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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spirit of 2000 on November 05, 2019, 11:42:48 AM

Title: Seri
Post by: Spirit of 2000 on November 05, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
Tony Khan at his worst - Seri, totally unsuited to the English game & actually not that good. Galatasaray won't select him & don't want him anymore. No idea if taking his wages back (as I presume they'll paying at least a percentage) will effect us adversely with ffp. Luxury lightweight, fairly slow player - wouldn't actually have him in a championship midfield - you could never get away with him & Cairney in the same midfield anyway.

Championship Player could return to Fulham in January – Talks to commence
Player could return to Fulham in January – Talks to commence
By Nihat Emre Kocaaslan -
4th November 2019

According to TRT Spor, Galatasaray will hold talks with Fulham with regards to sending Jean Michael Seri back to the Championship club.
The Turkish champions loaned Seri in the summer for €1.5m but the Ivorian midfielder hasn't been able to establish himself as a first-team regular under Fatih Terim.
Galatasaray are looking to strengthen their squad in January after a slow start to the season and former player Henry Onyekuru could return to the club on a loan deal from AS Monaco.
Subsequently due to the foreign player quota TRT Spor report, as covered by DeMarke, that Seri could leave the Super Lig club in January and head back to Fulham.
The 28 year old is currently down the pecking order at Galatasaray, with Fatih Terim preferring to use the likes of Steven Nzonzi and Mario Lemina ahead of him.
Seri's mistakes have cost Gala some valuable points this season and he was at fault for the Turkish side's recent 1-0 loss to Real Madrid in the Champions League.
The former Nice player is under contract with Fulham until June 2022.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Chutney on November 05, 2019, 11:49:57 AM
Hopefully we are not obliged to take him back, its their fault for signing him.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Mince n Tatties on November 05, 2019, 11:54:53 AM
The biggest sucker punch of all signing.
"Fulham beat Barcelona and Chelsea to sign Seri".
And the Fulham board really thought Barca were after him...Hilarious
Great piece of work by his agent.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: gang on November 05, 2019, 11:55:51 AM
As Joca said, this is not a bus or a train station where you can just get on and off.
Galatasaray wanted him, now they have him.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Statto on November 05, 2019, 01:48:17 PM
It's in our economic interest to get him playing well, if only so we can get decent money if we sell him.

I suspect we'll only terminate the loan if we can get an alternative loan lined up, ie, at the same time as we recall him from Turkey, we announce he's going on loan to club X for the second half of the season. In that case, recalling him would be a smart move. 
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Spirit of 2000 on November 05, 2019, 01:52:30 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 05, 2019, 01:48:17 PM
It's in our economic interest to get him playing well, if only so we can get decent money if we sell him.

I suspect we'll only terminate the loan if we can get an alternative loan lined up, ie, at the same time as we recall him from Turkey, we announce he's going on loan to club X for the second half of the season. In that case, recalling him would be a smart move.


His reputation in France reasonable still I expect, so possibly a mid table ligue 1 side.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: filham on November 05, 2019, 02:19:48 PM
I actually thought Seri was a nice footballer and never quite understood why he couldn't be used to our benefit.

What we must have learned though is that there is not room for both Cairney and Seri in the same team so if Seri returns to the Cottage it can only add to Parker's problems.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: ByTheRiver on November 05, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Hopefully we can do what Man Utd did to us in January last season when we tried to return Fosu-Mensah and cut short the loan.

"Sorry, pal, a deal is a deal. See you in May".
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Bill2 on November 05, 2019, 04:50:48 PM
Quote from: ByTheRiver on November 05, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Hopefully we can do what Man Utd did to us in January last season when we tried to return Fosu-Mensah and cut short the loan.

"Sorry, pal, a deal is a deal. See you in May".
Absolutely, the man was a disaster still have nightmares over his pass to Sane in the Man City game.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Sgt Fulham on November 05, 2019, 06:34:08 PM
I don't understand what happened with Seri. He was excellent for a few games and then turned dismal. It makes no sense. I wouldn't want him back.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Penfold on November 05, 2019, 06:57:22 PM
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on November 05, 2019, 06:34:08 PM
I don't understand what happened with Seri. He was excellent for a few games and then turned dismal. It makes no sense. I wouldn't want him back.

