So, if we were promoted, Parker would most definitely be kept in charge.
We would recruit differently and I suspect in a less spectacular way. Artery to be made permanent for example. New right back, maybe sign Kongolo, that sort of thing.
What then, how would we fair ?
For me, it would be incredibly difficult, would Parker change his Parker ball tactics ? We know Slav came unstuck trying to out pass Man City at the Etihad etc ! Sheffield U have done remarkably well, but they play more of an old fashion style I think, they are also likely to suffer next season as this often happens when teams like them do well the first season promoted.
Personally I can't see anything other than a massive struggle, I would personally create a 5 year plan that takes into account a very good chance we would be relegated again. Unless we can unearth a Saha, Steed and current players seriously improve I can not see how we succeed.
I wouldn't worry. Looks like we have to go through the lottery of the playoffs
I don't understand your premise really. Why wouldn't we recruit more? It's not as if we don't have the means. I believe we have a good 12-15 players that can form a foundation of a PL squad, and would need to add 3-4 players of good PL standard + a few more squad players. The rest is up to getting the team to play like a team. We saw glimpses of that being a possibility at times before the lockdown but in my opinion the jury is still out on Parker in that regard. The style of play is not an issue at all in my opinion in regards to our chances in the PL. The problem is that we often don't seem to execute it very well for long spells (in my opinion because of a failure by Parker to get the midfield to consistently work as a unit).
If we were to make it into the premier league, and it is a very big if , I think that Parker should continue with his tight and boring tactics and realise that he has an enormous relegation battle from day one to reach a target of 40 points.
The spine of the team , Rodak, Hector and Mitrovic is premier quality so he needs no changes there. A goal poacher to play alongside Mitro is needed, Reid has not achieved enough this season and the back four will need strengthening but he should avoid too many changes, team integrity is important.
I'm yet to be convinced by SP but I do think he will look at grinding out the points where he can in the first season and have a stronger voice on recruitment.
I believe as he is at the the start of his managerial career he will be patient and aim to take tiny steps progressing his and the clubs future.
The biggest IF for me is what the owners learnt last time and how they view the managers plan for the season.
Don't get me wrong, I do think we will recruit, what I am saying is recruit for the future. Not too reliant on loans, maybe a couple of experienced Premier players. Certainly think Parker will have to get his tactics right. We really should not play it around at the back too much. Parker has made adjustments as this season progressed so he may be able to adapt. Defensively we must be better than last time and yes, Hector will help. I would personally hope to get Kongolo in permanently as in his short spell he looked like a great partner for Hector plus a good experienced premier quality right back.
And of course, we have a long way to go before this debate becomes real !
We get something like 200 million and we have to recruit heavily. Hopefully wisely
Irrespective of what happens with regards to what division we're in next year, I think we're in a prime position to take advantage financially. FFP will without doubt be voided this year and may never look the same again, and we've got an owner rich enough to cash in on clubs struggling financially to cherry pick their best players
Quote from: FulhamStu on May 22, 2020, 11:24:31 AM
Don't get me wrong, I do think we will recruit, what I am saying is recruit for the future. Not too reliant on loans, maybe a couple of experienced Premier players.
I agree with this but your first post, perhaps unintentionally, seems to imply that we'd be more frugal second time around.
This season we've focussed on permanent deals (or loans that we can convert to permanent deals) but we've been far from frugal. The cheque book is still getting waved around.
So I see no reason to think we won't spend another £100m+, just that this time, perhaps it would go on James Maddison type players, on permanent deals, rather than imports/loans
Although with that said, I think it will also depend on the covid-19 situation. I don't buy all this "the world has changed forever" bo11ocks but nonetheless, I can't see any clubs spending much in August if there remains any uncertainty as to whether/when next season will start
Quote from: Statto on May 22, 2020, 01:38:40 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on May 22, 2020, 11:24:31 AM
Don't get me wrong, I do think we will recruit, what I am saying is recruit for the future. Not too reliant on loans, maybe a couple of experienced Premier players.
I agree with this but your first post, perhaps unintentionally, seems to imply that we'd be more frugal second time around.
This season we've focussed on permanent deals (or loans that we can convert to permanent deals) but we've been far from frugal. The cheque book is still getting waved around.
So I see no reason to think we won't spend another £100m+, just that this time, perhaps it would go on James Maddison type players, on permanent deals, rather than imports/loans
Although with that said, I think it will also depend on the covid-19 situation. I don't buy all this "the world has changed forever" bo11ocks but nonetheless, I can't see any clubs spending much in August if there remains any uncertainty as to whether/when next season will start
I agree, not more frugal, but better more long term. The Khans seem to learn after first making errors, maybe this is because they can afford too. They have always in my mind tried to do what's best for the team and are now learning its complicated. They want us to be a Premier team, but it's more difficult than just chucking money at it.
