Friends of Fulham

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jarv on December 02, 2019, 01:24:36 PM

Title: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: jarv on December 02, 2019, 01:24:36 PM
Matt Targett was critical to Fulham style under Slav and helping Sess become the player he is. (just saying) I have watched Villa a few times on tv and he has been outstanding for them, both defending and attacking.What a huge mistake letting him go and not meeting the asking price.  Hindsight maybe but would any other team get promotion and trash the defence by letting 2 excellent full backs go elsewhere. :Get Coat gif:
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Fulham 442 on December 02, 2019, 01:31:10 PM
I don't think we could agree on a price initially.  They came back to us but by then we'd already signed Bryan. I'm a also a huge fan of Targett. He was great in our promotion season.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Jim© on December 02, 2019, 01:35:12 PM
Freddo was gone by Jan, when promotion looked far from secure/possible.
Targett was, for me nowhere near a £15m player. Or a £10m player. Or even £5m.
I'd say that Bryan is as good (though a few lapses lately have almost been costly) and much better in the air than Targett (who got targeted for that weakness when playing for us and we conceded a few goals because of it).
Wish him well, but pretty glad we didn't go for him.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: toshes mate on December 02, 2019, 01:38:56 PM
Absolutely agree with OP that the senior executives at the Club really messed up on a number of transfers and contract deals involving outstanding fullbacks that have slipped through our fingers.  I suspect they were all a case of the grass is greener over the fence rather than in the field in which you are already standing.  As I have said many times we should have signed both Bryan and Targett, in preference to the detritus that saw big money change hands.  It is, IMO, the situation always encountered when you know the price of everything and the value of nothing which is a common statistician's nightmare because value and quality cannot be digitised.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Statto on December 02, 2019, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: Jim© on December 02, 2019, 01:35:12 PM
Targett was, for me nowhere near a £15m player. Or a £10m player. Or even £5m.
I'd say that Bryan is as good (though a few lapses lately have almost been costly) and much better in the air than Targett (who got targeted for that weakness when playing for us and we conceded a few goals because of it).

I have a similar view... although I'm sorry but Bryan is still awful in the air

The way I see it, Bryan was a £5/6m player and the asking price was £6m. Targett was a £5/6m player but the asking price was £20m... or £15m at the last minute. So Bryan was much better value for money.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: charlieFFC on December 02, 2019, 02:56:58 PM
Just keep the faith in Bryan and dont worry about Targett.

Worry about CB and RB positions - especially if we go up.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: jarv on December 02, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
I like Bryan too but he will only ever be a decent second division player. Here in usa, football is on tv all the time and having seen villa several times, Targett has been their best player (behind Grealish) by a country mile. He is premier quality, no doubt about it now. When I watch other teams with an ex Fulham player, I tend to pay attention to them. Maybe we all do.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: res on December 02, 2019, 03:19:30 PM
Quote from: jarv on December 02, 2019, 01:24:36 PM
Matt Targett was critical to Fulham style under Slav and helping Sess become the player he is. (just saying) I have watched Villa a few times on tv and he has been outstanding for them, both defending and attacking.What a huge mistake letting him go and not meeting the asking price.  Hindsight maybe but would any other team get promotion and trash the defence by letting 2 excellent full backs go elsewhere. :Get Coat gif:

Easy to criticise but missing a couple of reality points. Firstly, Southampton wanted mega £m's for Targett (but I accept we wasted mega £m's on other players at the beginning of last season); Fredericks ran out his contract and would only re-sign if he became the highest paid player at the club which clearly we could not accept. Targett looks good in the Premiership; Fredericks looks OK but still has a disappointing final contribution and is not altogether liked down at West Ham.
Our current full backs do a decent Championship job but would need upgrading if (when) we go up.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: sarnian on December 02, 2019, 03:24:07 PM
Targett isn't perfect as Sky highlighted his weakness last season. At the time Mark Hughes would not sell Targett and kept raisin the price. It was only at the last minute that he became available and by then we moved on to Bryan.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Facts Not Fiction on December 02, 2019, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: Statto on December 02, 2019, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: Jim© on December 02, 2019, 01:35:12 PM
Targett was, for me nowhere near a £15m player. Or a £10m player. Or even £5m.
I'd say that Bryan is as good (though a few lapses lately have almost been costly) and much better in the air than Targett (who got targeted for that weakness when playing for us and we conceded a few goals because of it).

I have a similar view... although I'm sorry but Bryan is still awful in the air

The way I see it, Bryan was a £5/6m player and the asking price was £6m. Targett was a £5/6m player but the asking price was £20m... or £15m at the last minute. So Bryan was much better value for money.


