Going into not only the busiest period of the season but one of the most important with the next four games, having the strongest squad possible could be decisive.
Wondered if anyone have any decisive information on the injuries we have...
on the treatment table we have
Bobby Decordova-Reid (short term?)
Steven Sessegnon (light training?)
Harrison Reed (?)
Harry Arter (been out a while now?)
Maxime Le Marchand (hasn't featured since birmingham?)
Well there is a week on the treatment table before the Bristol game so maybe one or two will be back by Saturday.
It will of course be kept secret so we will have to wait until 2pm Saturday for news.
Harry Arter is reported to be back in training and Steven Sess turned out for the U23s over the weekend.
I think he played about 60 minutes.
I forgot to mention that MLM was reported to have a longer term hamstring injury so he will be out for some time.
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on December 01, 2019, 12:40:02 PM
I forgot to mention that MLM was reported to have a longer term hamstring injury so he will be out for some time.
At least there is some good news then
Quote from: sunburywhite on December 01, 2019, 01:52:29 PM
Quote from: Stoneleigh Loyalist on December 01, 2019, 12:40:02 PM
I forgot to mention that MLM was reported to have a longer term hamstring injury so he will be out for some time.
At least there is some good news then
I feel bad but these are my thoughts exactly
The only starter I want back is Bobby to take Onomah's spot. Other than that...the team looks set up for Bristol.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 01, 2019, 09:06:34 PM
The only starter I want back is Bobby to take Onomah's spot. Other than that...the team looks set up for Bristol.
Stefjo knees cannot survive much longer without a rest, skipping Norway internationals helped but Reed or Arter need to be back soon.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 01, 2019, 09:30:35 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 01, 2019, 09:06:34 PM
The only starter I want back is Bobby to take Onomah's spot. Other than that...the team looks set up for Bristol.
Stefjo knees cannot survive much longer without a rest, skipping Norway internationals helped but Reed or Arter need to be back soon.
I wouldn't start either over Stefjo.
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Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 01, 2019, 10:11:36 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 01, 2019, 09:30:35 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 01, 2019, 09:06:34 PM
The only starter I want back is Bobby to take Onomah's spot. Other than that...the team looks set up for Bristol.
Stefjo knees cannot survive much longer without a rest, skipping Norway internationals helped but Reed or Arter need to be back soon.
I wouldn't start either over Stefjo.
Crazy talk, Norway's doctors want Stefjo to rest so he can play Euros in June 2020, so I assume if he doesn't rest soon then he won't be available for the end of the season including playoffs in May 2020.
If any decent option like Arter is available, then resting Stefjo is essential. My guess is Parker will rest Stefjo as soon as the Leeds game is played no matter what his midfield options (eg Christie, KMac or O'Riley).
Bobby Reid hopefully back this week
Arter & Reed seem close to returns although I'm happy with our midfield 2. Steven Sess played for u23s so another game with them maybe & he should be back available for us
MLM injured? Hardly bad news
Sounds as if things are looking up on the injury front but the need to rest Johansen is a shame because his partnership with Cairney has looked so good in recent matches. Not sure that Reed or Arter will be so good.
With MLM probably out longer term if Bryan gets injured or suspended who do we play left back? Odoi or Christie seem to be the only possibilities with Ream having to cover the CB position.
Much like whenever a key player is out, we've had squad members step up. With Johanson needing a rest for both international, and our very long season, I'm confident in this squad that we have extremely capable players to come in and stake a claim for their place in the team. Johanson is awesome at the moment, but Arter and Reed are more than capable. Not to mention Reid back in too. We're looking very competitive and it's only a good sign.
Hopefully we will have a couple of players back soon.
Do we really know that Johansen needs a rest? Didn't he receive some kind of treatment or minor surgery during the international break? Wasn't that the reason he didn't play for Norway? And what's this nonsense about "Norway's doctors want...". Does anyone on this forum know what "Norway's doctors" want? I don't think so. If anything Norway should want him match fit, not rested until the Euros.
MLM probably long term injury but I don't see the problem? If he was our only option at LB everyone would be crying out for the tea lady instead. We've got Odoi and S.Sess as backup on LB. Odoi is a far better player than MLM and probably Sess too. Not so sure about Christie on LB though.. isn't he very much RB/RW only?
Hopefully Bobby Reid is back next week to replace Onomah so we can have the following;
Rodak
Odoi--Mawson--Ream--Bryan
StefJo--Cairney
Kamara--Reid--Cavaleiro
Mitro
This line up seems to be working at the moment and we have Reed/Arter (or both) off the bench in the later stages.