The Khans have made errors, but they have consistently learnt from those errors. Yes, a number of fans don't like rich people and get on their back, however, in my view they will eventually get what they want, a Premier League football team, with a fantastic stadium that will compete well if not necessarily winning everything.
Premier League is always going to be a struggle for most promoted sides no doubt about it but I think Rodak Hector down the spine is a huge upgrade on what we had last time.
IF we manage to get promoted I believe
Rodak Hector Mawson Ream Bryan Cairney Onomah Arter Bobby StefJo Cav Kamara Knockeart Mitro a good base to start from.
Talented youngsters like Sess Carvalho Stansfield coming through.
4/5 good additions at RB CB CM ST & I think we would have a chance.
I hope we have learned lessons & keep some of the loan players we have even the likes of Harrison Reed etc instead of making wholesale changes. Just 4/5 quality additions of the likes of Ryan Babel etc will give us a chance in my opinion.
Yeah agree, would be happy with like 5/6 quality players for 10-15m mark and then a couple of loans
I think of our current team we definitely have a much stronger base than we did last time
I do think when discussing keeping our loan players we should be wary of signing Arter / Reed on permanents - I wouldn't sign Knockaert on a perm but I'm pretty sure its already agreed but for Arter and Reed we can definitely get a better quality player once we are in the Prem. These two were both deemed not good enough by Prem teams and haven't set the world alight in the Champ. Just my thoughts.
Anyway bit to early to discuss the Prem as of now - lets get there first!
Quote from: @jolslover on May 23, 2020, 11:18:40 AM
Yeah agree, would be happy with like 5/6 quality players for 10-15m mark and then a couple of loans
I think of our current team we definitely have a much stronger base than we did last time
I do think when discussing keeping our loan players we should be wary of signing Arter / Reed on permanents - I wouldn't sign Knockaert on a perm but I'm pretty sure its already agreed but for Arter and Reed we can definitely get a better quality player once we are in the Prem. These two were both deemed not good enough by Prem teams and haven't set the world alight in the Champ. Just my thoughts.
Anyway bit to early to discuss the Prem as of now - lets get there first!
I wish the young players you mention were going to be ready for next season but I don't think they will be.
Bring back Slav!
Keep Parker - what's he done besides keep us comfortably in the playoffs and making forays into the top 2 all season bar perhaps one small banana slip patch? He's a good gaffer, he's young and learning. As for players, the Kahn's are learning, they're fantastic owners, we are very lucky.
Bring back Slav!
Milo - that is something that would make me very , very happy
Keep Parker.l have shocked myself as l used to be his most severe critic.However have recently come to recognise what a jolly fine decent chap he is.Well suited to Fulham.
Keep Scott Parker, the Khans appointed him, and so far apart from Scott they have sacked every manager they have appointed, which tells you more about them than the managers they appointed. Too many in a short space of time.
We need stability which is something I hope the owner has become to realise.
Most Managers are aware that they will probably end up getting the sack as they know it comes with that kind of job.
Slavisa being sacked was a huge error of judgement, with or without hindsight, and hiring and firing managers far too quickly due to impatience, stupidity and lack of foresight can become a very bad habit and cause for regret in the long term.
Only one team can win a League, only one team can win a cup.
All managers need time, which is something these days that intolerant owners and supporters conveniently forget in their natural desire for success.
But vision, foresight, responsibility and a great deal of patience is required from owners and fans alike in the majority of cases.
Jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is not advisable.
It's good to have dreams and aspirations as long as they are not fantasies.
Summary of Current Signings for Next Season
Homegrown (9): Rodak, Betts, Christie, Bryan, Hector, Mawson, Onamah, Cairney, Reid
Overseas (10): Fabri, Ream, MLM, McDonald, Anguissa, Seri, Johansen, Kamara, Mitro and Cav
Planned Improvements
Planned releases to freshen up the squad Ream, McDonald and Johnson
Planned acquisition of existing players including Kongolo, Odoi, Arter and Knockaert (~£30m).
Planned acquisition of new players at RB, LB, DM, RW and Backup-CF, which should cost around £70m.
Any player that the coach thinks is not up for fight is traded "like for like" at approximately the value sold at.
Loan players used on deadline day to cover any players not performing in pre-season or right player not available.
