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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Beamer on July 24, 2021, 12:18:18 AM

Title: Where’s Tom
Post by: Beamer on July 24, 2021, 12:18:18 AM
Looked at the latest training video, didn’t see TC, have I missed something.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: WestSussexWhite on July 24, 2021, 07:15:00 AM
He only trains 2 or 3 times a week. Has done for 3 years due to his dodgy knees
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: JackHamlet90 on July 24, 2021, 07:38:58 AM
Cairney won’t be a main man this year but will play his part over a 46 game season
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: FulhamStu on July 24, 2021, 10:00:51 AM
Cairney won’t be a main man this year but will play his part over a 46 game season

So we will probably rotate Cairney/Seri/Onomah.

Grimes Reed and Frank will compete for the 2 x midfield behind the 10, if we sell Frank we are short in midfield.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: filham on July 24, 2021, 10:21:54 AM
I really don't buy the idea of Cairney just being part of a rotating midfield. Cairney is unigue and previously our game plan centered around him and it worked well. For Cairney to be just another player in a rotating midfield will not be so effective.

Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: WestSussexWhite on July 24, 2021, 10:24:51 AM
I really don't buy the idea of Cairney just being part of a rotating midfield. Cairney is unigue and previously our game plan centered around him and it worked well. For Cairney to be just another player in a rotating midfield will not be so effective.

The reason TC will need to be a rotating midfielder is because of his knees. I very much doubt he’ll be able to play more than 35 games
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: FulhamStu on July 24, 2021, 10:25:21 AM
I really don't buy the idea of Cairney just being part of a rotating midfield. Cairney is unigue and previously our game plan centered around him and it worked well. For Cairney to be just another player in a rotating midfield will not be so effective.



I say he will be rotated because his knees are breaking down.  WSW says he only trains 3 times a week so with a 46 game league season plus cups, I think Tom will benefit from only playing once a week, and he may not be able to do even that.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: jarv on July 24, 2021, 11:35:10 AM
I am a big fan of TC, like his style and second to none in ball retention and finding a key pass. The team will miss a lot if he is coming to an end.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Whitestone on July 24, 2021, 12:10:17 PM
Seriously, does anyone really have first hand knowledge about Tom’s knees. Sounds like conjecture to me. There were rumours floating around at the end of last season that Tom was fit for the last few games but Parker chose not to select him. Make of that what you will. What is factual is that Tom played 39 times in the 19/20 Championship season so assuming he is fit I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be an integral part of our team this coming season. I certainly hope so because he is a special player in the Championship.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: filham on July 24, 2021, 12:43:17 PM
We really need to get a good midfield settled in and performing as a unit as soon as ever possible if we are to be a Championship promotion contender.

Seems to me that Tom's knee is critical to our success, maybe we are now considering holding on to Seri who could possibly step in to take over Tom's role from time to time.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: H4usuallysitting on July 24, 2021, 12:51:10 PM
He's going to be our new Murphy, deeper role
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Statto on July 24, 2021, 08:57:51 PM
Seriously, does anyone really have first hand knowledge about Tom’s knees. Sounds like conjecture to me. There were rumours floating around at the end of last season that Tom was fit for the last few games but Parker chose not to select him. Make of that what you will. What is factual is that Tom played 39 times in the 19/20 Championship season so assuming he is fit I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be an integral part of our team this coming season. I certainly hope so because he is a special player in the Championship.

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: WestSussexWhite on July 24, 2021, 09:24:33 PM
Seriously, does anyone really have first hand knowledge about Tom’s knees. Sounds like conjecture to me. There were rumours floating around at the end of last season that Tom was fit for the last few games but Parker chose not to select him. Make of that what you will. What is factual is that Tom played 39 times in the 19/20 Championship season so assuming he is fit I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be an integral part of our team this coming season. I certainly hope so because he is a special player in the Championship.

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?

