https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52758193
Some of the turkeys wont vote for Christmas
I actually think if the season can't go on that the ppg system is the fairest.
Sure teams can go on runs, but the table is the way it is for a reason. Hull is not going to be in the Top 6. It would be nice if we were promoted for being in 3rd from a ppg standpoint, but think that if it comes to a ppg resolution they would have the playoffs for teams in 3rd-6th.
Quote from: The Rock on May 21, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
I actually think if the season can't go on that the ppg system is the fairest.
Sure teams can go on runs, but the table is the way it is for a reason. Hull is not going to be in the Top 6. It would be nice if we were promoted for being in 3rd from a ppg standpoint, but think that if it comes to a ppg resolution they would have the playoffs for teams in 3rd-6th.
Sure, but isn't the entire point to eliminate the health hazard? If I was in 7th, and you're allowing 6th-3rd play, I'd be even more furious. If no one can play, just use PPG and promote the 3rd place team. To freeze everyone except the playoff teams is object to reason if it's about health and welfare. The top 2 weren't guaranteed to finish top 2 but they just get to advance while the 3rd place team has to tussle it out when we had every ability to go into the top 2 should the rest of the season played out? I think freeze and promote top three is the fairest way to go based on PPG... but I'm also hugely biased :)
If the season can go ahead without losing players and teams to covid-19, then continuing would be the fairest. I don't think that is the reality and some scenarios I can dream up produce ridiculous promotion scenarios. I think we should agree a half-finished
Problematic Scenario in Championship: If the virus spreads from a Fulham vs Brentford to Leeds and WBA, then automatic promotion could go to someone currently outside the top five getting 71-75 points at the end of the season, which could be someone on 48 points now like Reading, Sheffield Wednesday or worst of all QPR doing a run like Fulham 17/18. The only difference is Fulham 17/18 had a better first half of the season than QPR this season and QPR maybe winning its last 9 games against massively understrength sides. Any automatic promotion for QPR this season would be ridiculous and unlikely genuinely earned.
Ask yourself: If QPR ends this season with 27 points in the last 9 games, while Leeds affected by covid-19 gets 6 points in the 9 last games, then who deserves to go up for automatic promotion?
Even more ridiculous could be the playoff places, Wigan could still get 68 points, it's possible they become the only XI unaffected by covid-19 to blast their way into the Premiership. Would it be right to start the season again and then decide they don't get promoted because all other 23 teams can only play academy players, then promote Leeds and WBA.
We can avoid the above ridiculous scenarios by creating additional rules like the season is over once half the teams want are affected by covid-19, but then if eleven teams are infected and Hull is fourth, then they stay up if they catch the virus.
Whatever system you create it could breakdown with covid-19 outbreaks, gaming the system and bad politics. I think points per game is not great, but other options could turn out really really badly.
Restarting the season could result in other promotion and relegations that fail a basic sanity check. If you ask me, automatic promotion places this season must go to two of Leeds, WBA, Fulham, Brentford and Forest; if any other team gets there the covid-19 has had too much of an impact. As for playoffs, it should go to some team currently in the top half of the table otherwise covid-19 has affected results too much. Likewise relegation should be someone currently less than 42 points.
Premier League Relegations could be even more ridiculous than anything before if Everton losses all its games cause it is hit with covid-19 and the bottom teams get a couple points more than a point per game, the table turns out like. Brighton 39, Bournemouth 40, Aston Villa 38, Watford 38, West Ham 38, Everton 37 and Norwich 34. Resulting in West Ham and Everton in next year Championship will make it almost impossible to get automatic promotion and even a playoff promotion spot will result in a very difficult first season in premier league as one team that goes up nearly always goes down.
I think we've been massively stiched up if we lose the chance of automatics (West Brom were faultering) and have to play the playoffs.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 22, 2020, 03:08:31 AM
If the season can go ahead without losing players and teams to covid-19, then continuing would be the fairest. I don't think that is the reality and some scenarios I can dream up produce ridiculous promotion scenarios.
I think the part I bolded above is the most important one in your post. One could always come up with completely ridiculous scenarios, but it is normally not a good way to argue since it normally has nothing do to with reality. If this were to develop into a situation like the one you describe, they would obviously change their stance on how to resolve the season so this is a non-issue. There is however no need to prematurely decide something based on the most ridiculous and unlikely scenario that can possibly be imagined.
Quote from: OhConnah on May 21, 2020, 09:01:35 PM
If I was in 7th, and you're allowing 6th-3rd play, I'd be even more furious. If no one can play, just use PPG and promote the 3rd place team.
And would the teams in 4th to 6th places be any less furious? Theirs would be the greatest of all, I'd imagine.
There are 9 games to go and 4 points separating 3rd-6th. Any of those 3rd -6th could make 3rd place, some could even make the top two and those in 7th & 8th might still harbour aspirations of making top 6.
If the season is not to be completed (and the PL will set the precedent for that) then ppg could reasonably come into play. If the PL decides to complete BCD then it seems reasonable to complete the 9 remaining games in the Championship in the same way - and the top 3 go up. I'm not just saying this because Fulham are presently sitting 3rd (in fact, as things were going I'd have favoured Brentford to finish 3rd) but for the simple reason that it saves making any two teams play a further 3 games each - 12 in all - if you want to leave reasonable time for a break before the new season.
Play-offs only came in in 1987, before that promotion was always decided in that way. As a one-off, it seems pragmatic to me and 9 games seems quite enough to have to play.
Quote from: OhConnah on May 21, 2020, 09:01:35 PM
Quote from: The Rock on May 21, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
I actually think if the season can't go on that the ppg system is the fairest.
Sure teams can go on runs, but the table is the way it is for a reason. Hull is not going to be in the Top 6. It would be nice if we were promoted for being in 3rd from a ppg standpoint, but think that if it comes to a ppg resolution they would have the playoffs for teams in 3rd-6th.
Sure, but isn't the entire point to eliminate the health hazard? If I was in 7th, and you're allowing 6th-3rd play, I'd be even more furious. If no one can play, just use PPG and promote the 3rd place team. To freeze everyone except the playoff teams is object to reason if it's about health and welfare. The top 2 weren't guaranteed to finish top 2 but they just get to advance while the 3rd place team has to tussle it out when we had every ability to go into the top 2 should the rest of the season played out? I think freeze and promote top three is the fairest way to go based on PPG... but I'm also hugely biased :)
Yes, the entire point is to eliminate the health hazard. It just seems the FA is keen on still having playoffs from their statement, which, to your point, sort of defeats the purpose.
Quote from: The Rock on May 22, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Yes, the entire point is to eliminate the health hazard. It just seems the FA is keen on still having playoffs from their statement, which, to your point, sort of defeats the purpose.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the hazard posed by Covid19 can only be eliminated when a vaccine is produced. Until then, the best that can be achieved is to minimise the risk, and the proposed system of testing and playing behind closed doors appears to be as low-risk as it can get.
If P.L. clubs were to decide not to complete their season, I wonder what position football would be in come September if there is no sign of a vaccine? If the P.L. clubs won't risk playing with the safeguards that are available and next season also falls by the wayside, there will be no money from Sky, obviously. Yet how many can afford to pay their multi-million-pound-earning players without it?
