... how many people who should know better don't understand the offside law. It doesn't matter if the defending team "touches" the ball before it goes to an attacker in an offside position. In order to negate being offside, the ball has to be deliberately played by the defender. If it deflects off him or touches him in any non-deliberate way and then is played by an attacker who was in an offside position before the defender touched it, the attacker should be flagged offside.
It is depressing how many commentators, players and fans don't know the law.
But Onomah was deliberately trying to play the ball. So if the ref deemed it a miss kick from Onomah (not just a deflection), then there is no offside. Looking at replays that doesn't seem to be the case though, since it looks like the Millwall players strikes it first so that it deflected off Onomah.
The bit I don't get is that at the first header from the corner, by Shaun Hutchinson, the goalscorer was already in an offside position, so surely the "did Onomah touch it" debate is irrelevant, as the flag should have gone up as soon as Hutchinson headed it vaguely forwards. Am I missing something?
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
Quote from: bencher on February 13, 2020, 09:03:05 AM
The bit I don't get is that at the first header from the corner, by Shaun Hutchinson, the goalscorer was already in an offside position, so surely the "did Onomah touch it" debate is irrelevant, as the flag should have gone up as soon as Hutchinson headed it vaguely forwards. Am I missing something?
At that moment the scorer had no impact on play whatsoever. So again, if it was deemed that Onomah deliberately played the ball then it doesn't matter that the goal scorer was offside in the previous sequence. Doesn't really matter though, since everything points to this just being really bad refereeing.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 13, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
Obviously you cant be offside directly from a corner as the ball would have to go forward from the corner kick and as such, the ball must surely go out of play. If a player heads it forward from a corner then the player is offside.
Quote from: MaidenheadMick on February 13, 2020, 09:11:30 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 13, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
Obviously you cant be offside directly from a corner as the ball would have to go forward from the corner kick and as such, the ball must surely go out of play. If a player heads it forward from a corner then the player is offside.
Exactly my point. To Sting in the North, how can the goalscorer have had no impact on play when the header was headed? He was part of the attacking team, it's not like he was walking back from an offside position. Just because the header didn't reach him, I can't see that as being relevant.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 13, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
From a throw in no . A corner I'm not sure.
Quote from: bencher on February 13, 2020, 09:21:10 AM
Quote from: MaidenheadMick on February 13, 2020, 09:11:30 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 13, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
Obviously you cant be offside directly from a corner as the ball would have to go forward from the corner kick and as such, the ball must surely go out of play. If a player heads it forward from a corner then the player is offside.
Exactly my point. To Sting in the North, how can the goalscorer have had no impact on play when the header was headed? He was part of the attacking team, it's not like he was walking back from an offside position. Just because the header didn't reach him, I can't see that as being relevant.
The officials have to deem that the player in the offside position had become active.
My understanding from yesterday was that the linesman said that he did not know if the attacker was in an offside position so thought he could not guess.
If he was that incompetent that he could not see someone two yards offside what the hell is he doing officiating in the EFL.
At no time did this incompetent say he was not sure who played the ball.
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on February 13, 2020, 09:22:54 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 13, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
From a throw in no . A corner I'm not sure.
Can't be offside from a corner, throw in or goal kick (dead ball, not in play). Wouldn't have mattered last night anyway because the player was offside after it had been touched by two Millwall players, it was stonewall and that lino should be sacked for missing it, and then coming out and saying he thought it was onside and didn't want to guess
Bödvarsson is offside at the point of Hutchinson's header forward, and, as a defender cannot play an attacker onside, he is still offside when the ball reaches him and should have been flagged accordingly. Both officials need a refresher course on offside from their gender opposites which will probably take forever for them to not understand.
Quote from: Deeping_white on February 13, 2020, 09:50:01 AM
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on February 13, 2020, 09:22:54 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 13, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
From a throw in no . A corner I'm not sure.
Can't be offside from a corner, throw in or goal kick (dead ball, not in play). Wouldn't have mattered last night anyway because the player was offside after it had been touched by two Millwall players, it was stonewall and that lino should be sacked for missing it, and then coming out and saying he thought it was onside and didn't want to guess
Yes I thought it was blatant offside, why are officials so incompetent these days or was he intimidated by the crowd behind him, because if he was he should not be doing the job, but I agree he needs a good bollocking, and pay docked and go on a refresher course, and beg forgiveness.
Absolutely right, I was getting wound up last night too and was thinking 'is it just me or am I missing something?'
What is the difference between A: the scenario last night for Millwalls goal, and B: an attacker plays a pass through to another who is in an offside position but the ball deflects off a defender mid-pass?
For me there is no difference and you can guarantee the second scenario will be blown for offside all day long - it doesn't matter if it touched the defender last, the offside occurred the second the first player made the pass and found his target
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 13, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
Of course you can't as you can't play the ball forward from a corner.
Quote from: FulhamKC on February 13, 2020, 12:28:16 AM
... how many people who should know better don't understand the offside law. It doesn't matter if the defending team "touches" the ball before it goes to an attacker in an offside position. In order to negate being offside, the ball has to be deliberately played by the defender. If it deflects off him or touches him in any non-deliberate way and then is played by an attacker who was in an offside position before the defender touched it, the attacker should be flagged offside.