I thought he looked really good first few games. All seemed to go pear shaped after an international break when the rumours about the deal involving him and MLM broke.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Skatzoffc on November 05, 2019, 07:34:20 PM
Surely this is a two way street for the deal and we don't have to retake him back til the end of the season.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: The Rational Fan on November 06, 2019, 03:13:56 AM
Galatasaray need to make room for another foreign player, they could definately make it worth our while to take him back as ££££££ talk.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: @jolslover on November 06, 2019, 07:34:28 AM
If Parker could get him motivated I think he'd be an asset - don't think he would fancy the Champ tho
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on November 06, 2019, 07:38:36 AM
Quote from: @jolslover on November 06, 2019, 07:34:28 AM
If Parker could get him motivated I think he'd be an asset - don't think he would fancy the Champ tho

Exactly how I see it. Cairney - Reed - Seri would be very tasty.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Whitestone on November 06, 2019, 07:55:37 AM
Cairney, Seri, Arter gives a nice balance. Not so sure that Reed does enough of the defensive, sitting role and our defence needs more cover than it is currently getting.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Spirit of 2000 on November 06, 2019, 08:11:36 AM
Quote from: Whitestone on November 06, 2019, 07:55:37 AM
Cairney, Seri, Arter gives a nice balance. Not so sure that Reed does enough of the defensive, sitting role and our defence needs more cover than it is currently getting.


Cairney & Seri could never play in same midfield - it's too lightweight even trying to incorporate TC with Cavaleiro & Knockaert or Reid, Never mind dropping out Harrison Reed or Stef Jo to incorporate that slacker Seri who beyond his 1st few games was an absolute disgrace. As others have said - tell them tough, you took him, you keep him as Man U did to us with Fosu Mensah unless an alternative destination is found to farm him off to.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: FFC1987 on November 06, 2019, 10:05:43 AM
Quote from: @jolslover on November 06, 2019, 07:34:28 AM
If Parker could get him motivated I think he'd be an asset - don't think he would fancy the Champ tho

I still have hope Seri is a baller, but come on, what league does he fancy then? he certainly didn't the EPL, one of the best leagues, and didn't the Turkish league, a much more inferior league, so what on earth is he looking for?
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Slaphead in Qatar on November 06, 2019, 12:02:35 PM
so he can't even cut it in the Turkish league. What a disgrace us paying so much for him.

At least anguisssa is getting picked reasonably regularly.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: RP24 on November 06, 2019, 04:18:37 PM
Strange that the loan round up from Fulham says he is establishing himself in the first team after another 90 minutes in their last game.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Jim© on November 06, 2019, 04:22:51 PM
I'm not sure it's entirely correct. He's played 167 minutes against Real M and PSG in the Champs league (lost both 1-0)and apart from red card suspension and injury been part of every Galatasary team.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Statto on November 06, 2019, 04:26:25 PM
Quote from: Jim© on November 06, 2019, 04:22:51 PM
I'm not sure it's entirely correct. He's played 167 minutes against Real M and PSG in the Champs league (lost both 1-0)and apart from red card suspension and injury been part of every Galatasary team.

According to transfermarkt, he's only started 4 out of 10 league games. One of those he got taken off at half-time, and in another, he got sent off. So only played 90 minutes twice. Of the remainder, he's been suspended for 2 matches, completely left out for another 2 matches, and on the bench for 2 matches.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Milo on November 06, 2019, 10:07:11 PM
Groan! We have bigger fish to fry than trying to help a man get back on his feet who clearly doesn't want to help himself.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: The Rational Fan on November 06, 2019, 10:27:18 PM
Quote from: Milo on November 06, 2019, 10:07:11 PM
Groan! We have bigger fish to fry than trying to help a man get back on his feet who clearly doesn't want to help himself.

Actually, we have bigger fish to fry now as we can still get promoted this season, but we may not have bigger fish to fry than Seri next season. If we don't get promoted Mitro will leave, plus if we don't sell Seri for £12m, then we have to sell someone apart from Mitro for £12m (probably Cairney).

Given our league position promotion will be hard this season, and next seasons promotion hopes depend on either a) Seri playing well this season with his sale funding Cairney staying or b) Cairney leaving and our promotion hopes relying on Seri being a championship superstar.

