Tinker man got it right in the second half is my understanding of what happened. Overall we can always find players and coaches mistakes but on the whole we are doing alright. The fact that we are not hitting the highs but still amongst the all be it large pack at the top. Is ok.

Quite right Beamer, we have a long, long road to travel.
Our manager is brand new, fresh out of the box. Think he is doing more than ok and learning all the time.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: ALG01 on October 05, 2019, 04:04:24 PM
Usually it is an errorto change a team tgat did so well in the last game and parker got that wrong. Sess was clearly in need of a few games break and bringing him back was just plain wrong.
However half time changes today were top class and did the trick although arter was clearly injured...
PRarker is learning but in theend we were massively unlucky not to win today so six are the games undeafeted...
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: filham on October 05, 2019, 05:06:03 PM
Give credit to Parker for the half time changes , they worked and we were unlucky not to win.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Mince n Tatties on October 05, 2019, 05:18:40 PM
Should have won it second half,just unlucky their goalie made 2 great ones,on another day they would have beaten him.
Credit to Charlton, they aren't a bad side,well drilled and they've beaten Leeds as well.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Matt10 on October 05, 2019, 07:00:59 PM
Yeah, he got the part wrong where we were 11v11 in this match...but...you know...context and all that.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Fulham1959 on October 05, 2019, 07:09:31 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Armchair quarterback / coach.
well that's dumb as I have a season ticket but couldn't make the changed time

A seat in the stand is still an 'armchair' and that was my point - that you're a better tactician than Scott Parker, despite his years in top-class football.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Tabby on October 05, 2019, 07:19:53 PM

A seat in the stand is still an 'armchair' and that was my point - that you're a better tactician than Scott Parker, despite his years in top-class football.

By this logic we shouldn't have fired Magath. He had plenty of experience in top-class football after all, far more than Scott Parker.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: jeremyfulham on October 05, 2019, 07:25:25 PM
I agree, that's twice in a row now that he's made 3 changes after a win. Bit odd IMO
What were the 3 changes ?
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: jeremyfulham on October 05, 2019, 07:28:38 PM
Could it perhaps be that SP and his coaching staff know more about players knocks/fitness than we do ? Have you considered he has good reasons for changes , I for 1 do not think for a momwent he makes changes to a winning team for the sake of it .
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Fulham1959 on October 05, 2019, 07:35:43 PM

A seat in the stand is still an 'armchair' and that was my point - that you're a better tactician than Scott Parker, despite his years in top-class football.

By this logic we shouldn't have fired Magath. He had plenty of experience in top-class football after all, far more than Scott Parker.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he gain only 1 point after 7 games (Championship) ?  We currently have 19 points after 11 games.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Tabby on October 05, 2019, 08:02:33 PM

A seat in the stand is still an 'armchair' and that was my point - that you're a better tactician than Scott Parker, despite his years in top-class football.

By this logic we shouldn't have fired Magath. He had plenty of experience in top-class football after all, far more than Scott Parker.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he gain only 1 point after 7 games (Championship) ?  We currently have 19 points after 11 games.

So does prior experience matter or not? Magath has won several titles, Parker has coached Tottenham u18. Or are you just not allowed to think critically unless you allow it?

Parker has led us to the lofty heights of 7th in the Championship with what most neutral observers consider the best squad so he is untouchable I guess.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: colinwhite on October 05, 2019, 08:18:13 PM
Ben ,ok you dont  like SP , but he is doing an excellent job I would suggest.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: toshes mate on October 05, 2019, 08:33:52 PM
I think the original team selection was not he best Parker could choose.  Reed should have started, IMO, because Cairney plays better with him for one thing and S Sessegnon plays better with him for another.    But after a very flat first half it was pleasing to see a response from the 'new' eleven players for the next forty five. perhaps marred by the couple of goals conceded since both could have been avoided by sharper midfield and defensive nous.  At the other end we were perhaps a little unfortunate not to score on a couple of occasion and the referee certainly did us no favours on the wrestling in the penalty area front - I counted four very obvious penalties that should have been given and yet the referee was only inclined to pull up Mitro for his troubles when he tried fighting back.