It is depressing how many commentators, players and fans don't know the law.
yes so agree , and on top of your quotes re the commentators they were insistent about the ball being played FORWARD when it's irrelevant whether the ball is played forward , sideways or backward the player is still offsiside , the law states the position of the player when the ball was played ( no forward or backward mentioned) just when the bal was played.
All that said , me being a very fair person , the final result was about correct, as much as it hurts.
Quote from: flyingfish on February 13, 2020, 09:31:07 AM
Quote from: bencher on February 13, 2020, 09:21:10 AM
Quote from: MaidenheadMick on February 13, 2020, 09:11:30 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 13, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
Obviously you cant be offside directly from a corner as the ball would have to go forward from the corner kick and as such, the ball must surely go out of play. If a player heads it forward from a corner then the player is offside.
Exactly my point. To Sting in the North, how can the goalscorer have had no impact on play when the header was headed? He was part of the attacking team, it's not like he was walking back from an offside position. Just because the header didn't reach him, I can't see that as being relevant.
The officials have to deem that the player in the offside position had become active.
So a player just in front of the keeper is not active!!!
Quote from: bobbo on February 13, 2020, 01:15:47 PM
Quote from: FulhamKC on February 13, 2020, 12:28:16 AM
... how many people who should know better don't understand the offside law. It doesn't matter if the defending team "touches" the ball before it goes to an attacker in an offside position. In order to negate being offside, the ball has to be deliberately played by the defender. If it deflects off him or touches him in any non-deliberate way and then is played by an attacker who was in an offside position before the defender touched it, the attacker should be flagged offside.
It is depressing how many commentators, players and fans don't know the law.
yes so agree , and on top of your quotes re the commentators they were insistent about the ball being played FORWARD when it's irrelevant whether the ball is played forward , sideways or backward the player is still offsiside , the law states the position of the player when the ball was played ( no forward or backward mentioned) just when the bal was played.
All that said , me being a very fair person , the final result was about correct, as much as it hurts.
The laws say you cannot be offside if you are behind the ball when played.
Quote from: flyingfish on February 13, 2020, 01:25:14 PM
Quote from: bobbo on February 13, 2020, 01:15:47 PM
Quote from: FulhamKC on February 13, 2020, 12:28:16 AM
... how many people who should know better don't understand the offside law. It doesn't matter if the defending team "touches" the ball before it goes to an attacker in an offside position. In order to negate being offside, the ball has to be deliberately played by the defender. If it deflects off him or touches him in any non-deliberate way and then is played by an attacker who was in an offside position before the defender touched it, the attacker should be flagged offside.
It is depressing how many commentators, players and fans don't know the law.
yes so agree , and on top of your quotes re the commentators they were insistent about the ball being played FORWARD when it's irrelevant whether the ball is played forward , sideways or backward the player is still offsiside , the law states the position of the player when the ball was played ( no forward or backward mentioned) just when the bal was played.
All that said , me being a very fair person , the final result was about correct, as much as it hurts.
The laws say you cannot be offside if you are behind the ball when played.
yes of course but I didn't say that, just said even if the ball is played backwards a player can be still in an offside position.
I don't wish to appear to be a knowall but I ran and taught at the referees courses in Uxbridge for 5 years hence I knew the book ( referees chart ) almost parrot fashion.
Can I just add, so my understanding is that we all know the ref and his lino mate are massive incompetent cants. Can we start a petition or something again? Same as Bristol @ home.
At the moment that Hutchison heads the ball, Bodvarsson is onside as he is level with Hector. If you stop the action, the line of our six-yard box determines this, with Hector's right foot clearly planted behind the line. There is a Millwall player (Cooper, I think) who is offside, but unless it is deemed that he interfered with the play, the referee and linesman are right to allow the goal to stand if they also believe that Bradshaw does not touch the ball. If, however, they are of the view that Bradshaw does make contact with the ball, it matters not whether Onomah has - the correct decision is offside (as Bodvarsson had, in that split second, stepped forward into an offside position).
For the goal to stand, the referee and linesman must have felt that Onomah alone was responsible for diverting the ball into Bodvarsson's path. So, yes, they made a mistake in that their eyes deceived them but, going on what they thought they saw, they did not make an error in their application of the offside law.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11932480/championship-highlights-and-round-up-west-brom-move-six-points-clear
Whatever we think it makes no difference now!
Quote from: Bill2 on February 13, 2020, 01:15:59 PM
Quote from: flyingfish on February 13, 2020, 09:31:07 AM
Quote from: bencher on February 13, 2020, 09:21:10 AM
Quote from: MaidenheadMick on February 13, 2020, 09:11:30 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 13, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
My understanding is that you cannot be offside straight from a corner, or am I missing something.
Obviously you cant be offside directly from a corner as the ball would have to go forward from the corner kick and as such, the ball must surely go out of play. If a player heads it forward from a corner then the player is offside.
Exactly my point. To Sting in the North, how can the goalscorer have had no impact on play when the header was headed? He was part of the attacking team, it's not like he was walking back from an offside position. Just because the header didn't reach him, I can't see that as being relevant.
The officials have to deem that the player in the offside position had become active.
So a player just in front of the keeper is not active!!!
Correct, he is not active in the play by default as it's a judgement call. It's not that complicated, but difficult to apply in the moment I would imagine. The same as it being difficult to tell a deliberate attempt to play the ball from a pure deflection sometimes I assume.