When training, I wonder if they ever try Christie RB and Odoi in front of the back 4 ?
Quote from: Baszab on December 02, 2019, 01:49:17 PM
When training, I wonder if they ever try Christie RB and Odoi in front of the back 4 ?
Or the opposite. Didn't Christie play a blinder for Ireland at DM a couple of months ago?
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on December 02, 2019, 11:47:50 AM
Hopefully we will have a couple of players back soon.
Do we really know that Johansen needs a rest? Didn't he receive some kind of treatment or minor surgery during the international break? Wasn't that the reason he didn't play for Norway? And what's this nonsense about "Norway's doctors want...". Does anyone on this forum know what "Norway's doctors" want? I don't think so. If anything Norway should want him match fit, not rested until the Euros.
MLM probably long term injury but I don't see the problem? If he was our only option at LB everyone would be crying out for the tea lady instead. We've got Odoi and S.Sess as backup on LB. Odoi is a far better player than MLM and probably Sess too. Not so sure about Christie on LB though.. isn't he very much RB/RW only?
:plus one:
The StefJo comments seem mostly fabricated out of limited information. As far as I am aware we just know that he had some sort of problem which meant that he declined to play for Norway (but could still play for Fulham). That's basically it. It should also be noted that Norway were basically already out of the running for the automatic places for the Euros (needing Sweden to lose to Romania and drop points to Faroe Islands) and also had two really easy games that they would most likely win without Johansen.
Probably a no-brainer at the time, but doesn't in any way have to mean that he cannot keep on playing for us now. Unless someone has more information that is.
Very much how I understand it Sting. We always see these things about "his knees have gone", "wont survive without a rest" etc etc but unless there is true inside info, it's purely speculation.
Quote from: Sting of the North on December 02, 2019, 02:48:36 PM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on December 02, 2019, 11:47:50 AM
Hopefully we will have a couple of players back soon.
Do we really know that Johansen needs a rest? Didn't he receive some kind of treatment or minor surgery during the international break? Wasn't that the reason he didn't play for Norway? And what's this nonsense about "Norway's doctors want...". Does anyone on this forum know what "Norway's doctors" want? I don't think so. If anything Norway should want him match fit, not rested until the Euros.
MLM probably long term injury but I don't see the problem? If he was our only option at LB everyone would be crying out for the tea lady instead. We've got Odoi and S.Sess as backup on LB. Odoi is a far better player than MLM and probably Sess too. Not so sure about Christie on LB though.. isn't he very much RB/RW only?
:plus one:
The StefJo comments seem mostly fabricated out of limited information. As far as I am aware we just know that he had some sort of problem which meant that he declined to play for Norway (but could still play for Fulham). That's basically it. It should also be noted that Norway were basically already out of the running for the automatic places for the Euros (needing Sweden to lose to Romania and drop points to Faroe Islands) and also had two really easy games that they would most likely win without Johansen.
Probably a no-brainer at the time, but doesn't in any way have to mean that he cannot keep on playing for us now. Unless someone has more information that is.
FWIW here's the Norwegian Team Manager's reported assessment of the situation a few weeks ago:Fulham's Stefan Johansen was included in Lars Lagerbäck's Norway squad for the fixtures against Faroe Islands
(15 Nov) and Malta
(18 Nov), but was forced to withdraw last Friday due to injury.
A day later, the midfielder played the entire match for the Cottagers during their 1-0 win over Birmingham City and this left Lagerbäck's assistant Per Joar Hansen surprised.
Hansen had stressed he is unaware why the 28-year-old featured for his club, and said only the Championship side will be able to provide an explanation.
A potential conflict between club and country over player's fitness has now been ruled out after Lagerbäck provided a detailed explanation about Johansen's injury situation.
"For me, there is no fuss. Definitely not. Stefan has a knee problem that needs to be treated medically," the Norway boss told TV2.
"He has been able to play with pain, so the injury would not worsen, but he needs to get treatment and then rest for a few weeks, so for me it is quite natural.
"Last time I talked to Stefan he did not know that he was going to play this weekend, but I have full understanding and respect that the manager considers it best to let him play in the situation they are in. I have full understanding of that decision."
