Honestly I'm not sure I want to go up with this team. Can't remember the last time we had a good game
Bollocks we were robbed.
Daylight robbery. difficult game and not our best performance but still a good point.
Zero chance of finishing top 2. This team just not good enough.
Hector been a revelation but there is no fluidity to our play and the midfield looks so disjointed.
Even from my pessimistic outlook of thinking we'll finish playoffs, Millwall away is a good point but as Brom showed last game, an automatic team/champion, puts them away and we didn't. We never really looked dangerous to be honest.
Only 1 gear and chances created seem to be drying up.
Not sure we're good enough for top 2. What the past few games have shown me though is that perhaps we do have the grit after all to be competitive within the playoffs. 2017/18 Fulham win (and won) this game 3-0 after weathering the storm.
Quote from: howitis on February 12, 2020, 09:43:51 PM
Zero chance of finishing top 2. This team just not good enough.
Hector been a revelation but there is no fluidity to our play and the midfield looks so disjointed.
Totally agree Midfield letting us down.
Arter Why ?Onomah bang average
Cairney not giving enough.
I think Millwall - a team of industrious plodders - deliberately 'cultivate' that farmyard of a pitch to disadvantage the footballing sides that play there.
Quote from: Neil D on February 12, 2020, 09:50:26 PM
I think Millwall - a team of industrious plodders - deliberately 'cultivate' that farmyard of a pitch to disadvantage the footballing sides that play there.
Maybe, but how many chances did WestBrom create on the same turf?
Quote from: howitis on February 12, 2020, 09:43:51 PM
Zero chance of finishing top 2. This team just not good enough.
Hector been a revelation but there is no fluidity to our play and the midfield looks so disjointed.
We are trailing automatics on goal difference. We, along with 6 other teams have a very good chance of finishing in top 2.
The midfield looks ok even sometimes good when Cairney is not the only one with a mature footballing brain. So today it looked hopeless.
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 12, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: Neil D on February 12, 2020, 09:50:26 PM
I think Millwall - a team of industrious plodders - deliberately 'cultivate' that farmyard of a pitch to disadvantage the footballing sides that play there.
Maybe, but how many chances did WestBrom create on the same turf?
Over 20
Quote from: fulhamben on February 12, 2020, 09:40:31 PM
Honestly I'm not sure I want to go up with this team. Can't remember the last time we had a good game
We had a good game 4 days ago, for example.
Let's take the point,we got lucky with penalty miss.
Barnsley Sat,Leeds play Bristol, so we could be in automatic Sat evening.
Quote from: Neil D on February 12, 2020, 09:50:26 PM
I think Millwall - a team of industrious plodders - deliberately 'cultivate' that farmyard of a pitch to disadvantage the footballing sides that play there.
The exact same pitch that WBA gave them a footballing lesson on last Sunday
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 12, 2020, 09:53:31 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 12, 2020, 09:40:31 PM
Honestly I'm not sure I want to go up with this team. Can't remember the last time we had a good game
We had a good game 4 days ago, for example.
did we, thought we did well to hang on personally
Quote from: Riversider on February 12, 2020, 09:54:15 PM
Quote from: Neil D on February 12, 2020, 09:50:26 PM
I think Millwall - a team of industrious plodders - deliberately 'cultivate' that farmyard of a pitch to disadvantage the footballing sides that play there.
The exact same pitch that WBA gave them a footballing lesson on last Sunday
The exact same pitch that beat Leeds and Brentford, drew with Forest. Not sure why everyones being short sighted, this was a good result made average by a poor refereeing decision.
Quote from: Neil D on February 12, 2020, 09:50:26 PM
I think Millwall - a team of industrious plodders - deliberately 'cultivate' that farmyard of a pitch to disadvantage the footballing sides that play there.
It will sound like sour grapes now but I have always hated this. If you have a team that plays at such a high level then you should require a certain standard of pitch. A team that plays more physical long-ball football is not disadvantaged by such a pitch, but a team that plays passing and possession-based football is. If you flip it round, the hoofball teams are not disadvantaged by a smooth pitch so it's not really tit for tat. Football at such a level should not be influenced by how muddy or rough a pitch is. And let's not weep for smaller teams who 'can't afford it'. At this level, they can.
Quote from: Jurassic Parker on February 12, 2020, 09:55:29 PM
Quote from: Riversider on February 12, 2020, 09:54:15 PM
Quote from: Neil D on February 12, 2020, 09:50:26 PM
I think Millwall - a team of industrious plodders - deliberately 'cultivate' that farmyard of a pitch to disadvantage the footballing sides that play there.