In other words, if we don't get promoted this season, we really need Seri to turn into a financial cash cow, a good player for us or we will end up in the financial situation of Middlesbough, Hull and Blackburn. Things are going to get pretty dier for Fulham very fast, as parchaste payments stop May 2021.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Jims Dentist on November 08, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on November 06, 2019, 07:38:36 AM
Quote from: @jolslover on November 06, 2019, 07:34:28 AM
If Parker could get him motivated I think he'd be an asset - don't think he would fancy the Champ tho

Exactly how I see it. Cairney - Reed - Seri would be very tasty.
Seri is not fit to lace Harrison Reed's boots.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Spirit of 2000 on November 08, 2019, 07:24:43 PM
Quote from: Jims Dentist on November 08, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on November 06, 2019, 07:38:36 AM
Quote from: @jolslover on November 06, 2019, 07:34:28 AM
If Parker could get him motivated I think he'd be an asset - don't think he would fancy the Champ tho

Exactly how I see it. Cairney - Reed - Seri would be very tasty.
Seri is not fit to lace Harrison Reed's boots.

:plus one:
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Skatzoffc on November 08, 2019, 07:48:59 PM
Quote from: Jims Dentist on November 08, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on November 06, 2019, 07:38:36 AM
Quote from: @jolslover on November 06, 2019, 07:34:28 AM
If Parker could get him motivated I think he'd be an asset - don't think he would fancy the Champ tho

Exactly how I see it. Cairney - Reed - Seri would be very tasty.
Seri is not fit to lace Harrison Reed's boots.

Agreed.
Reed is much better.


Serie is not a problem for us to sort out. We have loaned him out to offset the ffp situation.

He doesn't want to play for us and has a high opinion of himself.
No need to fuss imo.
Leave him to stew
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Woolly Mammoth on November 09, 2019, 01:58:47 AM
Seri is a waste of space, another stat error of judgement. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear, some deluded supporters must get over it.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 04:15:22 AM
The longer Fulham blames recruitment as our #1 problem, the longer Fulham "doesn't address its number one problem".

Statistics show are #1 problem is "nearly all our players have got worse since the were last in the EFL".

R   Player   Rating 17/18,   Rating 19/20, Decrease
1   Alfie Mawson    7.46   vs 6.73   -0.73 (huge decrease)
2   Harry Arter   7.31   vs 6.77   -0.54
3   Anthony Knockaert   7.60   vs 7.11   -0.49 (very large decrease)
4   Aleksandar Mitrovic   7.65   vs 7.21   -0.44
5   Marcus Bettinelli   6.79   vs 6.37   -0.42
6   Tim Ream   7.05   vs 6.65   -0.40  (large decrease)
7   Bobby De Cordova-Reid    7.11   vs 6.72   -0.39
8   Denis Odoi    7.05   vs 6.66   -0.39
9   Harrison Reed    6.86   vs 6.64   -0.22 (medium decrease)
10   Tom Cairney   7.42   vs 7.20   -0.22
11   Stefan Johansen    6.89   vs 6.73   -0.16  (small decrease)
12   Joe Bryan   7.37   vs 7.37   0.00 (the same)
13   Ivan Cavaleiro   7.32   vs 7.33   0.01 (the same)

Our players have decreased 0.34 whoscored points per game, which is difference in a player quality at Leeds vs Barnsley.

We have been blaming recruitment, but based on past performance in the championship our team should be the best ever seen.

If all our players get a lot worse since last time in the Championship, then something other than recruitment is seriously wrong.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on November 09, 2019, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: Jims Dentist on November 08, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on November 06, 2019, 07:38:36 AM
Quote from: @jolslover on November 06, 2019, 07:34:28 AM
If Parker could get him motivated I think he'd be an asset - don't think he would fancy the Champ tho

Exactly how I see it. Cairney - Reed - Seri would be very tasty.
Seri is not fit to lace Harrison Reed's boots.

Erm...
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 11:49:11 AM
Quote from: Facts Not Fiction on November 09, 2019, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: Jims Dentist on November 08, 2019, 05:01:49 PM

Seri is not fit to lace Harrison Reed's boots.

Erm...

Seri had 93.5% pass accuracy for 90 minutes, while his team got smashed 6-0 by Real Madrid.