Quote from: Southcoastffc on December 02, 2019, 04:18:43 PM
FWIW here's the Norwegian Team Manager's reported assessment of the situation a few weeks ago:
Fulham's Stefan Johansen was included in Lars Lagerbäck's Norway squad for the fixtures against Faroe Islands (15 Nov) and Malta (18 Nov), but was forced to withdraw last Friday due to injury.
A day later, the midfielder played the entire match for the Cottagers during their 1-0 win over Birmingham City and this left Lagerbäck's assistant Per Joar Hansen surprised.
Hansen had stressed he is unaware why the 28-year-old featured for his club, and said only the Championship side will be able to provide an explanation.
A potential conflict between club and country over player's fitness has now been ruled out after Lagerbäck provided a detailed explanation about Johansen's injury situation.
"For me, there is no fuss. Definitely not. Stefan has a knee problem that needs to be treated medically," the Norway boss told TV2.
"He has been able to play with pain, so the injury would not worsen, but he needs to get treatment and then rest for a few weeks, so for me it is quite natural.
"Last time I talked to Stefan he did not know that he was going to play this weekend, but I have full understanding and respect that the manager considers it best to let him play in the situation they are in. I have full understanding of that decision."
Yep, that's the only thing I have really seen on this. So we only know that there was some sort of problem, that may or may not still be a problem. It allegedly would not get worse by playing, and was more of a pain management situation. He has been able to play several 90 minute games since, so presumably they do not think that it is a risk of further damage. They'll rest him of course if they believe it is beneficial for him and the club. If they don't, it is likely not because they are crazy, but because they deem it not necessary.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 01, 2019, 09:06:34 PM
The only starter I want back is Bobby to take Onomah's spot. Other than that...the team looks set up for Bristol.
Yep. Reid needs to be starting more games. or, if on bench, coming in for bigger chunks of time. I see Reid as a catalyst and a player that has already got FFC more up tempo in a few games so far.
Reid back is the one change I feel essential as we hit a tough run of games. If, and it is if, Stef Jo needs rest then we have very decent cover.
Quote from: Sting of the North on December 02, 2019, 04:44:06 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on December 02, 2019, 04:18:43 PM
FWIW here's the Norwegian Team Manager's reported assessment of the situation a few weeks ago:
Fulham's Stefan Johansen was included in Lars Lagerbäck's Norway squad for the fixtures against Faroe Islands (15 Nov) and Malta (18 Nov), but was forced to withdraw last Friday due to injury.
A day later, the midfielder played the entire match for the Cottagers during their 1-0 win over Birmingham City and this left Lagerbäck's assistant Per Joar Hansen surprised.
Hansen had stressed he is unaware why the 28-year-old featured for his club, and said only the Championship side will be able to provide an explanation.
A potential conflict between club and country over player's fitness has now been ruled out after Lagerbäck provided a detailed explanation about Johansen's injury situation.
"For me, there is no fuss. Definitely not. Stefan has a knee problem that needs to be treated medically," the Norway boss told TV2.
"He has been able to play with pain, so the injury would not worsen, but he needs to get treatment and then rest for a few weeks, so for me it is quite natural.
"Last time I talked to Stefan he did not know that he was going to play this weekend, but I have full understanding and respect that the manager considers it best to let him play in the situation they are in. I have full understanding of that decision."
Yep, that's the only thing I have really seen on this. So we only know that there was some sort of problem, that may or may not still be a problem. It allegedly would not get worse by playing, and was more of a pain management situation. He has been able to play several 90 minute games since, so presumably they do not think that it is a risk of further damage. They'll rest him of course if they believe it is beneficial for him and the club. If they don't, it is likely not because they are crazy, but because they deem it not necessary.
We don't know what it is, although sounds like runners knee, but we do know "he needs to get treatment and then rest for a few weeks" and 12 days is unlikely not enough. If he keeps playing that required rest will get longer and longer, but Scott Parker is probably prepared to play him the next four games and rest him him a little longer when Arter and Reed are back.
Again, you take something we do have some limited information on and extend it to include something we don't know. More to the point, we don't know that the required rest will get longer and longer if he keeps playing.
Also, "a few weeks" is a rather vague statement, and it was issued by Lagerbäck, so the details are likely second hand information at best. The same statement also said that the injury would not get worse by playing, which is contrary to your assumption.
Again, he will surely be rested if there is a deemed need for it, but as long as they don't indicate otherwise I will assume he is available.
Quote from: Sting of the North on December 03, 2019, 09:05:28 AM
Again, you take something we do have some limited information on and extend it to include something we don't know. More to the point, we don't know that the required rest will get longer and longer if he keeps playing.
