Watford captain Troy Deeney says he will not return to training because he fears for his family's health amid the coronavirus pandemic. Premier League teams started non-contact training from Tuesday. Do Watford now stop paying his wages or have they actively encouraged their captain to take this stance to try and get the rest of the premier league season halted, Ensuring their safety in the premier league for another season. Watford are at present 1 point outside the relegation positions with games to go
I am a little disturbed by the headline of 'Troy Deeney BAME Card' as it has racist overtones and has no place on this board or in or around our club.
We have a number of players and staff who would indeed come under this category. I would like to think that you would give them the consideration that they fully deserve if they indeed felt it inappropriate to return to training, along with anyone at the other 23 Championship clubs - it is not as Bill Shankly once said - it could instead be very similar to the scene in 'The Deer Hunter'!
Think on!
Quote from: ffcwickford on May 19, 2020, 06:02:28 PM
I am a little disturbed by the headline of 'Troy Deeney BAME Card' as it has racist overtones and has no place on this board or in or around our club.
We have a number of players and staff who would indeed come under this category. I would like to think that you would give them the consideration that they fully deserve if they indeed felt it inappropriate to return to training, along with anyone at the other 23 Championship clubs - it is not as Bill Shankly once said - it could instead be very similar to the scene in 'The Deer Hunter'!
Think on!
Agreed. Headline is totally inappropriate.
I don't think t is meant to be racist , however it couldand probably should have been worded a bit more carefully .
I think take the word card away and it's fine.
Onthe actual subject , I don't blame him , figures and facts have proved ethic people are more likely to fall ill to the virus.
Off the subject I like deeney he's true to Watford , he's had the chance to move to a bigger club and declined.
If I had a five month old child at home with breathing difficulties I'd do exactly the same.
BAME is an imotive subject at the moment but in regards to Co-vid the issue is for those in that category who work in the care sector Transport and lower paid jobs where they are exposed more it should not be used by footballers etc who would be playing in a sterile and safer environment than the rest of us.
Quote from: KJS on May 19, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
BAME is an imotive subject at the moment but in regards to Co-vid the issue is for those in that category who work in the care sector Transport and lower paid jobs where they are exposed more it should not be used by footballers etc who would be playing in a sterile and safer environment than the rest of us.
As I understand it, BAME individuals appear to be disproportionately affected even accounting for the fact a BAME person is statistically more likely to live in a densely-populated urban area, more likely to live in poverty and be exposed to the various additional risk factors stemming from that, more likely to work in a high-risk job as you say, etc. However, all these things are so complex, I get the impression a lot more research needs to be done and personally i wouldn't be surprised if it will emerge in due course that the heightened risk for BAME individuals is purely down to those environmental factors, not their genetics.
Quote from: KJS on May 19, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
BAME is an imotive subject at the moment but in regards to Co-vid the issue is for those in that category who work in the care sector Transport and lower paid jobs where they are exposed more it should not be used by footballers etc who would be playing in a sterile and safer environment than the rest of us.
I am not sure that is entirely accurate. As I understand it there is a suggestion from the available stats that BAME people may (and I stress may because clearly more research is needed) be more prone to suffering ill effects from the covis virus.
Quote from: bobbo on May 19, 2020, 06:23:59 PM
I don't think t is meant to be racist , however it couldand probably should have been worded a bit more carefully .
I think take the word card away and it's fine.
On the actual subject , I don't blame him , figures and facts have proved ethic people are more likely to fall ill to the virus.
Off the subject I like deeney he's true to Watford , he's had the chance to move to a bigger club and declined.
Tend to agree. Except I'm not sure "proved" is correct.
Quote from: Twig on May 19, 2020, 07:26:30 PM
Quote from: KJS on May 19, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
BAME is an imotive subject at the moment but in regards to Co-vid the issue is for those in that category who work in the care sector Transport and lower paid jobs where they are exposed more it should not be used by footballers etc who would be playing in a sterile and safer environment than the rest of us.
