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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Denver Fulham on October 05, 2019, 03:48:33 PM

Title: Bettinelli
Post by: Denver Fulham on October 05, 2019, 03:48:33 PM
Hasn't been good enough this season. We don't need much from our keeper given how we control the ball. Just make standard saves and maybe one good one a match, and he's repeatedly below that standard. Too many goals conceded that are either outright mistakes or questionable keeping for me.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: grandad on October 05, 2019, 03:51:46 PM
Can't really blame him for the 2 today.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Fernhurst on October 05, 2019, 04:09:38 PM
Must admit, if I was looking to upgrade at Christmas, keeper is where I would begin.
Marcus has lots of fans on here but if you were taking a helicopter view of our team. A strong international keeper to anchor the back line would be a step up.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Whitestone on October 05, 2019, 04:15:08 PM
He was solid today. Made some good saves but distribution so slow.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: snarks on October 05, 2019, 04:16:22 PM
Harsh and unfair, excellent save from the deflected shot that was going in the corner, and could do nothing about either goal.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: fulhamben on October 05, 2019, 04:19:34 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 05, 2019, 04:16:22 PM
Harsh and unfair, excellent save from the deflected shot that was going in the corner, and could do nothing about either goal.
yep, at first glance I thought it was going down, the slow mo showed just how good of a save it was
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: HV71 on October 05, 2019, 04:22:23 PM
Certainly not at fault today - wrong scapegoat (for those that insist on having one )
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Fernhurst on October 05, 2019, 04:24:47 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 05, 2019, 03:51:46 PM
Can't really blame him for the 2 today.

Thought his positioning was definitely suspect for their second goal Grandad. Too far off his line.
We all have different views though
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Andy S on October 05, 2019, 04:26:10 PM
I not at fault today and not for a few games previous. Please get off the guys back
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: copthornemike on October 05, 2019, 04:39:55 PM
Kept us in the game first half & top draw save in the second to prevent Charlton going 3-2 up so well done Marcus in my opinion.  Strange how people have completely different opinions on his performance
Hats off to Charlton's keeper - great second half. We could have 5 without his top class saves.
Special mention for Jonnie Williams - best player on the pitch in the first half & very surprised when he was subbed off, very little threat going after he left the pitch
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Denver Fulham on October 05, 2019, 04:42:23 PM
Both goals today were saveable by a keeper with good mobility. Our standards need to be higher if you want top-2. Mix in the Cardiff and WBA goals, and I question why Rodak doesn't get a look.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: filham on October 05, 2019, 04:53:21 PM
I felt Betts was without fault today, the keeper is always easy to select as a scapegoat.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Statto on October 05, 2019, 05:03:23 PM
Can't fault him for either of the goals today, but as I overheard someone say on the way out, if you swapped the keepers today we'd have won 4-0
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Ronnief on October 05, 2019, 05:08:53 PM
My criticism of him would be for his slow distribution especially in the first half. A quick ball out from defence would give us a great advantage. He really needs to distribute quickly as do the defence.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: copthornemike on October 05, 2019, 05:13:36 PM
Quote from: Ronnief on October 05, 2019, 05:08:53 PM
My criticism of him would be for his slow distribution especially in the first half. A quick ball out from defence would give us a great advantage. He really needs to distribute quickly as do the defence.
Good constructive point
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on October 05, 2019, 05:14:31 PM
His distribution is painfully slow, and when you play the way we do, that is a problem.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: snarks on October 05, 2019, 05:14:37 PM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on October 05, 2019, 04:42:23 PM
Both goals today were saveable by a keeper with good mobility. Our standards need to be higher if you want top-2. Mix in the Cardiff and WBA goals, and I question why Rodak doesn't get a look.

I don't like saying this, but that's rubbish in fact it's utter rubbish. It's so rubbish it could be taken away by a refuse collector
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: MikeW on October 05, 2019, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 05, 2019, 03:51:46 PM
Can't really blame him for the 2 today.

Well it went through his legs.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: MikeW on October 05, 2019, 05:17:10 PM
First six 'passes' of the day were between Mawson and Bettinelli on the edge of our box.  Hardly inspires confidence.  Never heard of a warm up?
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Denver Fulham on October 05, 2019, 05:20:54 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 05, 2019, 05:14:37 PM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on October 05, 2019, 04:42:23 PM
Both goals today were saveable by a keeper with good mobility. Our standards need to be higher if you want top-2. Mix in the Cardiff and WBA goals, and I question why Rodak doesn't get a look.

I don't like saying this, but that's rubbish in fact it's utter rubbish. It's so rubbish it could be taken away by a refuse collector

The Charlton keeper made a similar save moving across his goal to his right to deny BDR (and also Cairney on the header before Mitro's goal), but sure thing.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Jamie88 on October 05, 2019, 05:22:20 PM
I'm sorry but I think he was at fault for both. First goal should've been saved, he tried to save with his foot and it went straight underneath it. Second goal he came a couple steps out as if to claim the ball only to stop and the header looped over him. If he had better judgement it would've been a routine save
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Mince n Tatties on October 05, 2019, 05:38:11 PM
As an ex keeper I always try and defend them,its a hard bloody job,as your in the limelight all the time.
Betts is an average Championship keeper imo,that's all nothing more.
If their keeper was between our sticks today,think we might have nicked the game 2-1.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Luka on October 05, 2019, 06:00:17 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 05, 2019, 03:51:46 PM
Can't really blame him for the 2 today.
[/quote
Quote from: Fernhurst on October 05, 2019, 04:24:47 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 05, 2019, 03:51:46 PM
Can't really blame him for the 2 today.

Thought his positioning was definitely suspect for their second goal Grandad. Too far off his line.
We all have different views though


Should have got a foot on the first and for the second goal he was in no mans land.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Texas White on October 05, 2019, 06:51:17 PM
He did ok. Defense let him down for both. Goalkeepers is never going to stop everything.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Matt10 on October 05, 2019, 06:54:10 PM
The only question I had was on the 2nd goal because I felt he was off his line a bit too early, but he did have to prepare for crosses as they kept 5 men in our box at that time.

The comments about distribution being slow is laughable to be honest. We build from the back. Please understand that. Emphasis on build. You don't say that you build from the back, then drill a hospital pass to your winger or a hoof ball to your very slow forward to run off of. In a system that is build on playing where you are facing, why on earth would we try to play the ball faster? That's just asking to invite more trouble. We move the ball, by building avenues for passing lanes - which are created because opposing players move out of position gradually. It's not like we are sitting there and waiting for someone to aggressively over-mark. Please think about how you get open to receive a pass, you don't run away from the ball, you run towards it. We mix this up by running  diagonally, or showing to. Since most teams we play against man-mark our goal kicks, distribution has to be measured.

If you put in Rodak next match, he will do just the same as Betts. It's a system in place that Parker has drilled into every player. It's not easy, which is why not every team in the Championship can pull it off. Instead of slagging off our player constantly, I'd rather be proud as hell that we have a system that reaps on the rewards rather than is scared of the risks.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Fulham1959 on October 05, 2019, 07:25:37 PM
No goalkeeper 30 or 40 years ago would have tried to stop that first shot with their feet, especially as it was more or less straight at Bettinelli.  It was going at a fair pace, I agree, but why do goalkeepers try to stop shots with their feet when they are allowed to use their hands ?

Clearly coaching techniques have changed radically, as have the rules for goalkeepers, but I still don't understand why the use of hands isn't coached as being the first best option in trying to stop most kinds of shots.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Matt10 on October 05, 2019, 07:32:18 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on October 05, 2019, 07:25:37 PM
No goalkeeper 30 or 40 years ago would have tried to stop that first shot with their feet, especially as it was more or less straight at Bettinelli.  It was going at a fair pace, I agree, but why do goalkeepers try to stop shots with their feet when they are allowed to use their hands ?

Clearly coaching techniques have changed radically, as have the rules for goalkeepers, but I still don't understand why the use of hands isn't coached as being the first best option in trying to stop most kinds of shots.

That ball was viciously struck low. Are you quicker to get down to the ground or are your feet already there? That is some fine margin. I can't imagine any keeper dropping their entire body weight that fast to be able to get their hands there. I'm a former keeper as well - that would be an incredibly tough save with the hands.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Plodder on October 05, 2019, 08:26:04 PM
The fact is that some people want Bettinelli out, but instead of simply stating that they think Rodak is the better keeper or that we need someone better, they try to justify a subjective opinion by inventing all sorts of imaginary problems with his performance in every match.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Jamie88 on October 05, 2019, 08:36:19 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on October 05, 2019, 07:32:18 PM
Quote from: Fulham1959 on October 05, 2019, 07:25:37 PM
No goalkeeper 30 or 40 years ago would have tried to stop that first shot with their feet, especially as it was more or less straight at Bettinelli.  It was going at a fair pace, I agree, but why do goalkeepers try to stop shots with their feet when they are allowed to use their hands ?

Clearly coaching techniques have changed radically, as have the rules for goalkeepers, but I still don't understand why the use of hands isn't coached as being the first best option in trying to stop most kinds of shots.

That ball was viciously struck low. Are you quicker to get down to the ground or are your feet already there? That is some fine margin. I can't imagine any keeper dropping their entire body weight that fast to be able to get their hands there. I'm a former keeper as well - that would be an incredibly tough save with the hands.

He still missed it though.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: simplyfulham on October 05, 2019, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 05, 2019, 05:03:23 PM
Can't fault him for either of the goals today, but as I overheard someone say on the way out, if you swapped the keepers today we'd have won 4-0

Ludicrously speculative.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on October 06, 2019, 12:32:52 AM
On watching the highlights

1. Shot was straight at him, should've easily saved
2. He was lobbed from a yards out, poor positioning

He needs to be replaced if we are serious about promotion.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: ealex40 on October 06, 2019, 02:16:33 AM
My main concern with Bettinelli, is how much time he takes to release the ball with the tippy tap habit he has been instructed to adopt. I hate to think how we would do if we ever get promoted again. I watch most of the Premier League games and rarely see those goalkeepers  stand with their foot on top of the ball, wondering what to do with it. I reckon the top opposing coaches would have a plan to make our strategy fall apart. May be our plan is to be this slow throughout the game , so the ref won't know the difference near the end of the match, when we are deliberately wasting time to hold on to a lead.   
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: ..FOF.. on October 06, 2019, 06:04:47 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 06, 2019, 12:32:52 AM
On watching the highlights

1. Shot was straight at him, should've easily saved
2. He was lobbed from a yards out, poor positioning

He needs to be replaced if we are serious about promotion.

Not Betts's fault... Not sure what the highlights showed but with the first goal, the ball went to 3 players without any real challenge by Fulham.

I have been calling for Rodak to be given a chance previously but in this game his performance should be enough for Betts to keep his place.

Fulham, defenders or not, should practice closing in on the opponent with more urgency especially in and around our box.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Marinelloguthrie on October 06, 2019, 08:00:50 AM
No problem with his distribution but was caught of his line a bit for the 2nd goal..

As a goalkeeper i would say the save that their keeper made from Bobby's long shot although looking spectacular was an easier save to make than their 1st goal.

To me Betts is a decent championship keeper who has a strong character. Better to be a good confident and mentally strong keeper than an excellent one with a fragile confidence.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Mickeyboro on October 06, 2019, 08:21:21 AM
Try Rodak. If we don't he will be a success at another club like the Cardiff guy. What's to lose?
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Marinelloguthrie on October 06, 2019, 08:32:05 AM
Quote from: Mickeyboro on October 06, 2019, 08:21:21 AM
Try Rodak. If we don't he will be a success at another club like the Cardiff guy. What's to lose?

Football matches......

Would be change for change sake, no need yet..
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: ..FOF.. on October 06, 2019, 08:52:21 AM
First concede: Sess was late to close down the far side, then the cross came into the box and both players weren't marked.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Q8Tk94c664WE56r7xi/giphy.gif)






Second concede: Ball came into the box and Fulham committed 3 players to shut him down but failed and left the guy in the corner with no one marking him.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/JUev9FHG5RkfYOIcsG/giphy.gif)


If Betts's mistake is part of the failure of the whole team then I would agree.... but I don't think he can be singled out this time around.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: The Rational Fan on October 06, 2019, 09:11:54 AM
Quote from: simplyfulham on October 05, 2019, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 05, 2019, 05:03:23 PM
Can't fault him for either of the goals today, but as I overheard someone say on the way out, if you swapped the keepers today we'd have won 4-0

Ludicrously speculative.

I don't know if their goalkeeper would have saved either of our goals, but really doubt Betts would have saved that BC.Reid strike that their goalie saved. Their goalie had a better game than Betts
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: grandad on October 06, 2019, 09:13:17 AM
For the 1st goal he didn't have a full view as a defender made a lunge to block the shot & partially obscured his view.
For the 2nd there were 3 Charlton players in front of him which he had to cover. Whether they were  interfering with play or not they did distract MB to some degree.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: grandad on October 06, 2019, 09:14:36 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 06, 2019, 09:11:54 AM
Quote from: simplyfulham on October 05, 2019, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 05, 2019, 05:03:23 PM
Can't fault him for either of the goals today, but as I overheard someone say on the way out, if you swapped the keepers today we'd have won 4-0

Ludicrously speculative.

I don't know if their goalkeeper would have saved either of our goals, but really doubt Betts would have saved that BC.Reid strike that their goalie saved. Their goalie had a better game than Betts

Their GK had to have a better game than Betts or it would have been a thrashing.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Mickeyboro on October 06, 2019, 09:14:52 AM
Quote from: Marinelloguthrie on October 06, 2019, 08:32:05 AM
Quote from: Mickeyboro on October 06, 2019, 08:21:21 AM
Try Rodak. If we don't he will be a success at another club like the Cardiff guy. What's to lose?

Football matches......

Would be change for change sake, no need yet..

Respectfully disagree. The defence should cope with either behind them. Bettinelli's first half distribution was woeful; a better footballing keeper would galvanise the whole team.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: HV71 on October 06, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
I love Mitro and realise that no one wants to have a go at him - but he was lacking for their second goal . . It was his man - he had height and I would suggest strength advantage and failed to put in a successful aerial challenge . Betts May have been slightly out of place but there were many other mistakes in that passage of play
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: ..FOF.. on October 06, 2019, 09:26:17 AM
Quote from: HV71 on October 06, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
I love Mitro and realise that no one wants to have a go at him - but he was lacking for their second goal . . It was his man - he had height and I would suggest strength advantage and failed to put in a successful aerial challenge . Betts May have been slightly out of place but there were many other mistakes in that passage of play

Great phrase "passage of play":D

I rewatched the second goal that we conceded again.

We committed 3 players to a single man at start when the ball came into the box.

Then a 4th player had to leave one unmarked to close down on another.

Halfway through that towards the goal, it looks like 5 players just ball watching and letting 3 charlton players moving around freely to distract the keeper.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/JUev9FHG5RkfYOIcsG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: bobby01 on October 06, 2019, 10:44:52 AM
Quote from: ..FOF.. on October 06, 2019, 09:26:17 AM
Quote from: HV71 on October 06, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
I love Mitro and realise that no one wants to have a go at him - but he was lacking for their second goal . . It was his man - he had height and I would suggest strength advantage and failed to put in a successful aerial challenge . Betts May have been slightly out of place but there were many other mistakes in that passage of play

Great phrase "passage of play":D

I rewatched the second goal that we conceded again.

We committed 3 players to a single man at start when the ball came into the box.

Then a 4th player had to leave one unmarked to close down on another.

Halfway through that towards the goal, it looks like 5 players just ball watching and letting 3 charlton players moving around freely to distract the keeper.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/JUev9FHG5RkfYOIcsG/giphy.gif)



Neither of the centre backs in the centre of the area, again.  Mawson was quick to moan at others after the goal but he was way out of position marking no one.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: grandad on October 06, 2019, 11:37:01 AM
As a discussion point. When the final cross came in there were 3 Charlton players in an offside position. The lino could not predict which Charlton player was going to head the ball so why didn't he flag for offside.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: mancwhite on October 06, 2019, 12:30:07 PM
He is a good goalkeeper- like all goalies will make a mistake at some point. Like others my concern is that his distribution although improved is still too slow. As a passing team we need to set a quick tempo (like we did in the second half yesterday) without a quick tempo we just become a possession team passing it between ourselves in front of the opposition struggling to break them down when they have their settled shape. With our skills and pace we should be able to exploit broken play better than others. Lots of opportunities first half to have delivered the ball quickly but chose not to or more worryingly didn't see it. Just making things harder for ourselves than need to
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Tabby on October 06, 2019, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 06, 2019, 11:37:01 AM
As a discussion point. When the final cross came in there were 3 Charlton players in an offside position. The lino could not predict which Charlton player was going to head the ball so why didn't he flag for offside.

Because he isn't supposed to predict who will head the ball and flag before they do it, he is supposed to flag if someone involved in play was offside.

As for Bettinelli, I think he is a mediocre Championship keeper.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Sting of the North on October 06, 2019, 01:07:33 PM
Quote from: Tabby on October 06, 2019, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 06, 2019, 11:37:01 AM
As a discussion point. When the final cross came in there were 3 Charlton players in an offside position. The lino could not predict which Charlton player was going to head the ball so why didn't he flag for offside.

Because he isn't supposed to predict who will head the ball and flag before they do it, he is supposed to flag if someone involved in play was offside.

As for Bettinelli, I think he is a mediocre Championship keeper.

This is completely correct regarding offside. The linesmen are instructed not to flag too early, which is also why they seemingly wait too long sometimes. Better than the other way around.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: HV71 on October 06, 2019, 02:02:45 PM


Neither of the centre backs in the centre of the area, again.  Mawson was quick to moan at others after the goal but he was way out of position marking no one.


Fair point but it is still Mitro' s man as play developed- his lack of challenge was poor. I love the guy but I'm tired of people just having a pop at the ' obvious ' targets. This is a team  game
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Bassey the warrior on October 06, 2019, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: HV71 on October 06, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
I love Mitro and realise that no one wants to have a go at him - but he was lacking for their second goal . . It was his man - he had height and I would suggest strength advantage and failed to put in a successful aerial challenge . Betts May have been slightly out of place but there were many other mistakes in that passage of play

Agree.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Woodlawn on October 06, 2019, 02:39:14 PM
I'm sorry but I think he is a mistake waiting to happen, When he has ball at his feet he frightens the life out of me. Just wish he would quicken up he's distributing. More bookings for time wasting are a certainty.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: bobby01 on October 06, 2019, 02:46:22 PM
Quote from: HV71 on October 06, 2019, 02:02:45 PM


Neither of the centre backs in the centre of the area, again.  Mawson was quick to moan at others after the goal but he was way out of position marking no one.


Fair point but it is still Mitro' s man as play developed- his lack of challenge was poor. I love the guy but I'm tired of people just having a pop at the ' obvious ' targets. This is a team  game


.


Fair point, don't disagree with you.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Baszab on October 06, 2019, 07:28:00 PM
As Brian Granville so eloquently states in the Sunday Times:-

" Bettinelli was carelessly off his line"
for the second goal
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Sting of the North on October 06, 2019, 07:30:34 PM
Quote from: Baszab on October 06, 2019, 07:28:00 PM
As Brian Granville so eloquently states in the Sunday Times:-

" Bettinelli was carelessly off his line"
for the second goal

Well, if it's in the paper, that settles it then.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: bill taylors apprentice on October 06, 2019, 07:47:45 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on October 06, 2019, 07:30:34 PM
Quote from: Baszab on October 06, 2019, 07:28:00 PM
As Brian Granville so eloquently states in the Sunday Times:-

" Bettinelli was carelessly off his line"
for the second goal

Well, if it's in the paper, that settles it then.

I agree!
And he's incapable of moving his feet quickly enough to change position when needed.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: snarks on October 07, 2019, 08:28:45 AM
So for Cav's goal, if that had been scored against us, how many would be criticizing Betts for being beaten at his near post?

More than one. A goalkeeper has to anticipate, it can't all be on reactions, for their second goal he sees the player about to cross and steps so that he can come for it if necessary. To say he's was carelessly forward is giving too much emphasis to his positioning.

Still people are entitled to their opinions, but we have to have a scapegoat for every goal we concede
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: toshes mate on October 07, 2019, 08:43:28 AM
The bash Bettinelli brigade dishing out pseudo speak once again. 

Can we get a better 'keeper?  Yes!  Could said recruitment activity get us a worse 'keeper?  Absolutely as we all well know!
Was Bettinelli at fault for either goal on Saturday?  According to some he was and according to others he wasn't.  So pundits of any kind are not to be trusted?  No, they are not and nor are they meant to be. 

And so all these pundits are just people who can't get a job playing football, coaching, or even organising behind the scenes, but they can operate their vocal chords and/or, sometimes very slowly, a keyboard?
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Black and White Blood on October 07, 2019, 03:11:55 PM
Everyone should get off Betts case.
When we narrowly missed promotion and the actual promotion year, the winning run
corresponded with Betts reinstatement into the Team.
He's made a couple of blunders this year but we are 6 games unbeaten.
More than once he has been let down by the defence.
Unless we can go out and sign a Van dear Sat, then give him a break.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Matt10 on October 07, 2019, 03:45:20 PM
I don't have video, but that deflected save he made towards the end also saved us a point. It was incredible.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Nero on October 12, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Well at least with Betts we havent paid a fortune for him like Pickford who seems to get worse every game, what has happened to English goal keeping
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: The Rational Fan on October 12, 2019, 10:23:45 AM
Fabri made 16 saves last year and a few errors, then was dropped because he wasn't considered good enough. Even after letting in 30 goals in 34 games in previous season.

Betts has made 15 saves this year, it's only fair he is judged now.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Forever Fulham on October 12, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
More cohesion needed in the back line.  With proper support, he can do the job alright.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on October 12, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 12, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
More cohesion needed in the back line.  With proper support, he can do the job alright.

You won't get much better at this level than Odoi, Mawson, Ream and Bryan.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: The Rational Fan on October 13, 2019, 09:55:17 PM
We have had a few games where the other teams goalie has been better than Betts.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Andy S on October 13, 2019, 10:02:17 PM
That's because they have been under more pressure!
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: The Rational Fan on October 15, 2019, 05:59:13 AM
Quote from: Andy S on October 13, 2019, 10:02:17 PM
That's because they have been under more pressure!

True, but using that logic Betts should have been the best goalie every game last year.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Twig on October 15, 2019, 06:29:34 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 12, 2019, 10:23:45 AM
Fabri made 16 saves last year and a few errors, then was dropped because he wasn't considered good enough. Even after letting in 30 goals in 34 games in previous season.

Betts has made 15 saves this year, it's only fair he is judged now.

I have challenged you before on this but you never respond. I saw all but one of Fabri's UK based appearances including preseason. His command of his area and his decision making was the worst I have ever witnessed. How many of his appearances did you ever actually go and watch live? Then tell me how, based on those performances, Fabri could have merited any further game time?
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Twig on October 15, 2019, 06:31:27 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 12, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 12, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
More cohesion needed in the back line.  With proper support, he can do the job alright.

You won't get much better at this level than Odoi, Mawson, Ream and Bryan.

I don't think we have a poor back four but they have been roundly criticised on here several times this season so how do you now arrive at the conclusion that, you won't get much better? Just wondering.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 07:12:00 AM
Betts is certainly much better than Rico, who seemed to lose complete confidence, especially with high balls - he seemed unable to catch a ball, and had no control of his area.

Betts has done well this season imo.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Riversider on October 15, 2019, 07:23:24 AM
Asmir Begovic and Alex McCarthy are both far, far, far better keepers than Bettinelli will ever be, and both keepers are currently available,  either one of those two in January and a top class right back and we will get promoted.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:24:42 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 07:12:00 AM
Betts is certainly much better than Rico, who seemed to lose complete confidence, especially with high balls - he seemed unable to catch a ball, and had no control of his area.

Betts has done well this season imo.

I nearly fell of my chair reading this.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
Quote from: Twig on October 15, 2019, 06:31:27 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 12, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 12, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
More cohesion needed in the back line.  With proper support, he can do the job alright.

You won't get much better at this level than Odoi, Mawson, Ream and Bryan.

I don't think we have a poor back four but they have been roundly criticised on here several times this season so how do you now arrive at the conclusion that, you won't get much better? Just wondering.

This season, it hasn't been the back 4 letting us down. Its been the attack (bar last few games).

Mawson is easily one of the best CBs in the league. Bryan is the best full back. Ream has discovered his form again, and Odoi is a solid player. Without spending huge, there aren't many defences better at this level.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:29:21 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 13, 2019, 09:55:17 PM
We have had a few games where the other teams goalie has been better than Betts.

Bettinelli has made 15 saves this season, and conceded 10 goals. That is because of 2 reasons

1. We don't allow the opposition more than a couple of chances a game
2. Bettinelli, when called upon, has conceded 40% of opposition shots on target
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: Riversider on October 15, 2019, 07:23:24 AM
Asmir Begovic and Alex McCarthy are both far, far, far better keepers than Bettinelli will ever be, and both keepers are currently available,  either one of those two in January and a top class right back and we will get promoted.

Agree. Sessegnon has until January to prove his worth, or unfortunately for him, we may have to look in the market.

McCarthy would be a solid buy, but his distribution is lacking. That has to be a priority when looking for a new keeper, considering how we play.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:43:48 AM
I think Betts is adapting quite well to the system we play, and his distribution is improving.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: snarks on October 15, 2019, 10:46:08 AM
Statistics to analyse Betts are fairly pointless. The Reading goal for example was, I think, their second shot on target, he had no chance with it, nor would most other keepers in the division.  That's because the team are limiting the other sides shots that Betts has to deal with, as a consequence other teams are generally scoring "good" goals against us, unlike last season. 

Actual goals that can be put purely down to him are in my view 1, that being Cardiff away. As many have indicated other goals have been the result of defensive lapses. Yes goalkeepers are easy to blame and perception counts for a lot, but the idea that Betts  is solely responsible for any goal is just wrong.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: simplyfulham on October 15, 2019, 12:10:28 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: Riversider on October 15, 2019, 07:23:24 AM
Asmir Begovic and Alex McCarthy are both far, far, far better keepers than Bettinelli will ever be, and both keepers are currently available,  either one of those two in January and a top class right back and we will get promoted.

Agree. Sessegnon has until January to prove his worth, or unfortunately for him, we may have to look in the market.

McCarthy would be a solid buy, but his distribution is lacking. That has to be a priority when looking for a new keeper, considering how we play.

Begovic isn't the keeper he once was and is now in semi retirement playing in the Azerbaijani top flight.

Alex McCarthy's form has also dropped off a cliff, he's no better then Bettinelli.

The idea that we'd need to dip into the transfer market to cover Sess at right back seems a little far fetched given for that position we already have ; Christie, Odoi and Fossey. That's before you consider Drameh and Reed as emergency cover.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: toshes mate on October 15, 2019, 12:33:23 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
This season, it hasn't been the back 4 letting us down. Its been the attack (bar last few games).
I'll never stop being surprised at how rapidly you sum up the faults in a Fulham team that is a) the third highest scoring in the division and b) has the second best goal difference. Bettinelli is a good Championship quality keeper.  No doubt there will be one or two who look apparently better on any given day of the week but there'll always be 'keepers much worse than he is at this level.  And FWIIW the problems this season have been down to midfield possession going down blind alleys trying to force issues instead of recycling and moving opponents around until they leave openings that can be exploited.  I am hopeful that will come in time but it needs a disciplined midfield prepared to work hard to make it work.  Disciplined and organised teams have disciplined and organised individual players. 
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Chutney on October 15, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
Quote from: Twig on October 15, 2019, 06:31:27 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 12, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 12, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
More cohesion needed in the back line.  With proper support, he can do the job alright.

You won't get much better at this level than Odoi, Mawson, Ream and Bryan.

I don't think we have a poor back four but they have been roundly criticised on here several times this season so how do you now arrive at the conclusion that, you won't get much better? Just wondering.

This season, it hasn't been the back 4 letting us down. Its been the attack (bar last few games).

Mawson is easily one of the best CBs in the league. Bryan is the best full back. Ream has discovered his form again, and Odoi is a solid player. Without spending huge, there aren't many defences better at this level.

Bryan is far from the best full back in this division. He's not even the best left back.

Furthermore, If any of the players you've listed get injured we go from a top 6 defence to a bottom 6 defence, not that we can do anything about that until Jan. I think Ream and Hector could be a dream CB combo.

I agree that the forwards have let us down, we need to be more clinical, but our defenders have also cost us points, the full backs especially.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 01:15:49 PM
Quote from: Chutney on October 15, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
Quote from: Twig on October 15, 2019, 06:31:27 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 12, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 12, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
More cohesion needed in the back line.  With proper support, he can do the job alright.

You won't get much better at this level than Odoi, Mawson, Ream and Bryan.

I don't think we have a poor back four but they have been roundly criticised on here several times this season so how do you now arrive at the conclusion that, you won't get much better? Just wondering.

This season, it hasn't been the back 4 letting us down. Its been the attack (bar last few games).

Mawson is easily one of the best CBs in the league. Bryan is the best full back. Ream has discovered his form again, and Odoi is a solid player. Without spending huge, there aren't many defences better at this level.

Bryan is far from the best full back in this division. He's not even the best left back.

Furthermore, If any of the players you've listed get injured we go from a top 6 defence to a bottom 6 defence, not that we can do anything about that until Jan. I think Ream and Hector could be a dream CB combo.

I agree that the forwards have let us down, we need to be more clinical, but our defenders have also cost us points, the full backs especially.

Who is the best full back in your opinion?
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Statto on October 15, 2019, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
Mawson is easily one of the best CBs in the league. Bryan is the best full back. Ream has discovered his form again, and Odoi is a solid player. Without spending huge, there aren't many defences better at this level.

Largely agree.

Mawson - walks into any Championship team
Hector - walks into any Championship team
Bryan - walks into any Championship team
Ream - on current form walks into almost any Championship team
Odoi -  top 6 Championship full back / average Championship CB
Sessegnon - average Championship full back

Overall, IMO the best defence in the division, albeit not the best depth of cover

Bettinelli - average or bottom half Championship GK 
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Statto on October 15, 2019, 01:31:00 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:24:42 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 07:12:00 AM
Betts is certainly much better than Rico

I nearly fell of my chair reading this.

Me too
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: MJG on October 15, 2019, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 15, 2019, 01:31:00 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:24:42 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 07:12:00 AM
Betts is certainly much better than Rico

I nearly fell of my chair reading this.

Me too
And not a Goalkeeper anywhere to catch you... Typical
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Chutney on October 15, 2019, 04:03:20 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 01:15:49 PM
Quote from: Chutney on October 15, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
Quote from: Twig on October 15, 2019, 06:31:27 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 12, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 12, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
More cohesion needed in the back line.  With proper support, he can do the job alright.

You won't get much better at this level than Odoi, Mawson, Ream and Bryan.

I don't think we have a poor back four but they have been roundly criticised on here several times this season so how do you now arrive at the conclusion that, you won't get much better? Just wondering.

This season, it hasn't been the back 4 letting us down. Its been the attack (bar last few games).

Mawson is easily one of the best CBs in the league. Bryan is the best full back. Ream has discovered his form again, and Odoi is a solid player. Without spending huge, there aren't many defences better at this level.

Bryan is far from the best full back in this division. He's not even the best left back.

Furthermore, If any of the players you've listed get injured we go from a top 6 defence to a bottom 6 defence, not that we can do anything about that until Jan. I think Ream and Hector could be a dream CB combo.

I agree that the forwards have let us down, we need to be more clinical, but our defenders have also cost us points, the full backs especially.

Who is the best full back in your opinion?

Any one of Gibbs, Ribiero, Douglas or Bennett on their day, based purely on ability. Bryan inst currently better at attacking or defending than any of those 4.

You could also add Furlong and Cash on current form, although Bryan is probably an overall better player.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: snarks on October 15, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Statto on October 15, 2019, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Chutney on October 15, 2019, 04:03:20 PM
Any one of Gibbs, Ribiero, Douglas or Bennett on their day, based purely on ability. Bryan inst currently better at attacking or defending than any of those 4.

Is Ribeiro even first choice for Forest? The other three are all 29/30. Not a single goal or assist between the four of them. Compared to Bryan who has two assists and a goal. I'd love to pull up some more detailed stats - pretty sure Bryan will take all of them to the cleaners when it comes to pass accuracy etc.

Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 08:40:04 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 15, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.

I don't see how  he could have saved the Cardiff goal - he would have had to have moved his hand in mid -air in a spit second reaction. Weren't the outfield players  at fault for the   goal, if blame is ascribed?

I don't think any of the goals conceded this season were definitely down to him.

I stand  by my claim that Betts is a lot better than Rico became,  with his seeming loss of confidence, and completely hopeless with high balls.

I remember his performance at  West Ham  and Burnley, games I attended, and which were crucial for us to get something from, and which we scored first in both, and went on to lose with  stupidly conceded goals, unable to deal with high balls into the box, which wasn't just the fault of Rico, obviously.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: The Rational Fan on October 16, 2019, 01:05:15 AM
Quote from: Statto on October 15, 2019, 01:31:00 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on October 15, 2019, 10:24:42 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 07:12:00 AM
Betts is certainly much better than Rico

I nearly fell of my chair reading this.

Me too

Betts may have been a great goalkeeper second half of 17/18, but his movement to cover his left post seems not as good as before.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: love4ffc on October 16, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
Betts is more then good enough for this league.  At some point I would hope that people on here would except that he is our number one and get off his back and start supporting the lad. 
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Woolly Mammoth on October 16, 2019, 03:17:14 AM
Quote from: love4ffc on October 16, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
Betts is more then good enough for this league.  At some point I would hope that people on here would except that he is our number one and get off his back and start supporting the lad. 

Agreed
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Denver Fulham on October 16, 2019, 05:35:20 AM
Quote from: love4ffc on October 16, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
Betts is more then good enough for this league.  At some point I would hope that people on here would except that he is our number one and get off his back and start supporting the lad. 

How many times this season have you thought we had the better goalkeeper in the match?
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: colinwhite on October 16, 2019, 06:00:54 AM
Bettineli has made mistakes which have cost us points,but he is  still good enough and now has the experience of knowing what it takes to get up to the PL.
One of my problems is that I keep comparing current GKs to Van de sar and Scwarzer!
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Statto on October 16, 2019, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: love4ffc on October 16, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
At some point I would hope that people on here would except that he is our number one and get off his back and start supporting the lad. 

I sympathise with this comment a little. I'm actually a big fan of Bettinelli on a personal/character level. On another thread previously i said he was a "legend", and got some stick but stand by that comment. I certainly get behind him at matches. But it shouldn't mean I can't observe, in an objective discussion on the forum, that he's technically the weakest player in our starting XI. Well, it's between him and Sessegnon, who's actually another player I really like on a personal/character level.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Bassey the warrior on October 17, 2019, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 08:40:04 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 15, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.

I don't see how  he could have saved the Cardiff goal - he would have had to have moved his hand in mid -air in a spit second reaction. Weren't the outfield players  at fault for the   goal, if blame is ascribed?

I don't think any of the goals conceded this season were definitely down to him.

I stand  by my claim that Betts is a lot better than Rico became,  with his seeming loss of confidence, and completely hopeless with high balls.

I remember his performance at  West Ham  and Burnley, games I attended, and which were crucial for us to get something from, and which we scored first in both, and went on to lose with  stupidly conceded goals, unable to deal with high balls into the box, which wasn't just the fault of Rico, obviously.

This is laughable. Rico isn't great in the air but Betts is the same. Rico is much better as a shot stopper. Would Betts have been signed by PSG? I suggest you take off the rose tinted glasses.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Bassey the warrior on October 17, 2019, 01:00:55 PM
For what's it worth I don't advocate dropping Betts at the moment as we're on an upward curve. I did before but there's no point rocking the boat. Obviously if he keeps making catastrophic errors he will need to be dropped.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: simplyfulham on October 17, 2019, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on October 17, 2019, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 08:40:04 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 15, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.

I don't see how  he could have saved the Cardiff goal - he would have had to have moved his hand in mid -air in a spit second reaction. Weren't the outfield players  at fault for the   goal, if blame is ascribed?

I don't think any of the goals conceded this season were definitely down to him.

I stand  by my claim that Betts is a lot better than Rico became,  with his seeming loss of confidence, and completely hopeless with high balls.

I remember his performance at  West Ham  and Burnley, games I attended, and which were crucial for us to get something from, and which we scored first in both, and went on to lose with  stupidly conceded goals, unable to deal with high balls into the box, which wasn't just the fault of Rico, obviously.

This is laughable. Rico isn't great in the air but Betts is the same. Rico is much better as a shot stopper. Would Betts have been signed by PSG? I suggest you take off the rose tinted glasses.

Sorry is that third choice hasn't made an appearance yet Sergio Rico?
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Bassey the warrior on October 17, 2019, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on October 17, 2019, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on October 17, 2019, 12:59:29 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 08:40:04 PM
Quote from: snarks on October 15, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on October 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Didn't ball hit a bobble and go over his outstretched hand v Cardiff? - not much he could do about it.

The goal was caused by losing possession  further up the field, and a   defence splitting pass, with Ream out of position after   going forward with the ball, and an attacker running through to shoot unimpeded, but Betts would have saved the shot if  the ball hadn't hit a bump and  bounced over his outstretched   hand.
Later in the game  he made a crucial save from a point blank shot.

Generally,  he seems a  safe pair of hands, especially compared to Rico, and   is building a rapport with  the defenders in front of him.

I just think at the Cardiff goal he should have done better, yes it takes a bobble but I think he should have saved it, some of the others he's been blamed for aren't his fault (actually I forgot West Brom at home, definitely down to him) like Charlton's goals.

As I've said on other threads, I think he's getting unnecessary flack.

I don't see how  he could have saved the Cardiff goal - he would have had to have moved his hand in mid -air in a spit second reaction. Weren't the outfield players  at fault for the   goal, if blame is ascribed?

I don't think any of the goals conceded this season were definitely down to him.

I stand  by my claim that Betts is a lot better than Rico became,  with his seeming loss of confidence, and completely hopeless with high balls.

I remember his performance at  West Ham  and Burnley, games I attended, and which were crucial for us to get something from, and which we scored first in both, and went on to lose with  stupidly conceded goals, unable to deal with high balls into the box, which wasn't just the fault of Rico, obviously.

This is laughable. Rico isn't great in the air but Betts is the same. Rico is much better as a shot stopper. Would Betts have been signed by PSG? I suggest you take off the rose tinted glasses.

Sorry is that third choice hasn't made an appearance yet Sergio Rico?

2nd choice, only behind former Real Madrid number one and excellent keeper, Navas.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Dodgin on October 26, 2019, 07:41:54 PM
Good interview on the Fulham website, admitting he has not been at his best, should feel better after today
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Denver Fulham on October 26, 2019, 08:35:18 PM
Quote from: Dodgin on October 26, 2019, 07:41:54 PM
Good interview on the Fulham website, admitting he has not been at his best, should feel better after today

Betts was solid today in a tough spot cold off the bench, but his general weaknesses were still on display. He did come for a couple free kicks near the edge of his area, but a couple others from the run of play he seemed rooted and we were fortunate Boro wasted the chances. He also got caught guessing on their free kick and wasn't agile enough to recover, with the post saving him. No one is saying Betts is incompetent. He's just not at the level we should have in goal with this roster. They've given Rodak a look and hard to say he's done better, so it remains an issue.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: cookieg on October 26, 2019, 09:12:33 PM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on October 26, 2019, 08:35:18 PM
Quote from: Dodgin on October 26, 2019, 07:41:54 PM
Good interview on the Fulham website, admitting he has not been at his best, should feel better after today

Betts was solid today in a tough spot cold off the bench, but his general weaknesses were still on display. He did come for a couple free kicks near the edge of his area, but a couple others from the run of play he seemed rooted and we were fortunate Boro wasted the chances. He also got caught guessing on their free kick and wasn't agile enough to recover, with the post saving him. No one is saying Betts is incompetent. He's just not at the level we should have in goal with this roster. They've given Rodak a look and hard to say he's done better, so it remains an issue.