Also, "a few weeks" is a rather vague statement, and it was issued by Lagerbäck, so the details are likely second hand information at best. The same statement also said that the injury would not get worse by playing, which is contrary to your assumption.
Again, he will surely be rested if there is a deemed need for it, but as long as they don't indicate otherwise I will assume he is available.
You're correct I don't know what it is and I'm not in the medical field but many of my family are. What I do know is it is a knee condition and there only a limited number that fits his symptoms, it is unlikely to be something rare because doctors normally cautiously rest rare conditions. So, I'd take a guess (just a guess) that its either Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome (runner knee) or Patellar tendinitis, if so StefJo will need a rest to make it through the rest of the season. Even if its another knee condition, it's still high probable to be treated the same way.
Knee problems are well known to be tricky to deal with but in the case of Johansen I don't think either club or country would take undue risks. It's down to game management and dealing with the root cause of the problem causing the pain rather like the way Cairney and Mawson have been nursed back to better fitness levels. None of these players are easily replaced by others - Reed has played well but isn't yet consistent enough, and Arter hasn't impressed me as much as I hoped he might do. It is also pertinent to listen to what Sean Davis has to say about playing games close together on the Monday Night Fix video discussed elsewhere for an idea about how players feel about match time versus recovery time.
Stefan Johansen is a classy player who makes it possible for Cairney to up his level a notch or three and I suspect Parker knows that too.
http://sportwitness.co.uk/surprising-us-national-team-coach-fulhams-decision-play-injured-player-birmingham-win/
The English club's decision to field the player hasn't gone down well in Norway, with Lagerbäck's assistant Per Joar Hansen left surprised. Per Joar Hansen told TV2 "He has a swelling in his knee. Now we have realised that he played today. The reason he reported injured was that he was initially going to use the international break to get rid of that swelling..... It is only the club that can answer why he played, but it was surprising to us that he played today."
Norway's physiotherapist Thomas Ødegaard explains Johansen's omission from the national team was a collective decision taken to allow him recover during the international break"....."It is the best for him during this period when he has struggled with a knee that needs rest. It will benefit Johansen, Fulham and the national team in the future, so this is a decision everyone agrees on."
Norway believe that if Stefjo doesn't get a long enough break then it will hurt the the national team in the future which at its earliest 20th March 2020.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 04, 2019, 09:34:06 AM
http://sportwitness.co.uk/surprising-us-national-team-coach-fulhams-decision-play-injured-player-birmingham-win/
The English club's decision to field the player hasn't gone down well in Norway, with Lagerbäck's assistant Per Joar Hansen left surprised. Per Joar Hansen told TV2 "He has a swelling in his knee. Now we have realised that he played today. The reason he reported injured was that he was initially going to use the international break to get rid of that swelling..... It is only the club that can answer why he played, but it was surprising to us that he played today."
Norway's physiotherapist Thomas Ødegaard explains Johansen's omission from the national team was a collective decision taken to allow him recover during the international break"....."It is the best for him during this period when he has struggled with a knee that needs rest. It will benefit Johansen, Fulham and the national team in the future, so this is a decision everyone agrees on."
I'm not sure what they're moaning about (if indeed they are).
Both say that he needed to rest, and I quote the physio "to allow him recover during the international break" or to quote the assistant manager "he was initially going to use the international break to get rid of that swelling".
They do realise that he DID use the break to recover and get rid of the swelling?!?? Very odd, perhaps lost in translation.
Quote from: Jim© on December 04, 2019, 09:41:50 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 04, 2019, 09:34:06 AM
http://sportwitness.co.uk/surprising-us-national-team-coach-fulhams-decision-play-injured-player-birmingham-win/
The English club's decision to field the player hasn't gone down well in Norway, with Lagerbäck's assistant Per Joar Hansen left surprised. Per Joar Hansen told TV2 "He has a swelling in his knee. Now we have realised that he played today. The reason he reported injured was that he was initially going to use the international break to get rid of that swelling..... It is only the club that can answer why he played, but it was surprising to us that he played today."
Norway's physiotherapist Thomas Ødegaard explains Johansen's omission from the national team was a collective decision taken to allow him recover during the international break"....."It is the best for him during this period when he has struggled with a knee that needs rest. It will benefit Johansen, Fulham and the national team in the future, so this is a decision everyone agrees on."
I'm not sure what they're moaning about (if indeed they are).