Final Squad
First XI: Rodak; New RB, New LB, Hector, Kongolo; New DM, Anguissa, Cairney; New RW, Mitro and Cav
Second XI: Betts; Christie, Bryan, Mawson, MLM; Arter, Onamah, Seri; Knockaert, Backup-CF and Reid
Thrid XI: Fabri, S.Sess, Odoi, Kamara and Stanfield
Quote from: FulhamStu on May 22, 2020, 08:40:23 AM
Personally I can't see anything other than a massive struggle, I would personally create a 5 year plan that takes into account a very good chance we would be relegated again.
I couldn't agree more, we need to take a good look at acquiring a number of younger players that are useful in the premier league that would almost guarantee a rebound if we went down.
Bringing in players like Matthew Cash-RB, Jay Dasilva-LB, Jude Bellingham-CM, Eberechi Eze-AM, Bryan Mbeuma-RW, and Ollie Watkins-CF, combined with Rodak-GK, S.Sess-RB, Hector-CB, Mawson-CB, Kongolo-CB, Bryan-LB, Onamah-CM, Reid-AM, Kamara-RW, Cav-LW and Stansfield-CF is the kind of under 28yo depth a yo-yo teams need that is 17 younger players that could spend a few years in the Championship.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on May 24, 2020, 11:34:30 AM
Keep Scott Parker, the Khans appointed him, and so far apart from Scott they have sacked every manager they have appointed, which tells you more about them than the managers they appointed. Too many in a short space of time.
We need stability which is something I hope the owner has become to realise.
Most Managers are aware that they will probably end up getting the sack as they know it comes with that kind of job.
Slavisa being sacked was a huge error of judgement, with or without hindsight, and hiring and firing managers far too quickly due to impatience, stupidity and lack of foresight can become a very bad habit and cause for regret in the long term.
Only one team can win a League, only one team can win a cup.
All managers need time, which is something these days that intolerant owners and supporters conveniently forget in their natural desire for success.
But vision, foresight, responsibility and a great deal of patience is required from owners and fans alike in the majority of cases.
Jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is not advisable.
It's good to have dreams and aspirations as long as they are not fantasies.
1. You said it, pretty much every manager eventually gets sacked, Fulham's ownership is no different to all other clubs.
2. Many fans have been very critical of Slav being sacked, the fact is, the club repeatedly tried to get Slav to sign a new contract which he refused to do. Maybe if he had signed a new contract he would still be in charge. One last point, whilst his football was a joy to watch in the Championship, it was very naive to try to play that type of possession football against much better teams. Yes, this was how we played and it had worked, but to try and out pass Man City was crazy to witness and I was there !
Quote from: FulhamStu on May 25, 2020, 07:19:30 AM
Many fans have been very critical of Slav being sacked, the fact is, the club repeatedly tried to get Slav to sign a new contract which he refused to do. Maybe if he had signed a new contract he would still be in charge. One last point, whilst his football was a joy to watch in the Championship, it was very naive to try to play that type of possession football against much better teams. Yes, this was how we played and it had worked, but to try and out pass Man City was crazy to witness and I was there !
In the last 755 minutes of Slavisa managing Fulham, we scored 4 goals (0.47 goals per 90 mins) and conceded 24 goals (2.86 goals per 90 mins), that time included conceding goals against Watford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Cardiff, and Huddersfield. I cannot see Slavisa winning in the EPL with his type of possession football, and once we were changed to counter-attacking football it made sense to bring in an expert in that style like Raneri.
Besides Raneri went close to turning us around, we looked close to keeping clean sheets until Mawson got injured. If we got clean sheets against Leicester, Wolves, and Burnley plus avoided injury to Mawson, then we would have gone in winter deadline day with 24 points, Mawson and the Khans may have added Cahill, Drinkwater, Moses, and Babel. An XI - Rico; Moses, Chambers, Mawson, MLM, Bryan; Drinkwater, Anguissa; Cairney, Mitro, and Babel may have got the remaining 13 points required (especially remembering we actually got 9 points in the games that occurred).
Although, after the deadline day passed with both a huge points gap and very little additional players, Raneri was completely useless as a coach. My guess is he gave up after the game against Crystal Palace just after deadline day, as he had run out of ideas. Fulham needs to stop looking back and become a team that is always ready to get promoted when it get relegated again from the Premier League.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 25, 2020, 05:18:11 AM
Summary of Current Signings for Next Season
Homegrown (9): Rodak, Betts, Christie, Bryan, Hector, Mawson, Onamah, Cairney, Reid
Overseas (10): Fabri, Ream, MLM, McDonald, Anguissa, Seri, Johansen, Kamara, Mitro and Cav
Planned Improvements
Planned releases to freshen up the squad Ream, McDonald and Johnson
Planned acquisition of existing players including Kongolo, Odoi, Arter and Knockaert (~£30m).