The exact same pitch that WBA gave them a footballing lesson on last Sunday
The exact same pitch that beat Leeds and Brentford, drew with Forest. Not sure why everyones being short sighted, this was a good result made average by a poor refereeing decision.
And made average but our complete lack of creativity and ambition to score. We really didn't press at all. Hats off to Millwall, they worked their shorts off.
Shaun Hutchinson had a good game for them.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2020, 09:58:21 PM
Shaun Hutchinson had a good game for them.
I thought Wallace had a good game too.
We do have these games now and again, we look ragged but we were ripped off with their goal.
A point away a dodgy set of officials our unbeaten run continues and still idiots moan🙄🙄🙄🙄
Under the circumstances I am satisfied with an away point. Lots of room for improvement, but we are never going to keep the ball for 90 minutes, Millwall were not going to lay down on their own patch two games in a row, it was never going to be easy.
Look at it this way, we were 1 0 up early, and they get a goal that should have been disallowed, goals change games, and that's football.
What we do now is to bring on Barnsley, let Fulham recover from tonight, and prepare and organise for Saturday. Too much dissecting and people looking for an excuse to moan whether we win lose or draw.
Quote from: KJS on February 12, 2020, 10:17:49 PM
A point away a dodgy set of officials our unbeaten run continues and still idiots moan🙄🙄🙄🙄
Why do you bother? All you ever do is come on here and call people names etc. Grow up.
The way I look at it is that we were a whisker away from a 1 - 0 win, and we didn't even start our best XI.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 12, 2020, 10:17:54 PM
Under the circumstances I am satisfied with an away point. Lots of room for improvement, but we are never going to keep the ball for 90 minutes, Millwall were not going to lay down on their own patch two games in a row, it was never going to be easy.
Look at it this way, we were 1 0 up early, and they get a goal that should have disallowed, goals change games, and that's football.
What we do now is to bring on Barnsley, let Fulham recover from tonight, and prepare and organise for Saturday. Too much dissecting and people looking for an excuse to moan whether we win lose or draw.
The pachyderm speaks truth!
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 12, 2020, 10:17:54 PM
Under the circumstances I am satisfied with an away point. Lots of room for improvement, but we are never going to keep the ball for 90 minutes, Millwall were not going to lay down on their own patch two games in a row, it was never going to be easy.
Look at it this way, we were 1 0 up early, and they get a goal that should have been disallowed, goals change games, and that's football.
What we do now is to bring on Barnsley, let Fulham recover from tonight, and prepare and organise for Saturday. Too much dissecting and people looking for an excuse to moan whether we win lose or draw.
👍
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Let's take the point,we got lucky with penalty miss.
Barnsley Sat,Leeds play Bristol, so we could be in automatic Sat evening.
👆🏻This
The result was fine in isolation, as the last few months have been generally
The problem is we were sub-par for the first third of the season and always going to need something special to compensate for that. Whilst we're playing ok at the moment, we just aren't quite doing well enough to penetrate the top 2
But we've kept pace, at least
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 12, 2020, 09:53:31 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 12, 2020, 09:40:31 PM
Honestly I'm not sure I want to go up with this team. Can't remember the last time we had a good game
We had a good game 4 days ago, for example.
No we didn't ! All the issues seen tonight were present on Saturday! Hector good is about all I can say at the moment; that midfield is appalling
Think saying their goal should've been offside and Kebano's last minute header could've gone in is a huge over-simplification from Parker.
we haven't played well for ages
we missed K mac badly
it was never going to be our night and in the end we weathered the first half storm and a point whilst OK was a shame because second half we were in a different class
tactics very wrong first half
onomah? I am not really a fan and he needs a spell on the bench would prefer the to see bobby rreid central
saturday is the proper test.. bottom side, we just have to not just win.
So much ability in this team, yet only turn it on sporadically. Can't get my head round why we only go for it now and again. Too many sideways passes. Cairney being the biggest culprit. Is it me or does he not seem bothered
Quote from: MaidenheadMick on February 13, 2020, 12:15:40 AM
So much ability in this team, yet only turn it on sporadically. Can't get my head round why we only go for it now and again. Too many sideways passes. Cairney being the biggest culprit. Is it me or does he not seem bothered
If there's no one to pass to forwards, then side ways is better than backwards... mitrovic was offside most of time, and although brilliant in his own way, isn't one to run into channels/beat someone with pace.
Quote from: ALG01 on February 12, 2020, 11:43:58 PM
we haven't played well for ages
we missed K mac badly
it was never going to be our night and in the end we weathered the first half storm and a point whilst OK was a shame because second half we were in a different class
tactics very wrong first half
onomah? I am not really a fan and he needs a spell on the bench would prefer the to see bobby rreid central
saturday is the proper test.. bottom side, we just have to not just win.
