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No instant fixes or positional changes are gong to fix the issues we have ...

Started by colinwhite, October 04, 2021, 10:37:50 AM

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colinwhite

I like Marco Silva and I am glad he is our head coach. His predisessor tried to make us solid as a team with very much  of a dont lose approach. The mentality and emphasisis last season (and even the one before )was on press and defensive organisation.
That has changed and our approach is now to be in attacking mindset ,get at teams and score goals. The balance between these 2 approaches may not be as easy to reach as many seem to think. To me its not a question of changing the GK (although i wouldnt have too much against that ) or swapping in other players here or there.
At the moment the thing I worry most about in our team is a lack of leadership. Players who get a grip of games. Tim ream has been excellent this year but his facial expression after the give away first goal against Coventry, shocked me quite frankly. It was a poor pass from gazzinga which he managed to control and Onomah then proceeded to get in his way and then not get out of it. All 3 players played their part in what was a ridiculous ,farcical goal to concede. What im wondering is why Ream didnt launch both the ball and Onamah into touch despite the mix up, and why he didnt seriously bollock either gazzinnega or On omah , but simply politely carried on the game .

Im not blaming Ream as such but his body language illustrated our downcome in the outing to Coventry on saturday. Show it matters ,show you care show your angry as hell,and then move on. At the moment we look a bit of a fareweather team ; we are great when we are in front but carry on in the same way when going behind. This for me is the main isssue facing Silva . The players  need to hurt more ,get angry more,and show an attacking intent and guts if we go behind . The players need. to stop hiding and stand up and be counted.

toshes mate

Marco Silva's face from the third goal onwards was one of disbelief and, possibly, resignation but I guess the slanging matches, anger and retribution were saved for a more suitable time.  I certainly do not believe there is anything basically wrong with the team that needs putting right in the way you suggest.  However, I would remark upon something that happened under our former head coach that we were as a team vulnerable to conceding at the start of each half of football and towards the end of each half in close games.   We saw this against Millwall in the legendary 4-0 game when they could easily have got two or more goals and that makes me think that some of what you say may have a basis in reality but I am not sure what it is we lack and why it happens at crucial moments.  Adarabioyo cost us an unnecessary goal last home game and Onomah's ridiculous decision making on Saturday beggar's belief when he was otherwise having a reasonable game.

Perhaps there is a shortage of raw meat on the players diet sheets.     

colinwhite

Conceding a goal shouldnt sink the team . It has to lift the team even if it becomes more difficult if the opposition becomes more defensive.To be fair we did this against Swansea but at that point we were still in the lead2-1.


70sPimlico

I think there's a few square pegs in round holes in his system. I'm guessing we'll have a few out and a couple in come January.

Theres a few players that are absolutely fine with certain tactics but just don't seem to fit alongside their team-mates in this system. Unfortunately, my gut feeling is Onamah is one of these.

RaySmith

It's an understandable emotional response to say the players need more fighting spirit, that they went down all too easily and didn't care enough, after conceding two soft goals, when  we were in front, and  the opposition didn't seem  likely to get back in the game.


However, I'm not sure that it was the case, that our players needed more fighting spirit,  though they obviously lacked something, mental fortitude and calm heads, and not panicking, maybe,  as the opposition came at us with renewed confidence  and  the crowd behind them, and we found it hard to withstand the onslaught.

But I'm sure if you spoke the players afterwards, they were gutted.

As Colin said, we seem  great when we get a couple of goals in front,  with our fluid attacking play, and that helps us cope if the  opposition  come back at us, and  even get a goal.

But on Saturday, our luck was out, and once we'd conceded  those two goals, one through a keeper error, the other a ref error, having only scored one  own goal ourselves, though Mitro   caused the defender's error, we looked bereft.

But it's still early days with this team and manager, and there are bound to be ups and downs along the way, but we have shown what we can do, with some great performances, but defending obviously needs to be worked on, and  coming back after going behind in a game.

The Rational Fan

Quote from: 70sPimlico on October 05, 2021, 07:34:24 AM
I think there's a few square pegs in round holes in his system. I'm guessing we'll have a few out and a couple in come January.

Theres a few players that are absolutely fine with certain tactics but just don't seem to fit alongside their team-mates in this system. Unfortunately, my gut feeling is Onamah is one of these.

Statistically using whoscored, Onamah's performance in August was awesome (one of the best months of his career), September was poor (but not terrible) and October so far has been absolutely diabolical.

I think from that run of form selling him is stupid, giving him a mini holiday during the international break or letting him play in the under 23 until he regains his confidence seems to make more sense. Besides after the last game, we won't get a great price anyway.

As for being a square peg in a round hole, Onamah's performance was a shocker but i think at his best he can work well.


cookieg

I'm not sure about getting angry but we didn't have anyone to calm the situation down and bring some composure back. It is about leadership but the right sort of leadership at the right time. We do seem to be lacking that person.