Planned acquisition of new players at RB, LB, DM, RW and Backup-CF, which should cost around £70m.
Any player that the coach thinks is not up for fight is traded "like for like" at approximately the value sold at.
Loan players used on deadline day to cover any players not performing in pre-season or right player not available.
Final Squad
First XI: Rodak; New RB, New LB, Hector, Kongolo; New DM, Anguissa, Cairney; New RW, Mitro and Cav
Second XI: Betts; Christie, Bryan, Mawson, MLM; Arter, Onamah, Seri; Knockaert, Backup-CF and Reid
Thrid XI: Fabri, S.Sess, Odoi, Kamara and Stanfield
That starting 11 is a very good base. I think with the right additions we could become a mid table side.
Quote from: FulhamStu on May 25, 2020, 07:19:30 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on May 24, 2020, 11:34:30 AM
Keep Scott Parker, the Khans appointed him, and so far apart from Scott they have sacked every manager they have appointed, which tells you more about them than the managers they appointed. Too many in a short space of time.
We need stability which is something I hope the owner has become to realise.
Most Managers are aware that they will probably end up getting the sack as they know it comes with that kind of job.
Slavisa being sacked was a huge error of judgement, with or without hindsight, and hiring and firing managers far too quickly due to impatience, stupidity and lack of foresight can become a very bad habit and cause for regret in the long term.
Only one team can win a League, only one team can win a cup.
All managers need time, which is something these days that intolerant owners and supporters conveniently forget in their natural desire for success.
But vision, foresight, responsibility and a great deal of patience is required from owners and fans alike in the majority of cases.
Jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is not advisable.
It's good to have dreams and aspirations as long as they are not fantasies.
1. You said it, pretty much every manager eventually gets sacked, Fulham's ownership is no different to all other clubs.
2. Many fans have been very critical of Slav being sacked, the fact is, the club repeatedly tried to get Slav to sign a new contract which he refused to do. Maybe if he had signed a new contract he would still be in charge. One last point, whilst his football was a joy to watch in the Championship, it was very naive to try to play that type of possession football against much better teams. Yes, this was how we played and it had worked, but to try and out pass Man City was crazy to witness and I was there !
Of course you are right, I cannot disagree on your points you have made, however, there was an uneasy relationship between Slavisa and Khan Junior, a professional listening to an amateur would cheese off anyone I would imagine.
Perhaps it spilled over from TKs best mate the arrogant loose cannon CK who eventually fell on his own sword.
With TK a clash of personalities that Slavisa felt he could never really win as it was the owners son, and naturally thought TK was two bob at his job, so was not prepared to commit himself. It's all politics and different personalities, and a clash between professionals and Amateurs, and at the end of the day the wrong bloke got the sack, but that's nepotism for you, and nobody really won because of it.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on May 25, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
A professional listening to an amateur would cheese off anyone I would imagine.
Most organizations have a head professional that reports to an amateur, board of amateurs, shareholders and/or public.
Most Football clubs have someone controlling the purse strings that is not a professional footballer or coach.
Most Countries are executively headed by a Prime Minister that is an amateur in both Health and Education.
Most Drug Companies are headed by someone that knows more about finance than pharamaticals.
And, while most Banks are headed by Bankers, the CEO generally report to shareholders that are amateurs.
Nearly every football club is owned by someone that has been financially successful in business and that business is rarely football.
If Slavisa wants to report to a professional rather than an amateur, then he needs to be second in charge which doesn't suit him either.
What Slavisa wanted was to be the head professional and no amateur gets in the way of what he wants to do.
The hard truth is what he wants doesn't exist anywhere and even something close to what he wanted (e.g MAF) is extremely rare.
There seemed a combination of factors against Slav in the Prem.
We weren't too bad at first, looked promising, except we hardly got any points, and a downward spiral began, with seeming loss of confidence amongst manager and players.
Slave never seemed to have confidence in the players at his disposal - with several expensive acquisitions, he chose to play them all together right from the season's start, so we had a team stating it's first Prem game, where the players had hardly even met.
Our style which had been so successful i the Championship, was found lacking in thePrem, when we shipped far too many goals with our porous defence.
Slav was brave in continuing with his attacking style, even away at City, and maybe the wrong players were brought in - they were certainly unsuccessful at Fulham, but a more cautious, defensive minded approach is maybe more suitable for a team like Fulham embarking on a Prem campaign.
But we failed to bring i the necessary defenders and defensive minded midfielders.