The only reason TC can play that many games is because of his training schedule. He has only trained for 3 days week since our first prem season back.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Texas White on July 24, 2021, 09:51:24 PM
Sheffield….. ?
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: RufusBrevettatemyhamster on July 25, 2021, 05:42:57 PM
Tom needs to be sold. He isn’t prem quality and is past it now after such a long lay off. Cash in on him and get someone more reliable.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: WestSussexWhite on July 25, 2021, 06:01:14 PM
Tom needs to be sold. He isn’t prem quality and is past it now after such a long lay off. Cash in on him and get someone more reliable.

Who’s gonna sign him on the money he’s on. And I very much doubt he’ll pass a medical anywhere else
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: blingo on July 25, 2021, 06:15:57 PM
Tom needs to be sold. He isn’t prem quality and is past it now after such a long lay off. Cash in on him and get someone more reliable.

Who’s gonna sign him on the money he’s on. And I very much doubt he’ll pass a medical anywhere else

Says it all Mr WSW
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Somerset Fulham on July 25, 2021, 06:25:11 PM



Says it all Mr WSW

I'm not sure I follow?
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Twig on July 25, 2021, 08:59:25 PM
Seriously, does anyone really have first hand knowledge about Tom’s knees. Sounds like conjecture to me. There were rumours floating around at the end of last season that Tom was fit for the last few games but Parker chose not to select him. Make of that what you will. What is factual is that Tom played 39 times in the 19/20 Championship season so assuming he is fit I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be an integral part of our team this coming season. I certainly hope so because he is a special player in the Championship.

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?

The only reason TC can play that many games is because of his training schedule. He has only trained for 3 days week since our first prem season back.

Can I ask how you know that please?
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: WestSussexWhite on July 25, 2021, 10:14:43 PM
Seriously, does anyone really have first hand knowledge about Tom’s knees. Sounds like conjecture to me. There were rumours floating around at the end of last season that Tom was fit for the last few games but Parker chose not to select him. Make of that what you will. What is factual is that Tom played 39 times in the 19/20 Championship season so assuming he is fit I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be an integral part of our team this coming season. I certainly hope so because he is a special player in the Championship.

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?

The only reason TC can play that many games is because of his training schedule. He has only trained for 3 days week since our first prem season back.

Can I ask how you know that please?

I’ve got friends who work at Fulham, although this has been publicly reported too
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Whitestone on July 25, 2021, 10:36:26 PM
Seriously, does anyone really have first hand knowledge about Tom’s knees. Sounds like conjecture to me. There were rumours floating around at the end of last season that Tom was fit for the last few games but Parker chose not to select him. Make of that what you will. What is factual is that Tom played 39 times in the 19/20 Championship season so assuming he is fit I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be an integral part of our team this coming season. I certainly hope so because he is a special player in the Championship.

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?

The only reason TC can play that many games is because of his training schedule. He has only trained for 3 days week since our first prem season back.

Can I ask how you know that please?

I’ve got friends who work at Fulham, although this has been publicly reported too

Appreciate you have your contacts but I’m not aware of any reports in the media. Where has it been reported ?
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: WestSussexWhite on July 25, 2021, 11:15:11 PM
Seriously, does anyone really have first hand knowledge about Tom’s knees. Sounds like conjecture to me. There were rumours floating around at the end of last season that Tom was fit for the last few games but Parker chose not to select him. Make of that what you will. What is factual is that Tom played 39 times in the 19/20 Championship season so assuming he is fit I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be an integral part of our team this coming season. I certainly hope so because he is a special player in the Championship.

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?

The only reason TC can play that many games is because of his training schedule. He has only trained for 3 days week since our first prem season back.

Can I ask how you know that please?

I’ve got friends who work at Fulham, although this has been publicly reported too

Appreciate you have your contacts but I’m not aware of any reports in the media. Where has it been reported ?