I am not sure that is entirely accurate. As I understand it there is a suggestion from the available stats that BAME people may (and I stress may because clearly more research is needed) be more prone to suffering ill effects from the covis virus.
No one knows but I tend to believe it more likely actual life style than generic as I don't recall any ethnic minority players dyiing because of covid but I do know carers and low paid workers of that ethneticity have sadly perished.
I fully support any player who refuses to train due to being worried about a member of their family as is happening with Deeny. However it seems to me that clubs could be putting pressure on players especially the Captain in order to ensure they have premiership football next season. This is unfair on other clubs near the bottom
Quote from: Statto on May 19, 2020, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: KJS on May 19, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
BAME is an imotive subject at the moment but in regards to Co-vid the issue is for those in that category who work in the care sector Transport and lower paid jobs where they are exposed more it should not be used by footballers etc who would be playing in a sterile and safer environment than the rest of us.
As I understand it, BAME individuals appear to be disproportionately affected even accounting for the fact a BAME person is statistically more likely to live in a densely-populated urban area, more likely to live in poverty and be exposed to the various additional risk factors stemming from that, more likely to work in a high-risk job as you say, etc. However, all these things are so complex, I get the impression a lot more research needs to be done and personally i wouldn't be surprised if it will emerge in due course that the heightened risk for BAME individuals is purely down to those environmental factors, not their genetics.
Statto, this is probably the most ignorant thing I have ever heard on this site. Are you trying to say all the healthcare workers including the 23 year old Filipino lad working at Watford hospital that have died is due to his environment of North London? Where are you drawing these conclusion?
Quote from: Black, White and Fred on May 19, 2020, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: Statto on May 19, 2020, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: KJS on May 19, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
BAME is an imotive subject at the moment but in regards to Co-vid the issue is for those in that category who work in the care sector Transport and lower paid jobs where they are exposed more it should not be used by footballers etc who would be playing in a sterile and safer environment than the rest of us.
As I understand it, BAME individuals appear to be disproportionately affected even accounting for the fact a BAME person is statistically more likely to live in a densely-populated urban area, more likely to live in poverty and be exposed to the various additional risk factors stemming from that, more likely to work in a high-risk job as you say, etc. However, all these things are so complex, I get the impression a lot more research needs to be done and personally i wouldn't be surprised if it will emerge in due course that the heightened risk for BAME individuals is purely down to those environmental factors, not their genetics.
Statto, this is probably the most ignorant thing I have ever heard on this site. Are you trying to say all the healthcare workers including the 23 year old Filipino lad working at Watford hospital that have died is due to his environment of North London? Where are you drawing these conclusion?
Well I'm no Sherlock Holmes but on the facts you've described I'd suggest working in a bloody hospital had something to do with those cases!
Are you suggesting it was just because he's Filipino? In which case "where are you drawing this conclusion?"
If we decide something has got to be risk free we're doomed.People choosing imo to do what suits them.
Ha ha don't know where that sentence came from.
I can understand his emotions and fears, and he is entitled to choose not to return to training, but he can't then expect to get paid. He also needs to consider, given that he feels so strongly about the risk, what can change to enable him to return to football. Coronavirus is not going away any time soon; and even if it did, there are still all sorts of infections in the community which are of equal, if not greater, danger to his young son. He is unfortunately facing the same dilemma as millions of other parents. I work for the police, and I sympathise with my colleagues out there on the streets arresting people, or going into people's homes to restrain and arrest. Many of them have vulnerable family members and share Troy Deeney's fears, but they have continued to work. The harsh reality is that if a lot of people don't go back to work when the risks become reasonably low in their job, it will not take long before a substantial part of our population experiences serious poverty and consequent damage to mental and physical health - even death. Some already have experienced desperation (one man in our area died after living in his car for two weeks), but many are shielded from reality by furlough - which is a good thing, but can only be temporary.