Both say that he needed to rest, and I quote the physio "to allow him recover during the international break" or to quote the assistant manager "he was initially going to use the international break to get rid of that swelling".
They do realise that he DID use the break to recover and get rid of the swelling?!?? Very odd, perhaps lost in translation.
Yep, agree with this completely. A nonsensical story if its been translated correctly.
It is the cause of the swelling that is what needs to be considered not the swelling itself. The Birmingham game, as you correctly state, was nothing to do with Norway and if the knee did swell up as a result of playing then Johansen had the whole break to help him to get the swelling down.
Quote from: Jim© on December 04, 2019, 09:41:50 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 04, 2019, 09:34:06 AM
http://sportwitness.co.uk/surprising-us-national-team-coach-fulhams-decision-play-injured-player-birmingham-win/
The English club's decision to field the player hasn't gone down well in Norway, with Lagerbäck's assistant Per Joar Hansen left surprised. Per Joar Hansen told TV2 "He has a swelling in his knee. Now we have realised that he played today. The reason he reported injured was that he was initially going to use the international break to get rid of that swelling..... It is only the club that can answer why he played, but it was surprising to us that he played today."
Norway's physiotherapist Thomas Ødegaard explains Johansen's omission from the national team was a collective decision taken to allow him recover during the international break"....."It is the best for him during this period when he has struggled with a knee that needs rest. It will benefit Johansen, Fulham and the national team in the future, so this is a decision everyone agrees on."
I'm not sure what they're moaning about (if indeed they are).
Both say that he needed to rest, and I quote the physio "to allow him recover during the international break" or to quote the assistant manager "he was initially going to use the international break to get rid of that swelling".
They do realise that he DID use the break to recover and get rid of the swelling?!?? Very odd, perhaps lost in translation.
They are moaning, because they understand his knee condition (probably runner knee) and want to pressure Fulham into resting Stefjo's knee as early and as long as possible, so that his knee is in peak condition when he plays for the national team in March and June.
"For me, there is no fuss. Definitely not. Stefan has a knee problem that needs to be treated medically... He has been able to play with pain, so the injury would not worsen, but he needs to get treatment and then rest for a few weeks, so for me it is quite natural."
Maybe I have interpreted this completely differently to everyone else.
But the Norway manager clearly says "the injury would not worsen" with playing, which would mean whether Johansen is resting or playing at this time makes no difference (except, it seems, that playing causes mild pain and swelling).
He says it "needs to be treated... THEN rest for a few weeks."
Seems to me he's saying Johansen needs a minor op (what else could he mean by "treated" - cheese?!) at some stage then a few weeks' rest after the op.
That's not based on any medical knowledge, just what the Norway manager is actually saying.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 04, 2019, 09:34:06 AM
http://sportwitness.co.uk/surprising-us-national-team-coach-fulhams-decision-play-injured-player-birmingham-win/
The English club's decision to field the player hasn't gone down well in Norway, with Lagerbäck's assistant Per Joar Hansen left surprised. Per Joar Hansen told TV2 "He has a swelling in his knee. Now we have realised that he played today. The reason he reported injured was that he was initially going to use the international break to get rid of that swelling..... It is only the club that can answer why he played, but it was surprising to us that he played today."
Norway's physiotherapist Thomas Ødegaard explains Johansen's omission from the national team was a collective decision taken to allow him recover during the international break"....."It is the best for him during this period when he has struggled with a knee that needs rest. It will benefit Johansen, Fulham and the national team in the future, so this is a decision everyone agrees on."
Norway believe that if Stefjo doesn't get a long enough break then it will hurt the the national team in the future which at its earliest 20th March 2020.
The only one surprised as far as we know seem to have been Norway's assistant manager who seem to lack communication with the manager who apparently wasn't surprised according to later reports. Also, the above does not state what you claim. It states that he was given time to recover during the international break, which was exactly what happened. For all we know, that was "a long enough break" to benefit everyone in the future. It doesn't state that Norway believe that a lack of additional breaks will hurt the national team in the future.
This is to me clearly a case of knowing that Johansen has an issue, and breaks wherever possible may benefit everyone. He would in my opinion most likely have played for Norway as well if he was actually needed. But since Norway was already basically out of the running for an automatic spot in the Euro's, and Norway had two easy games anyway, they didn't see the need for him to play two 'meaningless' games.
I don't understand the need to invent anything more from this. There might be something, but as far as I know we have no information to that extent.