Parker is, as I said before the Reading game, on a very steep learning curve, and that may continue for a while yet.  Thought Johansen and Bryan had excellent games.   
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 05, 2019, 08:39:08 PM
Ben ,ok you dont  like SP , but he is doing an excellent job I would suggest.
my criticism in this thread was based on his team selection, not the man. And no, I wouldnt call 7th with the squad we have as an excellent job. We are lucky that no one is really pulling away as we have already dropped points in 6 put of 11 games
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Lighthouse on October 05, 2019, 10:02:55 PM
Ben ,ok you dont  like SP , but he is doing an excellent job I would suggest.
my criticism in this thread was based on his team selection, not the man. And no, I wouldnt call 7th with the squad we have as an excellent job. We are lucky that no one is really pulling away as we have already dropped points in 6 put of 11 games

I know fans will rightly or wrongly feel the need to pick out Parker. But before the first kick of the season was made. I heard many fans complain that our defence was awful, our keeper should be improved and we had an iffy midfield. Suddenly a few fans are now saying we should be walking away with the league with this wonderful squad. That is always going to be the problem. Some fans think we a have a great squad while others believe our owner and his son are awful for allowing such a poor squad to start the season. Funny old game.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 05, 2019, 10:40:42 PM
Ben ,ok you dont  like SP , but he is doing an excellent job I would suggest.
my criticism in this thread was based on his team selection, not the man. And no, I wouldnt call 7th with the squad we have as an excellent job. We are lucky that no one is really pulling away as we have already dropped points in 6 put of 11 games

I know fans will rightly or wrongly feel the need to pick out Parker. But before the first kick of the season was made. I heard many fans complain that our defence was awful, our keeper should be improved and we had an iffy midfield. Suddenly a few fans are now saying we should be walking away with the league with this wonderful squad. That is always going to be the problem. Some fans think we a have a great squad while others believe our owner and his son are awful for allowing such a poor squad to start the season. Funny old game.
who honestly thinks we have a poor squad
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Statto on October 06, 2019, 01:10:38 AM
Ben ,ok you dont  like SP , but he is doing an excellent job I would suggest.
my criticism in this thread was based on his team selection, not the man. And no, I wouldnt call 7th with the squad we have as an excellent job. We are lucky that no one is really pulling away as we have already dropped points in 6 put of 11 games

But realistically even the team that wins the league is going to drop points in 4 if not 5 out of every 11 games. We're 3 pts from where we should be, ie the Barnsley game, that's all
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Statto on October 06, 2019, 01:15:11 AM
I agree, that's twice in a row now that he's made 3 changes after a win. Bit odd IMO
What were the 3 changes ?
After Wigan he brought in Odoi, Arter and Reid for Sessegnon, Reed and Cavaleiro for Reading. Then for today he swapped back Sessegnon and Cavaleiro (OK so 2 this week not 3 but the point stands)
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 06, 2019, 02:17:50 AM
Ben ,ok you dont  like SP , but he is doing an excellent job I would suggest.
my criticism in this thread was based on his team selection, not the man. And no, I wouldnt call 7th with the squad we have as an excellent job. We are lucky that no one is really pulling away as we have already dropped points in 6 put of 11 games

But realistically even the team that wins the league is going to drop points in 4 if not 5 out of every 11 games. We're 3 pts from where we should be, ie the Barnsley game, that's all
westbrom finished 4th last season with a 50% win ratio, haven't bothered to check any other seasons
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: MJG on October 06, 2019, 06:57:54 AM
Ben ,ok you dont  like SP , but he is doing an excellent job I would suggest.
my criticism in this thread was based on his team selection, not the man. And no, I wouldnt call 7th with the squad we have as an excellent job. We are lucky that no one is really pulling away as we have already dropped points in 6 put of 11 games

But realistically even the team that wins the league is going to drop points in 4 if not 5 out of every 11 games. We're 3 pts from where we should be, ie the Barnsley game, that's all
westbrom finished 4th last season with a 50% win ratio, haven't bothered to check any other seasons
(https://i.ibb.co/y65zdDT/Table-3.png)
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 06, 2019, 07:07:15 AM
Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: toshes mate on October 06, 2019, 09:04:22 AM
I agree, that's twice in a row now that he's made 3 changes after a win. Bit odd IMO
What were the 3 changes ?
After Wigan he brought in Odoi, Arter and Reid for Sessegnon, Reed and Cavaleiro for Reading. Then for today he swapped back Sessegnon and Cavaleiro (OK so 2 this week not 3 but the point stands)
I thought Arter was the problem in the first half and I am still unconvinced by him as a player in this side (i.e. I don't doubt his playing ability as distinct from I do doubt the way he has performed).   I would have preferred Reed from the start.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: KingofCheese on October 06, 2019, 09:38:17 AM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: One Martin Thomas on October 06, 2019, 10:19:00 AM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

I agree that changing a winning team is wrong! Bobby should have started
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Statto on October 06, 2019, 10:40:01 AM
Cheers Mike

Yes cheers Mike.