As iwas attempting to say earlier.There all always risks involved in life.When teacher's say we can only go back to school when it is risk free in my opinion is stupid,getting political at a time when we don't need it as a nation.Same with footballers,when can we get back?Ok if you withdraw your labour you don't get paid.How do you feel now?Leave it up to them to decide without their wage.I think that is fair enough.They have enough in the pot to retire now.
If your employer has done as much as he can to ensure your safety I don't think you can ask for more. If they haven't ask for what you need. Once you get it you return
If it's already been touched on ignore this. An epidemiologist explained it as possibly a vit D deficiency. Vit D is an important part of the immune system and many of us are low in it. A main source is through sunlight. He reasoned that people with darker skins absorbed less through sunlight (here) so their basic immunity may be lower. Hence the higher rates amongst the BAME communities. Apart from low paid front line workers its affected a high number of Doctors and other professionals from these communities as well.
Found the article...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/15/role-of-vitamin-d-deficiency-in-bame-medic-deaths
Quote from: I Ronic on May 20, 2020, 07:58:25 AM
If it's already been touched on ignore this. An epidemiologist explained it as possibly a vit D deficiency. Vit D is an important part of the immune system and many of us are low in it. A main source is through sunlight. He reasoned that people with darker skins absorbed less through sunlight (here) so their basic immunity may be lower. Hence the higher rates amongst the BAME communities. Apart from low paid front line workers its affected a high number of Doctors and other professionals from these communities as well.
Found the article...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/15/role-of-vitamin-d-deficiency-in-bame-medic-deaths
All Football players should be tested to see if there Vitamin D levels are sufficient before being allowed to play football given the risks with covid-19. If Troy Deeny is vitamin D deficient, then he should be taking tablets plus sunbaking indoor/outdoors and not join the squad until his levels are sufficient (of course what level sufficient can be debated but a level should be set).
Anyone Vitamin D deficient is at risk, but I imagine Watford knows his Vitamin D levels and probably fixed any issues already, but maybe they should also test those he is living with too. Vitamin D is a major problem in London for even people of southern English blood in winter, but Scottish people fair better as they require less sunlight to create sufficient levels of Vitamin D.
It is no accident that the country with the highest vitamin D levels in the world hasn't been hit with COVID-19. Australia is very sunny, the people are mostly quite white and often dying of skin cancer but rarely have vitamin D deficiency. Interestingly, 76% of women in Lombardy Italy have low vitamin D levels, while Germanys and Austrian who often sunbake naked have better Vitamin D levels. Another example is California that has higher vitamin D seems to do better at fighting the virus than New Yorkers.
I am badly missing watching Fulham and would love to see the final nine matches played and us being promoted .
However there seem to be too many problems in the way of a restart, if the players are not in favour of it then the effort and risk may not be worthwhile.
I am changing my thinking and beginning to side with those that are saying there are more important things than football. In particular I see that farmers are in trouble with harvesting crops because the labour usually used from overseas cannot get into the country, that is serious, we could all suffer from a shortage of fresh food over the winter.
So , right now I am thinking that all football should be abandoned for at least three months and that all highly paid Premier League and Championship players should immediately be conscripted as farm workers with all pay from their clubs stopped but replace by the same amount the immigrant worker would have been paid. Alternatively I wouldn't begrudge them the wage I was paid in 1957 as a National Service conscript in the RAF
Quote from: Andy S on May 19, 2020, 11:43:21 PM
If your employer has done as much as he can to ensure your safety I don't think you can ask for more. If they haven't ask for what you need. Once you get it you return
I work for a health insurance company here in South Florida.
The company specializes only in retirement health insurance, (a large percentage paid for by the government)
Without doubt, Palm Beach County is one of the largest senior living community areas in the US and as such
has an extremely high risk population over 65.
I am the Activity assistant coordinator of a recreation, activity, events, health, social, wellness center.
Prior to the virus, we have had up to 250 a day, although the average was 100-120. with (considering the space)
large exercise classes 5 days a week.