Reed had 90.4% pass accuracy for 90 minutes, while his team got smashed 3-0 by Hull City.

Seri and Reed are not fit to have anyone tiring their laces, until they improve their defensive positioning.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Twig on November 09, 2019, 12:27:24 PM
I'm with Statto on this (and partly TRF).  We need to get Seri playing successfully so we can sell him for a decent price. Otherwise we take a big loss and that hits our balance sheet and therefore, under FFP, our ability to strengthen the squad.  A recall followed immediately by another loan, probably in France, would make sense. Seri is doing nothing to add to his value at Gala and so a loan elsewhere could be best all round.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 12:36:15 PM
Quote from: Twig on November 09, 2019, 12:27:24 PM
I'm with Statto on this (and partly TRF).  We need to get Seri playing successfully so we can sell him for a decent price. Otherwise we take a big loss and that hits our balance sheet and therefore, under FFP, our ability to strengthen the squad.  A recall followed immediately by another loan, probably in France, would make sense. Seri is doing nothing to add to his value at Gala and so a loan elsewhere could be best all round.

Thanks, I wonder if Seri could help us get promoted through the playoffs, especially by keeping Cairney fresh with more rotation. TK accidentally delaying, Hector by six months, means we have saved £76k per week which is enough to cover Seri's wages. Seri maybe keen to work hard given his best path to Premier League maybe with us or at least getting expose in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Twig on November 09, 2019, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 12:36:15 PM
Quote from: Twig on November 09, 2019, 12:27:24 PM
I'm with Statto on this (and partly TRF).  We need to get Seri playing successfully so we can sell him for a decent price. Otherwise we take a big loss and that hits our balance sheet and therefore, under FFP, our ability to strengthen the squad.  A recall followed immediately by another loan, probably in France, would make sense. Seri is doing nothing to add to his value at Gala and so a loan elsewhere could be best all round.

Thanks,
I wonder if Seri could help us get promoted through the playoffs, especially by keeping Cairney fresh with more rotation. TK accidentally delaying, Hector by six months, means we have saved £76k per week which is enough to cover Seri's wages. Seri maybe keen to work hard given his best path to Premier League maybe with us or at least getting expose in the playoffs.

I didn't think Seri showed much motivation in the Prem so I can't imagine him putting in a shift at the likes of Hull away in January!  I'd like to be proved wrong but he would have to demonstrate a massive change in attitude. I'd prefer us to find another loan opportunity for him in a league where he might thrive and enhance his value.  That said I get the point you are consistently making about the need for some rotation, sadly I think we lack the depth in several positions.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Penfold on November 09, 2019, 02:04:39 PM
Love to see how rated this mercenary is by people. He will probably do naff all until the year when his contract is about to expire in the hope some mugs will sign him.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 02:09:16 PM
Quote from: Twig on November 09, 2019, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 12:36:15 PM
Quote from: Twig on November 09, 2019, 12:27:24 PM
I'm with Statto on this (and partly TRF).  We need to get Seri playing successfully so we can sell him for a decent price. Otherwise we take a big loss and that hits our balance sheet and therefore, under FFP, our ability to strengthen the squad.  A recall followed immediately by another loan, probably in France, would make sense. Seri is doing nothing to add to his value at Gala and so a loan elsewhere could be best all round.

Thanks,
I wonder if Seri could help us get promoted through the playoffs, especially by keeping Cairney fresh with more rotation. TK accidentally delaying, Hector by six months, means we have saved £76k per week which is enough to cover Seri's wages. Seri maybe keen to work hard given his best path to Premier League maybe with us or at least getting expose in the playoffs.

I didn't think Seri showed much motivation in the Prem so I can't imagine him putting in a shift at the likes of Hull away in January!  I'd like to be proved wrong but he would have to demonstrate a massive change in attitude. I'd prefer us to find another loan opportunity for him in a league where he might thrive and enhance his value.  That said I get the point you are consistently making about the need for some rotation, sadly I think we lack the depth in several positions.

I am sure if we try some of the reserve players many will surprise us, some in a good way and others will be disappointing. We need to play these players before the summer transfer window so we pick up the biggest gaps in the squad. Still think Rodak, Christie and MLM may prove to be useful players, although they need to play more for me to be confident as I haven't yet seen proof.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Skatzoffc on November 09, 2019, 02:35:36 PM
I thought the whole idea of loaning him out is to offset FFP.