Would like to see us actually push ourselves and TRY to turn it on.
Cav Mitro Knockaert
Reid
Cairney/Johansen KMac
Bryan Ream Hector Odoi
Rodak
Have a bit of an attacking formation and go up a gear!
Quote from: Milo on February 13, 2020, 12:56:38 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on February 12, 2020, 11:43:58 PM
we haven't played well for ages
we missed K mac badly
it was never going to be our night and in the end we weathered the first half storm and a point whilst OK was a shame because second half we were in a different class
tactics very wrong first half
onomah? I am not really a fan and he needs a spell on the bench would prefer the to see bobby rreid central
saturday is the proper test.. bottom side, we just have to not just win.
Would like to see us actually push ourselves and TRY to turn it on.
Cav Mitro Knockaert
Reid
Cairney/Johansen KMac
Bryan Ream Hector Odoi
Rodak
Have a bit of an attacking formation and go up a gear!
i could get behind that
Even at a lower level, we should know how to attack
Even at the lower level I played in we knew that defenders hate to be 'turned'
and played to that weekness.
I have told it before as I see it that Parker's team selections, formations, tactics, and in game management can be all over the place but nowhere near the consistency required to be a convincing outfit.
Forget the offside debacle because a goal was given. Think more about the ridiculous rushing at opponents and not winning the ball which spread faster than a virus around this team. Even Hector caught the bug. Think about how easily our opponents outthought and outfought us once that goal was given in the first half. The second was more even but we still lacked composure and method. Parker needs to wise up and pick horses for courses for the long term and not get carried away with little bursts of apparent form which mislead all but those who should know better.
Poor team selection via poor analysis of where the team needs to be composed - central midfield MrP - in order to stop our defence being vulnerable.
Thought it was a poor showing the lad from spurs ,just not as good as Stefan also would have have kept Kev mc in and started cav instead of AK.plus side ,Hector who seems class.
Quote from: toshes mate on February 13, 2020, 08:24:14 AM
I have told it before as I see it that Parker's team selections, formations, tactics, and in game management can be all over the place but nowhere near the consistency required to be a convincing outfit.
Forget the offside debacle because a goal was given. Think more about the ridiculous rushing at opponents and not winning the ball which spread faster than a virus around this team. Even Hector caught the bug. Think about how easily our opponents outthought and outfought us once that goal was given in the first half. The second was more even but we still lacked composure and method. Parker needs to wise up and pick horses for courses for the long term and not get carried away with little bursts of apparent form which mislead all but those who should know better.
Poor team selection via poor analysis of where the team needs to be composed - central midfield MrP - in order to stop our defence being vulnerable.
This. Doesn't matter that individual midfielders may play well, because so far this season the midfield three has rarely (if ever) looked like a unit. As long as they don't, we are bound to see this huge inconsistency both between games but also within games. In that way it's the opposite of Jokanovic's team, because those three looked like they had played together all their life. They are all still here by the way...
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 13, 2020, 09:14:00 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on February 13, 2020, 08:24:14 AM
I have told it before as I see it that Parker's team selections, formations, tactics, and in game management can be all over the place but nowhere near the consistency required to be a convincing outfit.
Forget the offside debacle because a goal was given. Think more about the ridiculous rushing at opponents and not winning the ball which spread faster than a virus around this team. Even Hector caught the bug. Think about how easily our opponents outthought and outfought us once that goal was given in the first half. The second was more even but we still lacked composure and method. Parker needs to wise up and pick horses for courses for the long term and not get carried away with little bursts of apparent form which mislead all but those who should know better.
Poor team selection via poor analysis of where the team needs to be composed - central midfield MrP - in order to stop our defence being vulnerable.
This. Doesn't matter that individual midfielders may play well, because so far this season the midfield three has rarely (if ever) looked like a unit. As long as they don't, we are bound to see this huge inconsistency both between games but also within games. In that way it's the opposite of Jokanovic's team, because those three looked like they had played together all their life. They are all still here by the way...
Totally agree. Stef, KMac and Cairney looked perfect, completely dominating games. I think I've seen that sort of cohesion once maybe this season? With all the quality we seem to have in this squad in those positions, I just don't see how Parker can't get this right. Especially considering he has those same three players albeit slightly older but KMac and Stef have proven they aren't passed the post yet when used.
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 13, 2020, 09:14:00 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on February 13, 2020, 08:24:14 AM
I have told it before as I see it that Parker's team selections, formations, tactics, and in game management can be all over the place but nowhere near the consistency required to be a convincing outfit.