We have been closed for 2 months and a lot of our programs are now done virtually, although all of our members
miss coming to the center because of the 'sociability' many of them being 'on their own'
Our management are preparing for us to re-open, the restrictions are obvious as are the risks if not done properly.
I have every confidence that everything possible will be done to ensure the safety of us, the staff and the members,
and will have no concerns about going back to work in that environment.
The hardest 'task' will be to ensure the social distancing from the moment the queue starts outside, before we open. until
the last people leave.
Quote from: SP on May 19, 2020, 06:24:20 PM
If I had a five month old child at home with breathing difficulties I'd do exactly the same.
Spot on IMHO.
No ones business if he chooses to put family first. Anyone else would do too. He is entitled to do so. I have staff that are home since their family member is at risk and they are paid 100% still.
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
No ones business if he chooses to put family first. Anyone else would do too. He is entitled to do so. I have staff that are home since their family member is at risk and they are paid 100% still.
No one has said otherwise, have they? As far as I can tell people are just (a) saying he shouldn't get paid and (b) asking whether he'll take a consistent approach to other high risk activities, like going to the supermarket or avoiding the regular flu next winter?
Quote from: Statto on May 20, 2020, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
No ones business if he chooses to put family first. Anyone else would do too. He is entitled to do so. I have staff that are home since their family member is at risk and they are paid 100% still.
No one has said otherwise, have they? As far as I can tell people are just (a) saying he shouldn't get paid and (b) asking whether he'll take a consistent approach to other high risk activities, like going to the supermarket or avoiding the regular flu next winter?
None of your business though or others what life choices he makes, whether he is paid or not. Why raise a point that he shouldn't be paid for not playing, the business he works for have said it's fine, therefore it harms no one else.
I'm sure he takes in to consideration many health aspects of picking up illnesses that could affect his sick child. The risk to his ethnicity seems from reports to be higher, therefore as a father he has taken a decision. I would no doubt weigh that up if i was in his shoes, even you would i imagine do so too.
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 08:21:50 PM
Quote from: Statto on May 20, 2020, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
No ones business if he chooses to put family first. Anyone else would do too. He is entitled to do so. I have staff that are home since their family member is at risk and they are paid 100% still.
No one has said otherwise, have they? As far as I can tell people are just (a) saying he shouldn't get paid and (b) asking whether he'll take a consistent approach to other high risk activities, like going to the supermarket or avoiding the regular flu next winter?
None of your business though or others what life choices he makes, whether he is paid or not. Why raise a point that he shouldn't be paid for not playing, the business he works for have said it's fine, therefore it harms no one else.
I'm sure he takes in to consideration many health aspects of picking up illnesses that could affect his sick child. The risk to his ethnicity seems from reports to be higher, therefore as a father he has taken a decision. I would no doubt weigh that up if i was in his shoes, even you would i imagine do so too.
Query how relevant the "none of your business" argument is when the player made the comments in question on a YouTube show with Tony Bellew and Eddie Hearn
Ok then the club is forced to play the rest of their games without him and get relegated is his position untenable
Quote from: Statto on May 20, 2020, 09:41:10 PM
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 08:21:50 PM
Quote from: Statto on May 20, 2020, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
No ones business if he chooses to put family first. Anyone else would do too. He is entitled to do so. I have staff that are home since their family member is at risk and they are paid 100% still.
No one has said otherwise, have they? As far as I can tell people are just (a) saying he shouldn't get paid and (b) asking whether he'll take a consistent approach to other high risk activities, like going to the supermarket or avoiding the regular flu next winter?
None of your business though or others what life choices he makes, whether he is paid or not. Why raise a point that he shouldn't be paid for not playing, the business he works for have said it's fine, therefore it harms no one else.
I'm sure he takes in to consideration many health aspects of picking up illnesses that could affect his sick child. The risk to his ethnicity seems from reports to be higher, therefore as a father he has taken a decision. I would no doubt weigh that up if i was in his shoes, even you would i imagine do so too.