The idea he will suddenly start playing for us in the championship, when he didn't give a rat's proverbial in the EPL, is deluded imo.

Let him stew in no-mans land.
It is not our job to save his career at the expense of a player who want's to play well for this club!

Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Twig on November 09, 2019, 02:43:59 PM
Quote from: Skatzoffc on November 09, 2019, 02:35:36 PM
I thought the whole idea of loaning him out is to offset FFP.

The idea he will suddenly start playing for us in the championship, when he didn't give a rat's proverbial in the EPL, is deluded imo.

Let him stew in no-mans land.
It is not our job to save his career at the expense of a player who want's to play well for this club!


Don't disagree.  We just need to find a way to make some money when we offload him. A loan to a league where he might show a bit of form would polish his transfer value and benefit FFC accordingly.  Other than that I will be pleased to get rid.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Woolly Mammoth on November 09, 2019, 02:59:19 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 04:15:22 AM
The longer Fulham blames recruitment as our #1 problem, the longer Fulham "doesn't address its number one problem".

Statistics show are #1 problem is "nearly all our players have got worse since the were last in the EFL".

R   Player   Rating 17/18,   Rating 19/20, Decrease
1   Alfie Mawson    7.46   vs 6.73   -0.73 (huge decrease)
2   Harry Arter   7.31   vs 6.77   -0.54
3   Anthony Knockaert   7.60   vs 7.11   -0.49 (very large decrease)
4   Aleksandar Mitrovic   7.65   vs 7.21   -0.44
5   Marcus Bettinelli   6.79   vs 6.37   -0.42
6   Tim Ream   7.05   vs 6.65   -0.40  (large decrease)
7   Bobby De Cordova-Reid    7.11   vs 6.72   -0.39
8   Denis Odoi    7.05   vs 6.66   -0.39
9   Harrison Reed    6.86   vs 6.64   -0.22 (medium decrease)
10   Tom Cairney   7.42   vs 7.20   -0.22
11   Stefan Johansen    6.89   vs 6.73   -0.16  (small decrease)
12   Joe Bryan   7.37   vs 7.37   0.00 (the same)
13   Ivan Cavaleiro   7.32   vs 7.33   0.01 (the same)

Our players have decreased 0.34 whoscored points per game, which is difference in a player quality at Leeds vs Barnsley.

We have been blaming recruitment, but based on past performance in the championship our team should be the best ever seen.

If all our players get a lot worse since last time in the Championship, then something other than recruitment is seriously wrong.

What is seriously wrong is staring you in the Boat Race. Stats + our Crack Recruitment Unit = mediocrity.
That is why we are where we are and so many signings over a period of time have been failures, whether they  have cost a small fortune, or have cost 2 sheep and a goat, or are loans or free transfers, or big time charlie's, so many of these stats based signings have been poor characters, not a players player.
I am surprised you are surprised, but then again, maybe I shouldn't be. We do not appear at the moment to have players with enough desire, appetite and hunger, amongst other reasons. But I should not have to tell you that anyway, you can see that yourself, your expectations are too high, plus we are playing round pegs in square holes because of poor recruitment, but once again you should know that anyway. Perhaps if you ceased from waffling and fuffing around with stats and look at the realist side of this issue, which is scoring goals an not conceding goals, and how easy it is to work hard on and off the ball in the real football world.
If a player is having a bad game, he can still run around and bust a gut. Passing 5 yard balls to feet side ways at a slow tempo will not bring very much success in the Championship, but sweating blood with fire in your belly will give you a much better chance.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Spirit of 2000 on November 09, 2019, 08:29:11 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 09, 2019, 02:59:19 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 04:15:22 AM
The longer Fulham blames recruitment as our #1 problem, the longer Fulham "doesn't address its number one problem".

Statistics show are #1 problem is "nearly all our players have got worse since the were last in the EFL".