Perfectly put. I'd rather have Targett, but not at over 3 times the cost of Bryan.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: KJS on December 02, 2019, 04:03:35 PM
Fulham offered good money but their manager at time wouldn't sell to us  a certain Mark Hughes was the man
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Carborundum on December 02, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
It was a big mistake not signing him.  He's better than Joe Bryan.  He knew our system.  We went down.  Many reasons for that but not signing a player you absolutely know will work seems an unnecessary risk.

I don't really care about the price differential. This isn't Football Manager on the PC.  It's our chairman's money, not mine.

Joe Bryan is a good player and shows admirable character.  Just not quite as good as someone who was very good indeed for us.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Jim© on December 02, 2019, 04:13:54 PM
Just can't see what everyone raved about. He looked physically weak and provided 2 assists in a FFC team that were absolutely steam-rolling all and sundry during that period (with the full backs given full reign to bomb on).
Bryan has provided 3 assists (also in 18 games) in a team that hasn't quite got going and where the full backs wings have been clipped a bit.

A bloody good saving of £10m if you ask me.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: filham on December 02, 2019, 04:19:41 PM
Yes, with the full benefit of hindsight we can all see that the loss of Fredericks and Targett were major factors in our poor premiership performance. Most of us would also have at the time said that we needed to keep them. However Southampton were asking the earth for Targett and had we paid their price it would have sent a message to all clubs that we were ripe for a rip off.

Fredericks gave due warning that he wanted a move to West Ham and there was little to be done about it.
All history now and best forgotten, Bryan and Odoi doing well right now, lets give them our full backing.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Steven Ageroad on December 02, 2019, 05:52:38 PM

Fredericks gave due warning that he wanted a move to West Ham and there was little to be done about it.
All history now and best forgotten, Bryan and Odoi doing well right now, lets give them our full backing.
[/quote]

Fredericks did give us due warning, that's why we bought Christie in plenty of time to replace him!!
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Statto on December 02, 2019, 07:09:35 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on December 02, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
I don't really care about the price differential. This isn't Football Manager on the PC.  It's our chairman's money, not mine.

No it's not your money but there's a finite amount of it we can spend on players under FFP. So what if it's a choice of (a) £6m on Bryan and £24m on Mitrovic, or (b) £20m on Targett and £10m on Jordan Rhodes / Chris Martin?
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Andy S on December 02, 2019, 07:13:25 PM
Certainly not a disaster but a shame
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Carborundum on December 02, 2019, 10:42:22 PM
Quote from: Statto on December 02, 2019, 07:09:35 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on December 02, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
I don't really care about the price differential. This isn't Football Manager on the PC.  It's our chairman's money, not mine.

No it's not your money but there's a finite amount of it we can spend on players under FFP. So what if it's a choice of (a) £6m on Bryan and £24m on Mitrovic, or (b) £20m on Targett and £10m on Jordan Rhodes / Chris Martin?
Recent threads on arrangements with Cardiff concerning Bobby Decordova Reid suggest things are perhaps a little less cut-and-dried, a little more flexible. There's a finite amount of money we can spend for this season, we're not spending much of it on BDR but somehow he's out there in a white shirt because the management team wanted him in.  We surely could have got Targett in during a window when we shelled out tens on millions on Seri, Le Marchand and Anguissa. 

But yes, given the choice in your construct I'd rather have Mitrovic and Bryan.  Which is really a commentary about Mitrovic.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: BigbadBillyMcKinley on December 02, 2019, 10:52:27 PM
Fredericks is a much bigger loss in my opinion. Doing well in a relatively poor west ham team.
I'd rather him back than targett.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Twig on December 02, 2019, 11:36:19 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on December 02, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
It was a big mistake not signing him.  He's better than Joe Bryan.  He knew our system.  We went down.  Many reasons for that but not signing a player you absolutely know will work seems an unnecessary risk.

I don't really care about the price differential. This isn't Football Manager on the PC.  It's our chairman's money, not mine.

Joe Bryan is a good player and shows admirable character.  Just not quite as good as someone who was very good indeed for us.

You haven't heard of FFP then?
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: The Rational Fan on December 03, 2019, 04:15:20 AM
We had a choose between Anguissa for £23m and Targett for £20m, while i conceded making that decision probably costed us points against Brighton, Cardiff and Huddersfield early in the season. Does anyone seriously think Anguissa isn't as good a player as Targett?

As for Ryan Fredericks, do we seriously think we should have paid him the same as Tom Cairney. And, do we think Tom Cairney wouldn't have insisted on a pay rise if Fredericks was on the same as him?