I believe it was mentioned in a mail article last year after our promotion, however, I don’t have the link
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Neutral Zone Ultra on July 25, 2021, 11:28:55 PM
He's going to be our new Murphy, deeper role
Not convinced of the value of this, if you play Tom he has to be in the number 10 role. If that means he plays fewer games as a result then so be it, as he would likely have more influence in the long run.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: BarryP on July 25, 2021, 11:30:46 PM
Seriously, does anyone really have first hand knowledge about Tom’s knees. Sounds like conjecture to me. There were rumours floating around at the end of last season that Tom was fit for the last few games but Parker chose not to select him. Make of that what you will. What is factual is that Tom played 39 times in the 19/20 Championship season so assuming he is fit I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be an integral part of our team this coming season. I certainly hope so because he is a special player in the Championship.

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?

The only reason TC can play that many games is because of his training schedule. He has only trained for 3 days week since our first prem season back.

Can I ask how you know that please?

I’ve got friends who work at Fulham, although this has been publicly reported too

Appreciate you have your contacts but I’m not aware of any reports in the media. Where has it been reported ?

Here’s one source with multiple timeline reports

https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/tom-cairney-player
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: WestSussexWhite on July 25, 2021, 11:39:18 PM
He's going to be our new Murphy, deeper role
Not convinced of the value of this, if you play Tom he has to be in the number 10 role. If that means he plays fewer games as a result then so be it, as he would likely have more influence in the long run.

Grimes will be the deeper Murphy type role
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Neutral Zone Ultra on July 25, 2021, 11:40:18 PM
He's going to be our new Murphy, deeper role
Not convinced of the value of this, if you play Tom he has to be in the number 10 role. If that means he plays fewer games as a result then so be it, as he would likely have more influence in the long run.

Grimes will be the deeper Murphy type role
Good, I think that’s the better outcome.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: BarryP on July 25, 2021, 11:55:16 PM

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?

I hope last year was an anomaly but comparing Tom’s injury record to Reed’s last season is inaccurate. Tom only played 759 minutes, fewer than Josh Maja, and didn’t make an appearance after December while Reed played 2,247 minutes. It is fair to say Reed had his fair share of knocks throughout the season but nothing comparable to Tom’s troubles last year. Fingers crossed that we see the Tom of old but knees are tricky old things.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Statto on July 26, 2021, 12:56:52 AM

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?

I hope last year was an anomaly but comparing Tom’s injury record to Reed’s last season is inaccurate. Tom only played 759 minutes, fewer than Josh Maja, and didn’t make an appearance after December while Reed played 2,247 minutes. It is fair to say Reed had his fair share of knocks throughout the season but nothing comparable to Tom’s troubles last year. Fingers crossed that we see the Tom of old but knees are tricky old things.

I said "the last couple of years". Look at the numbers over that period.

Cairney 4,384 minutes
Reed 4,473 minutes
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: BarryP on July 26, 2021, 05:49:56 AM
Statto I think you missed the point of my post. There are two scenarios:

1. The number of minutes Tom was able to play last year was an anomaly and he doesn’t have dodgy knees. If that is true you are absolutely right and we can look forward to watching Tom a lot this year.

2. The number of minutes Tom was able to play last year was not an anomaly and he does have dodgy knees because he sustained a career altering injury.

If something happened to Tom that altered his playing career last season it would be unfortunate but it happens to professional athletes. I certainly hope it didn’t and all is well with Tom but missing half a season with multiple push backs on return dates is not encouraging.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: RaySmith on July 26, 2021, 06:54:14 AM
Just a thought, don't know if it has any truth, but Tom began to play a bit deeper, maybe from the last Champ season, and make more tackles, though he wasn't that suited to it, and gave a way  quite a few free kicks.
Did this  exacerbate the weakness of  already a bit dodgy knees.

Hard tackling, which he is very good at, and general  giving his his all and being involved in  everything, are main features of Reed's game too - things we love him for and have made him so important to the team.

I also noticed that Kongolo got long term inured twice after sliding in for a last ditch tackle.

If this all coincidence.

Well, we  want/expect players to give their all, and football is a tough game  on the knees, with all the  twists and turns, and sudden bursts of speed, and some will always  be more susceptible to injury than others through their physiology.