R   Player   Rating 17/18,   Rating 19/20, Decrease
1   Alfie Mawson    7.46   vs 6.73   -0.73 (huge decrease)
2   Harry Arter   7.31   vs 6.77   -0.54
3   Anthony Knockaert   7.60   vs 7.11   -0.49 (very large decrease)
4   Aleksandar Mitrovic   7.65   vs 7.21   -0.44
5   Marcus Bettinelli   6.79   vs 6.37   -0.42
6   Tim Ream   7.05   vs 6.65   -0.40  (large decrease)
7   Bobby De Cordova-Reid    7.11   vs 6.72   -0.39
8   Denis Odoi    7.05   vs 6.66   -0.39
9   Harrison Reed    6.86   vs 6.64   -0.22 (medium decrease)
10   Tom Cairney   7.42   vs 7.20   -0.22
11   Stefan Johansen    6.89   vs 6.73   -0.16  (small decrease)
12   Joe Bryan   7.37   vs 7.37   0.00 (the same)
13   Ivan Cavaleiro   7.32   vs 7.33   0.01 (the same)

Our players have decreased 0.34 whoscored points per game, which is difference in a player quality at Leeds vs Barnsley.

We have been blaming recruitment, but based on past performance in the championship our team should be the best ever seen.

If all our players get a lot worse since last time in the Championship, then something other than recruitment is seriously wrong.

What is seriously wrong is staring you in the Boat Race. Stats + our Crack Recruitment Unit = mediocrity.
That is why we are where we are and so many signings over a period of time have been failures, whether they  have cost a small fortune, or have cost 2 sheep and a goat, or are loans or free transfers, or big time charlie's, so many of these stats based signings have been poor characters, not a players player.
I am surprised you are surprised, but then again, maybe I shouldn't be. We do not appear at the moment to have players with enough desire, appetite and hunger, amongst other reasons. But I should not have to tell you that anyway, you can see that yourself, your expectations are too high, plus we are playing round pegs in square holes because of poor recruitment, but once again you should know that anyway. Perhaps if you ceased from waffling and fuffing around with stats and look at the realist side of this issue, which is scoring goals an not conceding goals, and how easy it is to work hard on and off the ball in the real football world.
If a player is having a bad game, he can still run around and bust a gut. Passing 5 yard balls to feet side ways at a slow tempo will not bring very much success in the Championship, but sweating blood with fire in your belly will give you a much better chance.

Bang on the money Wooly. Seri is an epitome of what can go wrong with stat based signings. The personality and character of a player is often much more important than his pass completion %
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: b+w geezer on November 09, 2019, 11:08:52 PM
The two responses to The Rational Fan there have, seems to me, missed his point. Admittedly he wasn't talking about Seri, so that may explain it.   

The complaints made by Woolly Mammouth are highly applicable to Seri and the summer 2018 recruitment in general -- too much regard for theory and too little for how they would suit the situation they would actually find themselves in. They mostly didn't !

But the caravan has moved on, as The Rational Fan is surely trying to point out.  Most of the players here NOW (and on hiis list) have already done well in this very division, in many cases for this very club.  That's because THIS summer's recruitment was less speculative, more down-to-earth, prioritising people who had already been there, done that, in the Championship. And mostly known to work hard too. No leaps into the unknown this time.

And yet (TRF's point) most of them are performing individually at well below how they were performing when last in The Championship.  Our own eyes tell us that, so the supporting numbers don't really surprise, do they?

The figures he is quoting are admittedly impressions -- a (yes) statistical website gives them marks every match. And of course these are imperfect and can be queried, BUT apples are being compared with apples here -- how the same system has rated the same players over many matches in the same division, then and now.

If almost all concerned are doing notably worse now then previously, then I agree that that is worth pointing out. I agree also that -- unlike this time last year -- the reasons are less obviously connected with recruitment as such.

Title: Re: Seri
Post by: MJG on November 10, 2019, 06:46:53 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 04:15:22 AM
The longer Fulham blames recruitment as our #1 problem, the longer Fulham "doesn't address its number one problem".

Statistics show are #1 problem is "nearly all our players have got worse since the were last in the EFL".