Do we also seriously believe that two lower premier league players that struggle to make teams that maybe relegated would have made much difference. They are weaker players in the XI at their clubs?
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: peter w on December 03, 2019, 05:12:47 AM
Quote from: jarv on December 02, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
I like Bryan too but he will only ever be a decent second division player. Here in usa, football is on tv all the time and having seen villa several times, Targett has been their best player (behind Grealish) by a country mile. He is premier quality, no doubt about it now. When I watch other teams with an ex Fulham player, I tend to pay attention to them. Maybe we all do.

I wouldn't go that far. He was good against Man U, and at least one of the few that tried at Wolves. He's been slightly more positive than negative but nowhere near being better for us this season over McGinn, Mings, Heaton, Guilbert, El Ghazi to name but 5. He's good going forward but a little rash defensively. But in saying that he coped with James quite comfortably on Sunday so hopefully for us he uses it as a springboard for more consistent performances.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Carborundum on December 03, 2019, 08:47:57 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 03, 2019, 04:15:20 AM
Do we also seriously believe that two lower premier league players that struggle to make teams that maybe relegated would have made much difference. They are weaker players in the XI at their clubs?
I believe that football teams are either greater or less than the sum of their individual parts.  When you find a player that fits the squad and a system, best not let them slip through the net.  We were horrible for most of last year, far less than the sum of our individual parts.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: The Rational Fan on December 03, 2019, 09:05:01 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on December 03, 2019, 08:47:57 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on December 03, 2019, 04:15:20 AM
Do we also seriously believe that two lower premier league players that struggle to make teams that maybe relegated would have made much difference. They are weaker players in the XI at their clubs?
I believe that football teams are either greater or less than the sum of their individual parts.  When you find a player that fits the squad and a system, best not let them slip through the net.  We were horrible for most of last year, far less than the sum of our individual parts.

Good Point, but it dangerous to overpay for players just, because they fit into the squad. KMac and Ream fitted perfectly in the 17/18 squad, but wouldn't have paid £20m for either of them. The advantage of buying better value players, like Anguissa, is we can sell them for a decent price if they don't fit in. When you buy players onlyhim  cause they fit it, as soon as they no long fit, you cannot sell them for good money to rebuild. If we had the option to get Taggett on loan then overpaying him makes sense, but offering a five year contract doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Statto on December 03, 2019, 09:19:12 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on December 02, 2019, 10:42:22 PM
Quote from: Statto on December 02, 2019, 07:09:35 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on December 02, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
I don't really care about the price differential. This isn't Football Manager on the PC.  It's our chairman's money, not mine.

No it's not your money but there's a finite amount of it we can spend on players under FFP. So what if it's a choice of (a) £6m on Bryan and £24m on Mitrovic, or (b) £20m on Targett and £10m on Jordan Rhodes / Chris Martin?
Recent threads on arrangements with Cardiff concerning Bobby Decordova Reid suggest things are perhaps a little less cut-and-dried, a little more flexible. There's a finite amount of money we can spend for this season, we're not spending much of it on BDR but somehow he's out there in a white shirt because the management team wanted him in.  We surely could have got Targett in during a window when we shelled out tens on millions on Seri, Le Marchand and Anguissa. 

But yes, given the choice in your construct I'd rather have Mitrovic and Bryan.  Which is really a commentary about Mitrovic.

We've signed Reid and a number of others on a deferred or contingent basis but, whilst that's a useful way to maximise our spending allowance this season, it isn't rocket science or in any way mysterious, and doesn't change the fundamental point about us having a finite amount to spend.

However to be clear I agree with your point that we could (and for the avoidance of doubt I think we certainly should) have bought Targett *instead* of other players we bought last year, including Seri, Le Marchand and Anguissa (in fact, anyone except Mitrovic, and perhaps Mawson)
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: Bassey the warrior on December 03, 2019, 10:09:24 AM
It strikes me as odd that people are going on about Targett when Bryan is in good form. Sure we could've done with him last season but he wasn't going to keep us up on his own.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: SuffolkWhite on December 03, 2019, 10:21:01 AM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on December 03, 2019, 10:09:24 AM
It strikes me as odd that people are going on about Targett when Bryan is in good form. Sure we could've done with him last season but he wasn't going to keep us up on his own.


I am a bit confused by this thread, yea we could have done with Targett but we were also being held to ransom by Soton so we said stuff it, and got what we could at the time to cover what we could in the team. Yea we did buy some players with no Heart Seri etc etc etc but that's a different argument.

We are sitting third in the table with the best start to a season in donkeys years and Yes I know not all performances have been good but we are doing ok with the left back we have at a third of the price.
Title: Re: matt Targett, huge mistake by Fulham management.
Post by: humussapiens on December 03, 2019, 01:37:16 PM
Ironically, we hijacked Bryan from Villa (he passed medical) and Villa got Targett (for less money then asked from FFC?).

FFC - Villa, FA Cup :)