So to clarify for Ben, that says to the nearest whole number, 1st place generally drop points in 4 out of every 11 games and 2nd place in 5 out of every 11 games.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 06, 2019, 12:37:37 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
the fact that he had to make a double sub at just half time proves he go the starting line up wrong does it not
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: jeremyfulham on October 06, 2019, 01:06:24 PM
I agree, that's twice in a row now that he's made 3 changes after a win. Bit odd IMO
What were the 3 changes ?
After Wigan he brought in Odoi, Arter and Reid for Sessegnon, Reed and Cavaleiro for Reading. Then for today he swapped back Sessegnon and Cavaleiro (OK so 2 this week not 3 but the point stands)
Ah you made a mistake....just goes to show we all can , nobody is perfect !!!!
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Sting of the North on October 06, 2019, 01:11:27 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
the fact that he had to make a double sub at just half time proves he go the starting line up wrong does it not

No, it seemingly proves that he wasn't happy with how the team played in the first half, and that making changes at half time worked. Since we will never know how the first half would have looked if he had started another lineup, we will not know if that would have been better.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: WolverineFFC on October 06, 2019, 01:15:27 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
the fact that he had to make a double sub at just half time proves he go the starting line up wrong does it not

2 managers in each game. Sometimes you just need to give credit to the opposing manager. That combined with a few subpar 1st half performances and you are down 1-0 at half. They play 90 minutes though and he made the adjustment, given some better fortune and the team scores 3 or 4 goals in the 2nd half.

That being said, I believe Mitro benefits from the presence of Cordova-Reid and think SP needs to find a way to get the 2 in the side together more.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: KingofCheese on October 06, 2019, 02:25:25 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
the fact that he had to make a double sub at just half time proves he go the starting line up wrong does it not

Well if he was Captain Hindsight he may have made different choices, but if he brought on a different team and lost 6-0 you would have said that he was wrong to make those changes.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 07, 2019, 12:13:13 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
the fact that he had to make a double sub at just half time proves he go the starting line up wrong does it not

Well if he was Captain Hindsight he may have made different choices, but if he brought on a different team and lost 6-0 you would have said that he was wrong to make those changes.
erm that was my point, it was changes to the starting 11 that possibly cost us. Absolutely no one would have questioned the starting line up if it were unchanged from the game before because  they played so well. But changes were made, and we were poor .
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: bog on October 07, 2019, 01:32:29 PM
Manager is learning. And today to his credit he switched it half time and we were much better in second half

 :plus one:
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Matt10 on October 07, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
the fact that he had to make a double sub at just half time proves he go the starting line up wrong does it not

Well if he was Captain Hindsight he may have made different choices, but if he brought on a different team and lost 6-0 you would have said that he was wrong to make those changes.
erm that was my point, it was changes to the starting 11 that possibly cost us. Absolutely no one would have questioned the starting line up if it were unchanged from the game before because  they played so well. But changes were made, and we were poor .

That's heavily skewed though, we played against 10 men in our last match. Everyone played well, sure, but we were in the advantage to do so 20-minutes in.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: fulhamben on October 07, 2019, 04:22:43 PM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
the fact that he had to make a double sub at just half time proves he go the starting line up wrong does it not

Well if he was Captain Hindsight he may have made different choices, but if he brought on a different team and lost 6-0 you would have said that he was wrong to make those changes.
erm that was my point, it was changes to the starting 11 that possibly cost us. Absolutely no one would have questioned the starting line up if it were unchanged from the game before because  they played so well. But changes were made, and we were poor .

