To Blackburn? back in the championship
Warning: There will be trouble ahead, with consequence of disgraceful return to Liverpool.
His last dilitry appearance in the League Cup for Liverpool resulted in him getting substituted and now this.
Everything I have seen suggests that this guy is a bad egg. He may mature but until he does so I wish him no well. Good luck Blackburn...
Have we actually had a fee for him yet?
An attitude problem? Not long ago he was on the edge of the first 11 now off to Blackburn? Another Ravel Morrison? :022:
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So have poor Liverpool received a loan fee before paying a single penny in compensation?
I always regret seeing our young players leave but in this case I am begining to think it may have been good for the club. Just wish we could get a few million from Liverpool.
I think it's crazy how a player can be loaned out when in all honesty hes not been paid for.
Won't last the season there Mowbry will not put up with him
He should not have been allowed to be loaned out as there is still the matter of compensation due to us. I hope the Club will take this to the FA & EPL.
Quote from: grandad on October 16, 2020, 10:08:18 PM
He should not have been allowed to be loaned out as there is still the matter of compensation due to us. I hope the Club will take this to the FA & EPL.
I'm not questioning your comment just wanted to be clear. Do you mean that you know that the rules don't allow such a loan or that in your view it's not fair that they can lend him out? If the former then I totally agree that the Club should pursue the matter.
Quote from: Twig on October 16, 2020, 10:59:56 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 16, 2020, 10:08:18 PM
He should not have been allowed to be loaned out as there is still the matter of compensation due to us. I hope the Club will take this to the FA & EPL.
I'm not questioning your comment just wanted to be clear. Do you mean that you know that the rules don't allow such a loan or that in your view it's not fair that they can lend him out? If the former then I totally agree that the Club should pursue the matter.
I don´t know of any rules but even if he can be loaned out I feel it is grossly unfair if no compensation has been agreed. I would be even angrier if Blackburn paid a loan fee.
Quote from: grandad on October 16, 2020, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: Twig on October 16, 2020, 10:59:56 PM
Quote from: grandad on October 16, 2020, 10:08:18 PM
He should not have been allowed to be loaned out as there is still the matter of compensation due to us. I hope the Club will take this to the FA & EPL.
I'm not questioning your comment just wanted to be clear. Do you mean that you know that the rules don't allow such a loan or that in your view it's not fair that they can lend him out? If the former then I totally agree that the Club should pursue the matter.
I don´t know of any rules but even if he can be loaned out I feel it is grossly unfair if no compensation has been agreed. I would be even angrier if Blackburn paid a loan fee.
I'm pretty sure if it was the other way round and we were loaning, there would be more of a fuss.
Harvey Elliott's compensation will be so small one day it will be a punchline in a joke, developing new players costs clubs £5-10m per year and unless you get five players per year as good as Harvey Elliott you won't break even. No Academy can produce even one Harvey Elliot per year. The EFL Rules for compensation means investing in British Youth is a total waste of money.
"developing new players costs clubs £5-10m per year"
Those seem very high figures to me. Any publicly available source behind them?
We are pants at get the most monies for our 'nurtured' players, Dembele, Elliot etc. We should tie them down when they show promise, a bit like a release clause. There might be Rules saying you can't do this or do that. But the named would easily have returned £30m.
Not surprised he's been loaned out. Seems to spend all his time on Instagram showing off all the freebies he's been sent as a Liverpool player. That supply will dry up now!
There are rules about age and signing of contracts. Dembele had reached that point and refused to sign when he got the age where they have to commit, think it is 18. He didn't and went to a non English club the compensation is fixed. No doubt Celtic offered him a fat signing on fee.
Quote from: Bill2 on October 17, 2020, 09:36:43 AM
There are rules about age and signing of contracts. Dembele had reached that point and refused to sign when he got the age where they have to commit, think it is 18. He didn't and went to a non English club the compensation is fixed. No doubt Celtic offered him a fat signing on fee.
I think we got £500,000, not great, when the cost of getting him to that level was millions.
There needs to be a flat % selling on fee on top of compensation to ensure there is some protection.
I.e. we would get 10/20% of Moussa/Elliots first transfer away from their new club, % based on years spent with developing club or something. If we were to sell Stansfield I wouldn't begrudge Exeter getting their share.
Agree with sentiment above that there should be better incentives in place for clubs to develop local talent.
Your first team can bring financial success to your club by winning. Academies don't and there is no guaranteed way currently you can manage an Academy to run at break even, let alone a profit. What it does give you is an opportunity to develop talent. Not just on the field but off of it. Coaching staff, for instance. That move up through the ranks within the club.. If a club is going to release players because they feel player A won't improve then it's only fair that player B be allowed to run his contract down if he (or his agent) feels he'll do better at another club.
The only way I can see a club being rewarded for developing a player is the FA pay clubs a "reward" when young players reach a number of first team and national team appearances. Regardless of which club the player is at.
So as mentioned all clubs that had that player at whatever age are rewarded. It might make the difference between whether a club has an Academy or not.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 17, 2020, 08:20:26 AM
Harvey Elliott's compensation will be so small one day it will be a punchline in a joke, developing new players costs clubs £5-10m per year and unless you get five players per year as good as Harvey Elliott you won't break even. No Academy can produce even one Harvey Elliot per year. The EFL Rules for compensation means investing in British Youth is a total waste of money.
Interesting how high the cost is tbh. Where did this figure come from? Interested to see the breakdown for that, as given then Elliot therefore cost us ~7M a year to develop, I guess we need somewhere in the region of 10-15 million to break even on him?
Quote from: Logicalman on October 17, 2020, 05:48:36 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 17, 2020, 08:20:26 AM
Harvey Elliott's compensation will be so small one day it will be a punchline in a joke, developing new players costs clubs £5-10m per year and unless you get five players per year as good as Harvey Elliott you won't break even. No Academy can produce even one Harvey Elliot per year. The EFL Rules for compensation means investing in British Youth is a total waste of money.
Is that a per annum figure? It seems high given the infrastructure is already in place and we likely own the property. Not having a dig just interested
Interesting how high the cost is tbh. Where did this figure come from? Interested to see the breakdown for that, as given then Elliot therefore cost us ~7M a year to develop, I guess we need somewhere in the region of 10-15 million to break even on him?
I backed Forest at 5/2 to beat them.🤗
New manager syndrome,nearly always works.
Here's a good link for how some academy's are run and what the youth experience can be like.
https://playerscout.co.uk/football-academies/do-academy-players-get-paid/ (https://playerscout.co.uk/football-academies/do-academy-players-get-paid/)
Note the following quote regarding how many academy players make it t the pro leagues successfully:
"For all the boys joining a pro academy at 9 years old, 0.5% will make even a career out of football.
Thats the players already in a pro academy. Now if you take the 1.5 million youth players currently playing in England, only 180 will develop and play in the Premier League.
That is a 0.012% chance of making it.
Michael Calvin author of the book "No Hunger in Paradise: The Players. The Journey. The Dream," says this is about the same chance of being hit by a meteor. "
and the note about Klopp restricting all Academy players 17 years old in their first year of a pro contract to a cap of 40K per year, and yeah, Elliot get the mention.