Query how relevant the "none of your business" argument is when the player made the comments in question on a YouTube show with Tony Bellew and Eddie Hearn
Because it's his life, his family, his career, no one else. Quite simple really. Do you allow others to tell you what to do with your choices in career and stand there going yes, yes miss?
You'll make an argument out of it no doubt, we differ on opinion over it. You expect (it seems) a explanation from Troy Deeney on why he has made that decision. I doubt you'll get one. Myself I favour the stance that he can choose what he wants, his employer has backed him and therefore it means nothing to anyone other than Troy Deeney, his family and his employer.
Each to their own, no more on it from me
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 10:50:37 PM
Quote from: Statto on May 20, 2020, 09:41:10 PM
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 08:21:50 PM
Quote from: Statto on May 20, 2020, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
No ones business if he chooses to put family first. Anyone else would do too. He is entitled to do so. I have staff that are home since their family member is at risk and they are paid 100% still.
No one has said otherwise, have they? As far as I can tell people are just (a) saying he shouldn't get paid and (b) asking whether he'll take a consistent approach to other high risk activities, like going to the supermarket or avoiding the regular flu next winter?
None of your business though or others what life choices he makes, whether he is paid or not. Why raise a point that he shouldn't be paid for not playing, the business he works for have said it's fine, therefore it harms no one else.
I'm sure he takes in to consideration many health aspects of picking up illnesses that could affect his sick child. The risk to his ethnicity seems from reports to be higher, therefore as a father he has taken a decision. I would no doubt weigh that up if i was in his shoes, even you would i imagine do so too.
Query how relevant the "none of your business" argument is when the player made the comments in question on a YouTube show with Tony Bellew and Eddie Hearn
Because it's his life, his family, his career, no one else. Quite simple really. Do you allow others to tell you what to do with your choices in career and stand there going yes, yes miss?
You'll make an argument out of it no doubt, we differ on opinion over it. You expect (it seems) a explanation from Troy Deeney on why he has made that decision. I doubt you'll get one. Myself I favour the stance that he can choose what he wants, his employer has backed him and therefore it means nothing to anyone other than Troy Deeney, his family and his employer.
Each to their own, no more on it from me
I'm not giving him orders. I'm giving an opinion. Would I allow others to give an opinion on comments I'd broadcasted on popular Internet TV channel? Yes. Of course.
And FWIW he explained his comments quite clearly, so I'm not expecting an explanation... I already have one.
I get the impression you've only read half the story here, and only half the posts you're replying to
Quote from: Statto on May 20, 2020, 11:09:35 PM
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 10:50:37 PM
Quote from: Statto on May 20, 2020, 09:41:10 PM
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 08:21:50 PM
Quote from: Statto on May 20, 2020, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: HobGoblin on May 20, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
No ones business if he chooses to put family first. Anyone else would do too. He is entitled to do so. I have staff that are home since their family member is at risk and they are paid 100% still.
No one has said otherwise, have they? As far as I can tell people are just (a) saying he shouldn't get paid and (b) asking whether he'll take a consistent approach to other high risk activities, like going to the supermarket or avoiding the regular flu next winter?
None of your business though or others what life choices he makes, whether he is paid or not. Why raise a point that he shouldn't be paid for not playing, the business he works for have said it's fine, therefore it harms no one else.
I'm sure he takes in to consideration many health aspects of picking up illnesses that could affect his sick child. The risk to his ethnicity seems from reports to be higher, therefore as a father he has taken a decision. I would no doubt weigh that up if i was in his shoes, even you would i imagine do so too.
Query how relevant the "none of your business" argument is when the player made the comments in question on a YouTube show with Tony Bellew and Eddie Hearn
Because it's his life, his family, his career, no one else. Quite simple really. Do you allow others to tell you what to do with your choices in career and stand there going yes, yes miss?