Craven Mad

This is the same team that ran riot in the first few weeks. I'm sure we'll sort out the mindset issues soon enough.

I'd rather be winning consistently, but this league's a lot more exciting for the ups and downs. Wonderfully unpredictable.

LittleErn

Quote from: Craven Mad on October 05, 2021, 10:20:08 AM
This is the same team that ran riot in the first few weeks. I'm sure we'll sort out the mindset issues soon enough.

I'd rather be winning consistently, but this league's a lot more exciting for the ups and downs. Wonderfully unpredictable.

Are you sure it's the same team? Tete, Carvalhio, and Anguissa were in the team then.


rebel

Quote from: colinwhite on October 04, 2021, 10:37:50 AM
I like Marco Silva and I am glad he is our head coach. His predisessor tried to make us solid as a team with very much  of a dont lose approach. The mentality and emphasisis last season (and even the one before )was on press and defensive organisation.
That has changed and our approach is now to be in attacking mindset ,get at teams and score goals. The balance between these 2 approaches may not be as easy to reach as many seem to think. To me its not a question of changing the GK (although i wouldnt have too much against that ) or swapping in other players here or there.
At the moment the thing I worry most about in our team is a lack of leadership. Players who get a grip of games. Tim ream has been excellent this year but his facial expression after the give away first goal against Coventry, shocked me quite frankly. It was a poor pass from gazzinga which he managed to control and Onomah then proceeded to get in his way and then not get out of it. All 3 players played their part in what was a ridiculous ,farcical goal to concede. What im wondering is why Ream didnt launch both the ball and Onamah into touch despite the mix up, and why he didnt seriously bollock either gazzinnega or On omah , but simply politely carried on the game .

Im not blaming Ream as such but his body language illustrated our downcome in the outing to Coventry on saturday. Show it matters ,show you care show your angry as hell,and then move on. At the moment we look a bit of a fareweather team ; we are great when we are in front but carry on in the same way when going behind. This for me is the main isssue facing Silva . The players  need to hurt more ,get angry more,and show an attacking intent and guts if we go behind . The players need. to stop hiding and stand up and be counted.

Onomah was 'all over the place' on Saturday, not in a good way. Way off the pace. He had a really good match against Leeds, but his performances are erratic.

richnj

In some ways, I have to think that Coventry 'got our number'.  They came out and harassed our players, and were able to shake them.

In the games we have dominated, we have come out and played almost like a Premiere League side.  Controlling, some swagger, low number of mental errors (and the resulting panic poor passes).

Otherwise, when playing against a side that is playing distinctly Championship (getting stuck in, hard tackles, etc) seems to get us unsettled.  Frustration and panic sets in and gets us off our game.  We can't pull off the simple one-touch passing, begin to try and force the plays, and lose overall composure.  Mentally, it seems if the opposing side shows 'respect', the players play to that confidence.. otherwise, they don't seem to be able to get themselves together to demand the respect and unsettled the opposition.

colinwhite

Quote from: richnj on October 05, 2021, 07:50:55 PM
In some ways, I have to think that Coventry 'got our number'.  They came out and harassed our players, and were able to shake them.

In the games we have dominated, we have come out and played almost like a Premiere League side.  Controlling, some swagger, low number of mental errors (and the resulting panic poor passes).

Otherwise, when playing against a side that is playing distinctly Championship (getting stuck in, hard tackles, etc) seems to get us unsettled.  Frustration and panic sets in and gets us off our game.  We can't pull off the simple one-touch passing, begin to try and force the plays, and lose overall composure.  Mentally, it seems if the opposing side shows 'respect', the players play to that confidence.. otherwise, they don't seem to be able to get themselves together to demand the respect and unsettled the opposition.

agree with you and of course the conditions didnt help us. it was nt the same for both teams as we were trying to play different way to them. Kebano and Harrison Reed as well as decadova reid and Wilson all looked uncomfortable recieving the ball and did bottle it a bit when it came to doing anything positive.


The Rational Fan

"Eleven players had a bad game" may be the simplest and correct reason for why we lost.

Woolly Mammoth

Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 07, 2021, 02:20:02 AM
"Eleven players had a bad game" may be the simplest and correct reason for why we lost.

But it isn't that simple, it is the way we lost that is the worrying part.
There are different ways you can lose and that was not our finest hour and the manager also has to take responsibility. We do not have a stand out leader on the field of play amongst the regular starters, we have very little physical presence and currently not enough characters who can respond to adversity, in other words a soft underbelly.
So to say it it is simply that all eleven players had a bad game is defeatist talk and a poor excuse for deciding not to compete.
Then what is stopping them going out and capitulating again from a winning position.
Because no competitor should drop his head because of a defensive cock up and a penalty that never was with 35 minutes to play and only one goal shy of a result.

.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

colinwhite

Agree, we didnt respond and quite  a few of the team bottled it,including the likes of harrison reed and decadova reid who always fight even if they are not playing well.Too many players didnt want the ball for my Liking.