That's heavily skewed though, we played against 10 men in our last match. Everyone played well, sure, but we were in the advantage to do so 20-minutes in.
we were playing well before the man got sent off.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Matt10 on October 08, 2019, 04:02:33 AM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
the fact that he had to make a double sub at just half time proves he go the starting line up wrong does it not

Well if he was Captain Hindsight he may have made different choices, but if he brought on a different team and lost 6-0 you would have said that he was wrong to make those changes.
erm that was my point, it was changes to the starting 11 that possibly cost us. Absolutely no one would have questioned the starting line up if it were unchanged from the game before because  they played so well. But changes were made, and we were poor .

That's heavily skewed though, we played against 10 men in our last match. Everyone played well, sure, but we were in the advantage to do so 20-minutes in.
we were playing well before the man got sent off.

Right...your point being? Judging an entire lineup based on the first 20 minutes? Because, that's what you're doing essentially. It's skewed, and it's the reason we won 4-1. I understand the notion to support the previous starting lineup, but using the Reading match as a basis is a bit far fetched.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: toshes mate on October 08, 2019, 07:42:45 AM
You play what is in front of you regardless of how many the opposition are left with by the end of ninety minutes, and sport's psychologists will give you any number of reasons why some teams fail to be impressive against ten men, which, to an extent, is what we did in the second half against a tiring opposition by allowing them space and time to hit a wonder goal.  Situations get skewed in numerous ways disconnected to physically superior numbers as many historic battles demonstrate.  Tactics, leadership and participant nous are all major influences, but psychology is the deepest factorial going through every individual player in different ways.  These are professional athletes and yet we know how narrow and fragile the border between strong/success/good and weak/failure/bad is for most any professional athlete outside of those dusted with the magic of genius.

A good (hu)man manager is on top of that psychological game warfare during training.  That is where egos are broken and strength of character fitted in because it is better value for money.  And, of course, a broken ego will always fight back and so the work of the 'superior mind' is ongoing.  Football is a team sport and getting eleven players to acknowledge each other as equals is a very tough battle which many coaches never truly win.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Skatzoffc on October 08, 2019, 07:54:00 AM
It always makes me laugh the amount of people that don't take into account the opposition team and coach. They seem to think if we lose its that we play badly and don't give any credit to the opposing team playing well.

They are a good, well drilled team. Hence their result against Leeds.

They played well in the first half and SP made the changes he thought required to swing the game our way. He puts out the team he thinks will do the job taking all factors, fitness etc, into account and leaves enough on the bench to change if needed.

No complaints from me. Good job but a tad unlucky not to get the win.

Coyw!
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Sting of the North on October 08, 2019, 08:31:46 AM
Great game, great come back, should have gone on to win, cant help feeling that parker making changes to the team that just won 4 1 in the last game, was one of the reasons we were so poor in the first half. Thought cav was sublime in the second, looks so much better when he doesmt just cut in all the time, and what a goal. Gutted not to have gone top even for just an hour. Oh well on to the next game

Should every game have the same players regardless of the opposition, how good they are and how they are set up? is that the "he has no plan B" style that he and other managers get criticised for?  only the very top top teams can not change, forcing their opponents to change to match them.
the fact that he had to make a double sub at just half time proves he go the starting line up wrong does it not

Well if he was Captain Hindsight he may have made different choices, but if he brought on a different team and lost 6-0 you would have said that he was wrong to make those changes.
erm that was my point, it was changes to the starting 11 that possibly cost us. Absolutely no one would have questioned the starting line up if it were unchanged from the game before because  they played so well. But changes were made, and we were poor .

I am sure a lot of people would have questioned the starting lineup if we had played badly, because that always happens.

You assume that we played badly first half because we made changes, but that is just a guess. That SP changed two players at half time is no proof whatsoever that it was in fact the changes to the starting lineup that made us play badly. Such a conclusion lacks basic logic. The changes is however one of many possible explanations to how we played, but in my opinion it is most likely a combination of factors (of which the changes to the starting lineup may or may not have been an important one) that lead to how we played.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Steven Ageroad on October 08, 2019, 06:04:09 PM
I think the bottom line is Ben that you do not like Parker and never have done, so you are on to him like a ton of bricks when ever he makes a mistake! Give the guy a break.
Title: Re: Tinker man got it wrong
Post by: Fernhurst on October 09, 2019, 10:03:55 AM
Manager is learning. And today to his credit he switched it half time and we were much better in second half

 :plus one:

 :plus one: