'We are a young team that has been put together recently'.
A poor excuse. So is QPR's and at a fraction of the cost and they are out performing us.
I'm not saying we should sack him but when managers start making these sort of excuses it is a worry.
I hadn't heard that....worst excuse ever really.
Parker is correct as rarely a relegated team that gets new players gets promoted. Statistics show holding on to your players maximises the chance of going up, which he choose not to do.
WBA was relegated and promoted three times and promoted in ten years by not changing the team. Scott Parker is paying the price for having a new team, but i strongly expect that's his fault and he is responsible for the changes.
I am having difficulty finding the young players, in fact I think most of them are of an age and experience when they should be at their prime.
At the end of last season, Parker had clean sheets against Everton, Bournmouth and Cardiff
Contribution from the below players in those games, could have been used to transition to a great start.
Odoi/Christie MLM Ream Bryan
Anguisssa
Cairney Ayite
Mitro
Getting rid of Anguissa and Ayite were big mistakes, plus Fabri should have been given a chance after we were relegated.
If the team has changed and not working now especially defensively, then whose fault is that?
"i've said it many a time, I've said it to the players, this is a young squad. When I say young I don't mean in age, I mean it's young in terms of when it got put together"
Is the full quote which gives it a different meaning to the one inferred to in the op.
Seems a fair enough statement to me.
Quote from: MJG on October 21, 2019, 05:52:46 AM
"i've said it many a time, I've said it to the players, this is a young squad. When I say young I don't mean in age, I mean it's young in terms of when it got put together"
So, Scott Parker gets rid of seven players off the books to get new players and then blames our problems on being a young squad. He is correct if we kept Anguissa, Seri and Ayite, without getting Hector, Reed and Arter we wouldn't be such a "young squad" and probably would be better off now.
Quote from: MJG on October 21, 2019, 05:52:46 AM
"i've said it many a time, I've said it to the players, this is a young squad. When I say young I don't mean in age, I mean it's young in terms of when it got put together"
Is the full quote which gives it a different meaning to the one inferred to in the op.
Thanks for providing some actual useful input to the thread.
With the squad we have we should be top of the table, end of. Don't care how inexperienced Parker is as a manager 😡
Quote from: MJG on October 21, 2019, 05:52:46 AM
"i've said it many a time, I've said it to the players, this is a young squad. When I say young I don't mean in age, I mean it's young in terms of when it got put together"
Is the full quote which gives it a different meaning to the one inferred to in the op.
I also believe Parker is including himself and some in the coaching team in the equation, and is not using it as an excuse but simply as an expression of reality.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 21, 2019, 07:04:30 AM
Quote from: MJG on October 21, 2019, 05:52:46 AM
"i've said it many a time, I've said it to the players, this is a young squad. When I say young I don't mean in age, I mean it's young in terms of when it got put together"
So, Scott Parker gets rid of seven players off the books to get new players and then blames our problems on being a young squad. He is correct if we kept Anguissa, Seri and Ayite, without getting Hector, Reed and Arter we wouldn't be such a "young squad" and probably would be better off now.
I'm not sure how much say Parker had in getting rid of players
Would have held on to anguissa and not bought in Artur as he appears to lack discipline and will end up costing the team points.
As for scotty he's still got L plates on coaching wise.
Quote from: MJG on October 21, 2019, 05:52:46 AM
"i've said it many a time, I've said it to the players, this is a young squad. When I say young I don't mean in age, I mean it's young in terms of when it got put together"
Is the full quote which gives it a different meaning to the one inferred to in the op.
Queens Park Rangers have brought 14 new players, over double our amount, and yet Mark Warburton has got them to gel from virtually day one,
The Parker excuse is exactly that, an excuse, it's not a reason why we are performing so badly, ironically Queens Park Rangers next month could well be a defining moment for the faltering Parker/Wells partnership.
Quote from: Riversider on October 21, 2019, 09:47:35 AM
Quote from: MJG on October 21, 2019, 05:52:46 AM
"i've said it many a time, I've said it to the players, this is a young squad. When I say young I don't mean in age, I mean it's young in terms of when it got put together"
Is the full quote which gives it a different meaning to the one inferred to in the op.
Queens Park Rangers have brought 14 new players, over double our amount, and yet Mark Warburton has got them to gel from virtually day one,
The Parker excuse is exactly that, an excuse, it's not a reason why we are performing so badly, ironically Queens Park Rangers next month could well be a defining moment for the faltering Parker/Wells partnership.
This. We're 12 games in now. We can't be complaining about gelling time. I don't mind the quote upon MJG's posting the full quote as, at the least, hes factually right, but that's not a good excuse for some of the results. I think if you went to any championship manager in this division, or out of work manager, which squad you'd like to manage in the championship, i'd be surprised if it wasn't unanimous if it wasn't our squad. Theres no denying, we're not where we should be in terms of table, points or quality on the pitch, it needs to change and time is against Parker at the moment as I think hes only a few games from blowing it.
a win on weds and results go our way this week and we could be 3 points off top place. Poor on saturday but we have been good in most games and fantastic in a few. Yet to be outplayed and In my humble opinion unlucky not to have 4-6 more points on the board.
A bit more consistency and we will get there . Im predicting top 2 !!
Players had to go to balance the books. The new players although supposedly good enough for this league have not all gelled yet. It will happen I don't know when. If there was a magic formula I'm sure we would have gone for it. There isn't.
It's still too early to panic and throw the baby out with the bath water, a week in football is a long time. We are still in October. By Saturday evening we may have collected another 6 juicy points.
Quote from: Andy S on October 21, 2019, 10:10:11 AM
Players had to go to balance the books. The new players although supposedly good enough for this league have not all gelled yet. It will happen I don't know when. If there was a magic formula I'm sure we would have gone for it. There isn't.
if the gel has not set yet must be something wrong with the ingredients or the cook.
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 21, 2019, 10:01:58 AM
We're 12 games in now. We can't be complaining about gelling time. I don't mind the quote upon MJG's posting the full quote as, at the least, hes factually right, but that's not a good excuse for some of the results. I think if you went to any championship manager in this division, or out of work manager, which squad you'd like to manage in the championship, i'd be surprised if it wasn't unanimous if it wasn't our squad. Theres no denying, we're not where we should be in terms of table, points or quality on the pitch, it needs to change and time is against Parker at the moment as I think hes only a few games from blowing it.
Ranieri claimed the same for our squad last season and look where that got him. Managers and coaches claim all sorts of magical ability but very, very few of them deliver their promises. My question about the squad is whether or not another manager would have more success with this team and I would point to the 'individuals' in the squad who I would not regard as 'team' players as a guide to where the problems lie. Parker has been naive but he is learning on the job and quite a long run in should have been expected given the turnaround of players FFC has engaged in. I am not denying some of the incoming players are good players but it is a team sport and good team players are often a different breed altogether. Who is the influence SP can turn to when his ideas run out?
I don't think Parker going is a good idea unless we bring Slav back (or someone of the same ilk). Reasoning is, Parker has clearly worked on getting us to play a certain way, I wanted Hughton before Parker but I think he was sacked like a week after we signed Parker and both have very different styles of play. Changing now would just create further time delays in performances as you have to give a manager time to adjust etc. Now, Slav (or soemone similar) for instance has a almost identical style of play and would seemingly get straight into it, business as usual but potentially with more experience.
I personally don't think Slav will ever be considered again and I don't think anyone in the market available, would do what we're doing in terms of style. I do however think, losing to Luton might be too much for the owners and as much as I don't think its the best option, I could understand a dismissal at that point.
Quote from: Riversider on October 21, 2019, 09:47:35 AM
Queens Park Rangers have brought 14 new players, over double our amount, and yet Mark Warburton has got them to gel from virtually day one,
I actually had a look at the QPR team yesterday. By my calculations they had 4 new signings in the starting XI on Saturday, vs 5 in our XI. So perhaps they made a lot of new signings but most of them must have been squad players.
Quality managers are extemely rare,they are born and not made ,Parker is not one of these give him a hundred million pounds and he would still pick a bad team and be below average tactically
Quote from: Russianrob on October 21, 2019, 11:37:21 AM
Quality managers are extemely rare,they are born and not made ,Parker is not one of these give him a hundred million pounds and he would still pick a bad team and be below average tactically
I believe that no one is born for anything, to me that is frankly just absurd. Of course people have different talents, but that is just a small part of the puzzle. In my opinion.
You do not become a good manager by being born, you have to earn it through hard work and experience.
Brian Clough was not born, they had to drill for him, he was that good. He did not pick up his talent and man Management and motivational skills laying in a cot. He picked them up at the sharp end, in the field, to add to his Charisma and leadership qualities, he picked up his management and coaching skills by working with others. He was a one off that we may never see the likes of again sadly.
Bobby Robson was rubbish at Fulham and good for Ipswich/England/Barcelona. He either had two births (one a rubbish manager and another one a good manager) or he learnt something about managing a football team from 1967 and 1990.
And, if managers were born why the lack of good cricket managers from Portugal, Spain, France, Brazil, USA, China and Scotland. Personally, I think Parker should be assistant manager learning his trade.
Its the game nowadays,completely changed in the way managers are looked at.
Its all about instant success now and no patience,a manager goes at some club nearly every week now.
At this stage last season Preston were one win in eleven,bottom and fans unsettled.
The board stuck by Neil,they charged up league after Xmas and just missed out on play offs.
This season they are sitting 4th at moment.
Stoke who have just dunted us could have got rid of Jones,but the owners and fans were never really on his back as they believed in what he was trying to put together,so a couple of clubs have showed that patience sometimes works.
I believe it will happen with Scotty.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 22, 2019, 08:13:25 AM
Its the game nowadays,completely changed in the way managers are looked at.
Its all about instant success now and no patience,a manager goes at some club nearly every week now.
At this stage last season Preston were one win in eleven,bottom and fans unsettled.
The board stuck by Neil,they charged up league after Xmas and just missed out on play offs.
This season they are sitting 4th at moment.
Stoke who have just dunted us could have got rid of Jones,but the owners and fans were never really on his back as they believed in what he was trying to put together,so a couple of clubs have showed that patience sometimes works.
I believe it will happen with Scotty.
If a person trust statistics and I do, then statistics show most promoted managers start the season with at least a full season as manager of the club in the Premier League or Championship. If Parker was the right selection, then we should stick with him, cause he will have the experience next year to get promoted.
If FFC never should have chosen Parker, we should keep him until our "executive management" works out "how to choose managers" as there is no point sacking a manager at a club clueless about choosing managers (which we seem to be).
I thought it was a mistake to give the job to Scotty P. I didn't think he was ready for it. Just being a likeable player doesn't give you the qualities you need to be a good manager. Who the heck tinkers with sudden changes to the formation of the back line on a team that is already struggling to keep out goals? Four in the back works better for us with the players we have. They aren't speed merchants. And the mids don't all get back like they should in transition, so...
It's a bit early for Parker to be bringing out the excuses. Once your manager starts making excuses, personal responsibility of players and the training staff goes out the window. Is he making changes on the fly when he sees a formation isn't effective, isn't working as hoped for? Not that I could see. How many instances of desperate scrambling in the back and at goal does it take a good manager to see to make changes to the formation? Is he incapable of in-game management? If players are coming back from international duty for country and are tired, don't play them. That's part of the attention to detail you demand of a good manager. If a particular player routinely fails to track back, transition, and play defense, and you are getting burned for it, a good manager acts on that.
Scott Parker is telling us what I pointed out on this forum and he should have known.
Most teams that go up, down and back up don't use Parchaute money to buy a new team (obviously West Ham and Newscastle being expections).
WBA showed the way to get promoted after relegation and the rule is "avoid changing the squad" even if you get 26 points and come 19th like WBA in 2002-3.
WBA History of getting Relegated and Promoted
1999–2000 Div 1. 49 points 21st (like FFC 15/16)
2000–01 Div 1. 74 points 6th (like FFC 16/17)
2001–02 Div 1. 89 points 2nd (like FFC 17/18)
2002–03 Prem. 26 points 19th (like FFC 18/19)
2003–04 Div 1. 86 points 2nd
2004–05 Prem. 34 points 17th
2005–06 Prem. 30 points 19th
2006–07 Chmp. 76 points 4th
2007–08 Chmp. 81 points 1st
2008–09 Prem. 32 points 20th
2009–10 Chmp. 91 points 2nd
2010–11 Prem. 47 points 11th
2011–12 Prem. 47 points 10th
Scott Parker was playing all those years. In 2003-4 WBA kept their squad that got 26 points and got 86 points. They did it again in 2006-7 getting 76 points and again in 2009-10 getting 91 points. That's about successful algorithm you will ever get in football.
Importantly, other teams like Sunderland and other leagues have shown similar trends. It seems better to "stick with the same team and hope they play better" than "get a team of new faces and hope they gel". Next season, I expect Norwich will follow this method and succeed.
Parker should have known changing the squad would hurt the first half of the season. TK should have bought players in the winter transfer window that would have come down to the Championship. And Jokavoic should have signed a long contract, and promised if he gets us relegated then he gets us promoted again.
Quote from: MJG on October 21, 2019, 05:52:46 AM
"i've said it many a time, I've said it to the players, this is a young squad. When I say young I don't mean in age, I mean it's young in terms of when it got put together"
Is the full quote which gives it a different meaning to the one inferred to in the op.
Agree with you.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 22, 2019, 08:13:25 AM
Its the game nowadays,completely changed in the way managers are looked at.
Its all about instant success now and no patience,a manager goes at some club nearly every week now.
At this stage last season Preston were one win in eleven,bottom and fans unsettled.
The board stuck by Neil,they charged up league after Xmas and just missed out on play offs.
This season they are sitting 4th at moment.
Stoke who have just dunted us could have got rid of Jones,but the owners and fans were never really on his back as they believed in what he was trying to put together,so a couple of clubs have showed that patience sometimes works.
I believe it will happen with Scotty.
Yes I agree with all you say.
Far too much knee jerk reaction on here I am afraid to say. Of course I understand the concerns, but if we are in a frying pan, let's not jump out of it into the fire.
Currently we are 3 points behind 5th place with a game in hand. This game in hand tonight is in many ways crucial. At the start of the season we would have looked at the fixture and had every confidence we have the ability to take all three points, and we still do, but expectations have natural diminished a little which is no bad thing. It may help the team and SP, it takes a bit of pressure off, and if I was him I would be currently turning over in bed working out the best way to beat Luton Town.
Of course anything other than a win will attract his critics for their weekly ritual of combusting and bursting into flames.
All in all though the average fan will peer at the League Table and feel that a win tonight will place us within 3 points of the leaders, and will be hoping for a more positive start from the front foot, and a faster tempo in build ups, but just as importantly we have to get the basics right and each player has to show more urgency than the last match, with a more improved application, and we should work harder off the ball in my opinion.
Is one of our problems attitude I ask myself.
Look what happened with Barnsley last night, fought to the last man, and deserved to win as well, they also appear to have a useful striker who scored a brace last night, and showed that given the opportunity, he will score goals at this level against good opponents like West Bromwich Albion on their own patch.
Luton will not roll over and let us tickle their tummy, but with the right commitment, we have the armoury to put their flame out early in the game, and therefore, not giving them hope when there isn't any.
Goals change games and it's time we scored a couple early on to take command and build on it.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 22, 2019, 08:13:25 AM
Its the game nowadays,completely changed in the way managers are looked at.
Its all about instant success now and no patience,a manager goes at some club nearly every week now.
At this stage last season Preston were one win in eleven,bottom and fans unsettled.
The board stuck by Neil,they charged up league after Xmas and just missed out on play offs.
This season they are sitting 4th at moment.
Stoke who have just dunted us could have got rid of Jones,but the owners and fans were never really on his back as they believed in what he was trying to put together,so a couple of clubs have showed that patience sometimes works.
I believe it will happen with Scotty.
0001.jpeg
:plus one:
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 23, 2019, 04:34:34 AM
Far too much knee jerk reaction on here I am afraid to say. Of course I understand the concerns, but if we are in a frying pan, let's not jump out of it into the fire.
Currently we are 3 points behind 5th place with a game in hand. This game in hand tonight is in many ways crucial. At the start of the season we would have looked at the fixture and had every confidence we have the ability to take all three points, and we still do, but expectations have natural diminished a little which is no bad thing. It may help the team and SP, it takes a bit of pressure off, and if I was him I would be currently turning over in bed working out the best way to beat Luton Town.
Of course anything other than a win will attract his critics for their weekly ritual of combusting and bursting into flames.
All in all though the average fan will peer at the League Table and feel that a win tonight will place us within 3 points of the leaders, and will be hoping for a more positive start from the front foot, and a faster tempo in build ups, but just as importantly we have to get the basics right and each player has to show more urgency than the last match, with a more improved application, and we should work harder off the ball in my opinion.
Is one of our problems attitude I ask myself.
Look what happened with Barnsley last night, fought to the last man, and deserved to win as well, they also appear to have a useful striker who scored a brace last night, and showed that given the opportunity, he will score goals at this level against good opponents like West Bromwich Albion on their own patch.
Luton will not roll over and let us tickle their tummy, but with the right commitment, we have the armoury to put their flame out early in the game, and therefore, not giving them hope when there isn't any.
Goals change games and it's time we scored a couple early on to take command and build on it.
0001.jpeg
:plus one:
Quote from: RaySmith on October 23, 2019, 06:29:50 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 23, 2019, 04:34:34 AM
Far too much knee jerk reaction on here I am afraid to say. Of course I understand the concerns, but if we are in a frying pan, let's not jump out of it into the fire.
Currently we are 3 points behind 5th place with a game in hand. This game in hand tonight is in many ways crucial. At the start of the season we would have looked at the fixture and had every confidence we have the ability to take all three points, and we still do, but expectations have natural diminished a little which is no bad thing. It may help the team and SP, it takes a bit of pressure off, and if I was him I would be currently turning over in bed working out the best way to beat Luton Town.
Of course anything other than a win will attract his critics for their weekly ritual of combusting and bursting into flames.
All in all though the average fan will peer at the League Table and feel that a win tonight will place us within 3 points of the leaders, and will be hoping for a more positive start from the front foot, and a faster tempo in build ups, but just as importantly we have to get the basics right and each player has to show more urgency than the last match, with a more improved application, and we should work harder off the ball in my opinion.
Is one of our problems attitude I ask myself.
Look what happened with Barnsley last night, fought to the last man, and deserved to win as well, they also appear to have a useful striker who scored a brace last night, and showed that given the opportunity, he will score goals at this level against good opponents like West Bromwich Albion on their own patch.
Luton will not roll over and let us tickle their tummy, but with the right commitment, we have the armoury to put their flame out early in the game, and therefore, not giving them hope when there isn't any.
Goals change games and it's time we scored a couple early on to take command and build on it.
0001.jpeg
:plus one:
Well, I hope you're right. We'll see.
What an irritating excuse for a topic. Moaning for moaning's sake.
Quote from: Fulham1959 on October 23, 2019, 09:47:04 PM
What an irritating excuse for a topic. Moaning for moaning's sake.
And you're on here moaning about people moaning.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 22, 2019, 08:36:29 AM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on October 22, 2019, 08:13:25 AM
Its the game nowadays,completely changed in the way managers are looked at.
Its all about instant success now and no patience,a manager goes at some club nearly every week now.
At this stage last season Preston were one win in eleven,bottom and fans unsettled.
The board stuck by Neil,they charged up league after Xmas and just missed out on play offs.
This season they are sitting 4th at moment.
Stoke who have just dunted us could have got rid of Jones,but the owners and fans were never really on his back as they believed in what he was trying to put together,so a couple of clubs have showed that patience sometimes works.
I believe it will happen with Scotty.
If a person trust statistics and I do, then statistics show most promoted managers start the season with at least a full season as manager of the club in the Premier League or Championship. If Parker was the right selection, then we should stick with him, cause he will have the experience next year to get promoted.
If FFC never should have chosen Parker, we should keep him until our "executive management" works out "how to choose managers" as there is no point sacking a manager at a club clueless about choosing managers (which we seem to be).
There are lies, dammed lies and statistics.
Quote from: Fulham1959 on October 23, 2019, 09:47:04 PM
What an irritating excuse for a topic. Moaning for moaning's sake.
:plus one: 0001.jpeg
Quote from: Fulham1959 on October 23, 2019, 09:47:04 PM
What an irritating excuse for a topic. Moaning for moaning's sake.
Very sad