Betts is an average keeper at this level who has had a good half a season a couple of years ago. For me I can't see that he has the ability to improve beyond where he is now. Rodak may be the future but we could do with a better no.1.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Twig on October 26, 2019, 09:19:11 PM
As far as I am concerned Betts is still out number one. Not a Van D S or a Schwartzer but still our current number one. As such we should get behind him, at least until we have better.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Marinelloguthrie on October 27, 2019, 12:19:41 PM
Quote from: Twig on October 26, 2019, 09:19:11 PM
As far as I am concerned Betts is still out number one. Not a Van D S or a Schwartzer but still our current number one. As such we should get behind him, at least until we have better.

Completely agree, suits no one to keep chipping away at our keepers confidence
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: toshes mate on October 27, 2019, 12:51:45 PM
I believe Bettinelli and Rodak are much the same standard overall with the former having the greater match experience at this level but the latter having the ability to get much better with similar experience.

I feel Rodak may have been very hard done by yesterday.  If you look at the social media photo suggesting the ball was hitting his hand it is ample evidence that he was the victim of a poor refereeing decision.  If you look at this telephoto shot and allow for lens foreshortening and the angle it is taken (which can be determined by Howson's position with no goal woodwork in view), there is no way it was taken at point of ball contact with Rodak's body and was most likely taken after the ball had hit him (somewhere) and rebounded back away from goal at similar pace to when it struck him.  I think it most likely hit the right side of his chest.  I would love to see the run of photos taken by the camera in question if there were multi-shots because they could decide the matter one way or another. 
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Mince n Tatties on October 27, 2019, 03:04:18 PM
No protest or appeal from the club.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Moltobueno on October 27, 2019, 03:27:57 PM
When it comes to playing with feet, Betts is better than Rodak. But the time wasting in every game is becoming annoying and a bit embarrassing
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Andy S on October 27, 2019, 09:52:45 PM
It's hand ball because that is what the ref said. That is his job. It's Rodak job to be a goal keeper and leave the up field stuff to others
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on October 28, 2019, 05:01:54 PM
Quote from: Moltobueno on October 27, 2019, 03:27:57 PM
When it comes to playing with feet, Betts is better than Rodak. But the time wasting in every game is becoming annoying and a bit embarrassing

Bettinelli has been forced to play with the ball at his feet for years now, and still isn't particularly good at it.

Rodak, given the chance, doesn't have to do much to excel Betts abilities.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: love4ffc on October 28, 2019, 05:30:02 PM
I would be curious, is there a keeper out there that is currently out of favor or possible third choice riding the pine, that could be brought in short term to shore up the goal.  Perhaps someone who could be a great example of experience and knowledge for Rodak to learn from. 
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Milo on October 28, 2019, 05:36:31 PM
My father watched Rodak when he went on loan and didn't think he will be our saviour.

Time to spend money I think.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: MJG on October 28, 2019, 05:54:43 PM
Less than a game and half in goal and written off already?
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: love4ffc on October 28, 2019, 06:00:15 PM
I'm not writing off Rodak but, would be interested in a possible aging keeper that could come in and help provide an option and an experienced hand for Rodak to learn from. 
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Forever Fulham on October 28, 2019, 08:18:05 PM
Betts was at his best when we had a settled back 4, when the mids would transition back quickly on lost possession.  Betts knew what the 4 in front of him were going to do.  Situational football.  We were covering for each other.  A pressure guy and a cover guy behind him.  He's no worse than he was back then.  But the settled expectations about those around him have changed.  At least that's how it looks to me.  If we wanted promotion at the end of this season, Parker wasn't the guy to get it done.  Why do people think ex-players are automatically gifted with manager skills when they retire?  I'll never understand that.  Or that a popular player will most certainly end up an effective manager?  Slava had "it", whatever "it" is.   
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Denver Fulham on October 28, 2019, 08:31:12 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 28, 2019, 08:18:05 PM
If we wanted promotion at the end of this season, Parker wasn't the guy to get it done.  Why do people think ex-players are automatically gifted with manager skills when they retire?  I'll never understand that.  Or that a popular player will most certainly end up an effective manager?  Slava had "it", whatever "it" is.   

We can argue whether Scotty is the right choice, but management apparently believed he could deliver it because this roster was 100% built for promotion this season. To suggest otherwise (not that you are) is foolish. Look at the ages of the key players and the loan-to-buy options on the contracts we gave out.

That's why the relative weakness at goalkeeper is so noticeable and frustrating.
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: Forever Fulham on October 28, 2019, 10:35:15 PM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on October 28, 2019, 08:31:12 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on October 28, 2019, 08:18:05 PM
If we wanted promotion at the end of this season, Parker wasn't the guy to get it done.  Why do people think ex-players are automatically gifted with manager skills when they retire?  I'll never understand that.  Or that a popular player will most certainly end up an effective manager?  Slava had "it", whatever "it" is.   

We can argue whether Scotty is the right choice, but management apparently believed he could deliver it because this roster was 100% built for promotion this season. To suggest otherwise (not that you are) is foolish. Look at the ages of the key players and the loan-to-buy options on the contracts we gave out.

That's why the relative weakness at goalkeeper is so noticeable and frustrating.

With respect, Denver, if the roster was 100% built for promotion this season, then a seasoned manager with a record of accomplishments would have us top two or three at this point.  A collection of talented players who accomplished much on their respective previous teams needs but a good manager to get such talent to produce as a team.  Is that happening here?  No need to reply.  I could be all wet, and Parker may yet turn out a gem of a manager.  There's still a little time left to start consistently winning.  Not midnight yet. 
Title: Re: Bettinelli
Post by: FFC1987 on October 29, 2019, 08:48:27 AM
Quote from: MJG on October 28, 2019, 05:54:43 PM
Less than a game and half in goal and written off already?

That's always the problem with a competitive squad. When you get your chance, you have to take it or be replaced. Sadly, being sent off in the circumstances with a suspension means he's being replaced and might not see much, or any game time for the rest of the year now. Last year it happened to both Fabri and Betts with Rico stepping up. I'm not writing him off but unless Betts has some terrible form, I don't see much game time for Rodak.