Forget the offside debacle because a goal was given. Think more about the ridiculous rushing at opponents and not winning the ball which spread faster than a virus around this team. Even Hector caught the bug. Think about how easily our opponents outthought and outfought us once that goal was given in the first half. The second was more even but we still lacked composure and method. Parker needs to wise up and pick horses for courses for the long term and not get carried away with little bursts of apparent form which mislead all but those who should know better.
Poor team selection via poor analysis of where the team needs to be composed - central midfield MrP - in order to stop our defence being vulnerable.
This. Doesn't matter that individual midfielders may play well, because so far this season the midfield three has rarely (if ever) looked like a unit. As long as they don't, we are bound to see this huge inconsistency both between games but also within games. In that way it's the opposite of Jokanovic's team, because those three looked like they had played together all their life. They are all still here by the way...
Quite a simplistic view in all honesty ,both posts. We are not playing the way we did under Slavisa which leaves our midfield needing to be more creative. Our full-backs well Bryan at least poses a threat going forward but we dont have the pace of Fredricks or the pace /mobility of sessignon. So when we do play it out wide it often ends up getting recirculated to attempt to open up space.Our wide forwards still play very central (as they largely did under Joka ) but now mostly cut in. When we can combine with mitro we create openings,but he has not played all that well recently apart from his goals in my view. The partnership Mitro /sessegnon has not been replicated.thus far. Down to parkers tactics? In part but his tactics have also made us a lot more solid (not just down to individuals). Within 2or 3 games we could be top of the table and last nights draw although not great ,wasnt that bad either.
The pressure is on us and for me,the biggest question is if we can cope with that.
Quote from: colinwhite on February 13, 2020, 10:05:37 AM
Quite a simplistic view in all honesty, both posts ... the biggest question is if we can cope with pressure ...
At least these posts were not full of specious waffle about recycling, creativity, and opening up space (when did we last do that consistently for ninety minutes)? Your question has been answered several times already this season as we have not capitalised on failures of others around us. Players rushing twenty yards or more to go out of position and fail to win the ball is a schoolboy error, as is having a player who manages to let one incident dominate the rest of the game (and not for the first time). Please let us have a modicum of composure at the heart of our game.
Let's be honest, that midfield three of Johansen, McDonald and Cairney probably overachieved with Jokanovic (to his credit) but he also got lucky with injuries (or more specifically, a lack thereof) and let's not forget they were actually only good for half a season (or at best, two half seasons).
In contrast, this year I think all three (and all our other midfielders) have had injuries at some point, requiring Parker to rotate. We're also setting the bar higher for Parker by expecting him (reasonably IMO) to get us playing well for a full season, to get into the automatics, not just half a season like we did to get into the play-offs under Jokanovic.
It's also worth pointing out IMO that Parker has shown with Onomah (and arguably Anguissa last year) that he can get individuals to raise their game, like Jokanovic did with a few.
Personally I maintain the view that Parker is underachieving, both in terms with what he's getting out of the midfield, and generally with this team. But considering the mitigating factors set out above, IMO he's *only slightly* underachieving.
We're about 6 pts short of where we I thought we should be going into this season.
Toshesmate . When it comes to waffle I certainly cant match you. Yet another post where you dont really say anything. But one thing is clear you dont like Parker.
Quote from: colinwhite on February 13, 2020, 10:39:06 AM
Toshesmate . When it comes to waffle I certainly cant match you. Yet another post where you dont really say anything. But one thing is clear you dont like Parker.
Pot ... Kettle ... Black
Quote from: Statto on February 13, 2020, 10:38:05 AM
Let's be honest, that midfield three of Johansen, McDonald and Cairney probably overachieved with Jokanovic (to his credit) but he also got lucky with injuries (or more specifically, a lack thereof) and let's not forget they were actually only good for half a season (or at best, two half seasons).
In contrast, this year I think all three (and all our other midfielders) have had injuries at some point, requiring Parker to rotate. We're also setting the bar higher for Parker by expecting him (reasonably IMO) to get us playing well for a full season, to get into the automatics, not just half a season like we did to get into the play-offs under Jokanovic.
It's also worth pointing out IMO that Parker has shown with Onomah (and arguably Anguissa last year) that he can get individuals to raise their game, like Jokanovic did with a few.
Personally I maintain the view that Parker is underachieving, both in terms with what he's getting out of the midfield, and generally with this team. But considering the mitigating factors set out above, IMO he's *only slightly* underachieving.
We're about 6 pts short of where we I thought we should be going into this season.
Agree with most of that Statto
Yes a disappointing result and performance but then a draw at Mllwall is not really that bad.