We are certainly looking far more sound defensively with Hector, and now hopefully Kongolo, at the back, with Rodak in goal, and this could augur well for Scott Parker, who is a more pragmatic, defensive minded manager, if we manage to go up this season.
Quote from: @jolslover on May 25, 2020, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 25, 2020, 05:18:11 AM
Summary of Current Signings for Next Season
Homegrown (9): Rodak, Betts, Christie, Bryan, Hector, Mawson, Onamah, Cairney, Reid
Overseas (10): Fabri, Ream, MLM, McDonald, Anguissa, Seri, Johansen, Kamara, Mitro and Cav
Planned Improvements
Planned releases to freshen up the squad Ream, McDonald and Johnson
Planned acquisition of existing players including Kongolo, Odoi, Arter and Knockaert (~£30m).
Planned acquisition of new players at RB, LB, DM, RW and Backup-CF, which should cost around £70m.
Any player that the coach thinks is not up for fight is traded "like for like" at approximately the value sold at.
Loan players used on deadline day to cover any players not performing in pre-season or right player not available.
Final Squad
First XI: Rodak; New RB, New LB, Hector, Kongolo; New DM, Anguissa, Cairney; New RW, Mitro and Cav
Second XI: Betts; Christie, Bryan, Mawson, MLM; Arter, Onamah, Seri; Knockaert, Backup-CF and Reid
Thrid XI: Fabri, S.Sess, Odoi, Kamara and Stanfield
That starting 11 is a very good base. I think with the right additions we could become a mid table side.
At best that lineup is comparable to Newcastle which normally get around 1.2 points per game, but I think it will take a season before a new squad like that can get 1.2 points per game. With a new team some players won't adjust to the Premier League and some combinations of players won't work.
Realistically with £100m spent on new players, we should be able to build a squad that gets 0.9 points per game the first half of the season and 1.1 points per game second half of the season. Hopefully, 38 points is enough and 17th position gained, but if it isn't we have the core of a squad that can get promoted again.
Quote from: Statto on May 22, 2020, 01:38:40 PM
Although with that said, I think it will also depend on the covid-19 situation. I don't buy all this "the world has changed forever" bo11ocks but nonetheless, I can't see any clubs spending much in August if there remains any uncertainty as to whether/when next season will start
I think covid-19 will change the game dramatically for a while, as it will reduce crowds in the Championship. Making teams more reliant on TV money and owner investment, this will mean teams getting promoted will find it harder to stay up and easier to bounce up after a relegation. I think promoted teams will be investing more in players that not only keep them up, but also can win the championship if relegated. Covid-19 means promoted teams may look for more yo-yo players.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 26, 2020, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 22, 2020, 01:38:40 PM
Although with that said, I think it will also depend on the covid-19 situation. I don't buy all this "the world has changed forever" bo11ocks but nonetheless, I can't see any clubs spending much in August if there remains any uncertainty as to whether/when next season will start
I think covid-19 will change the game dramatically for a while, as it will reduce crowds in the Championship. Making teams more reliant on TV money and owner investment, this will mean teams getting promoted will find it harder to stay up and easier to bounce up after a relegation. I think promoted teams will be investing more in players that not only keep them up, but also can win the championship if relegated. Covid-19 means promoted teams may look for more yo-yo players.
Fair point RF.
However, go up or not I wouldn't look to retain Arter or Knocky.
Their transfer fees and wages would be too high for The Championship and they have both previously not been good enough to nail down a place in a (lower table) Premier Club.
Quote from: Jims Dentist on May 26, 2020, 11:22:28 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 26, 2020, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 22, 2020, 01:38:40 PM
Although with that said, I think it will also depend on the covid-19 situation. I don't buy all this "the world has changed forever" bo11ocks but nonetheless, I can't see any clubs spending much in August if there remains any uncertainty as to whether/when next season will start
I think covid-19 will change the game dramatically for a while, as it will reduce crowds in the Championship. Making teams more reliant on TV money and owner investment, this will mean teams getting promoted will find it harder to stay up and easier to bounce up after a relegation. I think promoted teams will be investing more in players that not only keep them up, but also can win the championship if relegated. Covid-19 means promoted teams may look for more yo-yo players.
Fair point RF. However, go up or not I wouldn't look to retain Arter or Knocky.
Their transfer fees and wages would be too high for The Championship and they have both previously not been good enough to nail down a place in a (lower table) Premier Club.
The ideal yo-yo player to sign should be still at his peak in two seasons' time that probably means being between 24 and 29 years old for the 2021/22 season. The contracts for Odoi, Ream, McDonald, Arter, Kebano, and Knockaert all run out before the 2021/22 season and we may need to refresh the squad with younger squad players by then.