You'll make an argument out of it no doubt, we differ on opinion over it. You expect (it seems) a explanation from Troy Deeney on why he has made that decision. I doubt you'll get one. Myself I favour the stance that he can choose what he wants, his employer has backed him and therefore it means nothing to anyone other than Troy Deeney, his family and his employer.
Each to their own, no more on it from me
I'm not giving him orders. I'm giving an opinion. Would I allow others to give an opinion on comments I'd broadcasted on popular Internet TV channel? Yes. Of course.
And FWIW he explained his comments quite clearly, so I'm not expecting an explanation... I already have one.
I get the impression you've only read half the story here, and only half the posts you're replying to
You can get the impression whatever you feel like, seems that you aren't interested in other opinions without trying to put barbs in your statements. My opinion on it differs from yours and we won't agree on the matter at hand. Good night to you
HobGoblin & Statto .. and that is enough from the pair of you. Don't hijack threads with bickering please, take it to PMs.
Dr Fauci (USA top advisor) has pointed out that if one player test negative then plays football with covid-19, then potential all players of the field will could catch it, which would mean playing the second XI for the rest of the season.
We are potential creating a worse situation than just ending the season now, with EPL relegation possibly just an indication of which teams caught covid-19 and promotion an indication of the best teams that didn't.
If that happens in the Fulham vs Leeds game, with one player giving to both teams, then both their seasons would be ruined then WBA, Brentford and Forest would go up. If the same happens in the Premier League for a Southampton vs Brighton game then those two teams would like get no more points to go down.
I personally believe Leeds and WBA deserve promotion this season then playoffs among the rest seems fair. As for the EPL, Norwich and Aston Villa should go down plus one of the others.
If we continue playing, then we could the insane situation that a team like Everton goes down with numerous loss of players then get zero points and QPR goes up vía playoffs with no lose of players. I also think it would be unfair if Leicester lost its place in Europe.
Reports are that three people at Watford FC have the virus, should we restart the season as surely this is not the end of their outbreak and if it restarts they will get relegated if a few more get sick. Restarting the season could be letting the virus choose promotion and relegation, which is worse method than points per game so far.
Quote from: Logicalman on May 21, 2020, 02:44:45 AM
HobGoblin & Statto .. and that is enough from the pair of you. Don't hijack threads with bickering please, take it to PMs.
Some guidance on what constitutes 'bickering' would help.
I was, naively perhaps, under the impression that a civil back-and-forth between two posters (in other words, a 'discussion') was permitted.
Is the rule that after, say 2 replies to the same poster, that transitions from a discussion to 'bickering' and is not allowed?
I'm already struggling to avoid 'hijacking' threads by discussing anything different to the OP, another unwritten rule that seems to have emerged lately. So any guidance you can provide would be much appreciated.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 21, 2020, 05:41:14 AM
Reports are that three people at Watford FC have the virus, should we restart the season as surely this is not the end of their outbreak and if it restarts they will get relegated if a few more get sick. Restarting the season could be letting the virus choose promotion and relegation, which is worse method than points per game so far.
These players are symptomless so will have a short period of isolation and be back in group training well before the season starts. Calm down.
This is why I originally suggested that Watford were encouraging Troy Deeny as captain to highlight that he won't be training because of the threat. Nobody says that any player has picked this up in training. Also have his comments been taken out of context? Interestingly nobody in the London area tested positive for COVID 19 yesterday. Watch this space
Quote from: Statto on May 21, 2020, 09:03:04 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 21, 2020, 05:41:14 AM
Reports are that three people at Watford FC have the virus, should we restart the season as surely this is not the end of their outbreak and if it restarts they will get relegated if a few more get sick. Restarting the season could be letting the virus choose promotion and relegation, which is worse method than points per game so far.
These players are symptomless so will have a short period of isolation and be back in group training well before the season starts. Calm down.
Interesting that were Watford in the Champ those same players would have to self isolate for twice as long.