However nothing less that a 3-0 win at home to Barnsley on Saturday will be acceptable. KMc. and Cavy must replace Arter and Kamara and Parker must get the team performing for 90 minutes.
Yes I have to agree about replacing Arter and Kamara for this match v Barnsley.
Arter the awful; Hector the hero.
Quote from: keithh on February 13, 2020, 05:38:46 PM
Arter the awful; Hector the hero.
Arter looked terrible v Millwall. Not sure why he rates. Not very good, and always a double yellow/straight red waiting to happen. I just don't see how/why he starts?
I hate it when teams press Fulham like Millwall did on Wednesday - it really seems to rattle Fulham, and makes me wonder why everyone doesn't do it against them. Not being a student of the game, I assume it's like basketball/football, where if the press gets broken, you're vulnerable for a breakaway down the court/field. The problem is, Fulham can't break a press. The keep passing the ball sideways and backwards until, eventually out of frustration, they loft if forwards where the opponent inevitably gets control. It seems to me like a lack of overall team speed might be the culprit, in that if Fulham had more of it, other teams might not be willing to press up so hard. However, Fulham hasn't shown the ability to punish anyone for doing that. Is it the lack of speed, poor passing, poor ball skills, or something else which makes this such an effective tactic against Fulham?
Quote from: USNA90 on February 14, 2020, 09:29:35 AM
I hate it when teams press Fulham like Millwall did on Wednesday - it really seems to rattle Fulham, and makes me wonder why everyone doesn't do it against them. Not being a student of the game, I assume it's like basketball/football, where if the press gets broken, you're vulnerable for a breakaway down the court/field. The problem is, Fulham can't break a press. The keep passing the ball sideways and backwards until, eventually out of frustration, they loft if forwards where the opponent inevitably gets control. It seems to me like a lack of overall team speed might be the culprit, in that if Fulham had more of it, other teams might not be willing to press up so hard. However, Fulham hasn't shown the ability to punish anyone for doing that. Is it the lack of speed, poor passing, poor ball skills, or something else which makes this such an effective tactic against Fulham?
Good observation. FFC has had very few "transition" type goals, both this year and last. They are a somewhat slow club. Mitro is great in the box, but he is grindingly slow. AK47 has some speed, but lacks control and finesse. Reid can be dangerous in transition too, but although he has some speed he is not super fast. I get frustrated also with the sideways and backwards possession style of play which this team displays. I would like to see them much more aggressive when they are moving forward and not have that overwhelming propensity to draw backwards into possession mode.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Let's take the point,we got lucky with penalty miss.
Barnsley Sat,Leeds play Bristol, so we could be in automatic Sat evening.
Wasn't lucky Mince, just a bad pen.
Quote from: alfie on February 14, 2020, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Let's take the point,we got lucky with penalty miss.
Barnsley Sat,Leeds play Bristol, so we could be in automatic Sat evening.
Wasn't lucky Mince, just a bad pen.
its lucky in the respect that pens shouldn't be missed.
Quote from: fulhamben on February 15, 2020, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: alfie on February 14, 2020, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Let's take the point,we got lucky with penalty miss.
Barnsley Sat,Leeds play Bristol, so we could be in automatic Sat evening.
Wasn't lucky Mince, just a bad pen.
its lucky in the respect that pens shouldn't be missed.
If a player fails to at least hit the target from 12 yards, that's not lucky/unlucky, it's a badly taken pen.
Quote from: alfie on February 15, 2020, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 15, 2020, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: alfie on February 14, 2020, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Let's take the point,we got lucky with penalty miss.
Barnsley Sat,Leeds play Bristol, so we could be in automatic Sat evening.
Wasn't lucky Mince, just a bad pen.
its lucky in the respect that pens shouldn't be missed.
If a player fails to at least hit the target from 12 yards, that's not lucky/unlucky, it's a badly taken pen.
it is a badly taken penalty, but it's lucky that it's taken badly as the vast majority of the time it won't be.
Quote from: fulhamben on February 15, 2020, 02:13:26 PM
Quote from: alfie on February 15, 2020, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 15, 2020, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: alfie on February 14, 2020, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on February 12, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Let's take the point,we got lucky with penalty miss.
Barnsley Sat,Leeds play Bristol, so we could be in automatic Sat evening.
Wasn't lucky Mince, just a bad pen.
its lucky in the respect that pens shouldn't be missed.
If a player fails to at least hit the target from 12 yards, that's not lucky/unlucky, it's a badly taken pen.
it is a badly taken penalty, but it's lucky that it's taken badly as the vast majority of the time it won't be.
This could go on and on, gonna leave it there with our slight difference of opinion.