I certainly am not arguing against tackling - i decry the way that it seems to be outlawed in the game today, with every tackle, and often the most minor physical contact being given as a foul, but just a thought re these players and injury.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Whitestone on July 26, 2021, 07:17:43 AM
Seriously, does anyone really have first hand knowledge about Tom’s knees. Sounds like conjecture to me. There were rumours floating around at the end of last season that Tom was fit for the last few games but Parker chose not to select him. Make of that what you will. What is factual is that Tom played 39 times in the 19/20 Championship season so assuming he is fit I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be an integral part of our team this coming season. I certainly hope so because he is a special player in the Championship.

Agreed. The claim he only trains 2-3 times per week was on Twitter earlier and I think is just another one of those rumours that some becomes received wisdom. Just said on another thread, his availability/injury record over the last couple of years is about the same as Reed's, another player who will never play 40-odd games, so does he also have "dodgy knees" that need to be protected through limited training?

The only reason TC can play that many games is because of his training schedule. He has only trained for 3 days week since our first prem season back.

Can I ask how you know that please?

I’ve got friends who work at Fulham, although this has been publicly reported too

Appreciate you have your contacts but I’m not aware of any reports in the media. Where has it been reported ?

Here’s one source with multiple timeline reports

https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/tom-cairney-player

Thanks for this but it doesn’t cover the issue raised. I’m not doubting that TC has a long standing knee issue. I’m querying the claim that he only trains 3 times a week which has not been substantiated by a reputable source.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: WestSussexWhite on July 26, 2021, 07:18:14 AM
Statto I think you missed the point of my post. There are two scenarios:

1. The number of minutes Tom was able to play last year was an anomaly and he doesn’t have dodgy knees. If that is true you are absolutely right and we can look forward to watching Tom a lot this year.

2. The number of minutes Tom was able to play last year was not an anomaly and he does have dodgy knees because he sustained a career altering injury.

If something happened to Tom that altered his playing career last season it would be unfortunate but it happens to professional athletes. I certainly hope it didn’t and all is well with Tom but missing half a season with multiple push backs on return dates is not encouraging.

Tom has been playing with that knee Injury for 2 years, he decided to stop playing for 6 months to see if he could cure it, but he still has flare ups, hence why he is still only training 2 or 3 times a week
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: JEEVES on July 26, 2021, 08:47:32 AM
He plays when we're in the Championship. Both times we've been in the premier league he's hardly played at all.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Neutral Zone Ultra on July 26, 2021, 09:26:55 AM
He plays when we're in the Championship. Both times we've been in the premier league he's hardly played at all.
Not sure that was the case in 18/19, seem to recall he played more often than not
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: Carborundum on July 26, 2021, 09:45:46 AM
Hope he makes a strong recovery.  The only thing I feel with any certainty is that an objectively run football club would have avoided offering him a new long term contract given prior history of knee problems.  If part of the art of transfer dealings is to sell players before their joints give out, we just haven’t done that with Tom Cairney.

Of course he has a lot of qualities that can turn matches.  He may yet do that again.  He’s with us until 2024. 
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: FulhamStu on July 26, 2021, 10:04:54 AM
Tom himself has talked in interviews about how frustrated he has been with his knee issues and how they can’t work out what is causing the pain.  He has had injection and seen various specialists but was still having issues.  The fact he knows he has this problem is likely to impact his on field performance as he will be protecting himself.  Will be extremely interesting to see if he lines up on Saturday and if he is made captain again. There will also be strong competition in midfield if we sign Grimes.  We currently have Tom, Frank, Reed, Onomah, Carvalho, BDR, Seri, and add in Grimes fighting for 3 places in the team.  Maybe if Slav want Tom that badly, his knees are never going to fully recover and we can get some decent money, now would be a reasonable time to let him go.   A interesting few weeks ahead.
Title: Re: Where’s Tom
Post by: JEEVES on July 26, 2021, 11:16:02 AM
He plays when we're in the Championship. Both times we've been in the premier league he's hardly played at all.
Not sure that was the case in 18/19, seem to recall he played more often than not

Just had a look. He played way more than I thought he did to be fair.