R   Player   Rating 17/18,   Rating 19/20, Decrease
1   Alfie Mawson    7.46   vs 6.73   -0.73 (huge decrease)
2   Harry Arter   7.31   vs 6.77   -0.54
3   Anthony Knockaert   7.60   vs 7.11   -0.49 (very large decrease)
4   Aleksandar Mitrovic   7.65   vs 7.21   -0.44
5   Marcus Bettinelli   6.79   vs 6.37   -0.42
6   Tim Ream   7.05   vs 6.65   -0.40  (large decrease)
7   Bobby De Cordova-Reid    7.11   vs 6.72   -0.39
8   Denis Odoi    7.05   vs 6.66   -0.39
9   Harrison Reed    6.86   vs 6.64   -0.22 (medium decrease)
10   Tom Cairney   7.42   vs 7.20   -0.22
11   Stefan Johansen    6.89   vs 6.73   -0.16  (small decrease)
12   Joe Bryan   7.37   vs 7.37   0.00 (the same)
13   Ivan Cavaleiro   7.32   vs 7.33   0.01 (the same)

Our players have decreased 0.34 whoscored points per game, which is difference in a player quality at Leeds vs Barnsley.

We have been blaming recruitment, but based on past performance in the championship our team should be the best ever seen.

If all our players get a lot worse since last time in the Championship, then something other than recruitment is seriously wrong.
the problem with this comparison as I pointed out last time you did it is the 17/18 figures are full season and this year is one third.
Our players in that season improved second half of season and I would suspect their scores were lower than they are now.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: Twig on November 10, 2019, 08:42:31 AM
Quote from: MJG on November 10, 2019, 06:46:53 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 09, 2019, 04:15:22 AM
The longer Fulham blames recruitment as our #1 problem, the longer Fulham "doesn't address its number one problem".

Statistics show are #1 problem is "nearly all our players have got worse since the were last in the EFL".

R   Player   Rating 17/18,   Rating 19/20, Decrease
1   Alfie Mawson    7.46   vs 6.73   -0.73 (huge decrease)
2   Harry Arter   7.31   vs 6.77   -0.54
3   Anthony Knockaert   7.60   vs 7.11   -0.49 (very large decrease)
4   Aleksandar Mitrovic   7.65   vs 7.21   -0.44
5   Marcus Bettinelli   6.79   vs 6.37   -0.42
6   Tim Ream   7.05   vs 6.65   -0.40  (large decrease)
7   Bobby De Cordova-Reid    7.11   vs 6.72   -0.39
8   Denis Odoi    7.05   vs 6.66   -0.39
9   Harrison Reed    6.86   vs 6.64   -0.22 (medium decrease)
10   Tom Cairney   7.42   vs 7.20   -0.22
11   Stefan Johansen    6.89   vs 6.73   -0.16  (small decrease)
12   Joe Bryan   7.37   vs 7.37   0.00 (the same)
13   Ivan Cavaleiro   7.32   vs 7.33   0.01 (the same)

Our players have decreased 0.34 whoscored points per game, which is difference in a player quality at Leeds vs Barnsley.

We have been blaming recruitment, but based on past performance in the championship our team should be the best ever seen.

If all our players get a lot worse since last time in the Championship, then something other than recruitment is seriously wrong.
the problem with this comparison as I pointed out last time you did it is the 17/18 figures are full season and this year is one third.
Our players in that season improved second half of season and I would suspect their scores were lower than they are now.

It will be interesting to see this analysis repeated nearer to the season end. If the stats are similar then we really do have to start to take notice. We used to be a club where players rebuilt their careers or kicked on, if we are becoming the opposite then that is cause for serious concern.
Title: Re: Seri
Post by: b+w geezer on November 10, 2019, 12:09:06 PM
Quote from: Twig on November 10, 2019, 08:42:31 AM
It will be interesting to see this analysis repeated nearer to the season end. If the stats are similar then we really do have to start to take notice.
Yes, you have taken MJG's point there and fair enough.
Quote from: Twig on November 10, 2019, 08:42:31 AM
We used to be a club where players rebuilt their careers or kicked on, if we are becoming the opposite then that is cause for serious concern.
If it proves that way, then yes.

However, what "used to be" is more mixed than you imply. Very true under e.g. Tigana and Hodgson, and a mark of their quality.  But also many seasons when imports proved a big disappointment and the team less than the sum of its parts.

Under multiple regimes (coaching and recruitment) we've been the opposite of career rebuilding for most Centre-backs who've arrived here this decade. Mawson is the latest, most expensive case, of quite a few. Hopefully Hector proves an exception.